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Chili - 2000 Honda Insight Thread
It's been a week since I became an owner of a red 2000 Honda Insight, 1.0, 5 speed. I finally got it tagged and legal Friday! It is long overdue that I make an ecomodding thread!
I'm going to post pics and go into more detail in my next post later today. Linkback to the post where I went to look at it and bought it : Soon to own an Insight!l Pic of it at the house https://s26.postimg.org/t26jqryjd/20170326_102617.jpg Trip mileage after bringing it back from Springfield: https://s26.postimg.org/t0wlxcwpl/20170326_102254.jpg Mileage I've got around town, without hybrid assist: https://s26.postimg.org/y62espz15/20170329_161022.jpg ScanGuage guage setup for now: https://s26.postimg.org/hna2m5m6x/20170326_102226.jpg Working on brakes in order to pass inspection: https://s26.postimg.org/fmo4f2ffd/20170329_141953.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/ujwlg2snt/20170329_143352.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/yhjv5hfh5/20170329_143413.jpg More to come later! |
Congrats on your purchase & getting it tagged!
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Subscribed.
Went with a friend yesterday to pick up his first Insight, too: http://i.imgur.com/OLWWbLe.jpg I wonder if it's not some kind of disease, and friends shouldn't let friends buy Insights. |
It's a lucky man who has no friends! ;)
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Thanks! I'm just glad to have a road legal vehicle for the first time since August!
I have friends, but none are as eco-crazy as I am... I reckon that makes me lucky! :D |
I went on a Pokemon Go trip with my good buddy Saturday afternoon. We went to Mammoth Springs, where water Pokemon spawn constantly. I told him that my long shot goal was 70 mpg, but I was realistic and said 65 mpg would be more likely.
Remember that I have almost no experience driving the Insight, I have no IMA function whatsoever, the terrain is never flat and he added 260 pounds on top of my weight of 180. Total weight of the Insight was in the neighborhood of 2300 pounds. I did what I thought I couldn't do! :D:D https://s26.postimg.org/91befazkp/20170401_171543.jpg The return trip was even better! A lil longer due to going to Wendy's on the opposite side of town :) https://s26.postimg.org/gvc00p7dl/20170401_195522.jpg |
Nicely done. :)
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Here is a list of mods and maintenance that I have planned.
Maintenance - Drain and refill the MT with Honda recommended fluid - Clean headlights - Fix small oil leak from the top part of the motor, can't remember the name of the part - Clean EGR - P0420 and P1449 codes :( - Get IMA system back up and running - Fix the driver front interior fender well - OEM engine bay belly panels? - Replace broken door handle and repair driver's door (pics later) Aesthetics/pleasure - Reinstall CD player - Upgrade speakers - 8" subwoofer w/ amp - New paint job, OEM red, MAYBE Citrus - Interior restoration Planned Eco-mods - Grill block - Remove rear wiper - Remove POS factory antenna - Custom front belly pan if OEM leaves something to be desired - Custom rear belly pan at appropriate angle to reduce lift - 14x4 Insight space saver rims w/ new RE92's @ 80 psi - Boat tail - MIMA - Warm air intake - Engine kill switch for EOC Eco-mods implemented as of 4/3/17 - Tire pressure of 60f/55r - Driving by FCD - Neutral coasting as much as possible! If y'all remember my Escort build, it was MAJORLY function over form. I want this build to be a delicate balance of form and function, to make it look like the Insight came from Honda with full Ecomodder glory. |
I will be damned! I don't have lean burn!!!
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Not with that IMA disabled you won't. The car will still get pretty amazing mpg without the IMA or lean burn, but it's a dog without it.
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I'm happy for you! And slightly jealous
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How much mpg do you think I'm sacrificing by not having lean burn? Separately, IMA? Amazing mpg is right! With no mods other than DBFCD (Drive By FCD), folded in mirrors and high tire pressure, I got 78.4 mpg over 81.5 miles up to Fort Leonard Wood! I drove faster coming back and managed 73.5. Combined for 75.95 mpg over 163 miles :thumbup: https://s26.postimg.org/cp0sw83h5/20170403_204426.jpg |
I doubt lean burn is worth more than maybe 5mpg on average, but it depends on some variables, such as how fast you're driving. Cruising along at 30-40 on flat roads you'd be at very low loads without lean burn, whereas at ~60 (close to the max speed you can get in lean burn) the gains are much smaller, since the throttle plate is still relatively open and load pretty high even at stoich. The Insight's engine runs very well at low RPM and I expect 130+ might be achievable with hyperinflated tires cruising along at ~30 in 5th using lean burn, and you wouldn't come close to that without it.
