Battery Hookup - used Li batteries very affordable
 

I've come across this website through my surfing the net and own personal interests. I did sign up to make us (ecomodder) an affiliate, but I am very interested in picking up some of their batteries to try them out.

Battery Hookup is a place that buys used batteries, capacity tests them, and then resells them for a fraction of the retail cost. I have not personally ordered from them yet, but I really am considering getting some to convert my battery riding lawn mower to lithium for not too much more than the price of lead acid batteries!

They don't have a gigantic selection. But, they are constantly getting new stuff, so check back in often if you're looking for something more specific.

Have any of you guys used them before? I'm finding myself thinking about what I could use their batteries for just because they are so stinking reasonably priced.

Their 8Ah pouch cells they currently have sound like they'd be an awesome replacement for my 2000 Honda Insight's weak battery pack. The price for the cells would only be $180! Nowhere close to what a replacement pack costs, and it upgrades to lithium. Crazy stuff possible and I really hope to see some cool projects come from this.

I'm gonna have to try this out. Them being a retailer should get past my school's rule against buying used equipment from individuals.
We are also building a lawn mower! lol
"Autonomous lawn mower"
Still in the prelim designs right now so we will see what the specifics are at the end of this semester.

Maybe they will get a bigger selection.
I have played with 18650 cells before and big prizmatic cells.
I prefer the big ones.

That's pretty inexpensive, and some pretty impressive specs to boot! One thing though is that they're LiPo versus LiFePO4, so they're at a higher risk of exploding unless properly managed.

Posted the link over on Insight Central to see what the lithium gurus on there think.

I would suggest you try to get the history of those cells. If they are from hybrid car batteries they usually take a big hit every time they are called on to help the car from stop signs, lights, etc.

I have been buying used Nissan leaf, Chevy Volt, Ford Cmax and a Hyundai hybrid pack to experiment with and then sell what I can so I can keep a few for myself and a buddy down here. All but the Hyundai were from Plug-in cars. All were certified to be under 30,000 miles odometer reading. We have hills/mountains here so, mileage is not something we keep track of.

We are using them for our homemade motorcycles and get great results.

For my house, I use A123 M1 round cells for most of our lighting, computer, tv and any necessary emergency such as when the commercial grid goes down, sometimes as often as 10-15 times a month for 10 minutes to over 2-3 hours. Very soon, I will be putting 10 of the Leaf modules together to power more of our stuff, without an inverter for now. Anything 12V or so will do fine, until I can get more electronic ways to split the pack as I reconfigure to 24V system.

I have a Dewalt "sawzall" type saw, 2 drill drivers, one impact driver, a few LED lights and will use the 12V DC for powering the metal lathe that I am currently working on, besides all the power tools I mentioned. All our lighting is LED, mostly 12V. ALL our flashlights use NiMh or Lithium batteries. The Dewalt drills and saw were all 18V and went bad, so, I built packs from 18650 cells as 5 Series 2 parallel and run the hell out of them for over 3 years, without any failures.

My buddy and I go without using a BMS system, due to the fact we are very vigilant in keeping track of voltages and individual groups of cells in every pack we use. We do NOT advise others to do what we do.

For a car starter battery, my Buddy built a pack of the A123M1 cells and has been using it for nearly 3 years.

There are good deals out there on hardly used cells IF you know how to wheel and deal. Just be VERY careful and get all the info you can before buying.

Have you thought about using salvage UPS equipment from computer places? Most use the hardware until the batteries fail, then buy new. I aquired a 10kw output inverter that runs on 48 volts input for free that way.

Jim made some good points over on the Insight Central thread.

Since those cells aren't LiFePO4 (the most stable lithium chemistry) you would absolutely need some sort of BMS (battery management system) to strictly control the batteries to avoid the risk of explosion.

LiFePO4 lithium cells are much more stable and explosion-resistant, and those who have converted their Insights to LiFePO4 aren't using a BMS.

A BMS is pretty expensive and would eat into the cost of the upgrade as well.

Their LiFePO4 cells aren't really that cheap compared to other sites.

Good analysis!

IMO a BMS is pretty much necessary for any chemistry. For my mower which is currently lead acid, it's a simple monitoring system to make sure I don't over-disharge any specific battery. It's not automated, but it is a BMS.

