Car conversion to 3 wheels
 

Hi ecomodders,
I just joined this website/forum.
I found it while searching the net for pictures/designs of a car converted to a 3 wheeler.
My idea for an ecomod is to use the front end of a fwd car (2 front wheels, engine and all) up to the steering wheel and chop off the back part and connect a roll bar cage for side by side seating and one wheel in the back.
The shape of the cage would be tapered for aerodynamics and can be covered with fabric (like that used for convertibles) or molded plastic or fiberglass.
But the main idea is to reduce the weight of the car by maybe around 40% (or more) and improve the aerodynamics.
A lot of the parts from the chopped off part can be reused in the conversion such as seats, lights, rear wheel, brakes, windows etc.
Safety should be somewhere between a car and a motorcycle, and might be equal to a car's if you factor in agility, braking distance and the rollbars.
I think performance would be in the sports car level.
This can vehicle can then be registered as a motorcycle.
What do you think ecomodders ?
MoD

might be worth a try, we are open to seeing pictures of most any car mod, or planed mods.

I guess its kinda hard to imagine so a drawing is a good start if I need to solicit advice.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Eric

I believe you are on the right track with the wheel layout. Anyone who has tried to turn a 3 wheeler with one up front and two in the back at high speeds quickly finds out what a dynamic disaster they are! (How companies are even allowed to sell them with the one front wheel configuration is beyond me, it's unbelievably unsafe...)

The only issue I have with front wheel drive is that unless you plan on creating downforce in the rear for high speed driving, front wheel drive will essentially leave you floating on high powered casters up front, which isn't really very safe.

In my search for vehicle dynamic heaven, two wheels up front and one in the back, plus rear wheel drive seems to be the stairway. ;)

Suspension and weight transfer issues are still bothering me, but we aren't trying to pull 2 lateral G's.

I know a lot of people on the forum equate downforce and drag, but lift causes drag too, so if I had to choose, I'd go with downforce (more tire grip -> better handling -> not flying off the road from a 40 mph crosswind).

If you're really going to move forward with this, I would be happy to assist you in your design! When reducing the weight of the car by such a large amount, you're going to need completely new spring rates, maybe even new damping (shock absorbing) rates, a new suspension design for the rear wheel so you don't break your back, and a bajillion other things. Well, need is my opinion, but I try to design things I can't kill myself in. ;)

Are you related to Hermie?

I don't believe I am related to anyone named Hermie. Sorry to disappoint you.
My great uncle designed the vector thrust control system for the Challenger space shuttle, worked for NASA for 33 years, then they had to call him back because they found one of his valves in a field in Kansas and asked him how it worked so well and how he designed it. :P
That's about all I've got that's noteworthy in my family from an engineering standpoint.

Oh. Hermie believed in cars taking flight too.

I like tandem seating for such trikes. You can lower the frontal area substantially, a teardrop shape without a long rear overhang is possible, and as a motorcycle, a more easily made plastic (versus glass) windshield can be used. The longer resulting wheelbase alleviates the weight transfer off the rear wheel under braking.

Max,
Hadn't thought of the spring rates, damping issue yet, but did worry about the traction of the rear wheel.
That is also why I'm planning to install a "very" big and wide wheel at the rear for my project, to increase traction and add to the "cool" factor.

Of course, safety is the number one concern, especially since if this works out, I might even do a business out of it.
Buy a wreck with a working front end for $500, chop off the back, put in the cage, seats and rear wheel, attach all the connections such as brakes, steering wheel, electronic wires, etc and viola sell it for $7000.
Should be worth it for a safe, economical, and fun to drive trike, right ?

I am still in the idea stage but I could definitely use the "brain" of an engineer since I'm just an I.T. guy who does mechanical and welding stuff as a hobby. Doing it with somebody also adds to the fun instead of just doing by yourself. So yes I'll let you know when I start the project.

Maybe we start now....how do you think the suspension for the rear should be...I think a swing arm is the only option like a motorcycle rear suspension ?
Eric

I did consider tandem seating since it is the more "aerodynamic" option but when I factor in commercial appeal, the side by side seating is preferred, I think.
The existing steering wheel is also on the left side so moving it dead center would need a lot more parts than just moving it slightly to the center.
Eric

With tandem seating you don't have to move the driver that far towards the center if you have the rear passenger sitting more in the center line, this would give the passenger more leg room without making the car much longer but it would cut the frontal area down quite a bit.

