solid state lithium batteries

[Daox]

Anyone read about these yet? I just read an article in Automotive Engineering about Prieto Battery, and I must say they look very interesting! I'm not sure about their claims about higher energy density, but I can see huge advantages in their power density.

The how it works is somewhat simple to understand. A conventional battery has a flat plate anode / electrode / cathode sandwich. This battery is made of a copper nanowire or foam, so TONS more surface area than a flat plate. They electroplate the anode to the copper. The electrolyte is deposited by electropolymerization. Then, the whole thing gets dunked in a cathode slurry. The result is a 'dry cell' lithium battery with vastly more surface area.

I have yet to check it out throughly, but the dry electrolyte could also possibly hold up to higher temperatures (what is causing Leaf battery issues) possibly making heat a non-issue?

The battery is still in development of course, but they claim low manufacturing costs...




Energy density estimates.




Power density estimates. As you can see, they're claiming 2.5X higher power density than A123 cells, and A123 cells are already very impressive cells.

[Cobb]

Arent all batteries solid state? I know a few use flywheels for stationary use, but most are chemical vs mechanical in nature?

I use to be an avid reader of popular mechances/science and got tired of all the future far fetched ideas that never saw the light of day.

I think in all honestly lifepo4 batteries arent as light or good as lead acid is. I notice my enginer lifepo4 kit has a reduced capacity with 100 degree heat, below 32 degree temp with the cells in my passenger compartment and while the car is being heated and cool. I dont think lead acid had a reduction of almost half capacity in extreme temps, not that below 32 or above 100 is really that extreme for industrial equipment.

When I use to work for a company that sold hydrolic equipment, we could only guarantee it would work to -40 degrees, -60 and the pipes and hoses would burst.

[Daox]

Solid state is just what the article called it. There is simply no liquid electrolyte which is not very common.

If you think lifepo4 batteries aren't any better than lead acid you've obviously never owned a lead acid EV. Those guys take a solid 50% hit to range in winter. Not to mention a fraction of the cycle life.

[oil pan 4]

Is it cost scale able to the electric car level?

I can see people paying $200 for a super iphone battery or a dewalt power drill battery that will last all day. But I dont think people will want to spend tens of thousands on a vehicle battery.

This sounds like the "super capacitor", charges up in minutes and holds several times the power of current lithium batteries.

I like my LiFePO4 starting batteries, about 8lb of lithium replaces about 100 pounds of lead.
Look forward to Li-poly starting batteries at some point.

[Daox]

I'm still not sure how they're claiming increased energy density. From what I know, the energy is directly proportional to the amount of lithium in a battery. In a lead-acid battery its directly proportional to the amount of lead you have. So, unless they're able to make everything else that much lighter (and IMO it doesn't seem that way), the energy density is going to be pretty close to the same. But, they're claiming almost DOUBLE the energy density. Obviously I must be missing something here.

I think the real advantage here comes from power density, which would have absolutely no benefit to small electronics.

[Ryland]

One of the increases in outputs that I've heard of is by creating more surface area on the plates of the battery and this seems to be what they have done with the metal foam, but when I got prices of metal foam a few years back it was very expensive and lithium batteries tend to have each pouch be about the thickness of a sheet of paper, so I'm not sure how they are going to make the foam and keep it thin, but it's a nice idea.

As for lithium being no better then lead acid... yeah right! my car sees a reduction in range and speed starting at 50F and at 10F I have less then half of my batteries capacity.
The lithium batteries I just bought weigh 28 pounds for a ~12v 100amp hour pack/set of 4 cells, that pack would replace two golf cart batteries that weigh 67 pounds each or 134 pounds for a 12v pair they are rated at 220amp hours at a 20 hour discharge rate, but those batteries are only rated at 185amp hours at a 5 hour rate and around 140 amp hours over the course of two hours and often in an EV you have about an hours worth of driving at best on a set of lead acid batteries, so they don't give a one hour rating but most people figure it to be about 100amp hours on a 220amp hour battery and that capacity is to 100% discharged, at that point you have killed your battery, discharge it to 80% if you plan to replace them every 3 years, discharge them to 50% if you plan to replace them every 5-6 years, so while draining it only to 80% you have about 80 to 100 amp hours of capacity at best from a 134 pound pair of lead acid batteries that can be replaced with a 28 pound set of lithium batteries... so what was being said about their not being a weight savings?

[undata]

The most obvious question, is all the metal in a battery actually interacting at any time? Secondly, with nanotechnology, you move into the quantum realm of physics where the rules are different.

I checked the Prieto site and they say COULD be important to Electric cars. I quickly checked some other web sources, and this 3d lithium technology is associated with microelectronics. I'm with Cobb on this technology. It's like carbon nano-tubes and elevators to the moon at this stage.

[NeilBlanchard]

The DBM Energy Kolibri battery is also a lithium metal solid state battery, if I am not mistaken.