Any tips for a Delivery Guy?
 

Hey everyone. This is my first post. I've been lurking for awhile and figured it was time to get to know you all. So I just bought my Honda Civic on Wednesday. It's an automatic 2000 model and I was told it was the "VP" (Value Package). I'm not sure if VP means anything so if anyone knows what this might actually be designated as (DX maybe?) I'd appreciate the info.

I've been reading the beginner stuff and doing my best to figure that out. I did pump up my tires to 42 psi (cause 44 just scared me). Still working on my first full tank so we'll see how that goes. But I have some questions.

#1. Since I'm delivering chinese food in town (only on the highway maybe 10-15% of the time) and driving an automatic, what is the best case senario for my MPG? From what I've been reading my job is probably the worst possible for MPG, but I buy my own gas so it would make a big difference in my life if I could even squeeze 35mpg out of this car.

#2. As I understand it my Honda is a sixth generation Civic. I noticed some of you are driving 2000 models. Is there anything different between the 96-2000? Anything you guys could offer as owners of a 2000 or 6th gen. that you've learned?

#3. Pulse and Glide. Ok, I've tried this a few times and can see that it helps maintain the momentum, but I'm scared to death I'm going to tear up my transmission switching to neutral from D4 while driving and back again. Am I just worrying too much or is this a valid concern?

That's about it. I really appreciate any help you guys have for a new guy. I'm really excited to learn from all of you.

Thanks

No idling, no warming up, take weight out. I personally wouldn't p&g an a/t; I'd learn what the best accel rate is, and where to momentarily lift the throttle to induce an upshift, and what is the slowest speed it'll cruise at in top gear.

A hood blanket to keep the engine area hot between journeys, grill block too, especially since your in Illinois. You ECU will initiate auto choke much more than is necessary, figuring out how to fool it would be good too.

a lot of people here moved closer to work and walk to work.
you could do it too. but i wouldn't deliver over a block away.

Do not be afraid to go up to the max tire pressure...not much ride difference between 42 and 44 psi. I have also found that those rim damaging chuck holes will often not damage a rim or tire when pumped up to the max...with less air pressure you bend a rim AND hurt a tire!

@Frank Lee

I'm not one to take much time warming up the car in the morning or between deliveries. Then again I've always been told it's best for the car.

What about idling at stop lights. I'm trying to learn how to time them (is there a guide on that?) but I still end up sitting at a lot of them and I'm sure that adds up. Would that be the time to put it in neutral or does it even make a difference?


@blueflame

It's still a little chilly so I can see the hood blanket helping. Grill block means to put something behind the grill to keep the airflow out, right? What are the chances I'm going to over-heat my car doing that? Does blocking inhibit anything else in the car(Air?)? Also, what about when it starts to get consistently warm again? Would the blanket still be useful or is it getting too hot at that point?

I'm not familiar with "auto-choke" but I get the concept of fooling the computer. How do I learn to fool it?



@luvit

About once a month I think "Man I could save a lot of money on gas if I delivered with a scooter. And then I remember I'd have to balance 4 bags at once while driving it. Ah well. I can dream.

This is the first time I've even been close to the max pressure with one of my cars. My father, who knew nothing about cars, used to say, "Eh...keep em' about 32 psi and you'll be fine". I can definitely tell a huge difference in the traction I'm getting even at 42. Its like I can "feel" the road a lot better. It was raining tonight and I wasn't skidding much at all (even when I was trying a little) which is a big change from when I was delivering with my Saturn at the old 32psi.

Here's a question though. I've seen on some forums people are getting theirs up to 60psi even. Do they have some kind of super-tires or are they just a little bit crazy? Also, I recently saw a tire that claimed to be fuel-saving. Something like 2,500 mi over the life of the tire. When I think about it, that doesn't actually sound like much at all. Is there a "best fuel-efficiency tire" I should look for?

Those people saying to pre-warm are wrong. Maybe that was true in 1906 when that "T" didn't want to go right off (or they didn't know how to work the spark and throttle advance levers) but it's not true now.

I'd leave it in D at lights; about the time you select N the light will change.

42, 44, same difference. I don't go past 50; it's a diminishing returns thing and riding like crap does nothing on the car any favors.

If you wish to ecomod these areas some understanding of cars is required or you could overheat your Honda. Not losing heat between deliveries will help FE a lot. I'd start by reading past threads where most of this has been discussed. I've never had a Civic

A grill block goes in front of the grill, not behind it. A radiator block goes behind the grill. A grill block helps force the air up and over the car for aerodynamic advantage, while still allowing some air to the radiator, but not much.

Auto-choke was used in older cars with carburetors - with fuel injection the computers sprays more fuel to increase the ratio of fuel to air. To trick the computer you would have to make it think that the engine is warmer. It has sensors in the coolant and in other places.

The best thing you can do is to learn how to adjust your driving. Don't power your way up to a light and then hit and hold the brakes. Watch ahead of you and see how far ahead the light is green. If it's red, don't power up to it, let off the gas and coast up to the light or the car in front of you before braking, or if it's about to change, brake early and then as the traffic starts rolling, you are already traveling at the right speed, and you don't have to come to a complete stop.

