Structural batteries in electric vehicles

[Xist]

The cyber truck is supposed to have batteries built into the frame and supplying a large part of the strength. This video covers a type of battery created in sheets that is supposed to be almost as strong as aluminum, but lighter.

That seems like an odd comparison. How does the strength-per-weight compare?
https://youtu.be/7rJf_n3bc0I

[freebeard]

So why The Lounge instead of Central or Fossil Free Fuel?


i.pinimg.com/236x/1c/f7/2c/1cf72c0d7d554008da7806a9903eba4b--i-dont-always-always-and-forever.jpg

The video covers two type of batteries. The obvious question is 'what about the crush zone?' Less obvious is 'How do you recycle something that's not a standard cell?'

[Isaac Zachary]

The first question is how do you mass produce the break through batteries cheaply enough for them to catch on.

The second question is how will this affect repairs (i.e. right to repair). I see the "skate board" battery of the Tesla truck seeming to be bolted to the rest of the truck. But what if Tesla decides to make it a unibody, welded and glued to the rest of the truck, and then your battery dies? Not to mention that single cells or modules won't be repairable on their own.

Also, what about recycleability of even the glued togther batteries.

(P.S. I cringe every time I hear the frase "battery pack" referring to EV batteries and not a small package of single cell "batteries" from a store.)

[Xist]

The top comments were about there being new cars that cost less than Tesla battery replacements, now it will be like when your iPhone battery wears out, you junk it!

[redpoint5]

Take your meds! JK.

The Chevy Bolt is going through round 3 (or is it 4) of battery woes. Stuffing thousands of cells that must be closely matched in performance creates a headache down the road.

Batteries have many technical challenges to overcome, and I suspect people's enthusiasm outpaces that reality.

[oil pan 4]

Hmm sounds like they are intentionally designing the battery to be nearly impossible to repurpose and recycle and absolutely impossible to replace or service the battery.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Hmm sounds like they are intentionally designing the battery to be nearly impossible to repurpose and recycle and absolutely impossible to replace or service the battery.

You're gonna want to extend that warranty. Something I rarely recommend.

[Isaac Zachary]

Warranties are nice, to a degree. But there's always a time at which they expire. Then what?

The Nissan Leaf is a prime example of this problem. Once the warranty period is over and the battery degrades down to 50% (or less!) The car is now pretty much worthless. Few people want such a car, and fewer still can use such a car as their only car (or cars).

Now if that happened 30 years from now, great! But when it happens some 5-10 years later, like right after the warranty expires, that's not great!

[Piotrsko]

There's a bunch of battery rebuilders on the web, imho, pretty decent cheap. Somebody pops up to offer odd services all the time

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

There's a bunch of battery rebuilders on the web, imho, pretty decent cheap. Somebody pops up to offer odd services all the time

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

There's a bunch of battery rebuilders on the web, imho, pretty decent cheap. Somebody pops up to offer odd services all the time

True, which gives some hope for cars like the Nissan Leaf. On the other hand, if hybrid batteries (NiMH) are anything to go by there's a good chance that even those will flop. The OEM battery for a Prius, for an example, lasts some 12 to 15 years or better. But the replacement is $2,000 or better. An aftermarket or refurbished battery can go for $600. But from the experiences I've read, don't expect to get more than a year or two out of one of those batteries. There have only been a few that have gotten lucky and get 3 or 4 years or of one, but that's about as good as it gets.

Now compare that to a full sized EV battery. The 24kWh OEM Nissan Leaf battery costs some $8,000 and has only gone up in price even before COVID-19. We have yet to see if cheaper-per-kWh aftermarket solutions will actually last.

Then add to that the structural aspect we're talking about. There have been a few Tesla owners who have had a single battery module go out and Tesla now won't replace just the module. Thankfully some have figured out how to do it and have saved themselves the cost of a whole new battery. There are similar stories with Prii and Leafs. But with a structurally battery the whole thing is one module! Now what?! Replacing just the bad cells will be very prohibitive.

My thought is that they need to get battery technology to where it lasts for several decades before trying to make them a disposable integrated part of the vehicle. How long does the average car last including all owners? I see lots of 30 year old cars still perfectly fine to drive. Making an EV that breaks after some 10 years and costs more to repair than a new car is a bad idea IMO. The cost of used cars would soar and people would be forced to buy new if they want to drive at all.

Then again, maybe having less people driving would be a good thing.