Bonneville 2012 or Bust
 

Recent events have presented themselves in such a manner as to facilitate me going to Bonneville Salt Flats next year, Sept 8-11. Not Aerohead's kind and generous offer to help funding the trip, but the timing of events occurring around me and my family are allowing me to take on a huge challenge like this. This last summer had me recovering from reconstructive surgery on my left ankle, and missing any trips I would have gone on. Hopefully next summer, all will be well.

The OBJECTIVE;
Associating road mileage performance with top speed performance, meeting up with fellow Ecomodders on the trip, getting the best mileage possible on the trip( shooting for 70 plus mpg, joining the 130mph club, and most important of all, having an adventure of a lifetime.

The EVENT;
USFRA World of Speed. Sept 8-11, 2012

The VEHICLE;
The newly renamed "Franken-Jetta". Since I've recently purchased a 1.6 litre diesel engine(normally aspirated), I can proceed with the WVOil mod I've had on the back burner for over a decade. As the rules do not allow or disallow the use of WVO on the run( as I read it anyway), I will be getting info about that later.

The CREW;
My son and I. All others are welcome to come along, make meeting points before and/or after the salt. As in keeping with Bennelson's plan for an event next summer, this will be videoed when possible in case of a connection to his event. Aerohead missed running in 2011, so I'm pretty sure he will be redoubling his efforts in 2012. Others have expressed interest, Redyaris, Brucepic,... all are involved whether going or not. Good wishes and encouragement are always appreciated.:thumbup:

Sounds fun! I'm honestly not sure where I'll be after graduation in May but it would be fun to meet you and the car on the way through.

What is the stock top speed? I've gotten my Mk1 up to 86.

I will put this on my calender! The EVENT; USFRA World of Speed. Sept 8-11, 2012 at Bonneville Salt Flats Utah. An update on my proposed FE run, make it 4 laps of a 25 mile road course alternating Clock wise and counter clock wise. 2 hours to finnish and variouse other simple rules that are easy to inforce and fun. The two that I can think of are time and weight... total weight for motorcycles and left or right side 2 wheels of 4 wheeled car.;)

For the Mk 2 diesel Jetta(NA) the top speed is 92mph according to my research, so far. I'm sure this is aerodynamically limited as I've found the top RPM is 5000rpm, and according to Gear Up! if I use 185/70r14 tires, the final drive out of my AUG code transmission and the .75 5th gear from the diesels ACH code trans, 130 mph happens at 4970 rpm. If I keep the gas engine, 6100 rpm, top speed gearing is 155 mph. As I am more concerned with mpg than mph, I'll take what I can on the Salt and be more concerned with driveability and keeping the overall height of the car to the template height that I am building it to(54.5 inches). I do need to use 130mph rated tires for the run, and 65 series tires are easier to come by than 70 series at that rating. Bridgestone Ecopia EP100s at 175/65r14 are the same height as the 185/60r14 original size for my car, and IIRC, are also LRR tires.

My options in order of liklyhoud are
1 Suzuki GS500, aeromodded, top speed est. 190km/h [118 mph]
2 Toyota Yaris, aeromodded, top speed est. 185km/hr [115 mph] governed max
3 Honda VT500, aeromodded, top speed est. 175km/h [109 mph] shaft drive
As I am not that interested in going much faster than 200km/hr on the motorcycles I will not be doing anything to make them faster. the Yaris with its short wheel base is not the car to be going over 210km/h [130 mph] without doing something to improve directional stability.
My question to anyone who has been there, is riding on the salt flats anything like riding on gravel in that a bike tends to weave when riding on gravel roads?

Sounds like a fun trip for sure! Combining MPG with speed sounds like a fun challenge for sure and the chance to get out on the salt would be a chance of a lifetime for me at least.
Matt

USFRA says that there is no camping on the Salt but free camping is allowed at the Bend in the Road Campground. One of the hotels that they list on their home page is already full for that weekend. I am building my car to sleep in the back end, so I'll be shooting for the campground.