The lipo chemistry I agree would require a much more robust system for safety and battery life. However, lots of the OEMs are using a similar chemistry in their EVs due to the power and every density advantages over the other chemistries. I agree a BMS would add cost, but I also think (don't quote me on this) that there are more and more off the shelf systems you can get that will do what you need. I haven't looked into that yet to verify.

That sounds really cool, and also quite scary haha! I'd love to see pics if you get the chance.

You will still damage or destroy LiFePO4 cells if you overcharge them. My LiFePO4 packs have BMSs.

https://batteryhookup.com/collections/lithium-ion-assembled-battery-modules/products/10-pack-32-85v-2890mah-94-93wh-lithium-ion-batteries-with-bms-and-fire-proof-case-9s
Buying 2 sets of these 10 packs would be under $450 which was quite a bit less than the similar number of watt hours I bought for my Ebike build. I think my 52 volt 14 amp hour pack was like $550. These could be a 72 volt 24 amp hour battery for $450.

Agree, any battery system should have some sort of BMS, especially lithium, and especially non-LiFePO4 lithium chemistries. I mentioned that the lithium Insights don't use an active BMS because the owners carefully monitor voltage and usually have larger-than-OEM packs that don't get drained as much, so the packs don't spend much time near full or what would be worse, empty.

With LiFePO4 you could probably get away with LED balancing modules and some devices to control temperature based charge/discharge, etc, overvoltage/undervolt circuits, and homemade stuff that would suffice. For non-LiFePO4 I would want an actual BMS.

In the Formula SAE electric formula race car team I am on here at college, we are using regular lithium ion cells in addition to the Orion BMS - a ~$1000 unit. Obviously this is a wholly electric race car, so the power demands are much greater than an Insight or lawnmower would demand, so a Orion probably wouldn't be necessary, but a good BMS for a sensitive lithium chemistry probably isn't cheap.

In one way LiFePO4 is even more sensitive than other chemistries. The cell voltage is very strongly tied to the 3.2-3.4 Volt range and varies little between 1% and 99% charged. So you can't walk away for a minute while all cells charging at 3.4 Volts per cell; once full it jumps to over 4 Volt very rapidly, where the damaging takes place.

My BMS starts balancing at 3.65 Volt per cell and shuts down charging at 3.85 Volt.
Charging a pack of 12 Ah cells at 3A, there's just a few seconds in between.

A smart charger is definitely required for charging, for that very reason.

Lithium batteries can use coulomb meters to measure SOC more accurately (Lithium Insights use a more sophisticated device called OBDIIC&C). If you keep the SOC between 20% and 90% you should be fine and extend the life of the battery verses discharging/charging them to 0% and 100%.

SOC is fairly easy to measure on lithium batteries with a coulomb meter, versus lead acid where the voltage varies under load. Other lithium chemistries are much more sensitive to things like temperature and charge/discharge rates.

I completely agree. However, there seems to be more resources out there now to assemble 18650 cells into larger packs without fancy tools / welders.

These are the two that seem nice IMO.


Vruzend makes these interlocking pieces that can be assembled into whatever size and shape battery you want.

https://vruzend.com/

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1570658381



This guy sells these circuit boards that just pop in 18650 cells like most AA battery holders.

https://kit.com/jehu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YwErplHps8

The big ones I was looking at go together with copper bus bar, drill and bolts.
The 18650 Legos are cute.

This is actually a really neat idea. Bookmarked the link for any future lithium experiments I may do in the future (solar powered lithium assist to my Insight, anyone?)

It would be neat if they had some sort of solution for battery pouches too.

I agree larger cells are still nicer for larger packs. You never know what they'll have next week though as they get what is available and what they find. Just gotta keep an eye out. They very recently ran out of the red 8Ah Headway lifepo4 cells.

Edit: So of course I go look what they have and they do have the Headway cells back in stock

https://batteryhookup.com/collection...3223103.eac2d9

So 8 cells (4 in series, 2 in parallel) would provide 16ah and 400A max discharge current, down to -4 *F and charging as low as 14 *F and cost only $84. Adding the cost of a VRUZEND battery kit at $34.99 brings us to $118.99. Add in some sort of inexpensive LED balancing modules and that's one pretty cheap lithium battery!

