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-   -   Anyone else notice a HUGE loss in MPG, It's NOT your imagination (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/anyone-else-notice-huge-loss-mpg-its-not-40001.html)

Tahoe_Hybrid 02-11-2022 05:51 PM

Anyone else notice a HUGE loss in MPG, It's NOT your imagination
 
looks like they're using experimental fuels in the gas now and/or scamming with with E85 in the pumps...

looks like they're scamming us with HIGHER Ethanol in the gas?

Getting upto -38% to -33% loss in MPG lately..

my dads car was getting only 20mpg in his 4 banger (rated for 26 - 27 mpg Highway: 34 MPG) no matter how hard i hyper mile it i can't get passed 26 even if I time it to hit every green light i should be at lest get 30-32


on the Sonic it's getting 6-12MPG even though it's rated 25/34 hyw/28 combined mpg

the SUV has also been running fairly positive fuel trims 10-12 range


I all ready replace the throttle body, mass air flow , air filter, map/baro


I tried adding an artificial restriction to the intake and it went negative fuel trims...

a lot of reports of other people losing mpg as well as well as the smell of the fuel being less gas like

redpoint5 02-11-2022 06:31 PM

While my memory may be faulty, I seem to recall MPG dropping 10% when E10 was introduced in my 1996 Subaru Legacy. I did no controlled tests though, so I would expect the actual decrease in MPG to be less.

There's no point in fuels with higher ethanol concentrations unless they have defined what problem is being solved, and how that solves it IN ADDITION TO engines being specifically tuned to operate with that ratio of ethanol.

Just because an engine can run on higher concentrations of ethanol doesn't mean it's a good idea.

freebeard 02-11-2022 10:59 PM

Quote:

looks like they're scamming us with HIGHER Ethanol in the gas?
This is easily testable. Gasoline and ethanol have differing specific gravities. Compare clear premium, rubbing alchohol and a sample. Use a titration tube for accuracy.

Tahoe_Hybrid 02-11-2022 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 663115)
This is easily testable. Gasoline and ethanol have differing specific gravities. Compare clear premium, rubbing alchohol and a sample. Use a titration tube for accuracy.

they must be mixing in some other fuel beside the gas and ethanol

the "gas" does not smell of gasoline

oil pan 4 02-12-2022 12:03 AM

Gasoline smells like gasoline here. Just filled up the hybrid earlier today. Still getting 39mpg which is normal for driving around town.

redpoint5 02-12-2022 12:11 AM

The most recent car purchase I've made is a 2012 Prius plug-in bought in 2015. I sold that. Now the most recent purchase I still own is a 2006 Acura TSX bought in 2010. I don't own a vehicle from the last decade; closer to 2.

It's conceivable that I may never buy another petrol burning passenger vehicle. If I do, it's very likely to be my last.

bwilson4web 02-19-2022 04:52 AM

Depending on where you live and the gasoline source, there can be a measurable effect on MPG. For example, additive mixes: https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/i...g%20components

Gasoline blending components:
Naphthas which will be used for blending or compounding into finished aviation or motor gasoline (e.g., straight-run gasoline, alkylate, reformate, benzene, toluene, andxylene). Excludes oxygenates (alcohols, ethers), butane, and pentanes plus.
Bob Wilson

oil pan 4 02-19-2022 04:18 PM

Still the same here.
I suspect winter cold mixed with a little mass hysteria.

freebeard 02-19-2022 04:42 PM

Quote:

Anyone else notice a HUGE loss in MPG, It's NOT your imagination
Maybe it's just confirmation bias, but the last time I drove I saw that the gas gauge was on 1/2 when I had tried to fill the tank a week earlier.

I had asked for a fill and thrown down $25, but it clicked off so I threw down another $50 but they just gave me change for it and refused to top the tank. :( I'd picked that station so I could get a reading on the bottom of the gauge (it read full when I pulled away), not going back there.

So that's a big maybe?

Piotrsko 02-19-2022 08:01 PM

Don't know how your super responds, but ours was sensitive to some tank configuration oddity. From the neck to 1/2 tank was like 150 miles, below half tank was 80 miles to empty on the gauge. the lower float stuck every so often.

freebeard 02-19-2022 10:52 PM

The Superbeetle has gone to ground upriver. I have to sell the Dasher before it can come home, according to the new 'Home Owners Assoc.' [slumlord].