I've emailed them for clarification about reservations, using WVO for fuel and timing for the membership application.

This week, I'll be looking to tear into the donor car for the impending engine swap;
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1321928388

I'd love to bring my car down and give it a shot but I don't have H speed rated tires.
Maybe another year.

It's in September. Maybe you'll need a new set of tires before then:D.

It looks like a 2 day trip from here, first day will get me to Dillon MT the second day should get me to Wendover UT. I am looking into where to stay motel or camping, It looks like a very buisy week.

I sure hope not. Just got tires 20k miles ago.

Couple answers.

The campground is "first come, first there." Guess I'll be there. We should try to snag an area together.

Memberships can be purchased anytime beforehand. Once everything is set, after the New Year, I'll be sending in mine.

Still waiting for word about the WVO.

Cool.

I'm (slowly) building a car to race there. I/GC class.

For land speed racing specific questions (like what it's like to ride on the salt), the forums at Landracing.com are excellent. Many of the event organizers post there regularly too.

Issue: Substitute for EVENT DIESEL FUEL

2.B FUELS:
EVENT DIESEL FUEL:

If the Contest Board establishes an EVENT diesel fuel, that fuel shall be used. USDA designated Food Grade Vegetable oil from a sealed container may be substituted for, or used in combination with EVENT diesel fuel.

Just curious- what kind of tech inspection do they have and how much will it cost to run for a non-member? Cost of spectating? Thanks :)

That change applies to the SCTA-BNI Diesel classes.

Jethro is trying for the 130mph class which has it's own set of abbreviated rules. This class is intended to make it easy for people to get started in racing. However, it is a little ambiguous on what fuels are allowed:

"Only gasoline, diesel, electric, fuels may be used - NO nitrous, alcohol or nitro-fueled vehicles will be allowed."

I would guess veggie squeezing's would be fine, but I'd ask first.

130mph club is currently $175. This includes a membership fee.

Spectator's guide. $15/day or $40/week for SpeedWeek. Not sure if WoS is cheaper.

Spot on, darcane. I figured that would be the easiest and cheapest way to get a time slip in and to build for. With a top speed reading, magical math numbers can tell what the Cd of the car is. I'm not sure if I am going to have to Dyno the car for that or not. Would be good to get as much info as possible, I guess.

I got the Official response from Ellen Wilkinson of the Usfra
:thumbup:

Sven7- Just got word, to run you must be a member($40 as darcane said for the whole World of Speed(WOS)), kids under 12 are free, and a spectator/pit pass for additional adults are at "a reduced rate".

The Usfra home page is pretty good with info. I've asked a couple questions about the paperwork and the answers I've posted here. Quick and friendly responses all.

I am REALLY looking forward to making this trip:D. I'd like to visit with other ecomodders on the way, take some pics, tell some lies, collect others going to Bonneville(as in follow someone who has been there before at the end:cool:), basically, I'm looking to start planning the route. I could take the obvious route of Southwest from here to I-80 and head West, or see more of the country and wander around a bit. I'll probably be ready to hightail it straight home afterwards, but I think a good "Road Trip" is in order. Tentative departure is the Sunday before WOS(Sep. 2). This should allow ample travel time with a not-so-intense pace. As this is an MPG based trip, 55-60 mph travel speed( except down hill, of course:D) on the Highways?

Side note; my soon-to-be 17 year old Son has decided that he doesn't want to spend all his free time with his Dad( I'm so proud) so has opted out of the trip, leaving the passenger seat open. I'm taking applications for co-pilot/navigator/morale officer/... Female applicants, please PM me here:thumbup:, male applicants,... um... somewhere else... over there:rolleyes:.

Also, should this be moved to "events and Meet-ups"?