Unfortunately the vruzend stuff is only for 18650 sized cells. The Headway cells are a much larger size.

The good news is the Headway batteries have screw terminals on the ends. So you can pretty easily make your own bus bars for them.

Ah, good point, I did not see that.

A 12v battery of 8 cells would be able to be regenned up to 160amps - if one could rig up an alternator or DC-DC converter capable of 160A@15V, that would be 2.4kW (3.2hp) of regenerative braking. That's about 30% of the regenerative capability of a stock Insight.

I need a 4 cell LiFePO4 bms.
When I built my batteries there were none available.

There are quite a few options available now from $15-$140 depending on current needs. A 45a charge, 80a discharge, 220a peak discharge 4S LiFePO4 BMS is around $45.

I will keep these guys in mind if I ever get around to building an e-bike battery... 32 cells would make a really nice 52V/16Ah pack that can provide 400A of current. 20kW burnouts on a road bike, anyone?

I am wondering if we could use one of those 27 cell packs as a 14.4V jumper battery pack. It comes in a nice case with a handle. So you could charge it indoors for people who don't have access to outdoor charging. You would just carry it to your car and plug it in the cigarette lighter and it would maintain the voltage so the alternator wouldn't kick in... They are only $15.

I think I'll start a thread on that.

Ha, my LiFePO4 60ah starting battery hits 450 amps cranking my diesel while heating the glow plugs.
Maybe I could figure out a way to bypass it for starting.

For those looking for something a bit bigger, they're selling Coda 2.5 kWh 22.4V battery packs...

2.5KWH CODA 24V LIFEPO4 BATTERY MODULE 22.4V 112AH 7S 4C

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1571107075


Well, at least they were until they sold out. But, they said...

Enginer Packs
 

Daox
What did you do with the cells from you Enginer Battery Packs?

Battery Hookup has their 8Ah pouch cells on sale for $4.50. They are normally $6 each. Crazy good deal. I am thinking about picking some up and I don't even have a project ready for them haha.

I ended up selling the whole kit to another EcoModder.

Here is another bigger batter option. It is 24V and ~4.5 kwh. The price seems high at $450, but that is $100/kwh. Lead acid is $80/kwh.

BYD battery

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1573242359

They got a new product in. A full 24kwh Nissan Leaf battery pack from Nissan. They are used, but the price is pretty reasonable at $1800 (plus $400 for shipping).

Nissan Leaf 24 kWh pack

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1574171143

$400 shipping for 1 or 50 of them too. That's a good deal but few people would buy more than one.

Saw that this morning. 13kwh usable of battery for $1799.

Scrapped lithium packs from the Leaf. Good deal except for the potential of half the kwh/cm^3 regarding space in application.

Scrapped for a reason? Too much of a risk IMO versus their other offerings.

is it possible to convert a old NIMH to lithium battery the peak discharge is 37.6kw and peak regeneration is 32KW (the motor is 60kw rated ) according to the EPA :eek:

the stock unit is very small you can only get a few miles when the pack was new.. .now maybe a few blocks

it was only 1.5 kWh when new so even 17kwh would be a huge upgrade


2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid/Payload
1,773 to 1,830 lbs.. not like it would change anything (so i could only carry 5 fat people instead of 8) lol

Cell Tower Batteries
 

My wife's former coworker made an electric MG using retired cell phone tower batteries. Supposedly they have a very easy life and are traded out every two years out of an abundance of caution. I don't know where he got them but I thought the story line was good.

I'm sure it is, but I'm also sure its probably a ton of work to do it. The electronics side is the tricky thing unless you're a wiz at that.

For those who dont want an entire Leaf battery pack they are now also offering individual cells. These are very nice in that it's pretty easy to bolt them together with the terminals they have.

Nissan Leaf battery cells

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1574776960

could i just run it paired [parallel ]with the current battery


we could just siphon juice from the other battery..;)

Let me know if they get a 62kwh leaf battery.

No that wont work most are limited to 10amp or 15amp fuse you will pop it on the spot the max possible 20amp with #10 wire