Fuel Efficient Vehicle with 3rd Row
 

Growing family means we are getting too big for our rides. I have been looking around for smaller vehicles with a third row and wanted to see what everyone has had success with. Would love to stay on the smaller size, no full size SUVs, and the more efficient the better. I've been looking into the following. I don't care if they are used, I'll be buying used anyway. Hoping to stay around 20k, but lower is better.

Mazda5
Kia Minivans
Ford Transit Connect Wagon
Honda Minivans
Toyota Minivans

Back seats don't need to be able to hold adults, kids only is fine.

Isn't the Transit Connect a "mid sized" van? What makes it better than USA minivans like the Dodge Caravan or Ford Windstar?

If there were only a way to get the three row seat Prius v here in the USA...

What about a first gen Honda Odyssey three row station wagon?

I like the Toyota Previa, especially the supercharged models that for some reason got better fuel mileage than the non-supercharged ones, although I wish they would have paired those with a manual transmission from the factory.

I like the MAZDA5 as well.

From my perspective you have two options: minivan or full size SUV. Since milage is of concern, minivan it is. We have a 2012 town and country, it's the first non-hybrid we've owned in 3 years and it is definitely strange to feel a vehicle shifting.

Mileage pretty much sucks though, the yukon hybrid does better. However, the savings on purchase price will buy a lot of gas.

Maybe look for a used Chrysler Pacifica hybrid, up to 30MPG and seats 7:)

I don't know that it is better - just different. The Transit is more of a "Euro" van - taller but narrower than a typical US minivan.

It does get better fuel economy:
2015 Transit Connect LWB - 23 mpg combined
2015 Grand Caravan - 20 mpg combined
2015 Sienna - 21 mpg combined
2015 Odyssey - 22 mpg combined


It is also a good bit cheaper. A new 2022 Transit Connect Wagon starts at $28,000. The rest are all in the mid- $30's for the base model

You should consider lowest in height and weight and longest models.

I have Grand Espace which is all of those mentioned above. Modern version could be caddy maxi family.

I noticed you have all minivans is your list but another option might be the Toyota Highlander Hybrid. It got a 3rd row for the 3rd generation (2014 - 2019). It is rated at 28 mpg combined and if you drive a lot of city miles the fuel savings could be significant compared to a conventional gas minivan. You should see a 30 - 40% improvement in city mpg and you will also never need to change the brakes.

This is not small but you could get a diesel Ford Excursion for around 10k. It seats 9 and you can get 20+ mpg out of it.

Yeah I've looked at these but they are expensive. Hopefully some more used ones will show up on the market soon.

You mean the full-size Transit or the Connect? The Connect has roughly the same footprint of previous generations of the traditional American minivan, yet it's slightly taller.

The connect. They have a wagon version that has a 3rd row. Seems like a great little car. Pretty affordable even new starting at 27k.

I really do need to compare the footprint because if it’s the same as a normal Honda or Toyota minivan then I would lean going larger.

The only one I have seen in my hometown is of that version, and it was used by the local U.S. Consulate.


Its footprint is smaller than current generations of minivans, either from the American or Japanese automakers, but it's comparable to some minivans from the '90s which were still quite mini :D

Transit Connect LWB

https://www.ford.com/is/image/conten..._16x9&wid=1440

https://www.ford.com/is/image/conten..._21x9&wid=1440

https://inv.assets.sincrod.com/Chrom...03_1280_Z2.jpg

I guess in my mind the Transit Connect is the modern Chevy Astro and Ford Aerostar. Maybe that's a far fetched comparison. It always seemed the Astro and Aerostar were closer to minivans in size but got full sized van fuel mileage.

I kept joking that a used limo would make the most sense as a family hauler, but I'm joking less and less these days. Would be sweet to find a stretch Prius with privacy glass so the noise can be confined in back.

Pacifica plug-in is on my radar since in Oregon it qualifies for up to $10k in subsidies. I went on a road trip with friends and thought it was nice.

CyberTruck looks interesting as a 6-seater, but I've never spent more than $16k on a vehicle before. Hard to justify spending 3x that amount on a vehicle.

Probably most realistic for me when the time comes is a used Tesla Model S.

https://www.teslarati.com/wp-content...5-1280x720.jpg

Maybe the Model X will come down in price someday.

http://www.teslarati.com/wp-content/...figuration.jpg

Ditto on the Model S design.

I'm not sure I'd want another electric car though any time soon.

I don't know your purchase window but used car prices are crazy right now. The Transit Connect is due for a redesign next year. It is moving to the C2 platform and production is moving from Spain to Mexico. (It will share a platform and assembly plant with the Bronco Sport and Maverick)

When the 3rd gen launches that might drop the price on the 2nd gen vans (2014 - 2022) The Transit Connect got a refresh and new 2.0L engine paired to an 8-speed auto for 2019. That bumped the combined fuel economy from 22 to 26 mpg with a big boost to city mileage (19 -> 24 mpg)

Not as overbuilt as the Astro and Aerostar may seem at a first glance.

