Geo Metro Block Heater How-to
 

I picked up a Kat's 850watt block heater today. Part #13080 at my local Napa store. It retails for around $75 but I got a discount because I am good friends with some of them up there.

I had to buy 5/8" heater core hose, they had a 6ft. piece for $5.94 at Advance auto. More than enough for this project, enough to replace all the heater hoses. Might as well while you are doing this.

I also picked up a timer at Wal-mart that I am going to set for 1 1/2 hours before I leave for work in the mornings. I figured up this would cost me $1.27 for a month to use. Not to shabby for a nice warm car in the morning.

The packaging.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater004.jpg

The kit, notice the MD can by it the heater is fairly small.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater005.jpg

This is how you will want to orient your bracket.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater006.jpg

A good mounting location I found, just make sure it out of the path of the cv shaft. That would not be good. The heater also has to be lower than where you are connecting to allow gravity to do it's job.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater007.jpg

This is the hose I tied into.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater008.jpg

Done enjoy a nice warm car in the mornings. Also the added benefit of better fuel economy.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...kheater009.jpg

Make sure to "burp" the system of air, and when refilling system leave outlet of heater unhooked. Watch for coolant to fill the heater before connecting upper "outlet hose" marked by an arrow on the case of heater.

Looks much easier than a factory style install and more efficient than oil heaters.

Has anyone combined different style heaters on one car? Didn't you do something on this, Darin? I would think that an oil heater coupled with a coolant recirculatory heater would make the most difference, but still have diminishing returns... I would like to make such a system.

I thought about doing this but instead of oil, use one of the 200w magnetic on the transmission to warm the tranny oil up. I feel the engine oil will warm pretty quickly when the motor is warmed by the coolant heater. The heat from block is sure to transfer to oil pan I would think.

Danger will Robinson Danger!!!!
 

Years ago a coworker of mine installed a circulating coolant heater from a big truck in his car. The first cold day he tried it, he went out to his car, started it and turned on the defrost. His windshield broke due to thermal expansion. 850W seems excessive for a Metro engine; please be careful if you need to use the defrost.

Hi knowbodies - I've never seen more than about 130 F above ambient using my 800 watt heater (almost identical to yours, bbjsw10).

http://metrompg.com/posts/photos/gra...mup-800w-z.gif

from: Experiment: how long should a block heater be plugged in? - MetroMPG.com

That's still well below normal operating temperature.

I guess it's still possible to crack the windshield if it's super cold outside (like -35 C / -31F) ... oh look, you live in Moose Jaw! :)

I have an external element style 300w OEM block heater + this convection tank style 800w one. I rarely use them both at the same time, unless I'm in a "hurry" and don't want to wait for the 800w one. :)

Also, don't forget to leave your temp slider on "hot" inside the car when you plug in - you have to give the convection somewhere to go!

Looking forward to your impressions of the heater. I love mine.

You know the unusual sounds a really, really cold (like -10 and below, C) engine makes when it first starts up? I haven't heard that for a long time. :)

Since you have the equipment attached to your whip already, would you be willing to make another experiment and temperature every 15 minutes graph using the two heaters at the same time? I would really like to see how quickly it gets up to temp and how it affects your MPGs... :D

I really would like to do that kind of modification on my car...

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://metrompg.com/posts/photos/gra...up-1100w-z.gif

From: Experiment: how long should a block heater be plugged in? - MetroMPG.com

I haven't tried to measure impact on fuel economy because I didn't think I could control enough variables to get meaningful results.

Sweet, thanks a bunch Darin. I think that heating multiple fluids in a car would be better for overall fuel consumption. Oil, Tranny and Coolant. I am really thinking about doing this...

I think heating the transmisison oil would definitely be worthwhile.

I haven't done any scientific tests like yours but I know I was getting 34-37 in the morning to work. It is about 3.8 miles, same route, about the same traffic. The first morning I used it I hit 62.3 according to Guino. The same mileage I could get on the way home when it is warmer out.

A cold engine kills me driving to work, too short of a drive. But a short drive to work is nice just not for FE.

Thanks Darin, those graphs were the reason I went with the one I did. I read every single word on those tests you did and tank sounded like best choice.

I definatly need one of these for my tacoma, my fuel economy is in the crapper..

Well, i cleared 4" of snow off my car this morning. St. Thomas Ontario (south west). Not happy. Need to put on the winter tires and I was thinking about a block heater as i was putting on my gloves to deal with the freezing shift knob and wheel. I like that unit. Methinks I needs one.

Definitely worth getting, Matt. Do eeeet!

Any more observations, bbjsw10? That was a massive improvement, according to the Guino.

