Ecomodding an automatic '04 Civic Sedan
 

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Note: Click here to go directly to the start of the actual modding build part. :) The rest is mostly dialogue about my car and asking questions related to ecomodding it.
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Also as a side note, the 42+ mpg obtained in my introductory post below was on "longer" (30+ minute) trips. My current modding baseline prior to modding is 38 mpg due to most trips being 10 miles or less.

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Hello all! Yes this is my first post, and yes I am new to Ecomodder. :)

I'm also a newer driver (newer is relative), and this '04 Honda Civic EX sedan is my first car. Yes, it is an automatic, don't hate me for it (my next car will probably be a manual though). Now if your area is anything like mine, most new drivers get lumbering SUVs or buy Civics to trash around. But being the nerd among my associates I decided to buy a Civic, keep it stock, and see what kind of MPGs I can get out of it.

Well at first it went well. When I bought it I knew the brakes needed to be changed, but drove around in it a little using basic hypermiling techniques and averaged 39 MPG - decent considering the new EPA combined estimate is 30 MPG (because no, this is not an HF or a VX, as I didn't want a coupe). Well after changing brakes my MPG went down to 25, kind of disappointing.

Looking at the problem revealed a bad brake caliper. The caliper was already bad, but somehow worked until it was remounted during the brake change.

Once that was replaced and a new air filter was installed, I drove it around with much greater success. First trip was 44 MPG, second was 52 MPG, third had some traffic and was 38 MPG, and the trend continued. And yes I was hypermiling, just for the record.

Anyway, the rest of the tank averaged 42.2 MPG (~40% above EPA and with winter blend gasoline as well! :D ). Final tank ended up at 34.1, which isn't bad considering the 25 MPG from the brake caliper had brought my average down from 39 to 29. However with all issues fixed, looking forward to starting a trend of 40+ MPG tanks (and maybe closer to 50 in the summer)!

No mods done to the car, however I may install a removable grille block for winter time and possibly some underpaneling. My key thing here though is for my Civic to look and be stock -- too many Civics are modded to look like ricer junkies, and that I am determined my Civic will never look like. My biggest goal is to get a 50 MPG tank just once, but we'll see if that's achievable.

Want to give a huge shoutout to all the extremely helpful hypermiling tips listed on this site! They've definitely helped me learn how to best squeeze the most miles out of my car (despite it being an automatic) as well as better pay attention to surrounding traffic to avoid being perceived as one of those completely rude drivers out there. ;)

I hope you lubed up those caliper slider pins good. If you feel like going back in there, you can make some brake pad return springs, i've got a video on them. Be careful to not make them too strong. I made mine very strong with the assumption that the hydraulic brake system would easily overpower them. Well, it does, but the initial pedal feel has changed. I have gotten used to it, but I would prefer it to bite more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6uaHJE7r8

I should hope you can achieve a 50 MPG tank, my best tank in the V6 accord was 44.6 MPG, and I just passed 50 MPG yesterday! I have yet to be called a ricer and my car looks like:

Attachment 23518
Attachment 23519

You should be able to get some pretty helpful mods in even with maintaining a stock appearance. My car remained mostly stock looking for a while because of parents...:rolleyes:

Add an engine block heater to your list of potential mods, they are cheap, effective, and very nice to have in the cold.

When you are stopped(assuming engine on), do you shift into neutral while waiting? That is worth a 25-30% reduction in idle fuel consumption vs in drive, and gives a smoother idle.

Welcome to the site and congrats on the great mileage with a stock automatic! Nicely done.

We have a member that wanted an HX and four doors. He did not make excuses.

For sure, that was the problem with the old brake caliper, whenever the brake was pressed the pins would engage and wouldn't release (I'm assuming that's how they work, I'm not extremely mechanical myself), creating a pretty significant amount of drag that quickly heated up the wheel itself.


Is your Accord an automatic or a manual? How much of an increase have you seen with your mods?