No rush. We only have two kiddos now, I just like planning ahead. Knowing how much I need to save. I like buying with cash. If one of our cars decides to die then I like to know what my options are. Would rather just buy a larger car knowing I’ll need to space in a year or two. I keep cars a long time.

I'm a cash buyer too - I start saving for the next car the month after I buy a car.

Life is quite unpredictable anyway. On a sidenote, nowadays I'd be mroe willing to buy some utility vehicle with a body-on-frame layout which is supposed to be easier to implement some upgrades. Might seem crazy, but then I remember a short-wheelbase J40 Land Cruiser has a smaller footprint than some modern subcompacts :D

I just learned that there is a 7 seat version of the Model Y. A used one of those is probably most realistic for me one day. Prices need to come way down.

https://media.autoweek.nl/m/d2ty2hhbuqbw.jpg

Nice they can all fold flat.

https://i.redd.it/b6ynq3vdx0a61.jpg

What bothers me about the Model Y is that has more interior room than the Model 3 yet less weight capacity at just over 800lbs. So, as long as your passengers are around 100lbs each and you don't carry anything else with you, you're ok. Or maybe it can haul way more than it's rated for. Who knows.

I hope they don't weigh more than 100lbs each, those seats must be effing tiny!

Just because you can get that many seats in a vehicle doesn't mean you should.

Ya, they better be pretty small.

My brother and I are around 220lbs each. By the time you put us two in the front the other 5 passengers will need to weigh about 400lbs total. And that's without luggage. Add 100 lbs of luggage and each of the 5 passengers in back must weigh an average of 60lbs.

To put things into perspective, the Model Y has way more cargo space and up to two more places for passengers than my Avalon. And a lot of those place are actually more roomier per passenger except the rear two. But at the same time the Model Y has a weight carrrying capacity of a 1972 Super Beetle.

My question is Y?

Y? Tires bearings and braking capacity. Wieght has kinetic energy that has to be altered to drive about.

But why market a $50,000 vehicle that has more space than a station wagon yet can't carry more weight than a 4-seat compact car?

The Model 3 has more weight carrying capacity yet less cargo space and no 3rd row option.

Because it's some sort of a self-indulgence "sustainable" billboard more than anything else?

Because it is slightly larger and heavier CUV built on the basic underpinning of a Model 3 sedan and most CUV owners don't care about cargo ratings?

Yep, most people are oblivious to ratings. If they do overload and it causes a crash AND they're found at fault for that.... the ratings published by the mfgr reduce/eliminate liability.

Customer doesn't know/doesn't care and the mfgr benefits.

So one thing that threw me off with the Tesla Model Y is I can't find (quickly enough) how much space there is in the cargo area. I keep getting 68 sqft with the rear seats down, which isn't helpful comparing to cars that measure the cargo space with the seats up.

Anyhow, capacity comparison:

2007 Honda Fit 850lbs 21.3sqft
2014 Mazda MAZDA2 952 to 957lbs 13.3sqft
2020 Toyota Yaris 915 to 964lbs 15.6sqft
2019 Golf Sportwagen 1,152 to 1,217lbs 30.4sqft
2017 Toyota Prius v 981lbs 34.3sqft (67 with seats down)


2021 Tesla Model 3 822 to 893lbs 15sqft
2021 Tesla Model Y EDIT 1,157lbs 35sqft? (68 with seats down)

So the Model Y is similar in interior space to a Prius v, which also got a third row in some markets. But even though the Prius v can't haul a lot of weight, the Model Y holds 100lbs less.

Don't understand all this fear about going over the "limit" on things. Ratings are super conservative to account for people that are terrible at estimating weight, have tires inflated to a quarter of what they should be, are horrible at driving, exceed the speed limits...

You know, if you're loaded to exactly the weight rating you're 110% safe, but if you go 1 pound over you're totally screwed.

I guess I better ask the state what I should eat for dinner because I'm incompetent to use my own judgement.

I'm not done here. I once transported something like 8 people in my Subaru Legacy, plus me driving. Their durango had burned and they needed a ride. I even came around a corner where a deer was standing in the middle of the road and I yelled to everyone to hang on as I stopped the car as quickly and safely as possible, sparing the deer and the passengers.

Y'all are going to die of heart disease or cancer like everyone else. Nobody on this forum is dying from exceeding the weight rating of their car by 37 pounds. Refer to my signature. It never needs to be revised.

Maybe your experiences in life have been different than mine. I've had to deal with things like broken axles and failed brakes going down steep mountain passes and with weigh stations and keeping my load within limits.

