All new Honda Fit hybrid
 

All new Honda Fit hybrid is out in Japan. Certification shows that it should be slightly more efficient at 53 mpgUS than the current US champ, the stripped Prius C at 51 despite being bigger and better equipped. .
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Honda Worldwide | September 5, 2013 "Honda to Release all-New Fit and Fit Hybrid in Japan"

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1383326302

Toyota got too accomodated in the hybrids game, now it's time for them to be surpassed by the opponents. But if someday I'd have to buy a hybrid, I'd sell my soul to the devil for it to be a Peugeot 508 Hybrid4...

The Honda site has terrible upload performance of the video. Here is a better version on you tube.
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http://youtu.be/tKfabuubtsg
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Honda really needs a Prius contender. Better fuel economy than a Prius, and in a more attractive package! Current Honda hybrid sales numbers are pretty dismal compared to the Prius family, or even the Ford Cmax.

BRAND/COMPANY YTD2013
Ford Motor Co.
Ford C-Max Hybrid 23,960

Toyota Motor Co.
Toyota Prius Liftback 125,490
Toyota Prius C 36,168
Toyota Prius V 30,652
Toyota Prius Plug-in 10,069
Toyota Prius (total) 202,379


American Honda
Honda Civic Hybrid 5,976
Honda CRZ 3,871
Honda Insight 3,982
Honda Fit EV 495
Honda Accord Hybrid 23
Honda Accord PHEV 420
Acura ILX Hybrid 1,373
AMERICAN HONDA TOTAL16,146

I was really impressed with the Prius C, but at twice what I paid for my Fiesta with my lifetime average of 46 MPG, I think the Fiesta will just be my car for the forseeable future. 21k miles now 3 years after it was made (11/2010). Haven't had to do a single repair once we plugged in the accent lighting, which may not have been connected when it was built.

I hope Honda gets their act together with the Fit hybrid.

regards
Mech

Cool technology, but I think they took a step back in the style department.

Interesting technique of "using" an unselected gear to drive the motor/generator while the driven wheels use the selected gear of the dual-clutch transmission...sneaky!

Actually this role is supposed to be on the Insight...

Why, they're not spectacular ...

Overview: Peugeot - 508 - Spritmonitor.de

Honda's issue is that their cars are way too sensible.

This sort of vehicle would fit most owners' real - rather than perceived - transport needs.

Style is very subjective, I'll admit, but I just wouldn't be happy driving around in a cheap looking bubble car. For me the last Fit was good looking, and was still the same 5 door hatchback configuration. The new version is not proportionally attractive at all in my opinion. The wheels/tires are too small for the size of the body, the front end is too stubby, and it just doesn't have an attractive stance.

And it doesn't help it's case that they borrowed the front end from the Odyssey!

http://www.hdwallpapersinn.com/wp-co...ight-view1.jpg
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1383326302

Smaller tyres mean cheaper tyres.
The off-balance body means lots of interior space.

All manufacturers want a common face on their cars these days ...
To the point that any Audi looks just like well, any other Audi.
They change everything and it still looks the same as before ...

You know, hybrids are not my cup of tea, and if I would ever HAVE to get one, I'd try to get the one which doesn't looks so obviously-hybrid as a Prius or an Insight. Well, maybe the Fit is gonna have this same feature...

I think the back end looks too much like an accent. It just doesn't look like the fit. However looks never sold the fit, the interior and driving dynamics did. It's just amazing how much stuff you can fit in one.

They look like hybrids, they look obviously aerodynamic. People have just come to associate the 2. Yes we have seen that cars can acheive the same levels without looking that way but what cost was that in R&D, the best one I can think of is the mercedes cla and without a hybrid system it is still way more expensive than both the insight and prius.