Lol! I also don't want to ruin the resale value of my car so any mods I would do would have to be easily removable without damaging the car. Only if I end up not selling it later on would I consider doing some "serious" (probably not "serious" to you experts) mods.

Definitely have considered that, especially during the colder weeks when MPG is noticeably reduced. However I am kind of on a budget, hence why hypermiling appeals to me besides just the simple nerdiness of attaining those higher numbers.

I haven't done that, and I haven't done any EOC just for safety reasons. If the intersection is busy enough to warrant that I just don't feel it safe enough, and if there isn't any traffic I'm just not stopped long enough to do that. I have considered doing it though, however I still occasionally try to accelerate in neutral after coasting just because I sometimes forget to shift back into drive, something I hate because it's just a waste of fuel lol.

Thank you! :D <--one thing I have already noticed, there needs to be a "moderate" grin face..sometimes :) isn't enough and :D is too much.

Lol I'm sure it's possible! However I have very little mechanical know-how and of course a budget has to be applied to. ;)

Don't remember if I put extra lube on them, but I do remember making sure they worked properly, since that seemed to be the issue with the caliper that came on the car.


Is your car a manual or an automatic? How much have these mods improved your MPG?

Lol! Resale value is also another thing to keep in mind, in case I ever end up reselling it when I buy a newer car later on.

Definitely something I've looked at, however budget does come into play with some mods. ;)

I've considered that, but I just need to first make sure I stop trying to accelerate in neutral from forgetting to switch back into drive after coasting lol.

Thank you! :)

Lol I'm sure it's possible! However a limited budget and zero mechanical experience hinder me somewhat from doing something like that. ;)

Manual all the way! Honda only made my V6 6 speed manual accord sedan for two years. My mods, of which there are more, have improved MPG probably between 10-15%.

My block heater was only $53.60 plus shipping.

Nice! Seeing all the big success stories happening with manuals almost (not quite) makes me regret purchasing an automatic, but for a first car it's probably best. My next car is definitely going to be a manual or an auto with paddle shifters.

That's not bad, but do you think it in itself has saved you at least that much in fuel costs?

Don't be too sure that having an auto that lets you shift would be the same as a manual. Lots of autos will not let you shift before they will. My mom's Mazda CX-5 will not shift into 6th until 45 mph, manual mode doesn't change that. My dad's Mercedes Benz E550 however will let you upshift a little early, letting the engine be around 700-1000 RPM, but it won't go into 7th until 40mph. In my accord, i'll go into 5th by 20 mph or 6th by 27 mph if I don't have to accelerate. That's 800-900 RPM :thumbup:



Not yet, might take another year, but it certainly has the potential to. The more short trips you do, the quicker it would pay itself off. If I were one to turn on the heat early, then it may have paid off already, but as is I wait until I hit 186F until I turn on the heat. It also has the potential to make your engine, starter, and battery last longer, so that should be a consideration too.

True, a manual would definitely be better overall, but an auto with paddle shifters would have the benefit of if you ever had a day you didn't feel like driving a manual or if someone else were to drive the car, since few people nowadays know how to drive a manual. Either would be better than trying to trick an automatic into shifting lol.

Those are some sweet RPMs though! My tach only works sporadically (and I haven't gotten a gauge yet for that) so idk exactly what my RPMs are, but I can safely guess they're higher due to the civic being a smaller vehicle. I know it seems to hit 4th gear around 41-43 MPH (or so it feels like) and on that 52 mpg trip I was going around low 40s since there wasn't much traffic, so something must be right there. And of course having 6 gears on your Accord beats the 4 on my auto!

That's kinda the thing with me though, I'm not very patient to wait for things to pay themselves off ;) which probably explains my hesitation to buy a Scangauge or Ultragauge.

Your civic is at 1621 RPM at 45 MPH, or 2522 RPM at 70 MPH, not bad at all! I didn't check EX vs LX auto gearing, but the EX gearing is shorter on manuals of this civic generation.


