Found a 2011 Nissan Leaf for $5,900
 

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1527712149

I said i was going to try to find one, the problem is I only put aside $4,500 to buy one and I will only have about that much at least until the next gun show, which is in march, tax return time, or if I can get our pos VW sold.
Is that really how much they are worth?

Also does anyone know how much one of these can tow?
I know hitches are available, but haven't quite been able to find any info.

The car is 100 miles away but I'm not worried about getting it home, I already have the EV accessories every electric car owner will wish that they had some point, a diesel truck, car trailer and portable gen sets.

This particular car is a 2011, has 45k miles which seems like a lot.
It doesn't say that it comes with a level 2 charger, so I'm assuming it doesn't.
It would be the newest car I ever owned by a lot.

Edit, I ended up getting a better car with the same miles, better options and a warranty replaced battery for a little less. But I had to get it shipped from Illinois.
Most of the cars I was finding were from down south and had damaged or questionable drive batteries.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1547013110

Stole that from here:
https://ecomodder.com/forum/588163-post35.html

I would pass on that deal unless the battery was replaced.

Why?

45k doesn't seem like a lot to me. (but I haven't put a lot of research in to it)

The cheapest I've seen here was ~$10k (8k US), notably cheaper than any other...I asked why. It had a lot more miles on it than 45k, and the battery range was at about 75%...that's why it was cheaper. (and it sold within a few days of my discovering it).

Don't they have a big warranty for the battery?

How many "bars" remain? The right-side white and red bars represent battery health, and 12 represents nearly 100% battery health, with about 15% drop in capacity for every missing bar. I've heard it's possible to reset this gauge, so you should get a bluetooth OBDII device and look at battery health with Leafspy.

I think prices will drop more as the Leaf II begins selling in quantity and people trade in or sell their gen I. Maybe I'll get one in 6 months to a year.

The level 1 EVSE that comes with the Leaf is pretty easy to safely modify to a level 2 EVSE.

I'm looking for a '13 or newer since Nissan replaced the grid heater with a heat pump, and doubled the power of the onboard charger.

Tow capacity is always dependent on driving conditions, how slow you can get away with going, and comfort level. I'd probably go up to 2k lbs if the distance is short and traffic was minimal.

Agreed nearly 6,000 is too much, not going to buy it because I can't right now, would have to talk them down some.

All very good questions, I will start making a list.

I would love to mod the on board charger to level 2.
But can it still use 120v after the mod?
Because at my last house I had multiple out side 240v receptacles, for welders, plasma cutter and air compressors and I am working on it doing the same at our new house.

If it matches your driving routine, I don't think you'd regret it. 50 miles or less/day would be about perfect, I guess.

The Leaf battery warranty in the USA is 8 years or 100K miles.

Personally I would look for a 2013 or later in the SV or SL trim due to the heat pump and 6.6 kw charger.

The 2013 up ones are still $7,000 to 9,000 and up.
The whole idea is I pay cash, I don't have $10,000+ laying around any more.
Then I wouldn't want to spend 9,000+ to buy a car that based on its previous years models could lose up to 4,000 in value in as little as 3 years.
I have no interest in something poised to loses value that fast.
If I did stuff like that I would be broke like everyone else.

Plus if I need more range I have the ultimate range extender, a diesel truck and car trailer with generator.

Cheapest Leaf in Holland (2011, 81,509 km) goes for €9,900 including tax; that would be $12,300 US.
Gas at about $8 a gallon makes them worthwhile.

Yes, you'd just have to make an adapter cable.

(3.0)CONVERTING a LEAF LEVEL 1 (12AMP) CHARGER TO a LEVEL 2 (12AMP) CHARGER: 14 Steps

Leaf batteries from 2011 to early 2013 are notoriously terrible

If that car was anywhere but the UP of Michigan it has likely lost at least 3 battery bars , likely more.

Nissan does not warranty capacity out of the box so the 8/100 warranty only covers completely failed batteries.

In other words that battery could only hold half a charge and per Nissan it would be fine.

Now if that car was under $5k with original battery I might consider it since my drive to work is only 5 miles but much further than that a 2011 Leaf might be useless in the winter.

That said if the battery was replaced it’s worth the price.

