Any Worthwhile Additives?
 

Are there lubrication and/or fuel additives that provide more value than their cost?

What about additives to the crankcase? At least one forum member is a Tufoil enthusiast; are there others on here who use it?

What about fuel additives? Fuel injector cleaner favorites? How often should they be used?

Lane

synthetic oil.

lasts longer than regular (less oil changes = save money over time), less resistant (less power overcoming friction, more turning wheels)

id say fuel injector cleaner int he gas ever few tanks would be a good.. keep the injectors cleaned and spraying at the best possable..

Im also a Seafoam fan.. its amazing what that stuff will clean out of a motor..

Engine oil weight selection will have a larger impact on efficiency than regular vs. synthetic (ever wonder why the synthetic oil makers don't claim improved MPG on their products?). Go for the lightest weight oil recommended for your vehicle use/temperature range.

I definitely agree. Seafoam is one the best solvents I've come across. You can put it in the fuel tank for the injectors, the crankcase before an oil change, or draw it into a vaccum line to really clear out the gunk/carbon. (Afterwards, it's a good idea to install a PCV "Catch Device" to prevent the oily residue from forming again in the intake manifold, etc.)

SF goes into every internal combustion engine in my garage (including the mower). Some recommend AutoRX, but Seafoam can be bought at most auto parts stores.

I must caution, as the carbon burns-off during the vaccum draw, it produces copious amounts of white smoke. On vehicles that are really loaded-up, it may take a bit of driving (a few miles) before the smoke disappears.

RH77

I've been using around 5oz. of 2/3rds Marvel Mystery Oil & 1/3rd Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant every other fill-up or so in the Zuki. The SX4 has a 11.9 gallon capacity fuel tank.

I don't feel comfortable claiming a MPG increase, because it's so subjective, but I have noticed a 1.4 MPG decrease when not using this mix.

I am thinking about trying this locally made fuel additive called E3 Fuels, next.

I've been happy with Tufoil. Been using it for 20 years or so. Never had any problems with my vehicles. Always noticed a lower RPM and higher MPG. When I had my 98 Dodge Ram, I had the infamous engine knock. This knock was so bad, it sounded like two sledge hammers hitting each other. Dodge said nothing was wrong and the noise wasn’t hurting my engine. For whatever reason, it wasn’t until the Ram hit 40,000 that I put tufoil in, within 1-2,000 miles, the knocking was gone. Sadly, or happily, Dodge was forced to buy back the Ram (Lemon Law) and that was it.
I use Mobil-1 in all my vehicles, probably just for that added protection. I also tend to put some Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel tank every other fill up. I will stick a can of B-12 in the fuel tank 1 fill up before my oil changes.
Probably 25 years ago, a friend, whose father was a manager at a local Pep Boys, convinced me to buy a fuel catalyst called “Propel”. I wished another “real” fuel catalyst, such as Propel, which you added to the fuel tank, would come out.

Everyone should learn about FP+ by LCD, Inc. It is unlike any fuel additive on the market, using a different main ingredient (I don't remember what). It's been around for many decades but only recently been revamped and offered to the average consumer over the internet. It is not a shock dose additive, but a maintenance dose product. I use 1.5 oz. every tankful.

Terry Dyson of Dyson Analysis has repeatedly expressed his positive opinions on FP+'s abilities as an upper cylinder lubricant, combustion chamber/fuel line/fuel injector cleaner, and a fuel pump lubricant. It also acts as a gas stabilizer, though some have claimed it's not so great at that. The home consumer makes up a small portion of their customer base, as the company usually sells in bulk to organizations (Durham Transportation school buses, Bay City, MI school buses, Government of Mexico, etc.). From what I can gather, their main business comes from school bus and trucking companies.

I've been using it for almost a year, though I can't give you any MPG improvement figures. I don't have any records of gas mileage prior to using FP+ so there's nothing to compare. They don't make any outrageous claims; FP+ *may* increase gas mileage because reducing combustion chamber and fuel injector deposits will make for a more efficient engine.

I am a believer because countless UOAs at the BITOG forums have shown improvement with Fuel Power. Tribologists there agree that it works incredibly well. Take a look at the website and the product analysis of FP+ and LC20.

I was planning on starting a whole new thread dedicated to getting people to try FP+ and observe any changes in gas mileage. I have a lot of faith in Terry who does my oil analysis, so some of that confidence spills over into the products he supports.