The biggest FE killer is starting from a complete stop, whether from a traffic light or from park. It takes a lot of power to get a car rolling from a dead stop, and every time you bring it to a stop, you have to start over.

Don't ever "punch it". That will kill your FE. Accelerate smoothly from a stop, and when you are up to speed, ease off and see how far you can go before you have to hit the accelerator again.

Make it a game. The winners are always rolling without ever hitting the gas or the brakes. The less you use either pedal, the more FE points you rack up.

Can't you get a rack like bicycles used to have and use bungee cords???

My bicycle has "Daytrekker" saddle bags, which are plenty large enough for four bags of Chinese food. But I see the appeal of four wheels and an enclosed cabin.

When I have to drive an automatic, I shift to N and roll up to a red light. You'll find it uses much less brake effort than leaving it in D, therefore saving gas and wear on the brakes.

Didn't IsaacCarlson on this forum wire up a set of switches to control his automatic transmission? I dunno if you can fool a Honda TCU, but it's worth investigating.

Considering your driving profile, weight reduction will be helpful. Start with easy things, like rear floormats, rear seat cushions, and carpet in the trunk. Work your way up to harder things, like removing half a gallon (4lbs!) from the washer fluid tank.

You don't have to shift to neutral for pulse and glide. Anyone who does that is taking hypermiling too far.

Overairing the tires is foolish too. A few psi might be OK, but remember you are causing uneven wear, which means tires don't last as long. Have you looked at the price of good tires?

Go to tirerack.com and check out prices, and look up automatic transmission rebuild costs while you're at it. Maybe call a body shop to find out the cost of repairs when your high psi/low traction causes you to crash.
Then you'll realize how stupid it is to try to wring those last 2 mpg out of the car by doing these things.

I propose a #1 rule of hypermiling: Keep your eye on the big picture

It has been well-documented on EcoModder that inflation up to the sidewall max tire pressure does not cause uneven or excessive tire wear.

Also, how could you say that shifting to N is not required for P&G? Of course it is. But I wasn't recommending P&G, nor would I in an automatic. Coasting to a stop in Neutral, though, makes perfect sense. The alternative is to sit there in D like a moron, working your engine against the brakes until the light turns green.

The heaviest item in your trunk by far is your full sized spare. Get that out before you start saving 1lb here and there with the mats! If you're driving pretty much locally you should be fine, or switch to a doughnut spare/carry fix a flat if you're worried about it. I used to keep my spare in the garage except for going on long highway trips, I'd toss it in the trunk.

I don't know that staying in D at a light necessarily uses more fuel than N. After all, you haven't changed the throttle position, and the engine is turning at a lower RPM.

If you remove the spare, you might as well remove the jack and and lug wrench and save a few more lbs.

In my old Civic the back seat was pretty easy to remove, and the passenger seat isn't that hard either. Probably more effective than removing floor mats, and since you are getting in and out of your car all the time you might want the floor mats there to protect the carpet from the dirt being tracked in.

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If you look through the pages of this site you will find that the most mileage is gained from changing the way you drive. Aero, weight, induction, etc., mods won't make as much difference as slowing down and smoothing out your driving, but they will benefit you after you have changed your habits.

I haven't studied it scientifically. I do know, though, that the Scangauge reports the 2010 Accord idles on 25% less fuel in N than in D. Has anyone else with a ScanGauge and an automatic compared gph in N vs D?

I also know that Chevy trucks with the 4AT require much less brake pedal effort when gently braking to a stop in N instead of D. Therefore, the engine is using more fuel and producing more torque in D than N.

Says it all...

Passenger seat seems like a gimme. Saves weight, and gives you room to put your deliveries on the floor within easy reach.

Your engine is turning at lower RPM because the transmission is churning fluid around in the torque converter instead of sitting in neutral. Several people on this forum have confirmed with their Scangauge or MPGuino that the engine uses less fuel in neutral.

That said, I wouldn't use shift back and forth unless you know the light is a long one, and never for P&G. The auto in my Ranger had to go back into the shop after being shifted back into Drive during P&G.

It's definitely less as well with my '05 Toyota Corolla A/T. If i don't shut down at lights then i'll put it in neutral. I don't p&g with my car either, but i'm always NICE-on coasting when i can, especially to red lights.

See, this is what I'm saying. Putting extra wear on the vehicle, especially something it's not made to do, is a bad idea.

There's a difference between doing it at a stoplight and doing it at 55 mph.

Actually, it says that when I present anecdotal evidence, I acknowledge it as anecdotal evidence. Want to prove me wrong? Get a car with a slushbox, measure fuel injector pulswidth in D with the brakes on, and in N. Easy as pie.

But I don't think I'm wrong, as the anecdotes explain. Got any contrariwise anecdotes?

Very good advice IMHO, (unlike some of the argumentation that followed).

Try to time your trips such that either: the engine is never really cold OR if it is really cold you have many deliveries to make such that it does not cool down enough to matter.

If it's below freezing, consider doing a full radiator block. Cold weather operation is a fuel robber.