Either way, I like the idea of using the factory doors because doors are a pain to build, you can of course chop and pull the rear of the doors in a bit if you want, but you also need to look at what the ideal taper is.
I also like the idea of making the body out of bass wood or spruce and cover it with fiber glass, it's a really strong way to make a structure and easy to work with because you can cut and glue the wood to the ideal shape before the fiber glass cloth goes on.

Eric, you're thinking more like an engineer than you give yourself credit for :)
-> Considering your market
-> Ease of construction (for time, design, feasibility, and monetary reasons)
-> Keeping cost down and price reasonable a DIY project moneymaking potential

As far as safety goes, pretty much all passenger vehicles from the past 40 odd years are designed to understeer, so that when a driver makes a mistake, it is likely that the car will end up hitting something head on, fully utilizing the crush zone. Front end collisions are safer than any other because car companies have designed their cars to work in this way. This is a response to America's complete lack of required driver training.

Food for thought:

The VW
http://stblogs.automotive.com/files/...24-623x395.jpg

The Morgan
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....-3-wheeler.jpg
http://blurppy.files.wordpress.com/2...1321871987.jpg

The Aptera
http://the.inevitable.org/anism/wp-c.../04/aptera.jpg

I approve of all of these designs, and read all of the articles about them as soon as they came out. :P

Nice pics Max!
I really like the VW one. Got my heart pumping.
I am actually suprised that I have not seen any pic out there in the 'net' that is close to what I'm envisioning.
I have not seen one chopped off front end of a car with the back converted to one wheel.
Surely somebody has done it before but maybe hasn't posted it in the internet (?).
Now the problem is the inertia of starting a big project.
Money is not a problem (yet), the tools are there, the garage is clear and ready, next step is to buy a running clunker.
Eric

Not bad ideas, Ryland.
I'm not planning to use the donor car doors, though, since they are pretty heavy.
I'm trying to go really light and roll cage or fiberglass are good options for the rear body.
Roll cage for me seems safer, but, unless covered with something, makes the passenger exposed to the elements. The fiberglass option will let you do an enclosed passenger body, though, not as crash proof as roll cage.
Decisions..decisions...

Fiberglass will not protect you enough. Rollcage will if you know how to build one. =P
A carbon fiber rear end would protect you enough. #expensivebutworthit

Fiberglass won't protect him from what?

Seems to work for Corvettes... without roll cages even. :eek:

Fiberglass won't protect him from any sort of accident at highway speeds.

He better get a Yuckon then.

There needs to be some sort of structure equivalent to a metal frame. What are safe racecars build out of? Metal and Carbon Fiber.
However, he could be well off with a minimal metal frame, and composite shell.
From my experience, the most effective type of frame is a hybrid of composite monocoque, and metal structure. By replacing bracing (diagonal tubes) with composite panels of equal or greater strength (carbon fiber), you actually achieve a stiffer, stronger frame than either straight metal or straight composite.

food for thought:

The Blackjack ZERO
http://i.imgur.com/xZNBX.jpg

XR3 Hybrid Personal Transit Vehicle: A 125 mpg Plug-In Hybrid Three Wheeler You Build From Plans
http://i.imgur.com/O4kqy.jpg

protective monocoque:
AutoSpeed - Building an Ultra Light-Weight Car, Part 1

AutoSpeed - Building an Ultra Light-Weight Car, Part 2

One thing you might really want to consider is fabricating a hinge to make the door open up suicide style. The car/motorcycle will probably be low to the ground (should be due to how weight transfers side to side) so I bet it would be way easier to get out with a suicide door. Wouldn't have to twist around in what could be a tight fit in the cabin.

Hope someone still on this. I been think about the same thing using a VW dti beetle for a good mpg start and easy body mod. Just shave the 2 rear wheel well fender connect a R.QRiley xr3 rear wheel system. Minimum modification. What you think. Also will I be able to registry it as a bike? Since it was register as a car b4 , buy I live in California.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...cc5cde86-b.jpg

What's a "VW dti beetle"?

I mean the Volkswagen beetle TDI turbo diesel. Its a fwd with x3 rear end it be a hybrid 3 wheel drive. And the beetle rear end make simple fish tail for aero.

I had a high level of confidence that was your meaning. ;)

A 'through-the-road' parallel hybrid is a not bad plan. It simplifies things. Fishtailing a New Beetle? I'm not so sure.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...WfsJrOC31pBZ-8http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...2C4rfKgW8yayvf

I think you'd do better to start with a Golf and pie-cut the body behind the cowl. Just a little so the door hinges can accommodate the change, or just ahead of the hinge line.