Buy it! I want to see objective data on this additive.

I've read about FP, but I guess what prevents me from trying it is that they want almost $10 for shipping.

Probably should start another thread on it because this will get way off topic.

Maybe you can contact the firm and see if they are interested in creating a group buy for us. I just think the high shipping fee is too much.

I've been using Fuel Power 60 and it's replacement FP-3000 from Lube Control for a few years with good results.
I found that I had forgot to add it on my last two tanks and I saw my fuel mileage drop. The first one was slight and the second one jumped way out in front of me when I saw my fuel mileage on that tank. I didn't forget to add it when I filled up yesterday. I'll see what this tanks mileage is in a few weeks when I fill up again. From what I can tell I lost between .75 and 1.25 mpg in those two tanks.
Another product I have had great results with is Auto-Rx.
I used it in my 97 Volvo 960 at 70K miles and saw a jump between one and one and a half mpg. It is an engine cleaner you dump in your oil and drive for 2,500 to 3,000 miles. I use 3oz as a maintenance dose in my DD a 87 Volvo 740 turbo and the valve train and the camshaft is spotless.
Other than those two I haven't seen any product that really does what it says. Two others that seem to have had good reviews are Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil. Personally I have never used them so no input on those two.

Better yet -- free empirical testing! I'm sure someone here would take a free one for the sake of Science -- right guys! :thumbup:

*Disclaimer -- yeah, um... I haven't really tested SeaFoam in any form :o I guess the smoke means it's working! It did eliminate valve clatter after a couple treatments, which is some data. Otherwise, the butt-dyno hasn't noticed anything...

RH77

I use no additives at all. I don't believe in them to tell you the truth. I truly believe fuel system cleaners or injector cleaner added to fuel does nothing but shorten the fuel pump life. Gasoline itself is not only a flammable liquid, but it also cleans.

If you have to add additives to your oil, then you must be using the wrong oil. I simply change my oil every 5000 miles and use the lightest recommended grade of non-synthetic oil.

It all comes down to what the manufacturer recommends and there is an interesting book in the glovebox called an "Owners Manual" that everyone should read. If you don't have one, get one! That manual says nothing about adding poop.

Now there are 2 small things....................

SeaFoam - Great for cleaning a gunked up engine, but not as an additive.
Marvel Mystery Oil - I dunno because it's so mysterious.

I use Sea Foam to clean out the engine, hecka lotta smoke... crazy! Didn't do any A/B good tank test yet, but as overall maint. it does knock out a lot of gunk that can build up.

Seafoam via a vacuum line is always good for a nice smoke show.

Seafoam does NOT belong in the crankcase. It's pale oil, lighter fluid, and rubbing alcohol and does not have the proper cleaning ability or lubricating ability to be in the engine.

I am a huge fan of Auto-Rx Engine Cleaner and FP60 by Lube Control

I've been successfully using them for years. Nothing has improved my mpg better than those two products on the nearly a dozen or so cars I've used it on.

Yes darkdan, I am pained by the excellent, although undeserved, reputation SeaFoam has. Your description sounds about right ... rather unremarkable ingredients that might have slight (but probably insignificant) benefits as a fuel additive ... but is NOT to be used in the crankcase as many do.

Regardless, the stuff is overpriced and should be passed up. :p

Johnny, far be it from me to question The Mullet, but I believe a good, pour-in cleaner used 1-2 times per year is an excellent practice. There's simply too much bad gas out there and I've seen the good cleaners like Red Line Oil SI-1 fix a stumbling engine with less than 1/2 of a bottle used. :)

If there was a miracle mystery juice that restores an unmaintained engine back to new, then everyone would have over a million miles on their cars. How do you think our company maintains a fleet of trucks with over a million miles on them? With "miracle juice"? No, but with regular maintenance.

I tear down engines all the time and can tell if it has regular maint done just by looking inside. I maintain my crap and never had an engine fail on me. Now, I do know that Seafoam does clean a gunked up engine and regularly using it keeps it clean, however, dump some of that into an unmaintained engine and there is the chance of carbon deposits getting lodged into the valve seats and burn it up.

