Any 30 mpg vans you can recommend for camping?
 

Hello all,

I'm looking to put together a van that can be used for 1-2 people and used for camping. I'd really would like to put something together myself. So it would be gutted more than likely.

My main requirement is that it can get 30 mpg going ~65 mph. I don't need anything new and shiny. Just something dependable that has been taken care of.

Have a budget of 5-6k for the van itself.

Some advice on what to shoot for would be greatly appreciated. If any threads or groups I could "feed" off of would be great too.

Thanks,

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...02-1-29-33.png

23-window Type II. You'd never regret it. My panel van with 1600cc boxer with dual Solex 40 carbs and an extractor exhaust got 30mpg (at 55mph during break-in. Never went that slow again). Substitute a TDI four and you'd see ~40mpg.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...3-100-0891.jpg

Plan B: a Westfalia Vanagon.

The 2011 up Dodge and Chrysler would be close (30 mpg at 55, but probably more like 28 at 65), and there are already stripped cargo version under the Ram name. The 2011 up Honda with the 6 speed (only on Touring and above or standard as of 2014), would probably hit 30 mpg at 65, but it will set you back and then require gutting a nice interiored van. The 3.0 diesel vans will do pretty good but I bet wouldn't hit that 30 going that fast, especially if you also then spring for a high roof.

I think the 2011 up Grand Caravan C/V is you best bet. They sold those as cheap as $17,000 new, maybe less to big fleets like the Post Office.

Here is one with a rare factory tow package asking $5k. The tow package would be nice because you could also build an aerodynamic kitchen/extra gear trailer and just use the van for sleeping.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

@freebeard, yeah I'm passing on the VW route. I did do it a few years back. Got a '71 Westfalia with the German floor plan. It had a bench seat, 2 way frig, and could sleep 4 adults and two kids. The kids spot was over the front instrument council. I even had the tent that was a VW part. In great shape and man do I wish I had it today!

Oh yeah, I never got anything better than 20 mpg, with a 1600 dual port and a header installed.

@Hersbird, I'm a bit suspect that Dodge could get 30 mpg in their vans, regardless of the year. I never heard that there's diesel powered vans in the US, but I would like to learn about them.

I forgot to put up my budget, but I'm working with about 5-6k. Also I was kinda leaning towards a Toyota or Honda van. Pretty much something that had the interior worked over but mileage ain't bad and maintenance was done.

Honda Odyssey rated at whopping 28mpg on the highway.

My wife's SUV has the same 3.5l engine/trans in it...and gets worse gas mileage, despite being lighter. Would have expected both to do better, since the engine is only running at 1800rpm at 60mph. The trans is the only weak point. Well, that and the typical Honda interference engine/timing belt.

Don't know squat about newer ones. Toyota does a PHEV van, but they're newish and wont be had for 5-6k.

So.... You know whereof I speak.

I'd suggested a TDI (instead of Subaru) transplant for better mileage, but frankly today an EV conversion with a full-length roof rack full of solar panel would be best.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/member-f...9-p1010027.jpg
Never mind.

When I was a kid my dad had a great van/8seater that was getting 30 - 35 MPG all the time, and where the two rear seats could easily be folded into a double bed. It was a Nissan Serena C23 diesel, Japanese design, incredible slow but extremely reliable and versatile. They were sold in Asia, Europe and Australia, but never in the US I think. It's a shame because it would do well in the eco-modding community ... If import wasn't that difficult you would have something special over there!

https://autotalkz.com/img/main/m785.jpg

Cars older than 25 years are easier to import. They don't have to conform to emissions standards after they pass 25 years.

(I think) There is a requirement that any imported car must have documentation that the engine passes the requirements for that year. If the car was never sold in the U.S. it doesn't come with that certification automatically. You have to either get it from the manufacturer or get it certified yourself. Both a big hassle at least, if not impossible. Once they pass 25 years they don't have to adhere to this rule and you just have to ship it and fill out some paperwork. Again, I've never done it so this may not be 100% accurate.

The above may not work in Cali apcd areas. I had a squareback imported from Europe that I couldn't register because it had carbs instead of FI. NO amount of documentation, including the build sheet from VW would convince them the carbs were original.

AFAIK it was only for export, yet some sources claimed cargo versions of the Dodge Caravan had such option. AFAIK the only RAM van factory-fitted with a Diesel for the USDM was the ProMaster, yet it had the AMT.

I have a Freightliner 2500, Sprinter.
 

It is the smallest one they made at 118 inch wheel base and a short roof. At 62 mph, it can reach 30 mpg with it's 2.7 L diesel and 5 speed automatic transmission. Fuel efficiency plummets as you go faster. Vans are shaped like boxes.

My in laws have a Honda Odyssey with an engine that shuts off cylinders at low load. It can exceed 30 mpg, but not at 65. It seems to turn on all cylinders at about 60 on flat terrain.

