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-   -   Aptera Reboot - Improved (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/aptera-reboot-improved-37804.html)

NeilBlanchard 08-31-2019 12:00 AM

Aptera Reboot - Improved
 
This is very interesting - the original founders of Aptera have restarted the company, and have redesigned it:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...t-electric-car

https://spectrum.ieee.org/image/MzM2MzA2OQ.jpeg

https://spectrum.ieee.org/image/MzM2MzE5NQ.jpeg

It appears to have in wheel motors on all 3 wheels. This will improve aero, by avoiding exposed drive shafts, and probably more efficient, too.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/28/...hicle-revival/

They are 50kW in-wheel motors.

redpoint5 08-31-2019 03:54 AM

200 HP on a lightweight trike? That's monstrous.

oil pan 4 08-31-2019 10:05 AM

The most important number.
How many years?

They went with hub motors so this one might be vapor too.

Xist 08-31-2019 12:01 PM

"Next year!"--every year.

Frank Lee 08-31-2019 12:12 PM

With the proceeds from the aptera 1 scam dwindling, they had to let enough time elapse for the stench from that and elio to dissipate before rebooting.

aerohead 08-31-2019 01:10 PM

rebooting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 605772)
With the proceeds from the aptera 1 scam dwindling, they had to let enough time elapse for the stench from that and elio to dissipate before rebooting.

It's like fusion energy.It's always 30-years away,forever.

NeilBlanchard 08-31-2019 10:35 PM

This includes some of the history, and details about what is happening, now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uPkLT8wK98

Frank Lee 09-01-2019 05:02 AM

Stupid chassis can't handle high hp and speed. That was proven at x-prize, and it hasn't been improved.

Xist 09-01-2019 09:17 AM

Frank, Frank, Frank, Frank! These things only matter for cars that are actually produced!

So, when are they rebooting that Eel scam trike?

ME_Andy 09-01-2019 12:13 PM

They should have aimed for more low-hanging fruit, like a20 kWh battery should be plenty

oil pan 4 09-01-2019 03:50 PM

Scam trikes problem was they wanted to make every single little part in house, except for maybe the tires.

This reboot of the Aptera they just want hub motors that don't appear to exist.

sheepdog 44 09-01-2019 04:36 PM

Quote:

they expected larger, well-capitalized automakers to step in and pursue greater efficiencies in every aspect of EV design. “What astonishes me,” Anthony said, “is that none of them have yet taken up the challenge: How efficient can a car be?

The best attempt might have been the BMW i3, the Bavarian maker’s 2013 compact electric hatchback. With a body shell made of carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic, an aluminum rolling platform, an optional two-cylinder range-extending engine, and 112 to 129 km (70 to 80 miles) of range, the i3 ruled the energy-efficiency charts for a few years.
Was anyone else thrown for a loop in the first article reading this? Really, the BMW i3, king of energy efficiency?

freebeard 09-02-2019 12:22 AM

Depending on how you slice it, I'd say i3, Honda Insight or VW XL1.

It's good to see Aptera and Edison2 are still around, but that new Aptera could use a 6-8" drop in the front.

RustyLugNut 09-03-2019 12:03 PM

If the originators are running things, maybe they have a chance.
 
The inclusion of automotive "Experts" into the management team meant the vehicle would be hammered into a market hole it had little chance to fit into.

If they are smart, they could market the Aptera as a unique, bespoke vehicle to a limited, upscale market.

It's construction simplicity could also lend itself to a "kit".

The Aptera was started in my neck of the woods and I followed it's development with interest. It is an extreme design that is ideal for an electric commuter vehicle. It leaves room to degrade efficiency and gain in areas of performance and handling if people so desire. The inclusion of hub motors is an idea that may not have been practical a decade ago but is certainly feasible today even if you start out with much lower powered, off the shelf units.

NeilBlanchard 09-03-2019 12:25 PM

John Voelcker article on GCR:

1,000 Mile Electric Car Unveiled: Aptera Returns 10 Years Later

NeilBlanchard 09-03-2019 01:36 PM

This is the in-wheel motor that Aptera is working with:

https://in-wheel.com/

It includes a disk brake; and weighs 23kg.

freebeard 09-03-2019 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyLugNut
The Aptera was started in my neck of the woods and I followed it's development with interest. It is an extreme design that is ideal for an electric commuter vehicle.