Cutlass Blown, K2500 Overheated
 

Very true. Down in Akron, my folks loaned a relative their '93 K2500 / 350. LSS, she overheated it and limped it back home (yes, after throwing a rod in my Dad's mint 1988 Cutlass -- oil light was on -- checked the tranny fluid by accident -- ran it out of oil). Family tension mounts.

Anyways, the truck was salvaged (maintained well up to that point). My Step-Dad put in a new rad, but it wouldn't turn over, even with a new batt. Thought it was toast. He doesn't wrench much, so I recommended dumping Seafoam into the cylinders and letting it set a day or so while other repairs were going on: change the oil, etc. The next day -- fired right up! It lives! The Farm Truck returned to the farm where it belongs. 200K miles and still hauling.

We'll see how long it lasts.

Now, for the Olds. Dad bought it new. 80K original miles on a 1988! The interior looks like the model year brochure. It runs, but the rod's clearly thrown. It's the last RWD Cutlass, before they intro'd the FWD model that year.

It has that (IMO) pathetic 140 hp, 307-CID V-8, but it's "original" so he's upset (a true car guy). What's a cheap alternative? We've looked at Jasper, crate engines, etc -- all really worth more than the car itself. It would make affordable transpo if repaired (except for the FE). It just sits (2 years now).

RH77

I have full support for seafoam. I had a samurai that would NOT run at all. Had trouble idling, and 0 power. Ran 1/3rd a can in the oil, 1/3rd can in the gas, and poured the rest right down the carb. Truck ran like it was brand new then.

For my TDI I add 2% biodiesel to my D2 since they introduced ULSD to help with the lubrication of the fuel pump. Running a bottle of Diesel Purge straight at the fuel filter really helps cleaning the injectors nozzles.

For older diesels like my 300td, regular use of Diesel Kleen makes a noticeable difference in running and protects the injector pump from the ravages of ULSD. The problem is keeping it in the car and on hand for when I fill up -- it's nasty stuff and the smell permeates the cabin through the bottle!

That stuff really does work well -- just don't do it where the massive smoke will be a problem!

When I picked up my escort it had 70K miles on it (1995), I bought it from a friend that was the original owner. He did all the required work on the car at the time/mileage it was called for, so I knew the car was is good mechanical shape, but these are the same things I have done with all my cars, and what I plan to continue to do with the Escort as long as I own it.

I gave the car a full tune-up about a week after getting it, mostly for piece-of-mind. This included pulling the valve cover and oil pan and cleaning the engine out and inspecting it, everything looked very good so it was put back together with new gaskets and all new synthetic fluids, along with all new filters, ect. I also cleaned the injectors and intake manifold, changed the trans-filter and fluid, coolant, sparkplugs, plug wires, a couple dry-rotted vac. lines, ect, ect, ect.

Since then I have been using all Redline fluids in the engine (5w20 in the summer, 0w20 in the winter) I don’t do much driving with the car, so the oil/filter gets changed every 6 months and that’s when I switch weights (I also change the oil filter at the half-way point till the next oil change, and top off the oil as needed).

The trans has Redline D4-ATF, I will change the transmission fluid every other year (and the trans filter every other fluid change), or 25k miles, along with the coolant. To change the trans-fluid, I have a trusted shop flush it out to make sure all the old fluid in the cooler, lines, and torque converter is changed. I use a 20/80 anti-freeze/water mix, with 1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter.

All the wheel bearings will be getting Redline CV lube on them and that get re-greased anytime I work on the brakes, hasn’t happened yet on this car, but I am looking to do it in the next few months.

The power steering on the car was flushed and filled with Redline power steering fluid. This gets changed at the same time as the trans-fluid/coolant.

I change the sparkplugs/fuel filter once a year, and clean the air filter (K&N) at the same time.

The only other regular thing I do is use 1oz/gal of Lucas fuel injector cleaner to the gas tank when the oil gets changed (I time it out so that I have to get a full tank of gas, so for me it’s about 10oz of cleaner and a fill-up), and do the same at the half-way point till the next oil change (same time I change the oil filter). This works out to be about every 3 months (about every 6th tank of gas). Redline does make a good fuel injector cleaner, but I can buy the Lucas product in a 1 gal jug, making the cost-per-application much less, and they both work about the same.

I have tried other products, like Amsoil, Royal Purple, Mobil 1, Enos, Shell Helix, Castrol GTX, Valvoline Redline, ect. They are all good products and the most important thing is to make sure you choose the right weight/formulation of fluid for your application, and change/service the fluid when needed.