If you plan on keeping the car...Get stuff now so you can start enjoying the savings right away, the longer you wait, the less savings you will get.

Where did you get this information?? I've been looking all over for a way to find out RPMS at various speeds in my car since the tach doesn't work and I can't find it anywhere, tell me your secret source!

I think I remember reading somewhere that the manual gets slightly better MPG in city due to the gearing and the auto gets slightly better MPG on the highway due to a lower gear ratio in the highest gear, but that obviously doesn't take into consideration the manual's better ability in hypermiling.

Yes, true, but of course my favorite mods are going to be the free ones, like pumping tires up ;) currently mine are at 40 PSI, or were, they might be down by 1 or so due to the cold weather we've been having. I do think I will eventually start implementing some subtle things such as a block heater, but I will be having the timing belt changed this spring so I'll probably wait until after then so it doesn't hurt the pocketbook as much.

I avoid automatics whenever possible, but my car was $1,050 less than this one: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/c...479733847.html

with 60% as many miles. That is enough to pay for 85% of the gas that I have used in sixteen months.

Sometimes plans come together for me. The rest of the time I see squirrels at just the worst moments.

http://owners.honda.com/vehicles/information/2004/Civic-Sedan/specs#mid^ES2674MW

For that one, I used owners.honda.com. Select vehicle info in the top left corner, and you can get specs for each trim level. I usually use cars.com though. You can select research cars, pick the trim level and scroll down to specifications.

From there I use the Engine RPM calculator from CSGNetwork, scroll all the way down so you can use the calculator with four variables specified: Axle ratio, tire height, speed, and gear ratio. Once upon a time I did tire height calculations manually, but now I just use tiresize.com 's tire height calculator.

Now do me a favor and find me the secret source for figuring out motorcycle gear ratios! :(

That's why i'm teaching people, I have taught SIXTEEN people how to drive manual so far.

You might be interested in this.

Too bad about the automatic; with a manual, you could wire in a fuel injector kill switch (someone else on the forum figured out which wire to cut on the 7th gen, and a few of us followed suit) and have some real fun.

So I hear from most hypermilers; manuals take the day. But I gotta deal with what I have. :thumbup:

Very nice! Impressed with how decent the grille block looks! Did you end up ever temporarily removing part of the grille block during the summer? And how bad was the stock bumper modded to achieve this (thinking of resale value)? And you used sheet metal for this, right? Do you think the increased FE beat the cost of the mods? Sorry for all the questions!

Also the pictures on the post didn't show - showed some kind of "third party sharing disabled" thing :( had to go to your car's profile page to see it.

Ah yes I used that but those tools don't seem to take into consideration gears...like you know how an automatic will shift from, say, 3rd gear to 4th at 40 MPH, so the RPMs are lower at 40 than 39...the tool just linearly increases the RPMs. Or am I just missing something here?

Basically you need to calculate the return on investment (ROI) on your mods and decide on materials... obviously sheet metal and the like will cost more than coroplast or tape... I usually gather coroplast after big elections and use that for basically free, and it’s plenty strong enough for most aero mods...

My grille blocks stay on year round but I monitor engine temp with an UltraGauge...

Got several mods planned that'll cost under $40 in all, and should pay for themselves after ~5000. I may start an actual build thread when I begin them.

Hopefully I can get a bluetooth adapter hooked up soon so I can connect a phone to it and monitor temps and stats that way.

Going for mods that can be reversed easily back to stock appearance with no drilling, taping, gluing etc. And using the cheapest materials possible.

Some more questions here...

Other than the lower engine cover that comes standard on the 7th gen Civic Hybrids here) what other aero mods were done to the Civic Hybrid that can be incorporated into my Civic EX? From what I've read, the 7th gen Civic has a drag coefficient of 0.36 but the same gen hybrid has 0.28. Seems like a lot of possible gain here.