A leaf is definitely not bulletproof like a volt

My wife's drive to work is like 4 miles and mine is maybe 12.
I would like to use it to go to the next nearest town which is 50 miles round trip.
It appears to be short between 1 and 1.5 battery bars, and is getting 3.3 miles per KWH. It may not be from around these parts.
Winters are short here, but can be briefly burtal.
I do have a garage that will be partially heated by my coal furnace.

You've probably read it, but this is super helpful for seeing what Nissan changed over the years:

https://insideevs.com/used-nissan-leaf-buying-guide/

You won't get 50 miles round trip in a 2011 Leaf with the original battery.

My commute to work is 50 miles round trip. Starting with a full battery and preheated cabin my Spark EV uses about 30% of the battery capacity to run the heater on low to keep the windows from fogging. (Temp set to 72F, fan speed to 1 of 5, outside temp about 40 to 45F) That is why you don't want a Leaf with the electric resistance heater.

Just for reference: My Spark is basically new. It is rated at 82 miles range. I get 90 miles in the summer even running the A/C but only 60 in the winter running minimal heat in mild Portland winters. (EDIT: For reference the 2011 LEAF was only rated at 72 miles when new)

I know you want to pay cash, I do the same. However I would wait and save until I could afford a later model LEAF as it is a much better car. The early LEAFs will drop in value even more when the batteries are out of warranty. A replacement costs $5500 though it is the later battery that is better.

The LEAF is also the only 1st gen EV I would personally buy. Nissan designed a car to be sold the the masses and has sold about 300K. The other OEMs converted a current car into a EV to sell the 2K per year required for CARB's EV mandate. I have zero confidence I would be able to get parts for my Spark out of warranty and there is no aftermarket support. That is why I leased my Spark even though I could have purchased it for only $11K.

Thanks for the chuckle! :)

FYI, potentially useful: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...eaf-33877.html

At this point, I've owned most of the eco cars I've wanted to try. I'd love an EV (mostly for the novelty of the driving experience), but practically speaking, it wouldn't suit my driving patterns. (I tend to drive mostly highway excursions, and bike most of my local trips.)

Unfortunately, like you, I'm disinclined to piss away money just for the heck of it. The only way I'd be getting an EV is if I found a deal I was confident I could re-sell later and at least break even.

Good luck on your hunt!

As a counterpoint - I love vehicles with high depreciation. I generally buy 2-4 year old car in good shape that is coming off lease and keep it for 10 years. Residual value is meaningless if you don't expect to sell a car shortly after you purchase it.

I leased the Spark EV because:

1. The $100 a month $0 down lease rate was too good to pass up.
2. Much better EVs were just around the corner
3. I don't trust GM to support the Spark long term because it is a compliance car

The lease was a really cheap way to try out an EV.

What I have found is that the 60 mile winter range is OK for my use (commuting 50 miles a day) but about a 100 mile range would make the car much more useful. I personally don't need or want to pay for 200+ miles of range in an EV.

I missed everything after gun show, I'm liking a AR in 450 bushmaster so I can use it deer hunting during shotgun season here.

Obviously I would not pay anywhere near 6,000 for it. Because I don't have that much and I don't think it's worth it.

I basically wouldn't buy earlier than '13 unless the battery was replaced, or the car was being sold extremely cheap. It seems many people have experienced capacity loss near to what is warrantied by Nissan, but not quite enough to get a replacement (44% loss before 5 years). The guy below describes a good sense for what to expect capacity wise from a used Leaf.

bar loss capacity
1 85.00%
2 78.75%
3 72.50%
4 66.25%

https://insideevs.com/wp-content/upl...5/12/leaf3.jpg

I'm thinking the current market value for one is close to around $5,000. So what I'm willing to pay and market value are not that far off from each other.

Then there is dreaded battery replacement.
But it looks like old leaf battery modules are pretty valuable. There are 48 of them in the car and it would appear they could be broken down and sold for at least $40 each.

Never hurts to throw offers out and see what sticks. Most CL posters expect to bargain if they don't state the price is firm. The key to most any good deal, whether it's a car or a wife is to shop the market and be persistent.

I'm actually surprised the gen I Leaf prices are holding the value they are considering the impending gen II. I'd like to see a '13 down around $5k. They aren't particularly fast, the range is limited, and on top of that, many people are seeing significant battery degradation.

It's been about 3 years since I had a serious interest in buying a Leaf, which is just about the normal amount of time I wait before actually buying.