I'm about 15 minutes south of exit 96 of the 80/90 Indiana Toll Road. You're welcome to pitch a tent in the backyard. Maybe some of the guys from mid/lower Michigan could come down, too.

jethrobodine
As September is quit far away I entertain more options in my thoughts than is reasonable. I have desided to make a full dustbin fairing for the Honda VT500, which I will be taking to the Vetter Challenge in Carmel in May. If this goes well I will take it to Bonneville in september. The other option is a full dustbin fairing for my 1988 Honda CBR 600, which could get me into the 150 mph club but I'm not that speed obsessed as I used to be in my youth.

Tango Charlie- Sounds good. I've got you at around 800 miles from here. I think WeatherSpotter is a bit North of you, but around the same ( large-ish) area.

How about some suggestions on car to car communication. Cell phones are ok for person to person, but I'm thinking that a little chatter might keep people sharp on longer stretches and help coordinate needed stops. CB radios aren't very expensive, but I've always found them a bit fuzzy( probably my hearing as much as anything else:o). Anyone know of any decent sounding radios that could be used?

Red- I agree totally. All plans are subject to change, especially at this early stage. As time gets closer to September, then we will have to start throwing around the "C" word( "Commitment" , not the other one:D).

Moving right along
 

Got the diesel engine and tranny out today.
http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1322943803

Almost ready to come out.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1322943815

If you ain't bleedin', you ain't tryin'.

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1322943856

Out and ready for the rebuild.

My tranny has a lower final drive, but his one has a lower 5th gear. I'll be taking this one apart for a 5th swap. Engine will get new rings and bearings, cam and valve check(maybe head rebuild), timing belt and tensioner, water pump, glow plug check, new block heater, and most importantly, high mpg paint:D.

With the diesel in place and the WVO tank, I can be part of bennelson's "Not1Drop" event:thumbup:. C'mon Ben, you don't even have a vehicle:p( are we competing, yet?:o).

I have been on Bowling's Aerodynamic & Rolling Horsepower Computation.com website to see what it would take to become a member of the 150 mph club. My 1988 Honda CBR is aledged to get 85 bhp at the rear wheel. So with a home made dustbin fairing with a frontal area of 7 sq ft and a Cd of 0.40 it would need 80 bhp to go 156mph on the salt. The same bike at 100 mph would need 22 bhp and at 70 mph it would need 7 bhp. So for me the challenge is can I ride the bike to Bonneville at 70mph on the interstate, getting close to 100mpg over a 2000 mile ronnd trip, then run at 156mph on the salt then ride home at 70mph on the interstate getting close to 100mpg?

Red- You have the link to that calculator? If the diesel swap for my car doesn't happen( for whatever reason), the math says that my car will easily top out over 150mph( with the 5th swap), but Hp/Cd will be the deciding factors( one of the questions that would be answered in the real world on the Salt).

The Bowling's Aerodynamic & Rolling Horsepower Computation calculator is an awesome tool(toy). I put in my cars' frontal area, weight, 130mph for the speed, and got 57hp required at Cd 0f .18 and 60hp for .19. The 1.6 diesel I have had 59hp when new. I guess this will be a good match up to see where I am when September rolls around.

I got the 5th gears and fork out of the ACH(diesel) trans, and am going to try to swap them out tomorrow night after work into the AUG(gasser) trans, dropping from .89 to .75 in 5th.

JethroB...
You seem to have found the website and made the link, thanks I would have taken some time to do that. I will be very surprised if your Cd is as low as 0.19, the salt will tell all. I will be very interested is seeing what kind of mpg you can get on the interstate at 70mph on your way to Bonneville.

Red- Yeah, I don't think it's that low either. That was as low as I had to go with the hp of the engine I'm putting in. I'm hoping to follow the example of the first gen Top Gear US crew and get 70+ mpg on the trip( I don't think I'll make the 7 seconds to 60).

156
 

I've seen guys ride in on a bone stock sport bike,run 186 mph,then ride home.Don't know about mpg.Seems like 42 mpg was mentioned.

