EcoModder.com

EcoModder.com (https://ecomodder.com/forum/)
-   The Unicorn Corral (https://ecomodder.com/forum/unicorn-corral.html)
-   -   GEET Reactor (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/geet-reactor-16817.html)

some_other_dave 04-13-2011 01:45 PM

GEET Reactor
 
Has this one been explored here yet? I'm tentatively putting it in the Unicorn Corral, because it certainly looks too good to be true.

Directory:GEET Reactor by Paul Pantone - PESWiki


A quote from the inventor, Paul Pantone:
Quote:

Here is how Paul described the technology in brief:

"GEET is a fuel-delivery system that modifies liquid fuels to a vapor stage, then it takes it to a plasma stage, which is a higher energy form, feeding new fuel with fresh air into the engine, burning clean and cool. I shouldn't say 'burning' because it implodes; it doesn't explode; and therefore it takes heat out of the engine to run, making the engine run cold."
Wow, that not only pegs the BS-O-meter; it blows the top clean off it! It may work, or it may not, but the inventor it seems does not have a clue about why or how.

So, should we start ridiculing it, or is a serious discussion possible?

-soD

JRMichler 04-13-2011 09:29 PM

The fact that he got a patent is not proof that it works. The patent office only looks to find if it was previously patented or is public knowlege. If not, they grant the patent. His patent expired August 21, 2002 because the maintenance fees were not paid. Since the patent is expired, anybody can legally copy it without paying him a penny.

And he wants $20,000 to take the class....

Joenavy85 04-15-2011 09:18 AM

Quote:

which is a higher energy form
so where does that extra energy come from??

Joenavy85 04-15-2011 09:21 AM

ridicule time, i'm guessing it gets it from his ARC reactor that Iron Man built.

Joenavy85 04-15-2011 10:10 AM

or maybe from his flux capacitor. and hey, if the engine runs cold then we could use the cold coolant as AC so we can do an AC delete

Joenavy85 04-15-2011 10:18 AM

OK, a serious response from me now. if he converts it to a higher energy form and then "burns" it cool causing it to "remove" heat from the engine, it seems like a total waste because he keeps increasing the energy in the fuel but never uses it, so inreality your putting energy in and spitting it out the back of your car. what sense does that make?

Joenavy85 04-15-2011 10:22 AM

"and therefore it takes heat out of the engine to run, making the engine run cold"

so where does this heat in the engine come from if it runs cold???

jamesqf 04-15-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joenavy85 (Post 231784)
...it seems like a total waste because he keeps increasing the energy in the fuel but never uses it, so inreality your putting energy in and spitting it out the back of your car.

Just think about this logically, though. You install a second engine to use up the energy produced by the first, making the car twice as efficient :-)

Also I wonder... if the fuel implodes rather than explodes in the cylinder, does that mean it sucks the pistons up and the engine runs backwards? Which would mean you're sucking in air through the exhaust, sending it backwards through the catalytic converter (to have HCs and NOx added, I suppose), then blowing it out through the air filter.

UFO 04-15-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some_other_dave (Post 231376)
Has this one been explored here yet? I'm tentatively putting it in the Unicorn Corral, because it certainly looks too good to be true.

Good call.

thomason2wheels 10-01-2012 07:49 AM

Wow....omg...

Arragonis 10-01-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
you all sound like a bunch of ignorant fart sniffers(typical prius drivers),

Welcome - and well done on the superb first post, sure to make lots of friends. I do make my own gas and I have been known to sniff it, purely on medical grounds though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
the geet reactor may not be 100% reliable but its still in early developmental stages, how reliable do you think the first prototypes of combustion engines where, and look at where they are now!

Yeah, er, they kind of did that in first 2-3 years in the 1800s, we have had 200 years of refinement though with billions spent on it - sometimes in the wrong direction but we seem to be on track now - mostly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
The fact of the matter is that they work, no two ways about it and if you think its fake, with the amount of evidence out there you must be pretty dumb.