Pulse and glide in lean burn at ~50 in good weather: http://i.imgur.com/SOGlFfg.jpg Steady cruising in lean burn at ~50 in good weather: http://i.imgur.com/UjjsoRn.jpg The IMA system probably helps more in the city, where regenerative braking can recapture some energy, but mostly it has to do with drivability. The Insight has gobs of torque at low RPM when you have a healthy battery. |
It has been a hectic 3 weeks since I last posted! This is going to be a pretty huge update. I have collected a lot of data, driven a lot of miles and done quite a bit of work with the Insight. Mostly general maintenance has been done, but I have snuck a few ecomods in.
I'm gonna try to get this done before I go to work. Let's do this!!! First off, I have to share some of my more noteable trip mileage figures. This car never ceases to amaze me at what fuel economy it can get, whether in town or on the highway. This is my best trip yet. It was low traffic conditions right after nightfall. I started in Mountain Grove after delivering a friend some items. I got lost 3 miles into the trip back! I luckily got back on the right route quickly. Then it was 55 mph cruising back to West Plains with driving by the MPG gauge on small hills (bled off speed going up) and drafting semis to maintain speed up longer inclines. https://s26.postimg.org/mcyoc6avt/20170411_212925.jpg My trip up to MG was 75.4 mpg! Daytime trip to Springfield averaging around 60 mph https://s26.postimg.org/5dppwwzo9/20170415_183046.jpg Coming back from Springfield https://s26.postimg.org/wpkyy94ex/20170415_233536.jpg Another trip to and from Springfield https://s26.postimg.org/btyon087t/20170419_183947.jpg |
I had my first F-E tank in the Insight last week! This deserved a post to itself, because I am proud of both me and the car :)
I recorded 713.8 miles on my first tank! https://s26.postimg.org/powz5h2mx/20170419_221908.jpg It took 10.237 gallons to fill up. Hand calculated FE comes out to 69.7 mpg, which is what you see in my signature :D:thumbup: I seriously thought I was going to run out of gas trying to push the tank over 700 miles... |
Pic dump!
This is some kind of charger the PO hooked up to the battery pack. I can't recall what the name of it is. https://s26.postimg.org/9hm3bo68p/20170410_185610.jpg Aero mod #1 - Removed rear wiper https://s26.postimg.org/maa7blhuh/20170410_193336.jpg Aero mod #2 - Removed POS antenna https://s26.postimg.org/uttl9cq6x/20170410_193340.jpg Went to Springfield and picked up some MT fluid for a peace-of-mind change. https://s26.postimg.org/mxdpev449/20170421_134759.jpg Gotta love working at an oil shop that lets you use their bay :D https://s26.postimg.org/oqgm36pax/20170421_134817.jpg Pic of the fill and drain plugs on the Insight's manual transmission https://s26.postimg.org/npgde28bd/20170421_134834.jpg The fluid change was an easy job. I worked at it slow and was done in 30 minutes. The old fluid did not look bad coming out, but when compared to the new fluid, it was more opaque. My guess is the additives in the oil had worn out before the actual base oils, but this is an assumption, not scientific by any means. No metal flakes or sludge came out! The transmission loved the new oil. It definitely shifts smoother into all gears. The grind going into second has vastly improved. I do know the synchros are worn, but this gives me confidence that the wear is minimal. |
Congrats on everything, I love coming down the hill at 60 and 65 interchange, coast it all the way to the turn off
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Thank you FordMan! Yep, that is one of my favorite spots along the route!
I'm heading up to Springfield in a few minutes actually. I'm getting more maintenance items; i.e. air filter, thermostat, spark plugs and maybe a cabin air filter. Wish there was a dealership closer to me... Other things I have planned for today include an oil treatment, fuel system cleaning, EGR cleaning, coolant flush and fill. Might be more if my subconscious wanders while I drive up to Springfield :D I'm really wanting to get 3 more Insight spares soon. I plan on getting a new set of RE92's when I have 4 spare wheels to mount them on. They will be professionally painted in a different color before they go on my car. I do not want to look as if Ronald McDonald went eco crazy. |
I actually have mine in the shop getting the oil changed to 0W20 Mobil FE oil with a Motorcraft 400S filter, and then balancing tires and pumping them up to 60PSI, currently have Goodyear Viva 3's on the car, they were new on the car when I bought it back last November, also, first oil change since getting the car, I also am doing the fuel filter, which I do every 10K miles
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Another major update!