The XFi is my weekly driver.

oil pan 4 02-20-2022 04:49 PM

HOAs are a breeding ground for people who failed out of politics.

freebeard 02-20-2022 05:09 PM

California politics. :)
Quote:

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JSH 02-22-2022 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahoe_Hybrid (Post 663104)
looks like they're using experimental fuels in the gas now and/or scamming with with E85 in the pumps...

Who is "They". It is illegal to pump E85 from a gas pump labelled E10.

wdb 02-23-2022 10:34 PM

Is it just me or is that a unicorn over there.

ksa8907 02-24-2022 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 663714)
Who is "They". It is illegal to pump E85 from a gas pump labelled E10.

It's The Man, man. Us vs them! :rolleyes:

Tahoe_Hybrid 03-08-2022 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH (Post 663714)
Who is "They". It is illegal to pump E85 from a gas pump labelled E10.

well there has been many many reports of people getting way less MPG then normal..

I don't think it was a bad batch of fuel how could it happen from multiple places across the country? and why was the effect on multiple cars that i use... a 4banger was barely getting 20mpg around town now that the garbage gas is no longer present in the tank i'm getting normal mpg of 35 around town in the same 4 banger?...

serialk11r 03-11-2022 02:45 AM

I thought I lost 7% of my mpg when I filled up with winter fuel which seemed abnormal.

I did some reading and found some citations suggesting "typical" winter gasoline is 10% butane while summer gasoline is only 2% butane. Liquid butane has about 14% lower volumetric energy density than gasoline, so that's only supposed to be a 1% difference unless the butane content is abnormally high or butane disproportionately lowers the density of gasoline.

This chart is completely unrelated to butane but it seems like gasoline's density could possibly vary a lot depending on the blend...that's a 4% difference right there from adding this "hydrocracker naptha"!

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...n-Gasoline.png

So maybe that winter Nevada fuel really is 7% lower energy than summer California fuel. Drats, I thought I was getting a good deal since it was slightly cheaper, guess not.

Piotrsko 03-11-2022 12:20 PM

Could be but most fuel here for sale in Reno is imported from the San Fran APCD refiners via pipeline and meets that spec, except for Maverick which has quality control issues. Drive 20 miles to Carson and they get their fuel elsewhere (modesto?) By truck.

Vegas and surrounds are pipeline from LAAPCD via 14" pipeline out of san berdue which is prone to leaking when trains derail onto it.

oil pan 4 03-11-2022 02:39 PM

No unusual changes for me.

serialk11r 03-11-2022 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotrsko (Post 664450)
Could be but most fuel here for sale in Reno is imported from the San Fran APCD refiners via pipeline and meets that spec, except for Maverick which has quality control issues. Drive 20 miles to Carson and they get their fuel elsewhere (modesto?) By truck.

Vegas and surrounds are pipeline from LAAPCD via 14" pipeline out of san berdue which is prone to leaking when trains derail onto it.

Oh interesting, that's why Carson City has much lower prices I guess?

I started off with a full tank of Costco summer fuel that sat around for a while, then I added a little E85 to it to boost the octane. Then I filled it with some winter fuel at a 76 and it seemed like the mpg dropped a bit.

Then I went up to Reno, filled at a Costco on the way. Seemed like I lost more mpg but it could have been the wind.

Finally in Reno I had a full tank of Raley's fuel and at that point I was extremely sure the gasoline was lower density because I could go downhill and still have less mpg than before.

All I know for sure is that I'm getting 10% lower mpg compared to the summer despite diluting my motor oil with some 0w-16 to reduce its viscosity. I still have the same piece of tape covering the oil cooler to keep the oil hotter, and I pumped the tires up more to compensate for lower temps.

Tahoe_Hybrid 03-12-2022 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serialk11r (Post 664504)
Oh interesting, that's why Carson City has much lower prices I guess?

I started off with a full tank of Costco summer fuel that sat around for a while, then I added a little E85 to it to boost the octane. Then I filled it with some winter fuel at a 76 and it seemed like the mpg dropped a bit.

Then I went up to Reno, filled at a Costco on the way. Seemed like I lost more mpg but it could have been the wind.