Agreed I am dumb, but all the evidence seems to be scam websites circa 1998.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
The only reason its been in development stages for so long is because of people like you who put it in the "unicorn" corned straight away, and i dont think mr paul is making enough money to keep his patents up to date considering the amount of support he doesn't get. Im an sola engineer and i build racing cars in my spare time so i'm no fool,

Pictures and web sites or you lie and this is pish. Any links also have to include proof as to your qualifications to comment on this - specifically. I'm expecting prototypes, secret plans etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
I'm currently in the process of building a reliable geet motor

Good luck, as above - pics or this is pish in the wind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
to incorporate into my sola business

I assume "sola" = "solar" - it is really only one letter, what is this nonsense - txtspk ? For gods sake man, buck up. Pay attention. All the symbols and letters are right there in front of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by openyoureyes (Post 331230)
, and trust me if there was any chance i would **** with my cash cow i wouldn't! so how about you do some proper research before you flame something for the world to see.

Look it is really simple - on the left is the shift key, hold it down and you get CAPITALS - how hard is that ?

GEET

Oh where to start, or even why bother.

If I was an engineer in Thermonuclear Dynamics I would learn to spell it (and maybe that is wrong, but you get the idea) so you are not filling me with the "this is the next really big thing" mood.

I'm kind of getting the image of someone sat in a small room dreaming of the next really big secret energy source, and then maybe google searching porn.

Prove me wrong. :cool:

EDIT - or never post again.

thomason2wheels 10-01-2012 05:02 PM

Well said my good man. I am glad to see someone take the time and energy to put that fool to rest. He seriously needs to learn the true meaning of "theres no such thing as a free lunch" as it relates to the basic laws of physics. :D

Arragonis 10-01-2012 05:04 PM

He can reply if he wants to.

JRMichler 10-01-2012 08:46 PM

Maybe we could introduce him to Doug Pelmear....

oil pan 4 10-01-2012 08:52 PM

Sola or solar engineer sounds like a made up BS title to me.
Like a shoe or paper clip engineer, HAHAHA!

I only know of chemical, civil, electrical, mechanical and master engineers.

rmay635703 10-02-2012 01:29 PM

This thing can physically work on small gas engines, all it is, is the old idea of using the CAT ahead of the fuel injection cycle.

By doing this you loose all control over throttle.

So nothing mystical here, the thing physically functions, only unicorn is the claims made on its behalf.

Arragonis 10-02-2012 01:55 PM

@rmay, but is it actually useful ?

rmay635703 10-02-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 331550)
@rmay, but is it actually useful ?

As-is? Only if you need one speed (I think that speaks for itself).

Anyway...

The claims are the unicorn, is a carburator usefull, is a hit and miss engine usefull?

I would estimate that since a legitimate company wanted to use a catalytic carburator at some point prior to efi that this device would likely also perform in much the same way if it was refined to have some sort of throttling ability.

That said is reinventing the wheel (carburator) going to gain us much over EFI?

Is making the heavies more burnable in the combustion chamber as opposed to the cat downstream usefull?

I would estimate that as we expand out the level of required efficiency old things of this nature (but more refined) may become usefull again but we are picking some pretty high fruit going after that last 3%

Afterall how would your CAT stay lit if there were no energy there?

This is what I file under, the idea has merit but is being overhyped by a scammer with a poor design.

Cheers
Ryan

acparker 10-03-2012 10:22 PM

I visited Mr. Pantone at his home about 15 years ago. It was only five miles away. I took my infant twins. Maybe not the best plan, as he was sporting a quite convincing Mansonesque look (Charles, not Marilyn) at the time that made me a bit uncomfortable. His short presentation was nonsensical, for the most part, using a lot of techno-evangelist jargon. I got more relevant technical information from his assistant who was showing me their engines. None of them worked well, some not at all.

IMHO, the bubbler only serves to distill the more volatile portion of the mix, with some water vapor. The coffee and soda thing is just hype. Whatever the hot exhaust gases don't vaporise is left behind in a viscous ooze that likely needs to be treated as hazardous waste. Oh yeah, The bubbler also serves as a great Molotov cocktail, if you aren't careful (probably even if you are careful).