I hate that I've not been able to update this thread as often as I would like. I'm having a blast with the Insight! It is by far the vehicle I've had the most fun driving ever! It's 67 horsepower is proving itself :D
I recently encountered an overheating problem in the Insight. Every so often, the car would run around 224-230* constantly on the highway. I wasn't complaining because my fuel economy was higher at these temps (my only 80+ mpg highway trip was at these temps). But coming back from Springfield, ironically, to get a new thermostat, gasket and spark plugs, My temps shot up to 270*! :eek::eek: I limped it back home and immediately got it into my workplace's bay to work on it. After consulting Insight Central for proper procedure and going to YouTube (for an awesome annotated video, my system had A LOT of air in it. It was idling and the coolant temps were 230! after purging the system and finding the possible culprit (the overflow tank was missing the hose going down into the container, thus drawing air instead of coolant. This is my educated assumption), the car idled at 172* and now runs at 198-202* constantly while cruising. Which is a lil high, but I don't have lean burn. So I expect excess heat over an Insight with Lean Burn. Edit: Here is Ecky's procedure on his thread, an excellent write up! |
I replaced my spark plugs after the cooling ordeal. Don Wessel Honda in Springfield did not have the stock "B" series NGK spark plugs in stock, so I had to settle for Autolite Iridiums. I bought 6 so I could personally index them myself. Having never done indexing before and going off of a 10 minute research break, I'm sure that I did this wrong. But it seemed to work out for me in the end! Here is how I did it:
https://s26.postimg.org/gxilp80bd/20170426_194234.jpg That simple. I marked the top and all the way down the plug with a Sharpie to indicate the location of ground electrode. I marked all 6 the same way. The only thing left to do was to install all 6 in each hole and check the location of the spark. I got close with 2 of them https://s26.postimg.org/851n1jf6h/20170426_194445.jpg They both had this orientation. This photo shows the ground towards the exhaust ports (rear of the car) and the spark positioned towards the intake ports. In the third, none of the remaining ones were close. So I picked the best, which had the ground facing the driver's side tire, i.e. ~90* off "optimal". The old ones definitely showed wear and white build up from running lean, which would be normal for this car. My butt-o-meter said there was a slight difference when I left the shop and went up the hill going away from work. |
Neat idea on the indexing. Be aware the Insight has a tendency to let the plugs back out, for whatever reason. Reminds me that I need to check mine.
Did you see that I just replaced the thermostat and bled mine a few days ago? http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post539883 EDIT: Is that a spider next to your plug? |
Thank you Ecky! I know this isn't "perfect", as the plugs are supposed to face the main intake valve, somewhere around a 45* angle. I'll keep my eyes on them, thanks for the heads up.
I didn't. Opening a new tab with it right now :) Nope! That would be a dead mosquito hawk lol! One thing I kinda regret not doing is widening the gap. I haven't found any evidence of anyone doing this on the Insight, and the only personal evidence I have was widening the gap on my ZX2 75% over stock (0.040 to 0.070) to help lean burn. If you or anyone has tried this on an Insight, please let me know! Edit: Adding a link in my cooling system post to direct others to your post, Ecky. |
Fuel system treatment
Working at Valvoline, I have the perks of getting their products at cost and free labor, since I do the work myself :) That means $12 dollar oil changes for one :D
Another is access to their lineup of cleaning fluids, such as the 3 Step Fuel System Cleaner. https://s26.postimg.org/4zlmp2ly1/20170427_122814.jpg I did this in preparation for a 1200 mile roadtrip this past weekend (more on that in the next post). It consist of intake cleaner, their best injector cleaner and throttle body cleaner. I used the intake and injector cleaner, but couldn't use the throttle cleaner due to the bolt holding the intake pipe being seized up. It took about 20 minutes and leaving work going up the usual hill, the car was more responsive than ever! It accelerated faster with less load and it did so with more timing than usual. I would typically see negative timing on this hill after a cold start with high loads, but this was not the case. I did not get to see inside the engine before nor after the treatment, but I assume that carbon and other build up was burnt off and less preignition happened, resulting in the knock sensor not pulling timing as much as before. I wish I had more than anecdotal evidence and my senses and their reactions, but alas, I'm not very scientific under a time crunch :o |
Fuel mileage on my Louisiana trip
I left Mizzou Friday night to head for southern LA. My best friend's daddy had passed away the week proir, and I was going down to be there for her and to attend the funeral. This gave me an excellent opportunity to see just how good my Insight was on an all highway trip. 579 miles to be exact.
Here are the results! Trip down - https://s26.postimg.org/3ltztrmop/20170429_104735.jpg Trip back up - https://s26.postimg.org/nvrb8wntl/20170501_183455.jpg Total miles and fuel economy - https://s26.postimg.org/hw3k59315/20170501_183505.jpg I was hoping for at least 70 mpg on the round trip, and very optimistically 80. Neither happened, but I learned a lot about the car and how it behaves at different speeds, drafting different vehicles and in different climates. I can say I have never had a vehicle that was so responsive to drafting. This car eats it up and was necessary when I had headwinds roughly 60-70% of the trip. |
Congrats on everything, sometimes you might try a local parts store for the spark plugs so you don't have to settle for autolites...I work for O'reilly part time and can usually get most automotive plugs.