The only thing I don't like about the 2011 is the standard 3.3kw 240v charger.
If I could find one the DC fast charger I would pay market value or a little above.

Has anyone discovered a way to tie in external power to a leaf while underway?
I read several posts on the subject but they always ends up devolving into an argument lasting dozens of forum pages
about generators being bad for the environment, people can't afford it or that it's stupid.
I'm not going to say I disagree with any of that but I do have a 17.5kw generator trailer and that got me thinking.

As with all EVs charging disables the drive function to prevent driving off while the charger is still attached. To charge on the go you need to get around that feature - but you must only disable it when charging internally.

Motorized trailers have been discussed as you can charge a Leaf by towing itso pushing should work too.

Yeah there's pusher trailers, but I do not have one.
I do have that generator trailer.

The drive disable while charging is pretty smart and it seems like a good idea. My wife immediately comes to mind.

I use a bock heater so often "unplugging before driving away" is already second nature to me.

I would think the best way to charge while underway is to do something akin to DCFC; tapping directly in to the battery and skipping the onboard charger, which probably contains the logic that disables vehicle motion. If you tap into the battery directly, you bypass any circuitry that would disable vehicle motion.

I was thinking the easiest way might be to introduce some charge to the brake regeneration circuit, but it doesn't look like anyone has done this.

How many Miles per minute can your gen charge parked. 70ish mile range how many miles per minute can you recharge with your current gen set.

My 17.5kw is only limited by the charger.
I think a CHAdeMO charger in in 10kw would be appropriate.
I'm assuming worse case so average 10kw while driving, so the little 3.3kw L2 charger on the 2011 leaf would net 1 minute of driving time per 3 minute of charge and the 10kw charger would be about a 1 for 1 charge versus drive time.

If I'm not mistaken, this is how some Rav4 EV (original) owners did it. I'm sure I saw something about an owner who tapped into his home's high current photovoltaic array to juice up the car.

Early LEAFs are quicker than later 13+ models (they reduced power to claim a bit more range), but I doubt there's a 2011 or '12 on the original battery that has as many miles as a 2012 i-MiEV does today. I Plugshare-hosted an early LEAF with only 26 miles of range last week! Meanwhile, my 2012 i-MiEV with 82,000 miles on the odometer still has all 16 bars o' charge and reliably delivers the full 61 rated miles. (I've done a lot of fast-charging and turtled at least once per month after getting to know the car.) In short, Mitsu used a more heat-tolerant chemistry with lower energy density and put it in an air-conditioned box, and they only advertised 80% of the initial battery capacity, while Nissan took a shortcut to higher power and rated range. You can guess which one won in the marketplace....
I picked up another i-MiEV with 43k miles on the odometer for my mom this Christmas, got it for $5k and of course, it delivers full rated range as well.

I'm curious as to why Nissan still does not employ any active thermal management in their gen II, when the gen I has proved to suffer premature battery wear. Given their longer history, they should be leading the technology, not lagging behind.

I think the Leaf battery issues in 2015+ are over-exaggerated. (Knock on wood)

2015 is one of the only good years
2016+ the 30kwhr batteries suck
2013 and down all the batteries suck

I have low expectations as it is.

We have a lot of Ev's in the Portland OR area, the prior gen Leafs are piling up at both the big Nissan dealers, folks that are just finishing their 3 year lease are being offered the ability to buy them out at between 5500 and 6500 bucks..

I have a Honda Fit EV with a 80mile battery (at 72F) and for my 20 mile round trip commute its fine. I also only have level 2 charging, and I find it totally adequate, 2.5 hours to recharge from dead seems to work out for it being a strictly second car.. Especially since I seldom run it below 30% charge..

My rental house is about 95% done and I have some one in it, ( it's a 2 family unit). My cash on hand is $11,000 so I can buy the car and cover anything that comes up with the house short of it catching on fire.
I think in found one and I'm trying to clarify if it had a CHAdeMO charger option. If it has the CHAdeMO I will give him the $5,700 he wants because it's worth it to me. If not I'm going to haggle over it.

I got it. It's from up north, has 46,000 miles, a warranty replaced battery as of 2014, CHAdemMO,
What caught my eye is this one has the highest miles to numbers of bars ratio of any leaf for sale that I have seen.

Wooo, congrats.

Congrats!!