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botsapper 01-04-2013 12:02 PM

Elio Motors, The Next Big Thing?!!...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Another startup, Elio Motors, a Phoenix-based company said it would hire 1,500 workers and to take over a GM Shreveport assembly plant to build a fuel-efficient three-wheeler. Their relatively attractive green vehicle is very car-like, fully enclosed with power windows, airbags and air conditioning. American-made and America-sourced, maybe the new Ford EcoBoost 1L triple, 2012 Engine of the Year? Their most attractive marketing come on is the very low and reasonable pricing, for ONLY $6800! Their marketing presence are small enough to be under the big news radar but they are aggressively using social media and for their appeal for...$100 Facebook reservation (and you get $50 discount, a limited edition T-shirt & bumper sticker), federal funding and state tax breaks of a capital investment of about, let's say a round number - 100 million dollars?! Maybe too good to be...real?!

Caveat.

Hope it is not a crowd funding marketing site for vaporware. In 1948, Tucker had an innovative 'guaranteed spots waiting list' funds marketing that raised $19 million but at least he produced 51 vehicles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-SawjhfwQk

Flakbadger 01-04-2013 12:13 PM

Kind of an annoying commercial, but the vehicle is awesome! I want one!
It'd be neat to see a longer version with doors for the driver and passenger.. It would make it a bit more attractive to the Average American Consumer.

Thank you for sharing this link!

NeilBlanchard 01-04-2013 01:17 PM

Looks reasonable - it is front wheel drive, but there are no details on the engine. It reminds me of a tandem Zap or the Myers Duo.

Ultra High Mileage Car : Elio Motors

No specs that I could find, other than it is FWD, has an 8 gallon tank, and comes in a choice of 7 colors...

They are saying it is a motorcycle, so if your state requires a motorcycle license, you will need one. Though, you will be able to take your driving test in the Elio, so no worries. Massachusetts requires a motorcycle license.

http://www.eliomotors.com/_livesite/...ors-shot05.jpghttp://www.eliomotors.com/_livesite/...ors-shot03.jpg

The price would be a breakthrough - I hope they can do it. Apparently the $100 deposit is nonrefundable, so I think prudent skepticism is in order. I hope they are legit, and come out with more technical details, and how they tested for the 84mpg claim, etc.

CigaR007 01-04-2013 02:42 PM

Their website is not working on my side. Anybody else having issues ?

flushed my DNS cache. Works now.

HydroJim 01-04-2013 03:04 PM

I like the concept. It's along the lines of what I wanted to do when I'm older. They need to work on the aerodynamics though. 84 mpg might not be enough to convince people to buy them. The price is definitely very good though. Hopefully it's not a scam

DieselX 01-04-2013 03:39 PM

That's cool.

darcane 01-04-2013 05:09 PM

Looks slick, but the lack of details makes me very concerned about it being real... Computer models predict 5-star crash ratings? That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling. For something that is going to start shipping in 2014, it seems like there are a lot of details to iron out.

Pics inside the engine compartment, interior, and rear suspension would be helpful, as well as details about the drivetrain and indications of there being more than just one prototype.

doclees 01-04-2013 06:23 PM

Yes at about $10k less than Lit motors I like it a lot. I'm sure I will be sad to find some crap chinese engine that you can't find parts for or handling like a shopping cart. Perhaps it will leak in rain like my jeep which is ok because you have drain holes in a Jeep. I'ts expected to take on water. Black please with some pin strips. At that price point I'd retro fit a proper engine if need be. If you can't get a web sit up in running how do you expect to convince people you can build this?

As with the Lit cycle this is a No Fart Zone!

NeilBlanchard 01-04-2013 11:33 PM

Okay, a few details they mention on their Facebook page: the engine is a 3 cylinder 1L 70HP and will be available in either automatic or manual shift. 60MPG Combined, 84MPG Highway, about 107MPH top speed.

serialk11r 01-05-2013 02:10 AM

Hmmm trike, would prefer 4 wheels. Why can't some company do some clever side ducting and pillar trickery to make a low drag actual car already?

I sat in a Lexus ES350 today and I realized that they lowered the roof quite a bit (apparently for aero as from the side it looks like it follows template pretty well), as I couldn't sit straight without my head hitting the roof. I'd rather lose some storage space than lose headroom.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 01-05-2013 02:31 AM

Reminds me the Corbin Sparrow...