Finally in Reno I had a full tank of Raley's fuel and at that point I was extremely sure the gasoline was lower density because I could go downhill and still have less mpg than before.

All I know for sure is that I'm getting 10% lower mpg compared to the summer despite diluting my motor oil with some 0w-16 to reduce its viscosity. I still have the same piece of tape covering the oil cooler to keep the oil hotter, and I pumped the tires up more to compensate for lower temps.

we had all ready been on winter gas FOR A LONG time so it's not relevant
:rolleyes:

I mean they do put fresh gas in 2-3 times a day it's not like it still had summer gas in it from 5 months ago


the switch is done in oct 1

Piotrsko 03-12-2022 10:32 AM

CC has lower tax rate on the fuel and their sources are cheaper because it isn't SFAPCD fuel. Still CALI fuel, however, so it gets "oxygenated" after September.

If you bought left over summer fuel, it would be so full of water as to be almost unusable.

Reno is technically "up hill" but mostly the prevailing wind through Washoe valley favors southbound travel with a tailing portside flow. 70 posted with a 20mph headwind...........

Tahoe_Hybrid 03-14-2022 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotrsko (Post 664527)
CC has lower tax rate on the fuel and their sources are cheaper because it isn't SFAPCD fuel. Still CALI fuel, however, so it gets "oxygenated" after September.

If you bought left over summer fuel, it would be so full of water as to be almost unusable.

Reno is technically "up hill" but mostly the prevailing wind through Washoe valley favors southbound travel with a tailing portside flow. 70 posted with a 20mph headwind...........

this is a new gas station the product is moving fast they have a weekly deal on gas so yes it's moving fast

maybe a miscounting faulty pump?

serialk11r 03-25-2022 04:24 PM

The fuel in my tank was summer fuel because I filled the tank in July and didn't drive the car for a few months (I put a few ounces of Lucas fuel stabilizer).

kach22i 04-03-2022 11:22 AM

I too noticed a drop in mpg with the switch to winter gas this year, new to me car so cannot compare to other years. However, it was a bigger drop than I ever noticed in my Geo Tracker and Chevy S-10 going back 30 years in memory collectively.

I unfortunately used twice a Shell gas station that was selling something else than Shell, just as bad as other gas stations.

If your car(s) use premium like my two cars (45 old Porsche, 10 year old Infiniti) the nitrogen additives in Shell make just as much of a difference as between summer and winter blends of gasoline.

Tahoe_Hybrid 10-09-2022 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 665512)
I too noticed a drop in mpg with the switch to winter gas this year, new to me car so cannot compare to other years. However, it was a bigger drop than I ever noticed in my Geo Tracker and Chevy S-10 going back 30 years in memory collectively.

I unfortunately used twice a Shell gas station that was selling something else than Shell, just as bad as other gas stations.

If your car(s) use premium like my two cars (45 old Porsche, 10 year old Infiniti) the nitrogen additives in Shell make just as much of a difference as between summer and winter blends of gasoline.

i replaced both o2 sensor on bank2 it had a bad sensor causing issues with the DFCO and showing like 0.1volts randomly on sensor 2. when it should be 0.8v

serialk11r 10-12-2022 08:48 PM

I don't think additives affect mpg, they are very miniscule in concentration. I don't think the difference can come from ethanol either, because E10 is capped at 10%. However a lot of lighter aliphatic hydrocarbons do have much lower density and can be blended in to produce gasoline that has lower energy density, but they would need to keep the RVP down, so there are limitations too.

Tmugz88 12-04-2022 11:28 AM

Based on our fuel changes in Wisconsin I'm losing 3-5mpg even with my all season tires . I thought that maybe my winters had effected my mpg but it has to be fuel. My driving hasn't changed , my commute is the same and since right around late October my mpg has dropped significantly.

Phase 12-04-2022 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tmugz88 (Post 677662)
Based on our fuel changes in Wisconsin I'm losing 3-5mpg even with my all season tires . I thought that maybe my winters had effected my mpg but it has to be fuel. My driving hasn't changed , my commute is the same and since right around late October my mpg has dropped significantly.

Same. I can barely push 50 mpg average on my Ioniq right now with dry sunny roads and ambient temps of 45 degrees and hyper milking techniques.


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