I think that the GEET reactor works as a plasma generator that utilizes exhaust gases to produce high voltage static electricity that forms a plasma that reforms the vapor that passes through it into more basic elements like hydrogen, carbon and oxygen. This part of GEET is not strictly unicorn science. The DoD has researched plasma generators (made from spark plugs and metal tubing) for treatment of diesel fuel to meet EPA emissions standards. (The study also mentions that water vapor can be reformed into hydrogen and oxygen, with the addition of a catalyst.)

The magic magnetism in the Geet reactor may simply be an indicator that plasma has been generated.

Well, enough of this. I must get back to my Pogue carburetor, Meyer Cells and Farnsworth Fusor.

Arragonis 10-04-2012 01:50 PM

Oh great, OpenYourEyes has been removed and now I look like I'm talking to the moon :D

Which is of course where the invention came from.

euromodder 10-04-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acparker (Post 331926)
The DoD has researched plasma generators (made from spark plugs and metal tubing) for treatment of diesel fuel to meet EPA emissions standards. (The study also mentions that water vapor can be reformed into hydrogen and oxygen, with the addition of a catalyst.)

And by adding energy first to create the plasma or reform the water ...

Wether you'll get that energy back in improved efficiency, is quite another thing.

acparker 10-04-2012 03:44 PM

The DoD study makes no claims of overunity (always a good sign, especially in a government study). The idea was to reform a portion of the fuel, then either inject the resulting gases into the combustion mix, or into a post-combustion reactor, to improve emissions, particularly PM10. The losses to the system for generating the plasma were considered a fair exchange for the intended results. They mentioned that there was room for improving the efficiency of the plasma generator.

If the GEET reactor can supply the plasma necessary to reform all or part of the fuel to allow it to burn more efficiently in an internal combustion engine by utilizing the static electricity produced from the movement of hot exhaust gases in a confined space, it could conceivably improve the efficiency of the system.

Doesn't that sound more acceptable than talking about magic magnetics converting coffee and soda into fuel? Ahh, but it isn't as mesmerizing and I guess that is the point for Pantone.

rmay635703 10-04-2012 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acparker (Post 332065)
Doesn't that sound more acceptable than talking about magic magnetics converting coffee and soda into fuel? Ahh, but it isn't as mesmerizing and I guess that is the point for Pantone.

Its amazing how one ideot can make a potentially workable device from rockwell that could even have small benefits in specific applications, such that both himself and the design are discredited. When in reality only the guy with the claim should be thoroughly discredited.

The purpose I've seen stated elsewhere for the various "GEET" experiments was to try to get a system where the exhaust powers a CAT like device that reforms the entire intake charge into lighter more burnable compounds. Whether we have enough heat and whether it works is another thing, as ACP states it probably doesn't work out so well in reality, since you do have to start the engine and stop it.

So effectively a CAT ahead of the motor, that idea may in some form be workable (rockwell had one already) If someone would enter reality and test a well MADE device (not a geet) in a controlled situation. It may have benefits in certain situations.

The main benefit that comes off the top of my head is the ability to burn fuels other than gasoline in a gasoline motor (if of coarse you can figure out how to start the darn thing), sort of like having your own onboard refinery.

But, sadly because some scammer latched onto it, no such luck.

Ah well.

oil pan 4 10-05-2012 03:09 AM

I find the design where the liquid fuel gets reformed into water and carbon dioxide inside the comustion chamber works quite well.

Mustang Dave 10-05-2012 09:28 AM

:thumbup:

rmay635703 10-05-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oil pan 4 (Post 332158)
I find the design where the liquid fuel gets reformed into water and carbon dioxide inside the comustion chamber works quite well.

Especially on a diesel cycle, too bad most cars aren't multifuel capable diesels.

orion411 10-07-2012 02:24 AM

GEET works
 
2005 Subaru Legacy running two fuel injectors getting 68MPG.
89 SR5 Toyota pick up running on a lawn mower carb.
Seems pretty useful to me.