You can't go wrong if you respect the manufacturer's limits. Once you step outside of those limits does it become anyone's and everyone's opinion as to what the "actual limit" really is.

I also know of people who swear by two or three year oil changes or using oil that's several grades thicker than what the manufacturer says. It still doesn't convinced me though.

It's also one thing for me to on-purposely overload my car
It's another for the manufacturer to seemingly expect you to.

My question would be to Tesla: If I put 7 passengers in the vehicle with 20lbs luggage each and go over their 106lbs per each and every of all 7 passengers average, is that ok? If not, then what? Do they expect my family to be anorexic or something?

If I have 4 average sized adults and want to put kids in the other three seats, so they need to be 54lbs or less each? What if I want to carry something else along that's 50lbs or so? That's why I'd pay $50,000 for the thing?

Ratings have nothing to do with capability, it's about defining a limit for legal reasons. The only point I was making is that .oat customers don't care about ratings and the manufacturer likes it that way.

You won't pony up the 50 large for a Tesla, you should let that go.

However that point is somewhat valid. On my Pacer, I had a legal 1000 lbs payload, but I know for a fact the previous owners in Alaska went way over limits hauling things. It was airworthy when I got it, airworthy when I sold it and flew decent.

Agreed.

Many people get away with going over limits all the time usually without any problems.

It sure wasn't fun that one time we were stuck in the middle of Missouri with a broken axle on the ol' pickup though with all our belongings in it.

But still, I think we all agree on what people do with their vehicles and what can be done.

What I was referring to is why do they make such a big vehicle with such a low payload rating. It just seems like selling a hammer that says on the box that it isn't meant to be used as a hammer. Regardless if people can or are going to use it as a hammer, why sell it like that?

The hypocrisy from people who are alarmist on their favorite "danger" topic is fun to observe.

How many people exceed speed limits? Heck, those are maximums anyhow, and it's up to the driver to assess the conditions, capabilities of the vehicle, and skill. I drove up a mountain pass that was covered in a sheet of ice. It wasn't possible to drive at the speed limit with my vehicle configuration and conditions and keep the car on the road. There wasn't a manual I could reference that told me exactly what the safe limits were.

100% of people break some traffic law on 100% of trips. Where are the online safety philosophers on subjects like coming to a complete stop, signalling 100 ft before a turn or lane change, walking behind the vehicle before reversing, etc, etc.

They don't. The payload given in the manual is 954 lbs. The tow rating is 3,500 lbs.

To me it's not so much of a danger topic as it is about the ironny. Would you by a motorcycle that's marketed as having the advantage for having two seats and a large cargo compartment but has a payload limit of 225lbs? And if you wouldn't, what's the difference bettween a motor cycle with 113lbs per passenger average and a car with 113lbs per passenger average in it's rating?

It's nice the Model Y actually has a better payload rating than what Google turns up. I also found this picture of a sticker that says 1,157lbs, claimed to be on a Model Y. So maybe it's not as bad as I was making it seem like.

I don't excede speed limits, at least not on purpose. I know, I'm the weird one. Going just 10 miles an hour faster than the limit can double your stopping distance. Personally I'm through with hitting deer and dogs and getting tickets. I have friends that that's their life because they can't leave home 5 minutes earlier than they do. But not me. I'd rather go the speed limit and pay more attention to what I'm doing.

The rule of thumb, at least taught to us in CDL school, is to drive at least 2/3 the speed limit anytime there's snowpack. This is what I do even in my own car. While usually not a problem it town, once on the highway people have the tendancy to keep increasing their speed until they're at or over the speed limit, even if it's snow packed or icy. Until you get to that first sharp corner where all the cars have gone off the road. Just following the 2/3 speed rule will almost certainly prevent that from happening.

That 68 cu ft number includes the frunk and the area below the cargo floor in the rear.

Lots of Model Y dimensions here:
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...r-measurements

Guidelines are important for the inexperienced or the unfamiliar. Unfortunately the way we become experienced is to survive being inexperienced. Finding the operating limits in a safe environment can go a long way to understanding the dynamics of a system though. For instance, I'll periodically check road conditions as I drive when they are slippery. I'll check my braking power and ability to swerve.

I generally travel 5 MPH over the speed limit and won't exceed 7 unless I'm on a motorcycle on a country road. I don't get speeding tickets, never hit a deer or dog, and don't get in wrecks. I don't even slow down when I know a speed trap is coming because you won't get pulled over for doing 5 over if that's the only infraction.

Rule followers are absolutely crucial to an orderly and well-functioning society. I never curse a person doing the speed limit when I'd rather be traveling faster. I also don't curse the person passing me. I do curse the person doing 40 in a 55 on a perfect day. If they are too scared to drive they shoulda stayed home or asked someone else to drive for them.