If you are not sure about the transmission design, don't throw it into neutral unless you can coast to a full stop and then put it back into drive after a standstill. Rebuilding an A/T costs well over 1000 bucks. Ruining your A/T is not worth saving a few $$ in gas.

If you are driving in warm or hot weather, put it in neutral at long stoplights or shut it off. It will take a load off the transmission (reduce heat wear), save a small bit of fuel and can do no harm other than the wear on the starter in restarting the engine.

Accelerate moderately but ASAP into high gear if possible (like if the speed limit is 40 or so); don't take forever in ultra slow acceleration through the lower gears, because they deliver poorer fuel economy.

Don't remove your spare tire - unless you want to be hitchhiking the day you get a flat tire. :D

Re: spare: I think it depends on your history. I went for years without a spare because at that time, it had been even more years since I had tire trouble that required a spare. So I'd say if you haven't been needing a spare, you can probably get away without one, but then have another plan for flats. I had a can of fix-a-flat in the car with no spare - but never used it.

Then I started to run tires until they blow. I am fully aware of the state of the bad tires but am extracting the last mile outta them. So in that case I have a good spare onboard ready to go at all times.

mm k, so drive slower, coast at yellow/orange lights or just stop if you think it'll turn red, drive 5mph under the speed limit, gradually take off from a complete stop, take the longer route that's fuel efficient.

after turning off the car run to the house so you can get back to your warm engine and i;ll eat the cold pizza. lol.

or drive fast, deliver hot pizzas, and get a decent tip.
i tip good, but i bet many people don't.

I start delivering pizzas tomorrow for Marco's, and I don't need any schooling on how to drive my car efficiently, I'm already doing amazingly well. However, I've never delivered anything before as a job. Any tips?

Example: Should I leave my rear wheel skirts on? Do you think it would hurt/help tips if someone saw my car?

You might get more tips if you put a skirt on. Or not.

Thanks Frank. I always appreciate the time and effort you take to post.

You are most welcome! :)

Did you not just say you need no fe schooling? What I just gave you -free!!!- was marketing advice. :thumbup:

I was hoping for something else. I don't think my employer will let me deliver pizzas in a skirt. Even the girls can't do that >.>

Perhaps giant pizza decals on the skirts, or signage for your employer on them, would help? Can't see it effecting tips, but your boss might give you an "atta boy"!

I know: we are fond of pizza pan wheel covers... you make up a set WITH PIZZA ON THEM, clear urethane the pies right on there, drive around with pizza wheels. :thumbup:

Signage on the wheel skirts . . . hmmm.
Actually a good idea.
Thanks Frank.

In addition to bike delivery solutions like saddle bags/front mounted trays/racks that I would imagine are more pervasive than cars in big cities, an idea comes to me when thinking about alternatives to gas cars here, when all the deliveries are going to be local: Electric car. Depending on how many miles you typically travel during a shift, and how long you plan to make deliveries your source of income, going all electric might be an economical decision as well.

As for improving your car, it really is a bummer that you have an auto, because most of the advantage you can get in a city setting is through P&G. There is absolutely no uneven tread wear nor traction reduction when pumping your tires up, and in fact I put mine to 50psi when my sidewall says 44, but 44 or whatever your tires' sidewall says maximum will suffice. Basically, as thatguitarguy said, the key to efficient city driving is touching any of your pedals as little as possible. The best way to accomplish this is P&G, you have an auto so like others said I wouldn't recommend P&G although if you know of lights that regularly take a bit of time to change, I think it's worth shifting to neutral - I've found driving the automatics my family has (subaru forester & toyota tundra), idle speed goes down and you can tell it's not constantly "trying" to move forward when in Neutral. I also coast in neutral with the engine on on very long stretches (long hills), but other than in these two scenarios, I keep it in drive, and try my best to achieve a quasi pulse and glide in drive. Aero mods have been very effective in my 98 Civic EX (~43-44mpg to ~48-50mpg in the summer), but you need to do a lot of 40+mph travel to see the benefits of aero mods.

The best/easiest thing you can do aside from driving habits in a city setting is reduce as much vehicle weight as possible and keep the tires pumped to max sidewall rating so that when you are stuck in a stop and go situation, it will cost the engine as little energy to get the car moving as possible. Low rolling resistance tires are a big help too if you can find them on craigslist or have money to spend on new ones, but unless you have giant knobby jeep tires, won't afford you nearly as much benefit as driving techniques.

Good luck and welcome to EM! :thumbup:

Yeah, that's why I was a little hesitant to endorse the grill block. Slow speeds and lots of stoplights mean that a grill block is probably more risk than reward in this application.

The only reward a grill block has in a city driving setting is a small thermal benefit during the winter months, but even then if you look at my fuel log, there isn't really much difference from the first winter (no grill block) and this last winter (full grill block). I didn't get on the ball this year about installing a block heater, which is another great suggestion even if it isn't wintertime.

fwd honda ..and automatic. those motor mounts must have the bushings buried to rock hard already...

try a 32psi tread.
are they 15 inch?

limit stomps on throttle. about all can do.

tricking electronics is all over the place, find some hacks, pretend it is full WOT (working operating temp) all the time.