Ford's ecomodding plans (they even have an internal ecomodding forum)
 

I've seen a flurry of news articles in the past few days about Ford making the largest recent gains in fuel economy among the North American manufacturers.

What's Ford been up to?

I got a chuckle out of reading that they have an internal, employee-only EcoModder-type forum, where efficiency ideas are posted & good ones rewarded:

Maybe that explains the FoMoCo registered EM members.... Nah.

The company is taking a four-pronged approach to efficiency:

• design efficiency ("putting engineers and senior management through a Design for Energy Efficiency training course"

• aerodynamics

• weight reduction ("aiming to reach reductions of 250 to 750 pounds in the mid-term")

• "high-value" fuel economy technology (eg. optimizing "deceleration fuel shut-off and electric power assisted steering")

Here's an interesting claim maybe worth dissecting:

http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/autos/...N-2010-4SA.jpg

Source, and some other snippets here:
Ford's Multi-Pronged Fuel Economy Strategy: How The Fusion S Lost 125 Pounds | GreenBiz.com

What? And we weren't invited!

That's cool. I wish more manufacturers go forward with initiatives like that.

I bet the guy who got the biggest compensation was the one who posted a link to ecomodder.com ;)

If I were a MoFoCo employee, (oops - did I say that?) I'd suggest that they rummage through their junk pile of crushed electric Rangers, and bring that technology back to market. It's hard for these companies to backpedal and say that it can't be done, after they've already done it in a production vehicle.

( I guess I blew it for that job interview.)

Cool.

Very interesting!

17% eh? Wonder what numbers they fudged...

EDIT: Since when is it OK to introduce technology and knowledge that's been around the block for 20 years and make it seem like it's somehow new and innovative?

Christ -

*Shrug*. I don't think there is a law against it. That's what made Fiat the "Eco-Car-Company" of Europe. Grab the low hanging fruit, run with it, and make the Fiat Panda.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Alessi_001.jpg

If high MPG becomes the new standard, then think of all the cars that will have "baseline potential" for better MPG? Orrrrrrr, a smaller window for improvement, :( ... :confused: ... :) .

CarloSW2

Carlos -

Look at how many already have baseline potential, though. It took drivers like us to actually get anywhere with it, eh?

They're just going to do exactly what we've been doing for years, and call it their own "innovation". It pisses me off because they're avoiding the bigger issue of making the engines themselves more fuel efficient, and claiming increased efficiency on the low-note by making modifications to each chassis individually, thus wasting more money and man-hours.

The same engine gets used in 15 different cars.. why not work the engine one time to make it more efficient, instead of working a chassis 15 times but leaving the engine alone?

I DEMAND A RECOUNT!

That's exactly what I thought:)

I think Ford of N.America could just look over it's European brother's shoulder to get an idea of which low-hanging friut is already available.
This shows how well oriented Ford's management is: starting a contest for their workers for efficiency improvementss kind of hints that they've run out of ideas. As if almost 100 years worth of scientific testing and papers has already been tried and didn't work. Anyone who has seen Kamm's research, or Hucho's book, will win the reward. It's hard to believe that management doesn't know that. Or maybe they are fed up with their own engineers and want to show them that pretty much anyone can do better. It's not the engineers that are doing bad, it's the marketing department, which takes a streamlined econocar, jacks up the suspension, triples the size of the grille, adds fat tires and a spoiler and says "This is going to sell much better".

All vehicle stylists should be required to take a quick course on aerodynamics. That way, they're more likely to create a design language that doesn't drive the engineers crazy. Ford does a good job of this, but I'd still like to see concept cars with rear wheel skirts and this body style:

http://www.autoinfection.com/wp-cont...rosstour-3.jpg

WOW

Well I guess their trying.:rolleyes:

ideas
 

Perhaps we could hire a 7-year-old to hack into their site and rip-off all their tasty eco tidbits.

Do you think their ideas are worth much more than ours?

Piwoslaw -

I am sure they are quoting us. Well, maybe not me, :o .

CarloSW2

Piwoslaw -

No, probably not, except it's fun to hack, and 7 year olds can't be tried as adults for cyber-crime, I think. :)

Besides, if a 7 Year-Old can hack Ford's systems, he's probably got a job waiting for him somewhere special anyway once he's "of age". (CIA loves hackers.)