The diesel vans would be the Sprinter either Mercedes or Dodge, the Transit has a diesel option, and the Promasters have a diesel option. There is also a full size GM van with the new 2.7 Duramax they put in the Colorado. All those Van's will be pricey.

As far as the 30 mpg Caravan, we have a 2011 Town and country we took on a vacation a few years back, I kept it to 55 mpg and ran a 250 mile each way up and back loop and got just a tad under 30 mpg hand calculated. That was in the mountains of Western Montana. We have LRR tires at 50 psi and about 85k miles on it, used the "eco" mode and just took it easy.

I think picking a target mpg is working backawards.

Start with "I want to do x,y and z". Then see how efficiently you can do that.

And as the original post seemed to talk of eco as in economy not ecology, spending thousands more to save what will amount to hundreds of dollars wouldn't be economical.
Van A driven 10,000 miles a year getting 30 mpg saves $360 a year at today's prices vs van B getting 20 mpg. You will save way more by getting a van with a kitchen and actually using it out on the road vs stopping at restaurants.

I do totally get wanting to get better mpg. We do this game all the time with our almost annual pilgrimage to Yellowstone park. Luckily we live pretty close, 300 miles or so each way. When we make a quick 3 night trip the math on bringing the camper starts to be tight. We used to be lucky to get 8 mpg and gas a over $3/gal so it cost $260 in gas and $90 for 3 nights at the campground. That is pushing the cost of 3 nights hotel in West Yellowstone and no stress towing. Now I can get 13 mpg, diesel is less, and we may downsize to a popup where we could get over 20 mpg. So camping is a no brainer, especially considering the better location than where the hotels are.

Someday when it's just my wife and I and I'm retired we will get a class B diesel van and go all over the US and Canada and Alaska.

Boat Tail Cargo Box.


....with wheelie bars.

I'm a big fan of mpg. But a camper of any sort is a lot of weight and space no matter which way you cut it, and space is what you're looking for. The 2011 and newer Dodge platform is a good one even without mods- get a curtain, block the side and rear windows, throw in a cot, cassette toilet and a chuck box, and you're in business.

Another option I'm leaving myself is to get a city van like the Ford Transit Connect or Ram ProMaster City, or Nissan NV200. Basically it's the smallest cargo vans on the road (US). These also are rated at 28-29 mpg on the highway.

Seems like a mini van or city van that is rated at ~28 mpg can do 30 mpg by pumping the tires up to rated max on the tires. If not 30, pretty dang close!

Oh yeah, I ran across this van that I just had to share;
69 Dodge Panel Van

Did you buy that yet?

The slant six has the intake and exhaust on the uphill side, on the downhill side IIRC an oil filter. That would be a good location for a GM E-Assist retrofit.

[QUOTE=User1;636044
Seems like a mini van or city van that is rated at ~28 mpg can do 30 mpg by pumping the tires up to rated max on the tires. If not 30, pretty dang close!
[/QUOTE]

Actually, every vehicle ever can outperform its EPA rating by adjusting the nut behind the wheel. Modding the vehicle helps, but the driver is where the real numbers happen.

These are a nice option compared to a Dodge/Chrysler soccer-mom minivan. With a smaller footprint yet not sacrificing useful space, and their powertrains are usually more efficient.

Ford have today announced an electric Transit, with three wheelbases and three roof heights. 115kW battery. Quoth DDG:
https://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/e-transit/2022/

I'm kinda impartial to the "city" version of these vans. Looks like they're passing up on doing an e-van on this size. Or the US won't get them? Kinda like we don't get diesel powered city vans either.

Blame it on the EPA regulations not being harmonized with Euro standards.

For those curious, the van sold for $12,656. I'm betting it'll be a pretty dependable van (considering) for the new owner.

Rabbit hole continues... the slant 6 is actually one of the best turbo candidates out there. Inline, offset to one side for room with intake and exhaust on the same side, very stout iron block and head, and pretty low compression.
Here's an add that was under $300 and pick up a bunch of MPG as a percentage.
https://www.allpar.com/threads/turbo...ost-1085223131

That would've fit under the hood of my Clark Cortez motorhome.

The 5th generation Dodge Caravan makes a good campervan for 1-2 people and will get 30 mpg on the highway @ 65 mph. My wife and I have rented one from Escape Campervans 4 times for a week each trip when we were visiting National parks in Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico. We averaged about 26-28 mpg in a mix of interstate, state highway and dirt roads. Steady state cruising got the instant MPG into the low 30s.

The Caravan is nice because the stow n go adds extra space. Escape's conversion pulls the middle bench and replaces it with a storage area over the stow and go. That triples as a bench seat and bed. They left the rear bench in place to legally carry passengers. The kitchen was behind the rear bench. Slide out fridge, stove, sink and some storage. The fresh water and grey water tanks were in the rear stow n go.

Personally I wouldn't waste space on a sink and grey water tank in a rig this small. The sink is too small to do anything. For my Astro Campervan we just use a water jerry can with spout.