Similarly the Arcimoto FUV is local to me. Both have a similar architecture, with the FUV oriented to urban use (ingress/egress) and the Aptera as a road-tripper (range).

oil pan 4 09-04-2019 08:11 PM

An 1,800lb vehicle with at least 300lb of that as dead unsprung weight. This is going to get interesting.
For the first time in history a vehicle sales line and disclaimer will be one in the same, stating something to the effect of "go wherever the road takes you" literally.
I think Ralph Nader wrote a book about this vehicle over 40 years ago.

NeilBlanchard 09-05-2019 11:20 AM

23kg x 3 = ~152.1 pounds including the brakes, which would be there anyway.

niky 09-05-2019 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 606113)
23kg x 3 = ~152.1 pounds including the brakes, which would be there anyway.

Last time I weighed wheels and tires, it was at 35-40 pounds per corner without the brakes... so yes, quite likely.

oil pan 4 09-05-2019 12:03 PM

So it's going to ride around with just the hubs bolted to the body?
No wheels, tires or other suspension?

First you said "hub plus brake disk", now it's "the brakes" which to me implies the whole wheel side of the brake system.
So which is it?

35 to 40lb is a good estimate.
My leaf aluminum wheels weigh about 20lb each. The tires are also right at 20 each.
I have heard the OEM steel leaf wheel weights over 25lb, but haven't attempted to verify.

So it's likely 23kg per hub and disk. Not including the wheel, tire, spindle, caliper, control arm or arms, strut or shock, spring, tie rods, track bar and the wheel covers.
It looks like the wheel covers are connected to the unsprung side of the suspension and not the body, just looking at the picture on the OP.

Now I'm thinking more like 400lb of unspring weight if it's made like a car instead of building it like an expensive race motorcycle sparing no expense for exotic materials.
But these hub motors alone weigh substantially more than a motorcycle wheel, tire, hub, spindle brake assy so it can't be made anything like a bike suspension.

Matthijs 09-13-2019 02:28 PM

I have to say I am very surprised about the reactions on the Aptera from the users of this forum. I was thinking people would understand the concept of this platform and why it is build the way it is. Aptera is the only manufacturer who follows efficiency as a philosophy to build vehicles. It should be one the most amazing vehicles here for people who read ecomodder. To all the people talking about scams should see Steve Fambro's old interview and read up about the history of Aptera. I think Steve would not even be able to run a scam if he wanted. He is to good of a person for that. Just listen to the interview: I can not post link yet. Its a re-uploaded interview.

I believe they will do everything they can to make it a succes. The new Apteraforum is up and running: Aptera dot us / forum

Xist 09-14-2019 10:00 AM

Found the Aptera shill!

Matthijs 09-14-2019 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 606654)
Found the Aptera shill!


an accomplice of a confidence trickster or swindler who poses as a genuine customer to entice or encourage others.

Ok thank you for that. You should change your signature.

thingstodo 09-14-2019 01:43 PM

While it is not practical as your only car, it looks and sounds like a good commuter. The claimed range must be a way to get clicks from blogs and news articles. It seems a bit excessive and I'd rather have the lower weight and lower cost of a pack that does 250 miles for this particular type of vehicle.

I would think that you would get a lot of attention. So if that's one of the things you seek, it should be OK.

+10 on the efficiency. If efficiency is your goal, this vehicle kinda competes with e-bikes .. and you stay out of the weather.

You'd likely need to budget extra time when going anywhere .. like on errands .. to answer questions from the crowd who gathered around it. This is not personal experience - it is mentioned frequently by many who have one-of conversions and other non-standard vehicles.

At low volumes .. assumed .. this model will be priced out of the range of most of us. More of a collector car for Jay Leno's garage?

oil pan 4 09-14-2019 06:54 PM

Its a novelty.
With 2 people in it is there even room for a few bags of groceries or a book bag?