One other note, when I say I change the oil every 6 months, and the trans-fluid every other year, ect...I change the fluids when needed based on the current condition of the oil/fluid, some of this is just experience of knowing the feel/look/smell of a fluid when it’s starting to break down. It just ends up that this takes about the same amount of time each change, but sometimes when I add a summer road-trip in, or the ambient temps are abnormally high/low, or other factors can require a more/less frequent change.

Some simple things you can do is check the condition/level of all the fluids in your car (that have a dip-stick or are otherwise easy to check) when you get gas, being that I only have to get gas every 2-3 weeks, I do this every time, along with checking my tires air pressure. If you fill up more frequently you can try every other tank of gas, or every 3rd time, ect.

Once you get in the habit of checking these things you’ll get better at it and it will take less time. I always make sure I keep a few paper-towels in the glove box incase the gas station doesn’t have them. When I pull up the pump I pop my hood, start filling the car with gas and then go to work! I can get everything under the hood done, and get all the valve stem caps off before the pump shuts off (full tank). Then it only takes me another minute or two to finish checking the air pressure and put the caps back on and I’m done. I try to always go to the gas station at off peak times to avoid waiting for a pump or having someone wait for me.

Again, what I do (I know) is a little overkill, but I am fine with spending a bit of extra time/money on the car, it’s really not much in the big picture of owning a car for many years. You will be rewarded with a reliable car, that is fuel efficient and safe.

Please make sure you recycle all the fluids properly! Most major cities will have services that can deal with all kinds of automotive parts/fluids (most auto-zone type places will only take engine oil and nothing else). For private individuals with small quantities to dispose of there is usually no cost, or its minimal. I happen to take my used engine oil to a place that refines it into fuel for restored steam locomotives!

Tip: Plastic cat-liter containers make great short term storage for automotive fluids till you can make a trip to the disposal facility. I have stored various fluids in them for months with no signs of the containers breaking down.

Few, sorry, I didnt mean for that to run so long! Well as you can see I am a fan of Redline products and Lucas injector cleaner.

Has anyone used Acetone or butyl Alcohol? I have read online that people have and it works. Itried Acetone and found the price of the acetone weighed out the MPG increase. Any other ideas?

I'm going to run seafoam in my '90 Firebird very soon. But what I've always loved is Restore engine treatment (what's on spikeTV on the weekends). Tossed it in the GMC Jimmy. Cured it's rough idle, and it ran over all a ton smoother. The stuff lasts about 5000 miles if I remember right, and we got about 4500 out of it before you could tell the engine was starting to run a bit rougher. But fuel economy was a bit better over all, and just having an engine that felt happier made it good for me. 5-6 bucks I think.

When I 1st got the firebird, it ran like hell. After the water pump and a few drives to let the ECU relearn (the car sat for almost a year before I got it, dead batt and all) and it was still a pretty rough car. Tossed in a can of Restore, and the car started easier, and ran a good bit smoother. No, the effects of it didn't last long, the car leaks oil like mad, but it helped get me past inspection. lol

6 new fuel injectors later and now the car runs much better, so I only wonder what seafoam and Restore would do for it.

You're better off without that Restore stuff.

Check out the increased compression from auto-rx:

RMS13.com The Auto-Rx test

I'm an Auto-Rx fan myself. Got it in the diff's, tranny, PS, and sump.

Restore will not fix stuck piston rings. Most blow by is caused by carboned up piston rings. Auto-Rx will dissolve that carbon and get the rings to seal against the cylinder walls. It will not repair worn metal but nothing out there will.
I had a rough idle in my 960 and with in 500 miles the Auto-Rx got rid of it.
I haven't had it come back in the last 24K miles either.

Seafoam through the carb or for the FI people sucked in through a vacuum line on a hot motor works wonders.

This works via two methods. One is solvency (do I have to explain this one?) and the second is thermal shock. The cold Seafoam hits the hot carbon and causes it to quickly contract. This breaks it's kung fu grip on the piston top.

However, water has been used in the same manner for many years, but considering Seafoam's volatility it's safer.

Having said that, I still do not believe it should be used in the crankcase since it's low viscosity and high volatility and the lack of lubrication properties means it shouldn't be in the oil. Also, it's far too weak to be used in the fuel tank.

