The better car?
 

Hi guys, long time lurker/partial ecomodder. I currently drive a 92 Ford Festiva GL Sport, 5 speed, air con, no power steering ect. Now I drive 98% city and that 2% HWY. That 2% HWY is usually to the Walmart run because I cant stand the local Walmart. Ive noticed that hypermiling this little car i got the very best of 39.5 mpg. But driving around town and driving normal (not flooring it or anything) I'm getting a consistent 28 mpg. My question is, I've been considering a Civic VX or a Civic HX. I see all the time people say, 40 mpg normal city driving all the time. Is this really true? I know my Festiva weighs 1700 lbs but I also know about the vtec-e engines which improve economy. Should i look at selling my Festiva to buy a VX or HX? If so which of the 2 is better? I like the practicality of hatchbacks which is why I own a Festiva so not really into the coupe HX but if the real world mpg is that much better I would do it. Also, why is it that in normal driving I cant crack 30 mpg? Car has 72k original miles, new plugs, stock 12 inch alloys with 45psi inflated tires, top and bottom grill blocks, and i hardly ever pass 2,500 rpm.... You guys are the experts so I want to hear what you guys say. Thanks in advanced and hope to hear from ya soon! :thumbup:

The main advantages of the VX and HX are that they have lean burn and tall gearing, which help a ton on the highway. Most Hondas with small engines can get 40+ in town, but these are 50+ or even 60+ cars on the highway.

To figure out why you can't get better economy, you need to consider where all of that energy is going. When you're rolling down the road, your engine can convert gasoline into usable mechanical energy at a certain efficiency, and the rest is lost as heat. Your drivetrain will turn a certain amount into heat as friction. Your brakes will turn some into heat as friction. Your tires will turn some into heat. Air resistance will turn forward motion into kinetic energy in the form of turbulence.

Mostly, you can get your economy up by reducing tire drag (low rolling resistance, high pressure), improving aero for highway speed driving (grille block, belly pan), reduce weight for city driving (takes less energy to get it up to speed, which you'll eventually waste in the form of heat in your brakes), and consider your routes very carefully so you're not having to accelerate and brake a lot.

Extended idling also takes its toll.

Ah, I see. My thing is, i hardly ever do HWY driving. Once a month maybe. Whats silly is, on the festiva forums guys are saying they get 30 mpg in their 1.8 dohc swap and im running a measly 1.3 with relatively low miles and cant crack 30 mpg. Car runs great, tight as a drum, like a top, and still even with easy driving 28 mpg is all i get. With engine off coasting and such and I can get passed the 30 mpg but why is it that others dont have to go to that extent and still get better mpg than me? I owened a 92 civic LX that was stock but had an HX trans and i think it was horrible. I did all city driving with it and could only manage 18 mpg with it. Tune up was fresh, o2 sensors ect. I think its the fact that my drive to work is 10 mins and back. So the car doesnt warm up enough and still runs in closed loop. Now I have also considered the fact that maybe vtec-e wont help me either because vtec-e engines need to warm up before running into lean mode from what i remember. Im in a bit of a pickle here...

Btw, I calculate my mpg by how many miles driven divided by the galons it took to fill the tank up. No gadgetry here to tell instant mpg. That imho is what i consider real world mpg.

10 minute trips in the city!
That's what my I10 does too, in the hands of my caring but not very ecodriving minded wife.
Anything beyond 30 mpg is sheer utopia.

Seems that the problem is the short trips, not the car.


Is it carburated?

+1!

willie, do you have a block heater for your car? Having one of those warm up your engine every morning might help a lot with those short trips.

P.S. This may not be super-relevant, but what oil viscosity are you using? You may be able to get away with something that is thinner than spec just because you're almost never getting it up to operating temperature anyway.

Fuel injection. And yes i think that might be my issue...

Hmmm.. interesting idea. Haven't thought about a block heater... hmm... and 10w-40. I think that is too thick as well now that you mentioned that. What shouod I run? 0w-20?

10W40, oh god. :D

I did a little Googling, and 5W30 is what Ford recommended for your car: http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...adPdf?id=44867

Since you say the car is still in really good running shape, I'd put in something no thicker than 5W30 at the next change, and maybe even thinner. (My Subaru manual calls for 5W30 and I use 0W30 for its better flow at cold temperatures.)

Short trips are probably your main problem. Your city driving is potentially a huge problem as well. City driving can mean just about anything, so it's difficult to compare one person's city MPG to another's.

Unless you could sell your Festiva for more than you pay for a Civic, you'll probably never make up the cost of switching vehicles. MPG gains would likely be low and it sounds like you don't do a whole lot of driving.

Nice! Good to know. I do have a little piston slap uppon start up that last a second but thats about it. I think i should do that, change to 5w-30. Now where can i find a good block heater? I dont even really know how they work besides they warm up the engine lol. Please excuse my ignorance lol

And thats why Im here asking because you guys know much more than I when it comes to this stuff.

I'd use 0w30.

Block heaters usually screw into your coolant drain plug and have a heating element in them. The are also oil pan heaters you can slap on the bottom of your oil pan.