DonBarletta 01-05-2013 09:04 AM

I've seen any number of these possible vehicles come and go in recent years. I would like to see at least one of them actually get to market, and be affordable. If this one became available, I'd certainly buy one. I've driven city cars for decades, and all I've ever needed are two seats - plus at its $6800 projected MSRP, this costs a lot less than many of the motorcycles I've owned in the last 40 years. Here's hoping that the Elio makes it!

doclees 01-05-2013 09:48 AM

Fine print says no guarantee that price point will be met. Deposit not secure. If they go belly up before production you could be out that money.

chrisgerman1983 01-05-2013 10:28 AM

Haha, I like how $1000 "all but guarantees" you a collectors edition... what the hell does that mean?

freebeard 01-06-2013 04:46 AM

I like it. But I'd pick a color that isn't named after a food. So silver or blue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HydroJim
I like the concept. It's along the lines of what I wanted to do when I'm older. They need to work on the aerodynamics though. 84 mpg might not be enough to convince people to buy them. The price is definitely very good though. Hopefully it's not a scam

I can see why you'd like it. What's the budget on your project? Someone was targeting $5K plus a lot of sweat equity. I think the aero is OK for the upright seating position, especially compared to Arcimoto, but it could be cleaned up a bit in the exposed front suspension.

From their website FAQ:
Quote:

Best of all, our option partners have some amazing technology for you to choose from, with really no limits! So you can look at your Elio as being a total reflection of you – and a fun and forever work in progress.
So, mass customization. I would expect something at SEMA 2013.

Edit:chrisgerman1983 -- Remember Preston Tucker?

kah 01-06-2013 05:09 AM

I actually think it's quite hideous! And it's not just that green colour, the whole shape of it is awkward, it doesn't look aerodynamic, it just has a "small" frontal area.

I think Lit Motors C-1 is much neater, and much more interesting!

BBC News - It will take a 'baby elephant' to knock over this bike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmzSSFG-Hrg

niky 01-06-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 348992)
Okay, a few details they mention on their Facebook page: the engine is a 3 cylinder 1L 70HP and will be available in either automatic or manual shift. 60MPG Combined, 84MPG Highway, about 107MPH top speed.

Sounds an awful lot like a Chery motor.

I've seen some similar Chinese three wheelers, but the fiberglass is unique. Time to go hunting on Alibaba...

doclees 01-06-2013 10:48 AM

yes I agree the Lit has better lines. Not $10k more of better lines for me. Although the Lit has some cool and impressive techno stuff I like simple and easy to fix. No info on the Lit as to that as of this time. I can rebuild an engine or tranny but what do I do with a gyro or in hub electric motor? The range on the Elio is only that of gas stations. I really wish these companies would list this information.

Ooo was this and older or newer video? $24k. Just lost my attention.

freebeard 01-06-2013 02:47 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUC3IGvmGwM

They have at least one running prototype, an idle assembly plant and a town full of unemployed autoworkers. Mr. Elio emphasizes no new technology. And their giving themselves lots of time until the delivery date.

So, maybe...

freebeard 01-06-2013 03:09 PM

Here's another video. One of those 'guy talking in a small space, over a screen cap of him mousing around on their website' things, but at least he didn't point a camcorder at the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFetGl7QXKQ

Do these videos autoplay? I can't seen 'em.
  • Rear wheel drive
  • Who does the X-star safety rating?
  • Compares $3K motorcycle and Edison VLC

How about this body on an XR3 chassis?

botsapper 01-06-2013 04:06 PM

At least the design of the 'tricycle' is done by a home-grown American company, Home Page.

- Elio Trike

- Elio Motors Design

NeilBlanchard 01-06-2013 06:47 PM

No they do not autoplay. You mush have a Flash Player issue on your system?

By the way, the second video is identical to the first.

I hope they have done their homework on engineering the Cg. I believe the 5-star rating is "an estimate" based on computer modeling. They would have to have built a lot of these for actually NHSA crash testing.

doclees 01-06-2013 06:51 PM

I feel a bit more hopeful now. So what would you folks do to improve it? I would add magnets. OK just one big one on a pole. So small and lite you could run right up behind those trailers, lock on and they would never know you were there. Now that's Hypermiling.

freebeard 01-06-2013 07:08 PM

I see the original semi-exposed rear wheel is now covered. Probably the lawyers.

The mpg performance compares to the Messerschmitt KR200: Wild bubble car gets 87 m.p.g.: Messerschmitt micro (with video) - National Classic Autos | Examiner.com

It had 10hp, 750cc and 56mph top speed. With 1000cc you could carry the airbags and stereo.

The last few hours I'm starting to really like the Kabinenroller. I think I'll start a new thread on it.http://i.imgur.com/VvS5q.jpg

Edit:
Quote:

No they do not autoplay. You mush have a Flash Player issue on your system?