But FYI is anyone has never used it, absolutely do not let the car stall when letting seafoam in through the vacuum lines. Risk hydro-locking the engine. Kinda let the vacuum line "sip" the Seafoam out of a cup or something of the sort.

Back when I used to use seafoam (before I discovered FP60 by Lube Control) I always let mine stall.

Seafoam has such high volatility and low flash point I highly doubt you'd hydrolock the engine unless you used a significant amount. I only used 1 oz per cylinder (so 8 oz on my V8, 4 oz on my 4 banger).

If there was a risk you'd hear about it on the internet all the time.

Besides, one of the two ways Seafoam works is by solvency. You want it in liquid foam on the piston.

When I first used it, the recommendation was to slowly pour it in the vac line, then let it stall after 1/2 a can or so (pour it in faster).

Then wait 5-10 minutes for the solvent to start working on the gunk...

...and then go out crank it over. Then "briskly" accelerate the vehicle to blow out the carbon in white smoke form.

If you left it running, the smoke would build-up in the area where you're working, while you re-attach the booster line. You really have to drive the vehicle to clear all of this out. I haven't had any vapor-lock problems in over 10 applications, in different vehicles. Has anyone had this problem?

The problem I have with most of the other brands is that you have to special order them or go through a dealer of some sort. I just go to the auto parts store and pick up a few cans of SeaFoam.

RH77

I am browsing the site for a useful additive, and came across this thread...just prior to this, I was searching for acetone references...

Don't get me wrong, today is my fill-up day after a month long gap, so was gathering all info I could to further improve my mpg ratings...

There seems to be some reactionary bias to the attitude prevailing on the fora here... trikkonceptz (hopefully the spelling is right) was the one who was trying to tell that he was getting some 3 mpg advantage using acetone, and he was mauled almost to death for saying that. But in this thread I see that everyone is blithely talking about the additive of his/her own choice, without substantiating anything about it, neither through fuel logs, nor through demonstrable experiments. And those experiments that did show improvements with acetone were attributed to placebo effect, etc etc.

Can we have some objective support to the claims made for various additives discussed here, so I can make up my mind as to what to zero on for my next tank? Thanks in advance!!

I'm with mullet on this one.....additives a junk.

In short,"no".

It is next to impossible for a driver to produce reliable or valid results of fuel or oil additives in on-road driving because it is next to impossible to do A-B-A comparisons in identical conditions. Tank to tank comparisons don't qualify as reliable.

Unless you can find laboratory results of additive effects from a reputable 3rd party, I wouldn't waste my time on them. You'll have better results applying these ideas first, then these.

I always use kerosene to flush the oil on a really dirty engine and windshield washer fluid to clean the combustion chambers.

My grandmother had a 93 Tempo with 1000 miles on it ~10 years later I got the car. I knew the engine would be a mess from only going 2 miles to church and back. So I put a quart of kerosene in the oil so it was a bit overfilled. I drove it up the road about 5 miles keeping the rpms up then changed the oil. It was like sludge coming out. I had to change the oil 3 times that day using cheap oil to get it cleaned out good but when I was done inside the valve cover looked new again. I figured it probably wore the engine some but overall it was better off. That car was really unreliable since it sat for so long. I don't think I will ever deal with another 'driven by an old lady' car. They have way to many age related issues over time.

On the top end I usually just run a hose from a ported vacuum source to the washer fluid tank. I used to just twist a wire around the hose to restrict flow but using a clear hose and fish tank gang valve is much nicer so that is what I use now. I drive the car normal and run about a gallon of fluid through the engine like that over about 50-100 miles. On the few engines I have done that to that I have took apart they all had very clean pistons and heads. Doing that every 10-25k miles seems to be about all that is needed. I have never tried seafoam but I figure it does basically the same thing.

Windshield washer fluid in place of Seafoam? Hmmm...

I can second the experience of a car that wasn't driven much having problems. My second car was a 1990 Geo Prizm, I bought it in 2001 with about 80K miles on it. Despite being built by Toyota I had more problems with that car than any other car I've owned by far. Cars need to be driven.

geoff -

I am using Redline fuel injector cleaner in my gas tank right now. I picked up on it because Redline oil is sold on a Saturn performance parts website.

Another website devoted to all-things-oil is Bob is the Oil Guy :

Bob Is The Oil Guy

CarloSW2