The CLA is targetted at a different segment than the Prius and the Insight. Anyway, there are some hybrids that are not really a benchmark on aerodynamics, such as the old Chevy Tahoe Hybrid :D

Yes but the tahoe hybrid was not an exericse is maximizing MPG like the prius and insight were. The prius had the goal of maximum MPG, so it's probable (and yes I'm making an assumption) that the direction was given to the engineers to make it as aerodynamic as possible hence it's form follows funtion look. With the insight the goal that Honda chose was almost as good MPG for much less cost, so again an assumption, but the engineers were probably given very little choice but to use a wedge shape.

So the popularity of those two cars causes people to say that's what a hybrid looks like when in fact they don't go hand in hand, ie the Tahoe or Escalade, or even the prius C/V.

Maybe you'll be happy with the next prius as interviews with Toyota employees on the project say they will be departing from the wedge shape to satisfy US tastes for a more normal looking car.

Actually the Prius nameplate got too extremely tied to the image of a girly car that maybe they should use another nameplate for their next generation of hybrids if they're gonna try to sell it to a more conservative public.

They don't need a new name.

http://socalautoblog.com/wp-content/...rius-truck.jpg

LOL

But it still looks like Elton John on steroids :D

Don't get your hopes up. This is the new prius spotted in garbage bag camo.

I think it's been proven that aero cars can be stylish, appealing, and conventional looking. The Prius just chooses to be neither of them. I will say though that the Prius C looks great from every angle.
2015 Toyota Prius Spy Shots
http://images.thecarconnection.com/l...00428800_l.jpg

I actually don't hate the Prius' design so badly, its aerodynamic profile is interesting, but I think I'd rather get another driveline layout into a Prius bodyshell. What I like in the Peugeot Hybrid4 system more than in any other hybrid setup is that the electric traction doesn't have any parasitic loss from a gearbox as the ICE has...

I'm no expert on the power split device but I'm pretty sure the large prius electric motor (MC2 I think it's refered to as) is directly linked to the driveline as there is no transmission even though they call it an eCVT it is closer in operation to a differential.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...UUqzdn32V02W6Q

Also the rumours are that the next prius will offer 4wd with a rear unit similar to the Highlander/RX hybrid with an electric only drive for sub 40km/hr speeds directly driving the rear wheels.

The Honda system (at least as I've looked into it on the accord) does look to be very efficient with the larger electric motor driving the wheels and even though they still say there is an "eCVT" it sounds like it really is a single speed unit.

If they would be honest enought to label it a single-speed unit they would probably not be able to charge more for it as they do badging it as "e-CVT" or whatever else...

It's a single speed as far as the larger electric drive motor is concerned but what the device does with the ICE is what customers expect a transmission to do, it allows the ICE to work over a range of RPM and a range of road speed so that at low speed and high power request the ICE will rev high and at high speed and low power requests the ICE will rev low.

It's not misleading because it is a device that transmits energy, so calling it a transmission is correct. It's just a way simpler version since there are so few moving parts. My first intrepretion of what eCVT meant when I got my first prius was "electronicly controlled typical CVT". I now interpret the e-CVT to mean a device that Transmits energy over a Constantly Varriable range. Some of the energy is electrical that passes from the small Motor Generator (MG) to the larger MG that drives the wheels and some of the time it is mechanical that ends up directly driving the wheels through a single speed.

However to get back on track to the original post with the fit it will use Honda integrated motor assist (IMA) which is different, like the insights, civic hybrid, old accord hybrid. They use just one electic motor before a traditional transmission. The fit hybrid will use an updated version of IMA which is now being refered to as a mild hybrid. A term that GM once used for it's cars and has since even dropped for e-assist as that was even more mild than IMA. In that case you are right, the electrical energy will pass through a traditional transmission.

The IMA is not actually what I would consider a "mild" hybrid, but anyway I'm not even sure if it would be available in my country...

The new Honda hybrid system is a full hybrid. The car can move without the engine turning.

Wayne at CleanMPG is currently testing the new Accord hybrid and getting better results than a Prius. He's doing some back-to-back comparisons and the Accord is ahead. Finally Honda did what they always could but backed away from.