By the way, the second video is identical to the first.
Thanks. Fixed and tested. I don't have a Flash™ Player issue because I don't let it anywhere near my browser. I do have a version of Chrome for 'emergencies', but normally it's Seamonkey with NoScript and Adblock Plus.

I can see lot of videos, including the ones I post that the forum software, vBulletin 3.8.7, fails on. I figure if someone needs to use Flash™ to simply dump video into a viewport (a DIV in HTML terms), they are probably spying on me.

2nd Edit: What's even stranger is, if I go to boingboing.net I can view embedded videos there; but if I go to YouTube to use full screen, they fail with a plug-in message. :confused:

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr 01-06-2013 08:08 PM

Since it qualifies for a motorcycle licensing, it might be actually also exempt from crash-tests. I believe the crash ratings were computer-predicted.

order99 01-06-2013 10:31 PM

I don't think it's required by law to crash-test either. But of the company insists on a 'predicted 5-star rating' then they made need to ruin a few dozen just to back up the claim. On the other hand they could just advertise as 'One of the safest motorcycles you will ever drive' and be home free on claims..

I'd love to see one up close and find out how they compare to the kits.

doclees 01-06-2013 10:44 PM

I'm guessing it looks like a FWD front engine beast. One of the videos said they didn't think you would want to drive it in snow. Why not? Do better than most FWD cars. Lite cars stay on top of snow and handle fine. Best snow car was my 63 midget. Floated like a tobaggan.

niky 01-06-2013 11:12 PM

The car I was thinking of... yeah... I remembered there was a FWD Chinese three-wheeler... turned out to be electric, so similar, but no cigar.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/105...Motorcycle.jpg

And the engine, without seeing it, sounds more like the Suzuki/Maruti 1.0. Which is a fantastically economical motor in its own right (I've done over 55 mpg in mixed traffic in a Maruti Alto) and relatively clean. The Alto can already do 60 mpg on the highway, so 65-70 mpg with a more streamlined body should be no sweat.

It's a cheap motor (built in India), and better than anything you can get from China for the same money.

Still, until there's a running production unit, it's all just talk...

freebeard 01-07-2013 02:35 AM

Quote:

One of the videos said they didn't think you would want to drive it in snow. Why not?
I believe that was the MPGomatic video. He's speculating that it's rear-wheel drive. I agree that it has the proportions of a front engined car (compare the old and New Beetle). A picture of the chassis would be instructive. I'm more interested in that than the engine.

Here are two illustrations from the Genesis website.
http://i.imgur.com/o8glt.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/Vov9F.png

Something changed along the way; the cowl height was raised 34". I suspect it was to improve ingress and egress. The VW 1-liter car turned into a door-slammer too, I think I'd prefer a gullwing door on a tandem; if nothing else, the side impact protection could be improved.

niky 01-07-2013 03:35 AM

Maybe they were counting on a lower, smaller engine. If the engine is indeed a Suzuki K10B, then that's a DOHC motor that sits tall in the bay. I've done measurements on the motor before, on a lark for a project, and it would likely fit in something that narrow, with transmission... it's about a meter across with the tranny. All that would be needed would be to shorten one of the axles. There isn't even an intermediate driveshaft to the far-side axle, so it's a pretty simple operation.

freebeard 01-07-2013 05:02 AM

That could be. Is the Suzuki engine sourced from India? Notice the fineness ratio of the earlier design. It looks like the wheelbase is shortened as well.

But overall, I prefer the design elements of the VW Nils:
http://i.imgur.com/PfCFk.jpg

Especially the useable trunk over the Mustang-style bubble top on the Elios. Can you see this as a 3-wheeler? Those A-pillars look like they'd have a 5-star rating. It's even got bumpers.

radioranger 01-07-2013 05:55 AM

Reasons for a trike include not having to meet the car registration in most states, big draw to some , why not a small diesel, run on only veggie,

niky 01-07-2013 07:40 AM

Because a small, bespoke diesel compliant with vehicular emissions standards would likely push the price too high. Even if you have a small twin-cylinder, direct injection adds over a thousand dollars to the price tag (replacement injectors, brand new, are 600-800 dollars), on top of the extra cost of the turbocharger and stouter engine block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebeard (Post 349416)
That could be. Is the Suzuki engine sourced from India? Notice the fineness ratio of the earlier design. It looks like the wheelbase is shortened as well.