Hi Freebeard
I am very new here, yes thats the car,. You see the tail end is already tappered. Since its a 3 wheel I won't need the rear wheel fender, will the shave and replace with a panel be simpler than the pie cut?

That's kinda odd, but interesting. BTW if I were looking to convert a car into a reverse-trike, possibly would make it RWD using the transmission setup of a BMW R-series motorcycle.

Freebeard! Where can I find out more about that car?! That is awesome!

Yes, why did they keep the rear fenders? :D What in the world is occupying the back seat?

skippo -- My point was that the New Beetle is squarer than the old. Thinner rear fenders, wider rear valance, etc.

Xist -- I think this is the same car:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...es/trike61.jpg

Found here with cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Beemer power in the Grinnall Scorpion III

http://www.grinnallcars.com/content/home/11.jpg

A simpler approach from thesamba.com:

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/533608.jpg

Found via Google Images for vw reverse trike

Image search! Of course! I guess that welding your own frame and removing the center half makes sense, but the finished product does not have the seam.

I do not think there is any taper, as beautiful as that car is, I imagine that it would be obvious. I imagine that you would start the taper behind the doors, which would create a noticeable corner, unless you want to create a whole new body panel!

Image search! Of course! I guess that welding your own frame and removing the center half makes sense, but the finished product does not have the seam.

I do not think there is any taper, as beautiful as that car is, I imagine that it would be obvious. I imagine that you would start the taper behind the doors, which would create a noticeable corner, unless you want to create a whole new body panel!

What? You thought I was some genius? :)

I have been looking further. Here's the owners website: http://www.bugwing.com/. It turns out he did all the work to promote a particular religious perspective, AKA proselytize. The link to construction details at http://www.digitalbiker.com/bugwing.htm hits a wall for me.

Here's two pictures of a front engine/rear drive trike:
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...ece8906467.jpghttp://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...68df602d76.jpg

I agree about the plan taper, but I'd start the pie-cut at the A-pillar instead of the B-pillar. It's narrower there and you'd only lose a little elbow room.

Front-engine in a Beetle body, even modded the hell out, is kinda weird.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...2-p1010064.jpg

Unblown flat-four in front with a bug-catcher; Studebaker cab back and Porsche 924 transaxle in back.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...97-350x180.jpg

Blackjack Zero with front/front. 2CV-based car in the rear.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...vion-guzzi.gif

Motoguzzi V-twin in frontwheel drive.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-fr...4-guzzi-vw.gif

The V-twin [probably] would fit in the front sheetmetal and bumper.

Edit: has anyone else noticed that skippo bumped this thread from 2012 and hasn't posted since.

Right, website unavailable, but the religious stuff loads just fine.

I just wanted to know about the car!

This has a negligible amount of information:

It’s a Honda Goldwing Motorcycle ! It’s a VW Beetle Bug ! No... it’s BugWing !!! from Bikes in the Fast Lane - Daily Motorcycle News

Google seems to have a cache of his images:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...TNjDWYpYXtp3Av

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...nLyU1q9jzQNugZ

http://www.bugwing.com/sturgis318.jpg

Is it easier to maintain two doors than it would be to weld one shut?

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...3oyayUjO1Ec9s_

http://www.artcarparade.com/ACP%20ME...ing-hands2.jpg

I think this is a different one!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/DSC00213.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...s/DSC00212.jpg

Okay, I lost interest! :)

It looks like the gearbox of the longitudinally-engined early FWD Volkswagens. Kinda off-topic, but I've already considered to fit a Harley-Davidson engine into a Dasher...

I am still here , I just find this thread on Google. Seem like the topic is wondering off where my interest. I am looking to build a 3 wheel diver high performance hybrid. That get very good mpg. Not just a reverse trike.

Would it be better to taper from the A-pillar or just have the A-B section narrower and rectangular?

skippo -- Somewhere along the line you registered on the site. Actually on 10-30-2012.


If you scroll to the top of this page you will see where it says "EcoModder Forum > Introductions > Car conversion to 3 wheels". If you click on Ecomodder Forums and pick some thing or other, like General Efficiency Discussion, or Hybrids, or DIY/How-to you will have possibly a more suitable result. Personally, I don't mind people bumping old threads but Introductions is an odd place to do it.

Xist -- the Beetle body is compound curved from the get-go. Template-wise the widest point wants to be at 30% of overall length.

Maybe you should start looking for either a wrecked BMW R-series motorcycle or a Can-Am Spyder to be the donor of the rear assembly and internal-combustion engine, while you could fit an electric drive at the front axle of your 3-wheeler if you choose a front-engined FWD car as the base.