Arragonis 10-07-2012 05:47 AM

Well thats it, there you have it.

Case closed.

Obviously works.

I for one am quite happy to believe someone who has just signed up, made only one post making an unsunstantiated claim.

How can we doubt it...

Mr Orion - how is your Unicorn ?

orion411 10-07-2012 06:44 AM

GEET works
 
Only found this forum thanks to Google alerts on GEET.

Great idea on the unicorn. GEET powered Unicorn art car for Burning Man. Wow I'd get laid by a different playa bunny every morning, afternoon, evening and night.

Enjoy your ignorance.

Arragonis 10-07-2012 09:51 AM

Well, I'm sold. Sign me up!

orion411 10-07-2012 04:53 PM

GEET works
 
I have nothing to sign you up for. You will have to sign yourself up and do the work yourself. I recommend you work on small engines first. I did 32cc, 6HP, 3.5HP, 6.5HP and 14.5HP engines before working on a vehicle. The 32cc and 6HP motors got destroyed. Don't do two-stroke unless it has an oil pump as the oil in the petrol get's converted to GEET gas and there's no more oil to lubricate the engine. Also you have to control the RPMs as the 6HP engine ran away and went so fast that it seized and the head cracked.

It's been four years of research and development for me. At first it was confusing and several times I called foul that is was bogus, but people who did it convinced me to keep trying. Now it is easy for me to make it work. You need to trick the computer of a newer car so it doesn't increase fuel when it sees lots of oxygen in the exhaust.

We ran a 14.5HP art car at Burning Man on petrol, whiskey, white gas and urine. It ran a lot better with the urine in the mix.

Good luck.

oil pan 4 10-07-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion411 (Post 332468)
89 SR5 Toyota pick up running on a lawn mower carb.

What kind of "lawn mower carb"?
I want to believe but you are not giving me much to work with.

I read about the Subaru running two fuel injectors getting 68MPG, seems like BS to me. Had all the standard BS red flags, mainly the "secret patents".

orion411 10-07-2012 05:28 PM

orion411
 
Secret patents? Patents aren't secret. You can look them up at the patent office.

What is not clear about lawn mower carb?

I'm leaving next month for another country. Going to help a business man there with conversion for diesel trucks. He has two electrical engineers who are developing a ECU modification. We have to keep the electronics closed/protected so people can't easily copy our work. This is not cheap research and we want to make money with a product. I've spent thousands and have not made a penny. The country I'm going to doesn't have copyright protection so we have to make something that can't easily be copied, but they have a real need.

You won't believe me until you have success doing the work. I didn't believe when I started.

ChazInMT 10-07-2012 07:33 PM

@ Orion - I wouldn't believe you until we filled your Subaru with gas and then chit chatted with you for a few hours as we drive 200 miles or so then refill your tank with only 3 gallons of Gas. Something tells me that would never happen, either you wouldn't allow the company, or 6+ gallons would be added.

Here in Ecomodder, we understand where the inefficiencies exist in the turn gasoline into miles traveled equation, and unless you've somehow doubled the chemical energy potential of gasoline, this has no chance of working as claimed. Basic laws of chemistry, thermodynamics, and physics can't be changed by a fancy fuel intake system. You'd be better off letting this drop here rather than try and convince a bunch of smart people that this works. You've just flown into a hornets nest of intelligent skeptics, don't think we're just going to take your word for anything. Be prepared to explain things well.

And for the love of God, DO NOT proclaim that we need to prove to you that it doesn't work, this will instantly make you a moron of the highest order and unworthy of having a conversation with.

JRMichler 10-07-2012 09:25 PM

If I drove his car, I'd want to put it on a scale before and after to rule out a hidden gas tank. Hidden gas tank is a famous NASCAR "creative rule interpretation".

oil pan 4 10-07-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion411 (Post 332568)
Secret patents? Patents aren't secret. You can look them up at the patent office.