But overall, I prefer the design elements of the VW Nils:
http://i.imgur.com/PfCFk.jpg

Especially the useable trunk over the Mustang-style bubble top on the Elios. Can you see this as a 3-wheeler? Those A-pillars look like they'd have a 5-star rating. It's even got bumpers.

That is certainly pur-ty. Depends on where the motor is. But maybe a narrowed rear end would work.

-

The K10B is built in India by Maruti for Suzuki. Cheap motor with solid engineering, variable valve timing and Euro IV compliance. Besides that, you've got the Chevy 1.0 and the Hyundai/Kia Kappa 1.0, but those are made in Korea and might be more expensive for an outsider to purchase.

NeilBlanchard 01-07-2013 08:30 AM

The Elio Trikke(?) is front wheel drive - you can see the drive shafts in the video and/or the photos.

When the second person is onboard is when it will be the most "Cg challenged". The double lane accident avoidance maneuver test (which is taken at 45+mph) is what did in the Aptera;even though the front wheels on that were almost 7' apart, and the battery mass was low and forward as possible. The early prototypes were probably fine, but as they went to the "production ready" S0-1 they gained a whole lot of weight, and when the front suspension rolled to the side, the rear wheel was lifted onto an outer corner.

The Messerschmidt some linked to earlier in this thread was very unstable. The Cg must be as close to the two front wheels as possible; and they may regret shortening the wheelbase. The longer concept would be lower aero drag and more stable, all else being equal.

freebeard 01-07-2013 08:37 AM

Like this?
http://i.imgur.com/z6yTI.jpg

I did a brain dump into a new thread at:http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post349438

Edit: NeilBlanchard -- Are you up early, or late? :)

doclees 01-07-2013 09:42 AM

I like to imagine a perfect world where american vehicles are actually made in america. All the parts. I also like to imagine a perfect world where politicians no longer exist and have been replaced by statesmen. Back to reality. I would trust an India made motor more than a chicom one. They kept the Royal-Endfield going and now it is even better than ever. Plus they they have their own line dance style. Almost rednecks. I wonder what a curry western will look like?

freebeard 01-07-2013 10:35 AM

Imagine there's no countries... Your going to love 3D printers.

And have you seen any Tamil science fiction?

NeilBlanchard 01-07-2013 10:45 AM

The Elio vehicle has been in the works for at least 3 years now:

Any love for NON ev tadpoles? Elio Motors - ApteraForum.com - Unofficial Aptera Car Forum

I am up early - and I have the flu...

niky 01-07-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 349437)
The Elio Trikke(?) is front wheel drive - you can see the drive shafts in the video and/or the photos.

When the second person is onboard is when it will be the most "Cg challenged". The double lane accident avoidance maneuver test (which is taken at 45+mph) is what did in the Aptera;even though the front wheels on that were almost 7' apart, and the battery mass was low and forward as possible. The early prototypes were probably fine, but as they went to the "production ready" S0-1 they gained a whole lot of weight, and when the front suspension rolled to the side, the rear wheel was lifted onto an outer corner.

The Messerschmidt some linked to earlier in this thread was very unstable. The Cg must be as close to the two front wheels as possible; and they may regret shortening the wheelbase. The longer concept would be lower aero drag and more stable, all else being equal.

Oh, I know it's FWD... Was asking about the VW Nils.

The Aptera avoidance test was a disaster in more ways than one. I seem to recall a door popping open... How did they fix it? Anti-roll bars? Stiffer springs?

botsapper 01-07-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 349437)
The Elio Trikke(?) is front wheel drive - you can see the drive shafts in the video and/or the photos.

When the second person is onboard is when it will be the most "Cg challenged". The double lane accident avoidance maneuver test (which is taken at 45+mph) is what did in the Aptera;even though the front wheels on that were almost 7' apart, and the battery mass was low and forward as possible. The early prototypes were probably fine, but as they went to the "production ready" S0-1 they gained a whole lot of weight, and when the front suspension rolled to the side, the rear wheel was lifted onto an outer corner.

The Messerschmidt some linked to earlier in this thread was very unstable. The Cg must be as close to the two front wheels as possible; and they may regret shortening the wheelbase. The longer concept would be lower aero drag and more stable, all else being equal.


...that's why there is such a thing called 'The Golden Rule of Trike Design'. The first recumbent tadpole bike I made had very peculiar center-of-gravity shift dynamics, especially in hard turns. It had a penchant of quickly tipping me over. The Cg was largely biased towards the front axle but apparently it wasn't enough. The trike's rear passenger/cargo load will compromise spirited driving. Unless it has a tilt-turning geometry but still...follow the rule or else.

https://www.deferredprocrastination....-trike-design/


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