Also, sorry about the loss of your friend. |
BD, I look forward to what you do with your Insight. Your work on the Escort was very impressive. I am sure you will get your Insight into the triple digit mileage club.
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Fordman - Thank you! I checked and told the wrong manufacturer. They are Denso Iridium, Part # SK20HR11. Funny thing, I went to Oreillys for the SPs after Honda didn't have them :D had to go to the corporate office in Springfield! No one keeps anything in stock around Southern Mizzou for the 1st Gen Insight.
Pete c - Thank you for the encouragement! I miss the Escort, I had A LOT of fun with that build. I'm going at the Insight with the same intensity, just slower as I don't have access to materials as readily in Mizzou than NC. One of my main focuses on this build is going to be the same as the Escort - aerodynamics. The Insight is amazing in factory form, but as all vehicles, is a template for the artist to showcase his/her skills and talents. I achieved an 18.5% reduction in drag on the Escort (0.33 to 0.269). The same on the Insight would give me a Cd of 0.204, which I think is achievable. My hypothesis is that Honda didn't do to well with the Insight. Phil Knox (Aerohead) has said repeatedly that 0.25 is the start of "Low Drag Territory". It makes sense for a manufacturer, even Honda, to achieve this mark and say "Good enough!" because it would look good for those who know what 0.25 Cd signifies. |
I have to toot my horn a lil! I have 105 miles on this tank, and I have gotten the FCD over 60 mpg with 100% city miles! :) what capped it off was a 92.8 mpg run over 6.1 miles through suburbia and on the bypass and back. I also hit 2 stoplights during the run!! :)
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http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-ba...513-215647.jpg
Just got back home after finishing a record trip! 86.2 mpg over 124.3 miles!!! I gathered a lot of details and info from this segment, which I will be sharing once I can get Wi-Fi and be on my laptop :) Edit - just uploaded them from my phone! |
Need some help from my fellow Insighters.
1 - I busted the driver side window this afternoon. One rock while weedeating was all it took :( *s there a cheaper alternative other than $173 @ Majestic Honda? I would use plexiglass or Lexan, but it's gotta be legal and tintable 2 - the car threw a P0171 code yesterday. A Google searched showed that this is rare for the Honda Insight with no clear answer as to the culprit. Any ideas? Some info on what was happening to suspect that something was amiss. There was no check engine light, I had to pull it off the ScanGauge. I could be cruising along and the car would lose a small amount of power. The timing would be really low and my mpgs took a hit. The only time i observed this on all gauges was pulling a small incline in town at 35 mph in 5th gear, ~60-65% load. The timing dropped from 21 to 9 and my mpgs went from 65 to 50-55. Power dropped. It stopped after about 10 seconds though. The other times it went on for up to 2 minutes at a time, but happened 4 or 5 times over the course of about an hour of driving. It has never done this before last night too. I'm thinking EGR, front and possibly rear O2 sensors (I have a P0420 code as well) or a fuel problem near the fuel pump. If something doesn't make sense (I am dead tired), let me know and I will calrify it asap :) 3 - How much grill block is advisable going into summer? I want to have as close to 100% as possible. Would the top opening be sufficient if the air could be routed downward through the radiator? |
check Car - Parts. com for the window, it is like a salvage yard search engine, or call LKQ @ 417 - 659 - 7711 and talk to Mark, tell him I sent you
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Mr. AL, you are a blessed life saver!!!
I have one reserved in Kansas City for $85 that I am going to pick up tomorrow :thumbup: found it on Car-Part.com! Thank you so much sir! |
Ahh the joys of 80MPG highway, only cost you like 5 dollars in fuel to go get it...lol
Glad I could help!!! |
80 mpg? I'm going to shoot for 90 mpg round trip tomorrow :D
Also, got my best long trip mpg yesterday! http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-ba...515-210118.jpg Just filled up for my best tank yet, 75.6 mpg :) |
;)
I didn't think to snap a pic but I ended a 39 mile trip with 101.9 on the FCD. Granted, it's harder to maintain these huge numbers over longer distances. I haven't had any longer trips in a while. http://i.imgur.com/U8oEyZa.jpg What's really killing my mileage is that I live downtown now, and lately I often drive short distances in stop and go traffic. How and where you drive seems to make a much bigger difference than anything you can do to these cars. |
You might even check car-parts.com for parts to fix the ima...or did I read that wrong and it is working at this time?
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A lot of what I do is short city driving. I've just had many long highway trips to pop up recently. I can still get 60 mpg in town without IMA. If I lived back in NC where it is flat and didn't have to deal with the elevation change that's in Missouri, I think I could have tanks well into the 80s and 90s. |
Have a safe trip!
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I raise you 100mpg+ over 100+ miles.
http://i.imgur.com/QInilHdl.jpg This was A-B-A even - two ~53 mile trips. |
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