And also, does anyone know of a tool somewhere to calculate the minimum speed of each gear? My Civic seems to shift into final overdrive between 40 and 42, but my tach is broken so I can't verify (one of those things I need to fix when I have time). Is there a way to calculate minimum cruising speed for each gear? Maybe using gear ratios or something? Or is it purely a vehicle by vehicle basis?

I was considering posting a new thread analyzing the differences between car models/generations. I have pictures for an 8th gen civic vs civic hybrid, but not 7th gen.

Attachment 23638

The differences visible in the hybrid here are the smooth wheels and the trunk lid spoiler.
Attachment 23639

Attachment 23640

Both cars seem to have rear wheel spats, so no improvement there.
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In your auto, minimum speed is decided by the computer, there is nothing to calculate. You could find out which speeds each gears work for by driving up to a speed where it locks the TQ in 4th, then just let off the gas and listen/feel for each downshift if you can. That being said, you can see what RPM you are at for the minimum speeds of each gear by using the engine rpm calculator I posted above and plugging in the other gear ratios, assuming your TQ doesn't just drop the engine to idle when you let off the gas...

That would be a good thread to start, especially since many hybrid versions of regular cars have lower drag coefficients.

I've been trying to do that, and I think I have it sort of figured out. Too bad there isn't an actual calculator.

Planning ecomods for my Civic
 

So while waiting for circumstances to give me the ability to start ecomodding my car, here are is what I've come up with to do:

- Smooth coroplast wheel covers. Easy to restore to stock by cutting a few zip ties.
- Pipe insulation to block upper grille.
- Coroplast to effectively block portions of the lower grille. Coroplast "fan blades" to cover fog light area to increase aero.
- Possibly use coroplast to duct incoming air into the radiator.
- Air Dam - lawn edging mounted onto front bumper.
- Possibly see if I can obtain the engine bay belly pan from a same gen Civic Hybrid to install.

Attached is a rough idea of what I'd hope the final product to look like (thanks to Microsoft Paint):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1521387437

What do you think? Any tips, suggestions, or improvements? Should I paint it black or try to match the silver? I'm also considering automated grille shutters if I ever become knowledgeable enough to wire them up.

All mods must be easily restorable to stock (unless I replaced the part such as with the bumper and grille, but kept the original bumper and grille).

Looks promising.

An automated grille block would not be hard to do at all.

I want to believe that, but all the automated grille block mods I've found on here and other sites seem so complicated. :(:confused:

That is always the rub... What is simple for one modder, might not be so simple for another. Even objectively simple things are a little more complex for the relatively inexperienced. I just had a guy mention a "pigtail" for my directional signal light intermittent failure, and I had to look up what a pigtail is. "Pigtail" is obviously basic vocab, but my training and experience are elsewhere. We keep learning.

All that said, I agree with teoman that an active block is objectively simple. It is not like building an arduino or something objectively more complex. That means the learning curve is easier.

Good luck, hey.

I guess. I suppose I should take it one mod at a time instead of trying to do everything at once that takes master ecomodders months to accomplish. ;) One day though, I will figure it out.

I’d focus on one mod at a time... you keep talking about resale value and returning the car to stock; do you intend to sell it soon?

No, I don't plan on selling it for a long time. Car has 153K miles on it and Hondas should last well past 300K if properly taken care of, so the car has plenty of life in it since it's in excellent condition right now. I guess I'm just used to my family reselling cars when they reach the 250K mark and still getting $1K or so for them. I guess it really just depends on where I'm at when that time comes.

And as far as the returning to stock part goes, well, maybe someday I'll just get tired of hypermiling/ecomodding. I know, such a sacrilegious opinion to share on a forum like this, and I have no intentions of stopping anytime soon, but who knows.

When you own a car for twenty years and do all the work on it, you know every flaw. You can eventually ID and repair any failure. If I sold for a grand (assuming I could), a replacement vehicle would be a mystery. Surprise failures would start appearing. When it comes to the go-box, I don't like surprises! Lol.