No, I don't even think they even try to come up with new ideas, other then lets see what the Asian/European car manufacturers are doing and change it a little and call it ours.:rolleyes:

This thread has turned to complete ****. :mad:

The engineers know damn well how to deliver economical vehicles. The thing is, engineering doesn't get to build whatever they want. Mgmt holds those reins. :rolleyes:

Have you worked on any of the American cars lately? They can't even engineer something poorly. If management is holding the reins that tightly their doing a great job at destroying the American Automobile.:mad:

Maybe that's their goal... they sold their soul to some other country that will soon own the automobile market. The "C" word.

Canadia? ;)

Just what I was wondering:rolleyes:

The ideas are already there. They're just trying to convince the car buying public that they're being responsive and innovative. The problem is, the American car buying public has proven itself to be pretty gullible.

Hummer, Escalade, Navigator, Expedition, etc...

I've worked on my OWN American cars and they are no worse than the foreign stuff and in some ways they are better i.e. less rapeage on parts prices, easy availability.

What American car that you worked on lately do you have in mind?

Oh yes mgmt does hold the reins. They make engineering and purchasing milk the price down on every component down to the fractions of a penny.

If a sizeable enough segment of the market- the new car buying paying customer market- was interested in spending money on ecocars... they'd build them. It's that simple.

Frank -

I have to at least partially disagree there. I'm not saying anything about conspiracies and the like, but I do believe that there are other factors at play, some of which might not be under the fairest of circumstances.

The American car companies gave up on small economy cars because they could not make enough money on them to pay their costs.

GM's cost per vehicle is supposed to be 6k less after the bankruptcy and reorganization.

Hard to make 6k on a 10 k car, so their solution was to build over optioned behemoths an make enough profit to keep shareholders happy, but like the heroin addict, that is a short sighted business philosophy.

The Japanese competition had no such incentives and their home market demanded small efficient cars. Corporate and labor cooperation insured success, without the adversarial relationship of US companies.

20 years ago there was no comparison of quality between American and Japanese cars. Don't take my word for it just read an old Consumer Reports frequency of repair records.
Also look at resale values, which are a fairly good indication of perceived value.

Now, that all being said, my Pop bought an 83 thunderbird that had so few problems it would compare favorably to any car made anywhere on the planet. There are always exceptions to the general feeling of superior Japanese quality, but for those of us who have been around for 50 plus years, Japanese quality used to be a joke.

Now China suffers from quality issues which are their biggest problem today with the highly technical components they must improve to become competitive in the world auto market. When they get it right, watch out for them. Korea had the same issues and got it right and they can now compete with just about anyone.

Japanese auto quality has dropped recently, while American has advanced light years ahead of where we were in the 70s and early 80s. A friend of mine who manages a GM dealership service department told me their warranty claims have dropped something like 90% in the last 15 years. Compared to the Vega era the difference is incalculable.

Today we see the result of generations of adversarial relationships between management and labor, as well as an attitude towards the customer that could never survive decent competition. I have seen sabotage on American assembly lines when a strike became inevitable. When you trash the customers product, because you are PO'ed at management fro trying to control costs, you deserve to be unemployed, and the management deserves the same.


regards
Mech

Oh yes, Frank is right. How about $500 for a Tacoma air filter housing!!!!!!

Go the the junk yard and they want $150 for something that cost $3 to make.

regards
Mech

Not around here. Junkyards around here have fairly decent prices.

As far as dealer parts, the same could be some for certain American cars. A steel 1/4 panel for my mini-van is $888.75.

I could probably pick up a 1/4 section for your van at the pick and pay for $50 Christ. The Tacoma was 2 years old and the salvage yards here know what the new price is and price theirs accordingly.

Rust free.

Some of them are sitting on land that is about 1 million an acre with Route 17 frontage, and they pay a lot of property taxes.

They usually crush anything over 10 years old unless the body style is current for less than 8 years.

Local economics and their overhead control prices to a certain degree. This area has weathered the recession fairly well and prices for used parts for newer cars run about 1/4 of new cost.

The example I gave was from my friends body shop which does a couple mil a year in work and has good connections with the local salvage yards.

Could be a bussiness opportunity if you can get those kinds of prices on recent vehicle used parts.

regards
Mech

I like Old's post except for the mention of Consumer Reports; they have promoted average products as "superior" and superior products as "average" or "poor" just too often to be taken seriously. If I had a bird cage I would use CR to line it.

...I'll just say the obvious: big butts (and egos) need big vehicles to ride in.

Old Mechanic -

I know what point you were making, but like i said, to a given extent, the same can be said for any manufacturer. American or otherwise.

PS - I never buy retail parts. I know what I got works... it's used.

Regarding my Van, I've got a hookup with one of the local yards that I can pull my own full 1/4 panel (drill the spot welds and pull it out) for $40 if I need it.

