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-   -   First time I've seen a change in toe quantified, Car and Driver 1st gen Insight test. (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/first-time-ive-seen-change-toe-quantified-car-12358.html)

fusion210 02-20-2010 08:26 AM

First time I've seen a change in toe quantified, Car and Driver 1st gen Insight test.
 
Quote:

We began to suspect there might be more to the Insight's rather touchy behavior than just the tires and decided to check the toe settings. The theory, set forth by Squire Csere, was that with mpg as a be-all, end-all priority, Honda probably selected toe specs to augment same. And so it proved to be. Insights are delivered with zero toe at the front, minimizing rolling resistance but exaggerating the car's response to pavement irregularities and the other variables listed above. We experimented with a little front toe-in—just an eighth of an inch—and found that it had a profound effect on fuel economy, which deflated from 68.6 mpg to 63.2 at a steady-state 60 mph
from
2000 Honda Insight - Long-Term Road Test - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

Almost a 7.5% drop in setting from zero toe to 1/8" toe in just the front. Inversely it would provide a gain of 8.5%. Huge!

I can't say how thorough their testing was to get those numbers, but it shows promise.

bootchk 02-20-2010 10:17 AM

Honda CRX also calls for zero toe-in +- .08 inch.

How uncommon is zero toe-in?

I can attest to Insight twitchy, but mostly on grooved pavement.

MadisonMPG 02-20-2010 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootchk (Post 162002)
Honda CRX also calls for zero toe-in +- .08 inch.

How uncommon is zero toe-in?

I can attest to Insight twitchy, but mostly on grooved pavement.

Most all cars that are not on the extreme end for fuel economy have toe in.

jamesqf 02-20-2010 01:05 PM

Interesting read, though I think their driving is majorly at fault. With mine (bought used with 50K miles) I'm at 71 mpg average over 6 years/85K miles - much of that driving in/over the Sierra Nevada, too.

I was, however, amused by one almost prescient comment: "Don't even think about dialing a cell phone while driving this car."

Clev 02-20-2010 02:03 PM

Zero toe is a common mod for EV'ers. I guess they figure that they go slow enough that any extra twitchiness wouldn't affect them too much.

Piwoslaw 02-20-2010 02:27 PM

The less toe, the better the efficiency? Nature already knows this: Many members of the Vadoma tribe in Zimbabwe are born with only two toes and supposedly can walk great distances without tiring.

gone-ot 02-20-2010 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fusion210 (Post 161998)
Almost a 7.5% drop in setting from zero toe to 1/8" toe in just the front. Inversely it would provide a gain of 8.5%.

...an excellent "rule-of-thumb" pair of numbers to know about!

...this info aught to be captured permanently (sticky?)

saand 09-03-2010 11:10 AM

Has anyone tried this

Starting with a stock car and modified the toe of their wheels to be 0.
I would like to knoe if anyone has good results for this mod. I have changed my power steering rack which affects the toe of the wheels so my car isn't stock so i cant see the before and after of this mod.

I am interested in putting this mod into the mod wiki list but i might not bother if nobody has tried it and gotten favourable results.

Fr3AkAzOiD 09-03-2010 03:09 PM

Heck of a post rez but glad to see it as I missed it first time around.

I also am wondering about what improvements there would be.
I have a new set of tires that I need put on in a few weeks and was debating about an alignment anyway.

Anyone know how to find out what the factory toe and camber settings on a car would be?

EdKiefer 09-03-2010 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr3AkAzOiD (Post 192301)
Heck of a post rez but glad to see it as I missed it first time around.

I also am wondering about what improvements there would be.
I have a new set of tires that I need put on in a few weeks and was debating about an alignment anyway.

Anyone know how to find out what the factory toe and camber settings on a car would be?

Try your owners manual spec section .

Honda Accord also has toe =0, camber =0 for front .

I can tell ya from past experience if you adjust an older car with stock 1/8 toe in to 0 it will feel touchy, when driving straight, no crown affects (not a good feel overall ) .


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