Escape replaced their Caravan vans with Transit Connects they call the Santa Cruz. (It has a fixed bed and a slick pull out kitchen)

Juicy has the same set-up as the Escape Caravan we rented. Juicy's Youtube video of their van features:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JceJlnVjhd4

Kitchen
https://www.doityourselfrv.com/wp-co...4-15-57-53.jpg

That's an awesome kitchen setup for one of those. And yeah, a sink in a rig that small is a total waste of time, space and money.

I like the kitchen in the Escape Santa Cruz better but I would replace the sink with a cutting board over storage

https://i2.wp.com/www.escapecamperva...74%2C650&ssl=1

https://i2.wp.com/www.escapecamperva...74%2C650&ssl=1

https://i1.wp.com/www.escapecamperva...75%2C650&ssl=1

I'd get more value from a 2nd burner. I like one of those white plastic folding tables for the kitchen. In a minivan with the bed permanently mounted, I think a surface to make that end of the bed into a counter would do well. Hard to figure out a way to store the table without going to the roof, and hard to figure out how to break down the counter so that it can be stowed elsewhere.

My double burner propane stove would easily fit where that single burner sitting. I'm curious what is under it but my guess is a water tank and grey water tank.

My next campervan will have an electric induction cook top.

I think the fixed bed is a mistake. Even my Astro is a crowded for two during an extended rainy period. You need a place to sit upright. Swivel captains chairs would help.

Murphy bed.

Pull the drawers out, put them on top of the bed at the rear. The bed base is hinged panels like a folding tonneau cover, folding into a 2nd row bench seat. Hardly ideal, but you could even accomplish some table space that way. It could be considered similar to the RT body camper in post #28, but with the seats made out of the bed instead of the bulky stow & go seats.

That is basically what the Escape and Juicy version do. They keep the rear stock seat to maintain the ability to legally carry 5 passengers. No rental company would want to take on the legal liability of making their own seats. However, for only two people pulling the rear seat is a given and the pull out drawers could be combined with the folding bed / benches for the best of both worlds.

It's nice, but if I were looking to build a campervan I'd still rather make something that wouldn't require me to go outside to use the kitchen, even though having the ability to cook outside in situations such as frying fish is good to prevent the smells from fish and cooking grease to stick inside.

Cooking outside is the ticket actually. Even in out big travel trailer I prefer to cook outside. If the kitchen as completely outside built into a wall, it would be preferable to me. An awning is also necessary then. Basically with something as small as a van, i only want to be in there while driving or while sleeping. The high roof would be nice because changing your clothes is a pain all bent over. Again the solution might be just to go outside with a drop down privacy curtain from the awning. You could also add an outdoor shower that way too. Those tankless propane instant water heaters would be part of any build I did.

Actually my plan is to build all of that kitchen, fridge, toilet, hot water, and a bunch of storage into a trailer. Then the van, SUV, pickup, whatever towing it can just be a bed enclosure, or have a roof top tent, or in my case the tent is a 12x15 spike wall tent with a woodstove and nice cots. In my case I will make the trailer off road worthy, although not crazy rockcrawling off road, just good enough to get up the average forest service road around here.

The tent sets up pretty fast, its just would be nice for all the other gear to have a place that doesn't require spreading out and hooking up. Plus it all doesn't fit in the Touareg with the ability to also carry 4 people.

Through the miracle of the hinge, you can have it both ways. Pleez excuse the dated body style*.

https://cdn.goodshomedesign.com/wp-c...-3-640x363.jpg
www.goodshomedesign.com/1967-volkswagen-camper/

The folding table on the door or sink cabinet is where you put the gas stove. You can still get there with a sliding door.

https://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphot...ebay167479.jpg
car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay167479.jpg

The slickest, most modern camper I find is the [URL="https://mensgear.net/2017/08/volkswagen-california-xxl-camper-van-concept.html"]VOLKSWAGEN CALIFORNIA XXL CAMPER VAN CONCEPT
[/URL.] I was lured there by this:

https://mensgear.net/wp-content/uplo...-Concept-1.jpg

But it's pretty nice overall:

https://mensgear.net/wp-content/uplo...Concept-23.jpg

https://mensgear.net/wp-content/uplo...Concept-24.jpg

* I also found this, rack and pinion steering for the Type II. It will be a welcome addition of the new-metal electric autonomous camper/buses of the future.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....6pid%3DApi&f=1
creative-engineering.com/

It may seem dated at first, but the bodystyle of a split-window Kombi still looks great for leisure travelling while keeping a reasonable amount of amenities. There are even some folks who managed to get some sort of mini bath tub aboard.


I remember some sources claiming the last Brazilian Kombi had rack and pinion steering.

Are waterboxers still ty2? Have a couple of 4wd westies in my neighborhood that have what looks like a pinto rack installed. Iirc the early pinto had European stuff installed.

There are two nomenclatures that apply, Types I, II and II vs T1, T2, T3, etcetera.