Yes but Honda isn't stopping the use of the old IMA system, they are updating it and using it in smaller cars like the fit.

The new Honda Accord Hybrid is the real deal. I went on Honda.com and they want $29-30k for the car. That is absolutely outrageous. Why not sell it for $25-26k??

Honda said that the fit hybrid costs $3k more than the Honda Fit. So if they sell the regular one at $15.4 then the Honda Fit Hybrid would be $18.4k. Last time I checked the Prius C was $19k

Not sure what you mean but the new system with the electric motor out on the far end of a dual clutch transmission shaft is nothing like the earlier systems that had the motor right on the fly wheel of the engine.

It is interesting that the hybrid system in the Accord that is giving such good numbers is completely different than the new system for the Fit. The Accord system is very unique in that it has no changeable gear ratios. The engine is only clutched to the wheels after the car is already going fast enough to make it into the ICE torque range at which point it is engaged in parallel mode in what would be top gear if it had any others. It can never kick down when you floor it. The car just increases the output of the engine and electric motors to accelerate. Two of them. One can run as a generator in hybrid series mode so that the engine can run at it's optimum to recharge the batteries without being hooked to the wheels.
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http://www.caranddriver.com/features...stem-tech-dept
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That's what I meant by "updating it". Yes the placement of the electric motor is nothing like the earlier systems, but the way in which it uses just 1 electric motor and the fact that there are varrious gear ratios with a real transmission is.

The change from a traditional CVT belt system to a dual-clutch fixed ratio gearbox is quite radical, and the fact that the electric motor can use the gear shaft not currently used by the ICE as if it were a separate gearbox (in a sense it is) is pure brain candy.

I wish it were an update! I'd have it retrofitted in my Insight at the first chance :eek:

If this rumor is true, maybe the Fit Hybrid will replace the Insight?

2015 Honda Insight facing cancellation

Makes sense. It would be pretty much redundant to keep the current-generation Insight, or even to develop a newer generation, while there are hybrid versions of the Fit and the Civic which would cater basically to the same folks who would consider to get an Insight. And there is also the CR-Z which is conceptually closer to the original Insight.

It was Honda's decision not to bring the current Fit Hybrid to the states, and it seems the Insight gets the blame for that.
Both are sold here and I've driven them both, but all I can say is they will appeal to different people. The Insight is slightly more economical than the Fit because of its lower profile and better streamline and despite its slightly higher weight.

Honda did make changes to the rear bench to allow for more space in the back of the Insight, but a 6 footer still cannot sit in the middle. Also it has to be said; the European trim is more expensive, but also quite better. No flimsy armrests or bad seats here. It is so much better than all the other new cars I have looked at (all subcompacts, but they share the price range...)

I would hate to see the Insight go.
The new Fit Hybrid will have better economy than the old Insight, but a new Insight could easily beat that. Maybe Honda will give it a go if the Prius just beats the Fit.

As you can see from my fuel log, the Insights economy is not that bad, I do have my share of short trips, cold and windy weather and all at sea level so max air resistance.

Even if the Insight has a lower profile than the Fit, it's still kinda redundant in the current Honda lineup, because of the Civic which has a quite similar profile. But let's wait to see if Honda would really take it seriously on making a real contender for the Prius.

The Insight be redundant...
Not if you have a family and your wife decides what to take on holiday.
Remove all trunk paneling, fill the rear and passenger footwells, store luggage to the trunk lid and between the kids in the back and you can carry a cubic meter of stuff in the Insight (been there, done that!).
I carried a bed, whole.
I carried 9 feet planks with the trunk closed. On the highway.
None of that could be done with the current Fit, it just does not. (Fit).

But sadly Honda decided people do not need to listen to wives when taking holidays, move beds, carry long stuff... So be it.

Now I gotta have to agree with you. Loading a sedan with a smaller trunk opening such as a Civic is a PITA.

Allways glad to forward some Insight ;)