I'm waiting on the insurance company to tell me if they're going to cover the incident or not. If they do, it's a total loss, and I get a check for $2500.

Wow, I'm surprised at the reaction here to this news. Ford reaches out to their employees for ideas about several of the favorite topics here, rewards those employees for good ideas, and sets up systems that encourage open discussion and free thinking about efficiency. I should think there would be, at worst, a sense of guarded optimism.

Speaking for myself, I think it's great news.

Nobody's saying it's not great news, we're questioning the true motive. There is, if the past is an indication of the future, some ulterior motive.

We only question exactly what that motive is.

Uhhh, selling cars. Even when they were building moving horror shows like the Pinto and (early) Explorer, selling cars was the motivation.

I admit to being a bit of a 'Ford guy', having grown up loving racing and in the 60's, when Ford and Shelby were joining forces and beating the world; I still think the original GT40 is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. But these days it really does seem to me that FoMoCo has their act pretty well together. Truly innovative advances, real products instead of delayed promises, not having to take government handouts. Pretty impressive to me, considering it's the same company that gave us the Mustang II. But like I said, I'm a bit biased.

I hope that's all it is. It just seems more like an inept shot at getting attention from "upper" echelon, i.e. Gov't.

Any time someone does something that draws attention to themselves, the question "why" will always come to light. And there will always be that guy defending it to the end days.

This is Ford we're talking about here. I doubt if they care what the current Gov't thinks about their goals. And if Ford can make money selling efficient cars I doubt the stockholders will care either. Exploders were a big thing back in the day. (They're fatter and not as popular now.)

Companies have to sell what the customers will buy. It's pretty dang simple.

If improved FE sells, who cares how they discover how to do it. To us ecomodders it makes total sense in alot of ways (environmental, national security, etc.) to improve FE to the maximum extent possible. We want modern Metro XFi's and Civic VX's. The rest of the US market wants more refinement, bling, gadgets, power and space than those examples. As more of an afterthought they want to know they are getting good mileage, like 30+. Ecomodders want like 50+.

The other part of the deal is the perceived value by the customer. The freakish Smart paves the way for small cars being a safety issue with alot of safety marketing, but if it was priced at under $10K everyone would think it was a joke. If the Fiesta contains adequate features and delivers a quality experience at it's price point it will provide a good value for the customer, oh and it will get 30+ mpg. The new Ford is getting good at the car game.

They made what the customer really wanted with the Mustang in the '60s, the Taurus in the 80's. The stupid SUV's in the '90s. It just so happens that quality small cars align with ecomodder philosophy (thank goodness) right now and Ford just happens to have a good shot at satisfying much of it with the Fiesta, Fusion and improvements with other models. Let's just hope the corporate philosophy holds to fuel efficiency like Honda used to and Toyota does often, it will probably serve them well in the future.

worth
 

Well after all,they did create a producible Cd 0.137 car two decades ago.Perhaps they've been noodling in the meantime.Let's hope so.

Having owned 2 pintos, I genuinely can't see what peoples' problem is with them. They were perfectly pleasant to drive, comfortable, useful little machines. And both of mine lasted >20 years without exploding once, even the one that died in a high speed collision. Just because Nader is in love with the sound of his own voice doesn't mean everything (or anything) he says has merit.
And the only explorers that don't suck are the early ones, that actually still had the flexible suspension and small exterior dimensions necessary to visit the great outdoors & fit between trees & other obstacles. Which is presumably why someone would own a 4x4 right? What kind of dipstick owns a 4x4 just to drive around town?

Oh, yeah, the kind of dipstick who blames their 4x4 for not being a good in-town car.... ;)

I do agree that the motivation of companies is to be profitable, and the 2 most significant ways to be profitable are sell more and spend less. Anyone who still believes that car companies are sitting on 200mpg magic carburetors or whatever has a very active imagination. Ford, and every other company, wants to sell you exactly the car you want - they're not holding back on anything cool unless it's a huge cost or a safety risk.

The 2.3 used in the Pinto among other things was a very good engine. Other than being rust buckets- and EVERYTHING was in those days- and the a/t models being saddled with old school transmissions- as EVERYTHING was in those days- I'm not aware of any huge shortcoming. Oh, they explode you say? What were the odds of any particular Pinto exploding- 1:1,000,000?

hahah you silly northerners and your wild stories about cars "rusting"! :D:D:D cars don't rust!!! they just fade and their upholstery cracks!! ;)

We are silly. Make that stupid. I'm sampling the Cali coast for 3 months this winter. So far, it is quite the improvement.