I want to know how long those obseenly big hub motors are going to last and how it's going to handle with that ridiculous unsprung weight ratio?

thingstodo 09-14-2019 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 606687)
I want to know how long those obseenly big hub motors are going to last and how it's going to handle with that ridiculous unsprung weight ratio?

Hub motors are being talked about again. I hope the design issues have been figured out. They may not last as long as normal electric motors ... but for at least 3 sets of tires?

Unsprung weight is a bit above my mechanical understanding. I've read discussions and it appears that unsprung weight should be minimized ... but that's not what the aptera design appears to do

Xist 09-14-2019 07:36 PM

You are welcome.

freebeard 09-14-2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthijs EcoModding Lurker
Ok thank you for that. You should change your signature.

Third post from the Netherlands and you deserve better, thank you for pushing back. Lurk in The Lounge and you will understand that Xist has a hard, hard life. We put up with him because he is one of us.

I compare the Aptera to Arcimoto (NASDAQ:FUV) and Edison2, all three are alive and well (apparently). I'd be happy with any of them, moreso if they were amphibian.

Xist 09-14-2019 08:20 PM

Even more so if any of them actually created a car?

oil pan 4 09-14-2019 08:29 PM

As far as I can tell know one has put an appropriate hub motor on a car, driven it on the road in the real world and been able to wear out a set of tires on one with out having to pull the hub motor to replace bearings or replace the hub motor it's self.

For comparison the only drive line maintenance my leaf has had to wear out a set of tires is an oil change and it wasn't even required.

freebeard 09-15-2019 04:01 AM

Arcimoto uses two shafted motors.

And they make fire trucks...
https://www.arcimoto.com/wp-content/...vehicle-16.jpg
https://www.arcimoto.com/rapid-responder/

oil pan 4 09-15-2019 08:08 AM

If it's a 2 shafted motor then it's likely that the motor is connected to the hubs via CV shafts, therefore it's not a hub motor and eliminates all the problems associated with hub motors.

wdb 09-15-2019 10:26 AM

I watched the opening youtube video. Furry funding? Could be a match made in heaven.

freebeard 09-15-2019 12:43 PM

Quote:

If it's a 2 shafted motor then it's likely that the motor is connected to the hubs via CV shafts..
Two shafted motors, not a two-shafted motor; but yes.

oil pan 4 09-15-2019 04:17 PM

That thing probably weights as much as a lady's purse.

rmay635703 09-16-2019 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 605980)
This is the in-wheel motor that Aptera is working with:

https://in-wheel.com/

It includes a disk brake; and weighs 23kg.

Make them in 14”, with less HP and a lot cheaper and I will throw a set on the rear of my Insight

Matthijs 09-16-2019 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 606687)
Its a novelty.
With 2 people in it is there even room for a few bags of groceries or a book bag?

I want to know how long those obseenly big hub motors are going to last and how it's going to handle with that ridiculous unsprung weight ratio?

Aptera says the unnamed Aptera model formerly known as 2e can fit 8 golfbags ⛳ in the back and a surfboard. This because the Aptera is 4:40 in length.

The in-wheel motors are also a big unknown for me on the reliability front. It seems Lotus engineering after study found that the unsprung weight can be handled by suspension tweaking and tuning. But the people at Protean say that their motors should be good for 300000 km of use. That is not really comforting if your planning to use the Aptera for a long time.https://spectrum.ieee.org/transporta...more-efficient

Matthijs 09-16-2019 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xist (Post 606692)
You are welcome.

Lol well after I can post some links and you would be willing to watch some interview I think I can change your mind. After that you can change your signature back. Edit: Please watch this interview: https://youtu.be/a6HH1ssX7CA

Matthijs 09-16-2019 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 606693)
Third post from the Netherlands and you deserve better, thank you for pushing back. Lurk in The Lounge and you will understand that Xist has a hard, hard life. We put up with him because he is one of us.

I compare the Aptera to Arcimoto (NASDAQ:FUV) and Edison2, all three are alive and well (apparently). I'd be happy with any of them, moreso if they were amphibian.

I will read up. Thanks for the heads up. If the Edison2 would also incorporate some Jason Hill design into the VLC (they have a concept on the Design 11 website) it would be a great competitor of Aptera and great company.


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