You guys up North have my sympathy when it comes to rust issues.
Here are my 99 Maxima and my 92 truck engine compartments.

regards
Mech

Aerohead
I suspect those are 1000cc sport bikes with close to 200hp, the modern version of my CBR600 get 125bhp and without some aero improvements would be hard pressed to go much past 160mph. they also have a Cd in the nabourhood of 0.7 or more. and in the crouched riding position would have a Frontal area around 6 sq ft.
In my youth I would consider that 186 mph as high performance, now a days unless it can also get close to 100 mpg at 70 mph on the interstate it just doesn't cut it.:D

Mech- Those are what we call "Show Room" quality engine compartments up here:thumbup:. The one I got is more like "all right" or "OK":rolleyes:. The car itself would be saveable if I didn't already have TMFP( Too Many Projects:D).

dustbin fairing
 

It will be interesting to see what the Vetteresque aero mods do to the Honda.
Really looking forward to all of it.:)

Hope to see you at Bonneville in September, when "cheap talk" hits the salt.

Progress
Just swapped the 5th gear in my transmission and made the run from my work to my house. Previously, with the stock .89 5th gear, 2500rpm=50mph and on level ground with present snow tires, DWL got around 1.3gph(still 50mph). With the new .75 gear, 2500rpm=60mph, and 1.0gph(at 50mph):thumbup:. I wanted to get this done in time to work out any bugs before an upcoming 600+mile trip and to get it ready for the diesel swap.

bonneville is a blast. HIGHLY recommended for anyone interested in cars.
We have always gone during the first weekend of August, but if a bunch of folks will be back, I'll go back.
I think it would be a blast to do a MPG competition there on the salt. Fair warning - the salt is different then asphalt, and the salt for sure changes year to year.
As for camping, they never run out of room. There is like 20 square miles of space to camp out in. Most of us just sleep under the stars, or possibly a tent. It never rains there, it never gets cold in the summer.
You probably want to get off the salt with a folding cot or something though.
The gas station down the road has showers you can use - highly recommended.

Also, use lots of sunburn lotion on every spot. Even up your short legs - sun reflects off the salt and burns interesting places.
doug

The more the merrier:D. It will be good to have some experienced Salty Dogs there with us virgins;).

As to the mpg race, mostly it will be on the trip there and home again. My trip will be about 5000 miles round trip, and in conjunction with bennelson's "Not1drop" event, I'll be trying to use only biodiesel and Veggie oil for the whole trip.

I've looked at Google maps and there isn't really a "loop", as such, that isn't HUGE. Know of any that aren't on the maps?

This is such a cool mod. I plan something similar, swapping for a taller final driven gear. Very nice. I really want to make the Bonneville trip too. I'll keep it in mind and follow this thread. Useful anticipation to inspire modding activity between now and then.

For the VW trannies, I already have the desirable final drive, but the wrong 5th(until now). For the full swap, I could change the third and fourth from the diesel's trans, or like you're planning, swap the gasser final drive into the diesel tranny, but I think I can do better keeping my 1-4 shifts where they are when I'm not on the highway, and having the long legs when I am on the highway.

I hope you do come. Trips like this take a LOT of planning and preparation, and I think I might have just enough time to get everything, including myself, ready for this by September.

I am working on my 1997 Aerostar AWD Minivan replacing the transmission so that I can haul the Honda CBR600 to a friends place where it will be converted into a ...real Motorcycle... I am going to see what I can do without any compound curves, on the full dustbin fairing and full boat tail. I have used the Aerodynamic & rolling resistance, power & MPG calculator to estimat what the performance will be, this calculater seems to yeald lower horse power estimats than the other one I found on the web. The MPG estimate says I will need 4.31 hp, and should get 152.58 mpg or 1.54 L/100 km at 70 mph [Cd 0.3, Area 5 sq ft, wt 550lbs] ??? we shall see. I suspect I will not be able to run the engine slow enough to only develope 4.3 hp at 70 mph. If my Suzuki GS500 is anything to go by I will be hard pressed to run below 3000rpm in top gear [6th gear] on the high way. The calculator estimates that I could get 99.8 mpg at 90 mph! requirering only 8.5 hp!:confused::cool: