The American bus revival
 

The American bus revival - BBC News

I didn't realize the extent of British involvement in the bus companies. It probably applies to the Canadian arms of the brands too.

I visit friends in Toronto a couple of times a year (~350 km one way), and the last 2 trips I went by coach (double-decker MegaBus), so I'm apparently part of the bus revival.

New, clean double-decker buses, cheap fares, and available wifi. Before these new coaches, I had never gone by bus.

My rule of thumb is: I'll go by bus (or train) even if the ticket cost is 2x the fuel I would burn in the car, provided I can do a bit of work (wifi) en route.

I'll just add:

My biggest complaint about going by bus was the un-skilled, un-smooth driver on one of the trips: full binary pedal usage (gas full ON or brake full ON) in the city portions of the trip made train travel look darn appealing.

Trains are great until the god dang Duggars get on with 9 screaming kids that make you go hunt for a secluded corner somewhere to get some desperately needed sleep.

Fire up one of those green Dominican cigars you favor, Frank Lee, that'll send 'em away . . . oh, yeah, no smoking section.

...a giant, foul, green "gag-master" beans & cabbage & beer phart usually dispenses people to the 'other end' of the bus in no time!

I wish I could conjure up such a fart at will... it would be useful in many social situations!

...unfortunately, my wife tells me that I'm too able to do just that too easily (ha,ha).

...and, in two different classifications, too: (1) SBD's and (2) LSR's.

I have found train travel more pleasant than being crammed into an airplane. I have been on some decent buses too. Fuel for a train is supposedly 248 passenger miles per gallon. Amtrack runs on freight line track which can be a little rough. Buses may get up to 500 passenger miles per gallon but no dining car. Our 4 kids were pretty well behaved going from Buffalo to Fort Worth with a layover in Chicago. There is always Granpap's riddle about what's the grey stuff in bird dirt. It's bird dirt too. Just for show bring some in a pill bottle. ;)

If it's crammed full.
Trains weigh 100s of tons, and take a lot of energy to get moving.
To make things worse, they even go 120 or 160 kph here, despite the relatively short distances.

Again, only when full.
And usually, they ain't full.


A local supplier has a contract to build 300 US busses, but will build a second construction plant in Macedonia to assemble them, rather than doing so locally.

One reason I build fairings for upright bikes more than recumbants is that the buses and trains here can accomodate the upright bikes more readily. A local bus may have an external bike rack and the double level trains we rode looked like you could put a bike in lower level storage easily. The other big reason is that I can't get a long wheelbase machine down my cellar stairs to my work shop.
Even a bus getting 10 mpg with 15 passengers would get 150 pmpg and a family of 6 in the Dodge minivan getting 22 mpg yields 132 pmpg. Four people in my '95 Geo Prizm getting 33 mpg would be 132 pmpg. We take this into consideration when choosing which means of transportation to use based on cost per mile.

Trains and buses should be placed in the museum where they belong, right next to taxi cabs.

Don't forget the bicycles!

The local bus revival - totally pushed by the gov't, and a safe haven for political friends needing top jobs - is actually working against the efficiency of everyone else's means of transport.

It started with cutting down traffic lanes in order to have separate bus lanes.
The bus lanes are generally empty - and all too often the bus is too, BTW - while traffic on the remaining single lane is jammed up.

Next step was moving the bus stops from aside the road, smack into the traffic lanes - usually in both directions - effectively blocking the road for any other traffic, forcing everyone to stop at every bus stop, and leading to unsafe overtaking attempts to get away from behind the busses.
Very efficient !

Bus travelers merely pay 15% of the actual cost, the remaining 85% is gov't subsidies being paid for by the taxpayers, while for 85% of them - coincidentally - the bus doesn't provide a transport solution !
(busses only have a 14% share in commuting traffic, though everyone pays for them)

Busses are generally crammed full at peak times, giving uncomfortable and unpleasant commuting conditions, or near-empty off peak - yet they still run.

Binary throttle operation is standard for our bus drivers, leading to even more discomfort - and greatly reducing their efficiency at transporting people.

I'll pass on this revival.

As one guy said (and I agree), "Streetcars are a sign of civilzation".

Ever drive cross the USA in a hybrid? GE diesel locomotives are series hybrids. Trains can add cars and engines as needed. A mixed fleet of buses can be used to adapt to high vs low volume conditions; it is a simple operations research model. The point is that there are solutions if we break out of old modes of thinking. Would you ride a bike if you could go 25 mph without breaking a sweat, be protected from weather, dogs, and SUVs all for less than $1000 USD? Beats sitting in traffic idling your engine.