I know, but when you read about some of these unicorns there is a "secret patent" and the inventer person wont give up a patent number or details hence the secret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion411 (Post 332568)
What is not clear about lawn mower carb?

Only everything.
There is more than one kind of lawn mower carb. They don't all use the same one.
Was it a carb for a 3 horsepower mower or a 20 horsepower twin cylinder engine? 2 or 4 cycle engine?
Which company manufactured the carb or what engine did it come off?
A rough guess at the year it was made would be handy.

The ultimate question is what does the primative lawn mower carb offer that an advanced 2 or 4 barrel carb does not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion411 (Post 332568)
You won't believe me until you have success doing the work. I didn't believe when I started.

This is what we do.
I am a diesel mechanic by trade and its also my hobby.
Give us something.
All the modifications I have done are covered in detail on different posts.
I'm not hiding anything.
If I used a lawn mower carb to fuel a vehicle that got exceptional MPGs I would have a wiki post with pictures and detailed decriptions of what I did along was air/fuel ratio measurements.

orion411 10-08-2012 01:24 AM

GEET works
 
If I think someone is worth my time then I'd be happy to let them do all the testing they would like. That's why I'm going out of the country for four months to third world to work with a government leader and an insurance tycoon. People in other countries seem to be a lot less stubborn about accepting new realities and bright futures. Too many Americans clinging on to centuries old knowledge. France has caught on. Two girls won a rally within their car class, because they got better mileage than everyone else with the same car. Thousands of other stories in France.

I'd share a lot of information here if there is reciprocation of knowledge. I'm bound by agreements not to share details about projects I've helped with. My own personal project right now is to convert my Ford F800 turbo diesel. I've done supplemental GEET using urine and got 15% more mileage out of my fuel. Mileage averaged 6-7MPG for over 2000 miles. Mileage averaged 7-8MPG from San Diego to Modesto. Plus it felt more responsive and cooler running.

To do full conversion I have to figure out how to disengage my injection pump. Otherwise I have to run fuel through it, which means feeding six fuel lines out of my injection pump into two 3-4' long hoses in order to feed a couple injectors feeding the reactor. On the other side of the reactor I need to have a big vacuum pump creating vacuum on the reactor and injecting the reformed gas into the intake manifold that is under 7-21PSI pressure from the turbo charger. According to the inventor I need to take out my turbo charger, but I'm intent on inventing some new application for turbo charged vehicles. To my understanding, nobody has modified a turbo charged vehicle with a GEET.

I'm selling my 2005 Subaru Legacy GT so I can buy a cheap Mazda with a rotary engine. No chance of a backfire blowing out your rings with one of those Wankel engines. I've learned enough lessons to understand that trying to mod the turbo charged Subaru is going to be very expensive for R&D and could potentially blow my rings if I don't spend $400/hr on a dyno having the engine tuned. I've got over $400K of debt so I'm not going to take that risk.

Love and light for a bright and clean future on planet Earth.

Arragonis 10-08-2012 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion411 (Post 332647)
If I think someone is worth my time then I'd be happy to let them do all the testing they would like. That's why I'm going out of the country for four months to third world to work with a government leader and an insurance tycoon...

Has the Nigerian Prince retired ? /sarc

If you can't demo it, maybe youtube or even photos or real tests then it stays in the unicorn meadow with good reason IMHO.

Bye, enjoy the travel.

orion411 10-08-2012 04:30 AM

I have no idea what your sarcasm about a Nigerian prince means. Was that for me?

This is the only personal video I have to share.
The Jenk Train and Element 11 on Vimeo
There's huge amount of media from others available online.

I have a photo of before and after smog tests from a San Diego smog shop. The motor is CARB certified 6.5HP Harbor Freight blue engine.

Other than this I'm not out to prove anything to the haters. I've got plenty of work ahead of me as it is.

Frank Lee 10-08-2012 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonion
I've got plenty of work ahead of me as it is.

No isht Sherlock! :rolleyes:


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:10 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com