How about we start our own Eco-Decatholon or whatever its called.

[Nerys]

OK you know how the gas company (shell is it?) has this eco decatholon thing where people try to go as far as they can on a gallon of gasoline?

great right. Kids making these amazing cars that go thousands of miles on a gallon of gasoline.

One problem. While I commend the kids on PHENOMENAL RESULTS the results are largely useless and shell knows it. In fact I think they intentionally designed the event to appear as if they are "doing something" while in reality it does absolutely NOTHING.

because not one thing or hardly ANYTHING you can do to do well in this event can EVER actually be used in a normal consumer automobile.

-----------------------

What I want to do is show these scammers (shell NOT the participants) up for what they are. A sham.

I want to start out OWN ECO event where we have rules that ACTUALLY make sense.

What do you guys think?

the basic rules would be as follows (up for discussion of course this is just a concept)

average speed must be 45mph. Driving style must be COMPATIBLE with real life driving environments.

You must use a commercially available vehicle.

Modifications must be transparent overall to the driver. IE anything you do the average CONSUMER must be able to do with in reason and minimal training.

you are permitted to do things manually if you can reasonably describe an automated way of doing it (for example Engine off is fine and you don't have to build a machine to do it for you since we can reasonably estimate HOW this would be done automatically)

This prevents people without money from having issues. IE all they have to do is reasonably describe a complicated process.

I would prefer the use of modern cars but older cars are fine as long as the ideas or modifications used can be adapted to modern cars.

IE a way to increase the the efficiency of a carburator would not be a valid alteration or mod since we do not use carbs.

a mod that would not work on modern cars for safety or legal reasons would also not be valid.

remember the idea is REAL WORLD improvements IE things that can actually be applied to real world cars.

Lets have the kids "have at it" with that kind of an event. IE results no matter how small that could ACTUALLY WORK that could actually be used. Instead of motorized bicycles that while are amazing can NEVER actually help us (and shell knows this thats why they sponsor it they get the glory without actually having to DO anything)

What do you guys think? can we as a group do something like this? find sponsors actually get a REAL event working.

[Frank Lee]

The Shell Fuel Economy Ralleys were based on real production road cars for most of it's existence. The Magic Opel scam finally killed all pretense of these competition cars being able to be legit street cars.

I agree, it would be wonderful to have a legit street vehicle eco competition.

[gone-ot]

...you guys thinking of the 1936-1968 Mobil Oil Economy runs?

[Nerys]

Then lets do it. I don't have any money but I DO have time and will. This competition would not be able MPG it would be able % increase in MPG. ie make a car go father on the same fuel WITHOUT sacrificing function or major convenience.

lets DO IT. we first need warm bodies with working brains. I know your a smart fellow frank lee how about it? you in? Old Tele Man? You in? you willing to put some real effort and manpower into this? it starts with 2 people then 3 then 4 then 5.

It won't be bump free.

I want to make cars simpler. Cars longer lasting. Cars go further per gallon. lets just DO IT.

the only really hard part is getting sponsorship for the "rewards" to entice people to participate.

[mwebb]

there was one in "upstate" middle NY last summer
documented in these very forums

[gone-ot]

...as stated elsewhere, the petroleum companies have abdicated MPG numbers to the EPA.

...the problem is, however, the EPA only tests a single engine/transmission combination with NO accounting for driving technique...they're NOT trying for efficiency, just the "median" number for their "driving cycle."

...heck, anybody can achieve EPA numbers, just let the car idle with the a/c on.

...what we want is everybody achieving ECOMOD numbers!

[mwebb]

EPA does not use E10 for testing FE and what the EPA uses we may not even buy .

the citizen mortals are at a distinct disadvantage .

so
it's apples and oranges

[RobertSmalls]

Originally Posted by Old Tele man

...what we want is everybody achieving ECOMOD numbers!

Yes, but Nerys' proposal includes that we not make visible aeromods, and that we don't hypermile. Well, that's not going to generate fuel economy numbers that anyone will want to read about in the news. And with no eyeballs, there's no dollars.

The winner would be the vehicle that starts out with the most room for improvement. If there were a big purse and I really wanted to win the competition, I would start with a 6000lb+ vehicle with a V8, 4x4, and an EPA rating in the low teens. I'd strip all the comfort, luxury, and utility out of it. I'd drill holes in the frame to compensate for the lighter weight and the tow derating, and I'd replace the drivetrain with... oh, a FWD VW diesel power plant. Bam. 35mpg in a gutless one-passenger truck that can't tow or haul.

300% of EPA City rating when driven hard in traffic. What's my prize?

Nah, I'm going to stick to aeromodding a car that had very little room for improvement in the first place, and hypermiling when I feel like making big mpg numbers.

[gone-ot]

..."deca" means 10, I assume there'd be ten different events or catagories:

1) smallest
2) smaller
3) small
4) med-small
5) medium
6) med-big
7) bigger
8) biggest
9) humungous
10) HMMV

[Nerys]

NO absolutely not. If you can make aeromods that do not dramatically reduce function HAVE AT IT. My primary candidate idea is a removable collapsible boat tail. Something "plug and plug" regular consumer idiot proof.

If you can get a pickup truck or SUV to 35mpg that started at 15mpg you would DESERVE to win. Remember a consumer won't drive a car with one seat and no dash and a stripped interior.

I would be more impressed with a 15 to 20mpg pickup truck or suv than I would be with a 50mpg to 70mpg metro.

I don't know what its called so I just said what came to memory.

the point is we would be seeking ways to improve FE for REGULAR CARS IN REGULAR driving. not pulse and glide at 15mph with a bicycle and a 2cycle motor with a shell around it that has nothing and I mean NOTHING that can be used in a regular consumer car.