Bikes versus Mass Transit
 

Bicycles are actually pretty neat. They are there when you want them (as long as someone hasn't stolen them), they go where to want, and they are very economical.

That beats the heck out of any mass transit that has ever been invented. Mass transit has always been, and will always be, a non-starter.

Sadly for bikes, they are very inconvenient. :(

What makes them inconvenient?

They don't protect you from heat or cold. They are not comfortable for long trips. They take more energy than they are worth on business trips. There is no storage for the business professionals easel and presentation materials. It is difficult to keep things clean and dry on a trip with them. Etc..

You still use an easel. Bicycles are best for trips up to one hour in length. An electric bicycle would extend the effective range. The fairing system can keep one warm and dry. The dual mode capabilities of bicycles with cars, buses, or trains are available now in many areas; a maglev train would be no different. Rail companies still use light trucks with steel rail wheel adapters. Buses could be fitted as well. The real difficulty comes because rail lines are privately owned by freight haulers at present.

There is always more materials needed to be transported than can fit on a bicycle, and I am not sure if adding an air-conditioning system is a good idea. Without those the necessary storage and climate control, one is better off using an electric car because of convenience and function. A fairing at 20 degrees below zero is hardly going to keep on warm.

The US Interstate Hiway system was begun during Eisenhower's term as president. That was a national project, not private. The next step in that evolution is the creation of a national HiLoMag rail system for interstate travel. (It of course also solves the problem of extending the electric grid at the same time, killing two birds with one stone.)

Every single person interested in electric automobiles should become familiar with HiLoMag.

Winter gear and pedalling one's arse off works pretty well though, for shorter rides.

:D Right you are. For a very short ride. Provide one gets traction. Or not. ;)

I did read the booklet on the HiLoMag and the concept of a dual mode system is a proven one even though we have not applied magnetic levitation technology to intercity rail systems yet. The cost of building and maintaining a high speed rail or maglev versus the interstate highway system is the 64 Trillion dollar question. A mile of interstate may cost $1 million to build and will need to be repaved every 10 years. What are the costs of a maglev system or high speed rail? We are in an area where the I 86 interstate is nearing completion. There is a cargo rail line but the curves in the river valleys are too sharp for high speed passenger trains. Plans are for a high speed line from Albany to Buffalo NY but the operation speed and track costs are still being discussed. No government entity has the budget at present to construct a national passenger rail system. Even the Obama adminstration is optimistic in proposing 2000 miles of new rail track. I worked in the passenger rail industry for six years and see the potential for intermodal systems.

The light weight mountain bike is seeing increased use locally especially with nearby Ithaca incorporating bus service with bike racks to the top of the hills. I commuted with a bike on the bus between Elmira and Waverly for a year. Traction is not a problem with the various tires available including studded ice tires. Carrying cargo with a trailer is easily managed. My personal commuting range on a bike is 10F to 95F. Evaporation cooling is easy enough to arrange at 10 mph.

At -20F a battery is not going to be very efficient and some kind of heater is needed for an electric vehicle. I may yet build an electric car for transporting my family. More likely it will be a 3 cyl. diesel running on natural gas depending on costs.

The big question for electric vehicles is the generation and storage of power. In WNY we are seeing coal fired generators shut down and more wind farms going up. This supplements the hydroelectric from the Niagara river that goes to NYC. Our big environmental issue has been the acid rain caused by coal fired generators in the midwest.

The mag-lev topic is off topic for here. I only wanted to mention it to show a better way. I hope everyone forgives my going on about it.

To discuss it further, please see my topic elsewhere.

Mass transit should be dead to all of us.

The best and most inexpensive battery right now that will meet your needs is the Firefly, but it comes in a large group 31 size; good for cars by not bikes. Add the large capacitor as is used by AFS Trinity in their electric hybrid SUV, and you have rapid excelleration and fast recovery. Hard to top an electric hybrid for long distances today. 150 mpg on electric and 60-80 mpg combined.

The grid is the big storage medium and the battery is the small storage medium. Problem solved (and in current use daily).

The price of fuel is now high enough to make the extra cost of a hybrid car economical if you can afford a new vehicle. A homemade biodiesel/electric car is possible too. In NYS there is a special class for less than highway speed electric vehicles. Since we have a graying population locally, the demand for electric bikes and scooters is growing. A capacitor system for electric bikes is ideal for stop and go traffic.
Lead acid batteries are heavy and have to be replaced every five years on average. One way to extend the life is to reduce the sulfate build up in the bottom of the cells. I saw an article where a circulating pump flushed the bottom of each cell. The recycling of batteries involves handling the sulfuric acid as well as the lead alloy.
Where population density warrants, a good diesel/electric bus or trolley system can be very efficient and convenient. In Third World countries private cars are beyond the financial means of most people. Increasingly that is becoming the case here. We have a decent county wide bus system and regional carriers that run to major cities. The big snag right now is that the county systems are not well coordinated.

Actually the big grid electric system does not have a storage mechanism but a load balancing system. A hydroelectric system can store water and a coal fired generator can stock pile fuel.
An advantage of human power vehicles beyond low cost and small spatial dimensions is the contribution to human health by reducing obesity and depression.

Hybrid vehicles are always an economical alternative; even when petroleum was cheap.

As I previously mentioned the Firefly battery, which is carbon-foam/acid instead of lead/acid, I am confident that it is the way to go. It it wouldn't last for at least ten years I'd be very surprised. And no sulfation. Inexpensive batteries are no longer a pipe dream.

What people who promote mass transit just don't seem to understand is that I, like most Americans, want to drive my own vehicle. I want it to be cheap, non-polluting and efficient. Nobody wants mass transit.

Oh, I suppose there are those who wish to get down and dirty with the masses, but I choose not to suffer the filth, disease, smell, and risk of violence these inconvenient means of transporation bring us.

As I said before, mass transit methods will never, ever be convenient, and they need to be allowed to die a quick and non-lingering death. They hold back innovation toward the future and help make the poor beholden to the wealthy who own them. They are, and will remain, a pox upon our nation.

Y'all must not be from around here. The buses here are neither crowded nor unclean.
If you want to drive an electric car, fine. Just remember that reality cannot be created or destroyed by ordinary wishful thinking. Several years ago I did an economic study on the average annual cost comparison of owning a Honda Civic gas engine vs hybrid; the breakeven point came out at $3.36/US gal. Prices and costs change so the price differences may be more favorable for the hybrid now.
What I learned in auto parts sales over the years is you don't try to sell a Chevy part to a Ford owner. Once I had a customer ask for a spark plug for his toilet. I could have burst out laughing or threw him out. Instead I asked the appropriate questions and made a sale. He had a waterless toilet that burned waste with propane. Point being we each have legitimate needs that can vary. Much of culture is based on geography. Here natural gas is plentiful so we use it. The carbon dioxide is absorbed by trees and crops. Cities have different needs. I will look into Firefly batteries.

"No man is an island, entire of itself" someone once said. Any use of fossil fuels anywhere will affect me where I am, one way or another, sooner or later. It should just simply end now.

Perhaps you like mass transit, and that's fine. However, I look at it like spam e-mail. Some people actually don't mind receiving it. But, by the same token, they shouldn't mind not getting it, either.

I dare say that most people would be glad to travel in their nice safe personal electric vehicle. As I pointed out, there is absolutely no substitute for the convenience it offers, short of having loads of money for a chauffered limo.

The nice thing about electric vehicles is that there is no wishful thinking involved. They use off-the-shelf components and can be made to power any vehicle today. No pie-in-the-sky thinking is necessary.

The only thing required in our nation at this time is a willingness to make them available to the populace. Non-renewable energy sources are out; electricity is in. Buying any new vehicle that does not use electricity as its main motive force is simply being part of the problem and not part of the solution. There simply is no excuse for it.

As you probably heard, Ed Begley last year or so pointed out that his electric bill was less than $200 for the year, and that included all his driving of his electric vehicle as well.

Except for poor folks who can't afford to get a conversion done, there is no reason not to change now, and let mass transit and petroleum use die a well deserved death.