I second the above opinion... if you’re gonna sell/trade, obviously do it before too much irreversible modding... otherwise, I’d do whatever you feel necessary... realistically if I were spending $1k next a car, I’d not expect it to look pristine... however, using tape shouldn’t hurt the finish at all... most residue comes off with some goof-off...

Most of the mods of the aerodynamic variety also help speed, just some food for thought... not only cheaper to operate than the garden variety 04 Civic but also faster on the freeway and maybe with less lift, translating to better high speed stability...

It sounds like you’re gonna keep it a while though, so the more cheap kids you have, the cheaper your operating costs will be in the long run

Think of how much better MPG I could get down the road in several years with an eocmodded '15 Fit rated 36 MPG combined as opposed to an ecomodded '04 Civic rated 30 MPG combined!

But true, owning the same car for as long as the vehicle lasts does have its advantages. Prior to buying this car I literally knew absolutely nothing about a car's engine--and I still don't know much--but I'm hoping to learn for myself instead of just relying on mechanics to do everything.

Not planning on doing any irreversible mods.

If my tranny dies but the rest of the car is in good shape I'll see if I can replace it with a taller one for even better FE. :cool:

But the car is in excellent shape and should run for a long time yet.

Yes. But remember that the '15 Fit will have greater market value. Depreciation on your cash outlay will be greater than the 04 Civic. And in most place I know, the greater market value also means higher insurance and registration/taxes. My car has almost no "maket value" (thank god), so I only pay for liability insurance. No collision. I do this kinda extreme, I know, but less extreme applications of the same logic will also save lots of cash in the long run. We ALWAYS lose money on our cars. When we can reduce the losses we call it savings! Haha! :turtle:

Oh, I was planning on keeping my Civic until the '15 Fit values go down to below $5K...who knows, maybe I'll keep my Civic and have a Fit too...or maybe I'll be too happy with my Civic and just decide to keep it forever. :D

That’s how I ended up feeling about the Malibu I had... initially I didn’t like it and the more I drove it the fonder of it I became... 36-38mpg from a midsize car wasn’t too bad in my opinion...

Even though it's an automatic? :eek:

But yes, I'm not at all dissatisfied with my Civic; I'll just be even more satisfied with it once I reach 50 MPG. :cool:

Well, at the time I owned the car I had a badly herniated disc in my back and had genuine trouble working a clutch pedal, sometimes my leg would glitch out and lose the strength to hold down the pedal... and it was big and comfortable and handled well enough for such a bigger car than I was used to...

I didn’t like it at first but after I started caring about fuel and ecomodding it/hypermiling it, I became quite fond of it...

I bought my fiancé a 2006 Saturn Ion coupe with the 4T45 automatic and it isn’t too bad to drive... after my operation I can drive stick well enough again that I don’t wanna go back to two pedals unless something happens to my car and I can’t find something in manual...

Back again after a brief hiatus...just got a working OBDII Bluetooth adapter to work with the Torque app - in all about a cost of $23 instead of $90+ for a Scangauge that doesn't have as many features or as clean of a display.

Does it work? It sure does! My last tank was 37 MPG with a lot of short trips that prevented me from getting over 40. Well today was my first drive using Torque, and I managed to get 42 MPG despite a slight breeze blowing against me most of the time.

I have to places I go to on a daily basis, one of them is a more fuel efficient longer drive with fewer stops, while the other is a shorter drive with more stops, and it was on this shorter drive that I got 42 MPG. Hoping for over than tomorrow on my "longer" drive; should hopefully have no problems beating 40 MPG in this tank with the only mods being tires @ 41 PSI, torque app, and of course adjusting the nut behind the wheel.

Only waiting for my scheduled timing belt change before starting actual ecomodding.

50 MPG looks more promising than it did yesterday! :D

Honestly instrumentation is just as important, if not more than, as the other mods