Yeah Matt, get one and everyone else who has a car that lives in the cold climates.

Observations, Hmmm. Firstly I love it, we have had frost about 10 times now and the windshield is half defrosted when I go outside. Just from ambient heat from core rising.

The mileage increase has been like that everyday when using this. I tested 1 morning without and dropped right back to the 35-37Mpg range, I shall run it everyday now. This was the easiest/cheapest mod for cold weather, IMHO. I am seriously thinking about adding one to my Wife's Civic Si, too. I have not had a cold start trip under 50Mpg since using this, and some runs were only 1.5 miles(which was just for a test I normally don't turn it on unless needed) So Yeah I Love It!! :thumbup: :turtle:

amazon

$32

Amazon.com: Kats 13080 850 Watt Alumininum Circulating Tank Heater: Automotive

hm... i clicked the link and it says "make sure it fits your vehicle" and it tells me that it does not fit my 2k2 mazda protege5... is that just silly (because it is not oem bolt-on), or does my car maybe have different sized hoses?

Good DIY! I didn't know those were manufactured; I thought there were only the block, glow-plug style heaters.

It said the same for mine! As you can see it fits, measure your heater core hoses if they are 5/8" it should work as long as you have enough room for the heater.

So if the thermostat on the car opens at 170-180F, how effective is this tank heater at warming the block?! Just a question..:D

Ken

Canhonkey,by tying into the heater hoses it bypasses the thermostat and only warms the block and not radiator.

Ah ic..In that case, I'm going to buy one.

Thanks

As long as there is room in the engine compartment to mount it, you should be able to make it work.
Instruction sheet from KATs
(Take special note of points 2 & 3. Also be aware that it's best if the tank heater is mounted lower than the upper most hose connection.)

You might need parts not included in the package (example: if your heater hoses aren't 5/8").

just curious why you didn't go for a freeze plug replacment heater?

Amazon also lists 1000W, 1500W, and 2000W heaters. Is there any reason to stick with the smaller ones? I figure some people might need a long extension cord and pulling 19 amps might be a bit much, but if the power is available at a nearby outlet that is wired good, then what would everyone estimate for the time to heat up a metro with a 2000W heater?

I have been meaning to convert from X10 controls in my house to Z-wave and that would give me the ability to put a remote switch in the house and the switched plug in my garage so I could turn on the heater remotely, like say 15-30 minutes before I plan on leaving. I don't really have a consistent enough schedule to use a timer so I would pretty much just have to work it manually. Plus if it heats up quickly that means even for unplanned trips I can just hit the switch right when I am first thinking about leaving so even with just 10 minutes it would still heat up pretty good.

Boy I wish I had an outlet near my car.

I too was under the impression that all engine block heaters used an actual element in or on the block, this setup is a great idea.

I just picked up the 500-watt version of this heater. I live in Minneapolis (it gets COLD here), and have to park my car outside, year-round, but have an outlet to plug into. I am sick and tired of going out to a frozen car when it's below zero outside. I bought this item from an outfit in Redding, Calif. and when the package arrived by UPS, it looked like this item could have been sitting on a shelf for 20 years or more. The illustrations on the box and the instruction sheet are really old-fashioned looking. Kinda weird. But anyway, the item is actually made in USA, which is cool.

My car is a 1990 Acura Integra (Honda Prelude). I can see that there is very little room in the engine bay to mount this thing. But I think I can see a spot that might work. I have studied the instruction sheet that came with the heater, and also the heater hoses in my engine bay. If I understand all of this correctly, my best bet is to tie this unit into the heater core INLET hose. That way, the Kat's heater will be heating/pumping warm coolant into the heater core, and from there it will be returning to the engine block, circulating around the cylinder jackets, and out to the heater core again. Does that sound right?

ChrisD: because the freeze plug types typically don't offer the wattage you can get with a tank style heater.

PeterB: sounds right.

Coyote: go for it! I thought I was pushing boundaries going with 800w on a 1L, but why not? Also you hit the nail on the head: the faster it works, the more likely you'll use it for "spontaneous" trips.

And now the fun part: I just realized mine must be installed wrong. I was sure my instructions told me to mount mine horizontally (outlet), but bbjsw10, and now Mullet, both installed theirs with the outlet pointing UP, which makes far more sense considering these are supposed to rely on convection for circulating the coolant. (I realize the PDF you linked to points up.)

I checked to see if I still had my documentation, but I don't.

So I'm going to have to have another look at mine. Supposed to be getting a warmer spell this week, so I may turn it 90 degrees and see what happens.

One thing that is not totally clear to me about these kat's heaters, not having installed mine yet:

Do they actually pump the coolant besides heating it? (Guess that would require a small mechanical impeller or piston-type pump). I can't see much trying to peer into the pump with a flashlight.

Current is circulated only by convection. There's no mechanical pump in these.

bbjsw10: hey, can you clarify something about your installation of that Kat's heater on your Geo? (Can't tell from the photos). Do you have the Kat's heater set up so that the heated coolant from the heater is first being directed into the heater core in the passenger compartment and from there travelling to the engine block (and back to the Kat's)? Or do you have it arranged so the heated coolant is first being directed into the engine block (and from there into the heater core in the passenger compartment)? I have to choose between these two configurations and can't decide which would be best.

I bought 6 feet of heater hose today and am finally ready to install my own Kat's heater on my ride ('90 Acura). I'm going to tap into one of the heater hoses. I had considered employing the engine block drain plug in my install, before I realised it's buried beneath the exhaust manifold and pretty much inaccessible. I also rejected the idea of tapping into the lower radiator hose.

Thanks for any info. :)

Peter B, I have it going through heater core first then to block. I am going to be changing this though once my "Tee" shows up at the parts store. I will be tapping into lower radiator hose then tapping into heater core hose directing toward block first. I feel right now I may be losing some of the potential of this heater out my core. I want my block to heat first.

So whats the difference between the aluminum tank heaters (Amazon.com: Kats 13150 1500 Watt Aluminum Circulating Tank Heater: Automotive)

and the red ones? (Amazon.com: Kats 12080 850 Watt External Tank Heater: Automotive)

just looks?

I think Im gonna buy that 1500 watt aluminum one though. Its only a few bucks more than a lower wattage one. I should be able to run it for less time, and its thermostatically controlled too I believe. Any reason why I shouldnt go for a 1500 watt unit?

Edit: unless I wanted to try rigging up my 750w inverter to a say, 500w heater so I could run out to the car on my last break at work (anywhere from 2-4 hours before Im out of work) to start it on a timer to run for the last half hour or so before I get out of work. But then who knows how long my battery would last. Its a new napa battery if that means anything.

I wouldn't do that. Your headlights can kill your battery and they only draw about 100 watts. Maybe if you had a deep cycle battery you could get away with it.

Actually I had a similar idea though. I was wondering if it would actually be feasible to run one of these while the car is running. On bitter cold days my car never actually reaches normal operating temperature unless I am on the highway for an extended period. And any attempt to use the heat just makes it worse. I've blocked off most of my grill openings and that helps, but it would be nice to be able to give the heat an extra boost.

Not sure that will work so well. Won't there be a restriction in the flow when you first turn it on? Coolant/engine cold - so thermostat closed - so coolant can't flow from upper radiator hose through radiator into lower hose - coolant must be pulled bassackward through water pump???

bbjsw10: What store did you order that "T" fitting through?? I may go the same route.

All this talk about keeping the engine warm in cold weather reminds me of something my father had hooked up to his car ('65 Plymouth Barracuda) to keep the engine warm enough to start during the brutally cold winters we had back in the 1970s. He worked at the Sperry Univac plant in Rosemount, and all the employees had to park their cars outside in a huge lot. Remember, this was back in the days when cars often didn't start in really cold weather.

He read about a device in Popular Mechanics magazine that would cycle the car's engine on and off without anyone in the vehicle. Not wanting to spend money on the plans, and being a techie, he built the device based on the description in the magazine. Not sure exactly how it worked, but it did not have an electronic brain at all. Just a bunch of sensors and solenoids and transistors and timers, etc. I know there was a temp sensor in the exhaust manifold. When the manifold temp dropped below a certain level, the starter would crank and the car would start up and run for X minutes and then shut itself off. It even employed a vacuum sensor so that if the car didn't start after X seconds of cranking, the starter would stop cranking for X seconds before trying again. All in all, a pretty clever set up. He called it "Maynard's Magic Motor Minder" and apparently people really did a double take when an empty car in the parking lot would suddenly start its engine with no one around.

All this talk about block heaters finally made me recollect a conversation in 1989 with an Alaska resident -
Technology - Coolant Heater
Espar - FAQ's

So what do you guys think? 500, 850, 1000, 1500 watts? Theyre all about the same price, $25 or so for 500 watts, 850 and 1000 are both about $31 and 1500 watts is about $35. Im thinking just go for the 1500w model and run it for less time.

I'd say go big or go home!

The only potential downside to the 1500w unit might be tripping your breaker if there's anything else on. If the circuit is rated for the load, you just need to make sure you're using a cord rated for it as well.