I didn't have the crappy commute you must have, but eventually I was averaging way over 50 mpg in my old 1993 Festiva-L. I had a blast driving Black Widow, and it was super easy to work on and hypermile in.
That's super-low mpg for that car, maybe your timing belt slipped a tooth. Mine did that and ran a tiny bit funky (almost unnoticeable) but it killed my mpg. As soon as I re-timed it the mpg shot back up.

This one says it's compatible with a 1992 Festiva: https://www.carid.com/kats-heaters/f...mpn-11411.html :thumbup:

If you're going to change vehicles to get better gas mileage, you'd probably do a lot better buying a hybrid...considering what kind of driving you do. Prius or first gen insight...or maybe the earlier civic hybrid.

Or better yet, buy a Leaf.

Sticking with your vehicle...pumped up tires, grill block, 195f thermostat if it doesn't have one...block heater if you're in a cold enough environment. Or park it in an enclosed/slightly warmer garage. Oh and if you haven't already, tailor your driving style to minimize braking and accelerating. Make sure you have the lightest wheels/tires on it as reasonably possible.

And make sure your car is in tip-top running shape. Advance timing if possible without causing pinging. Put on a warm/hot air intake. If you want to continue from there, it's aero mods and/or more complex work.

Hmmm! That sounds like something i would definitely try!

I'll have to see, the cam belt was last serviced a few years agoa long with new water pump and thermostat. It does ping when my foot goes past 1/4 throttle in any gear at any speed which i find rather odd...

I'll most definitely look into buying that! Looks like it plugs in? Instead of screwing in? Hmm

I've looked into those. Quite pricey in my area and cant really justify spending 4k plus on one which is the going rate in my area. For that amount of money id rather buy an mk4 tdi jetta. Good mpg with luxury and comfort. But that also is something i cant really justify buying. Good cars dont get me wrong, just too much for me to spend at the moment.

True. I love this Festiva its quirky and fun to drive. Im just weighing my options. But as stated above, my main issue apears to be my short commute.

There are a couple different styles from what I've gathered. Never installed one myself (the one on my Subaru was either stock, or installed by a PO), but there are some decent YouTube videos out there. No shame in having it installed by a trusted shop if you aren't sure about doing it yourself. :thumbup:

Oh no, im very mechanicaly enclined. Just never really looked into this sorta thing. Always liked things that make cars faster but never anything to make a car run more efficient as far as fuel consumption goes lol. But yes, indeed i will look at all this tonight once home from work.

On my Insight, I just used a socket wrench and pulled the coolant drain plug, then quickly stuck the block heater into the hole and tightened it down. I got some warm coolant on my hands but not much. The biggest risk with one of these is that you'd get bubbles in your coolant system and would need to burp it.

Good to know. So basically any location where there os coolant is good to plug a heater into? Is this correct?

Mine was threaded to fit the hole, there was only one place to put it. Can't speak for your engine.

Cool, good to know. Ill be doing my homework tonight.

Well then...stuff a little Kubota Diesel engine under the hood instead. On an electric motor. :D

Nah, not for me haha. Cool idea but not my cup of tea haha.

Maybe lengthen your route and double your mileage...I have owned 4 of these very fun cars and its big brother the aspire!!!

I was just now thinking that believe it or not. Instead of taking 10 minutes city maybe make it 10 minutes hwy and see what happens... interesting idea!

Btw, did you ever install a block heater into one of these festivas? If so where is the location for it on the block? Thanks!

Might be good for getting your MPG average up, but not for saving gas! :D

True... im telling ya guys im in a pickle lol

If you're only driving 10 minutes in the city, what distance is that? Biking/walking distance, perhaps? Maybe the problem is that you're driving it at all. ;)

3 miles each way. Now i must add, this is usually the case. But maybe once or twice a week i do more driving around town.

Just wanted to thank everybody who gave their input! Just in case I fall asleep and forget about it haha. I'm looking into all of these things as we speak. I truly do love my super clean Festiva. Just started to wonder other more economical options. But if I can save this one and get her past 30 mpg AT LEAST in normal everyday to day driving I'll be extremely happy.

Now... I usually drive this thing till it has about a gallon of fuel left, this a 10 gallon tank. Now follow me here... Im getting about 260 miles per tank which leaves me at 28.55 mpg or so. If i jump to AT LEAST 300 miles per 9 gallons of fuel, that leaves me at 33.33 mpg. I want AT LEAST that on every tank of normal driving. Do you guys think that a 400w block heater like the one stated earlier, keep my tires inflated to 45 psi, change my oil to 0w-30 and check my timing on the little B3 engine get me this? Obviously my driving style has lots to do with what mpg figures I get but do you guys think if you where in my shoes could you achieve this? Thanks again guys and again please excuse my ignorance if there was any here lol

0W30 definitely.
The W30 part does not matter as you never reach the temperature for that viscosity level.
FWIW you could run 0W20 if you avoid long runs in hot conditions.

\o/ Your engine bay should look like this:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3455/...cbd0f34d03.jpg