Since you are a resident of Gaia perhaps your objections to all fossil fuels are religious more than economic. Is there an electric car available that will carry six passengers 400 miles without recharging or burning carbon based fuel that costs less than $25,000 USD? For me that is one year's income so that makes me and my family "poor" by federal standards. The demographic for the educated poor is growing. Is a wood burning vehicle or biodiesel generating station morally acceptable? The problem then becomes how to generate enough electricty. How do we compare the ecological costs of hydroelectric transmission lines, solar cell production, wind turbines, or nuclear fission wastes?
What really bothers me is a mind set that refuses to clearly examine the risks and benefits of any solution that doesn't fit a personal world view. Do we have the moral or legal standing to tell an Inuit hunter not to shoot a polar bear or ride a snowmobile? Do we really expect Brazilian farmers not to clear land and burn brush for crops? Would I trade my gas car for an equivalent electric car? Sure I would. My wife's ancestors were owners of Pierce Arrow car company in Buffalo NY that made electric cars long ago. I have built and raced electric slot cars for decades. I have studied mechanical engineering, economics, and operations research enough to know that an all electric economy including transportation is going to take alot of work and capital. It may happen in my expected lifetime (30 years) and involves solutions we have yet to see. There needs to be tremendous improvements in conservation of energy. We in North America use far more (6x) than most other economies. Tailored solutions are more effective than a nationally mandated 'one best way' approach. We are seeing Siemans taking an integrated approach to monitoring and control of energy for urban buildings and transportation. There are off the shelf solutions for electric trains, buses, cars, and scooters now in urban settings. The harder solutions are for semi-rural and rural applications. The awd station wagon for a traveling nurse needs sufficient range; the farm tractors and harvestors need to operate for long hours at peak seasons.
I look for ways to reduce my transportation costs both in terms dollars and kwH. Here and now that means using the bus and bicycles more to reduce driving a car for local errands or commuting. I can use hypermiling and streamlining to double the fuel mileage on the cars I have now. Streamlining the bikes and trailer will extend the effective range of operation by 50%. Alternative ways of thinking are an important part of devising viable alternative technology. I will continue to lobby our state legislators to legalize electric bicycles and homebuilt mopeds that can be carried on external racks on clean diesel buses.

I think you're getting off the topic into another area entirely. The subject wasn't busses for local mass transit, but for city-city transport. Now quite aside from the fact that few personal electric vehicles have the range to do that, having to spend hours/days driving along a boring interstate is not my idea of convenient.

Switch the coaches to biodiesel/electric and then we have something worth considering. That is proven technology and available today.

Wind and solar are great and free. Nuclear fission requires a rail-gun setup to send the waste into the sun. ;) In that case it would be great. Or a breeder that does not create a waste problem is also a great idea. We're at the bleeding edge of that tech.

Current transportation systems between cities is too darn slow. :turtle: If we use a faster system, say 300 mph, then we can do the same for cars as for mass transit. Building the rails for one is like building the rails for the other. I'll take a private car any day. Hands-free on the rail. :thumbup:

There never is a need to worry about Kwh if the source is free as in sun and wind. :rolleyes: And home built vehicles of any type are legal in most locales.

Mass transit is dead. It just doesn't know it.

Loved the BART out in San Francisco and the bus system in Seattle- waaaay better than driving! :thumbup:

Definitely want to see more high speed rail (150+mph) to take the congestion out of the air traffic system for trips up to 1200 miles or eight hours of travel. It would be easier to roll on/roll off a flatcar with your personal vehicle than tote the extra steel wheels on a small car. This would minimize the problem of limited range for an all electric car. There was a train that used to do that between NY and Florida. Passengers could ride, sleep, and move about in the rail cars as it was a 1300 mile, three day trip. I don't see tours buses going hybrid any time soon since they operate mostly at constant highway speeds. Buses that make frequent stops may well adopt the hydraulic accumulator system that UPS is testing on its delivery vans. All buses need to be more streamlined. I expect to see more hybrid cars, light diesel trucks, and electric bicycles. Those under 25 yr and the elderly are particularly drawn to low speed (20 mph) electric bikes or scooters. Rail and bus companies, I imagine, are more inclined to take electric bikes onboard than gas powered ones for safety reasons.
Conserving energy is important even when using renewable sources. So far our tranportation systems have been based on convenience as much as cost. Now we are looking for more integrated systems. Regional rail lines with stops in the airport terminal itself as in Philadelphia eliminate going to a parking lot outside. People like choices and like to pass, so based on the psychology of drivers, single tracks for private vehicles may not be very popular. In contrast, trollies are popular where available. In rural areas putting a diesel/electric 15 seat van on rails may work well. Wind and solar may be free but there are costs to collecting it and distributing it. In urban or built up areas real estate is priced by the square foot; in the country it is priced by the acre. This a key cost in any transportation system.

Rails give me the willies. :eek:

If it wasn't for all of us non-users paying for the passenger train system thru our federal taxes, it would never run at all. :mad:

We must end the noise and danger of trains going thru our towns and cities. No more dangerous crossings and no more uneven pavement there.

The most important and number one choice people want will always be the choice to have a safe and secure ride to the exact location they desire at the exact time they desire. No mass transit will ever offer that at all. :rolleyes:

IMHO, it is time we move into the real twenty-first century with twenty-first century thinking.

^That ain't 21st century thinking.

I assumed ACEV was joking. I hope the joke's not on me:eek:

I know people who say the same thing about trains. Those same exact people also claim that they have a right to do/have certain things (more freeways, with more lanes, for example) because they pay for them through taxes. Is this hypocrisy, or is someone making them pay for trains but keeping them from using them?

Sorry, the humor was lost on me. Please explain. :confused: