Geo Metro powered Middy - Build Log
 

Hello,

I have a Middy single-seat car I am building. I have had some inquires for a build log on this project, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I am a computer geek by day, and prefer not to do much keyboarding in the evenings, it gets in the way of throwing sparks, but I hope to post pictures as I take them, and answer any questions that come up. Also, I will have a bunch of questions to ask of the group too before this is all done.

Anyway, hope you enjoy. . .

Talon

Outstanding!! Anxious to see your progress!! :thumbup:

A few pictures
 

These are a few pictures that I'll post, just to see if they come out OK. I have a bunch, but these show kinda where I came from and where I'm at this moment.

I like the idea and I'll keep my fingers crossed for your project. Keep us posted!

Need more info!

What does "Middy" refer to - is it a type of DIY car, like the Locost? Locost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Locost style "Middy" is a mid engine version of a low cost DIY vehicle. Looks like one to me.:thumbup:

Nice. Confusing, though. What's the intent of the project? Obviously not speed... and who would daily drive a kit car?

What's the intent of the project? Good question, here goes:

1) Modularity, the rear engine section will be a seperate frame unit, including engine, transmission, drive line and suspension. First "power unit" will be the Geo Metro LXi 3cylinder 5 speed that I got given to me, and I intend to get it all licensed and on the road in that configuration. I intend to play around with other "power units" as well, but that will be later on. (Briggs vanguard belt driven to solid axle? - Kubota diesel mated to VW bug transaxle? - Warp 9 driving solid axle? - Flock of gerbils in an excercise wheel?)

2) Commuter, I have a 65 mile commute to take care of, so yes, it will be a daily driver. DIY cars kinda have a bad rep as not good for daily driving, I think that is bullocks. They can be made as safe, comfortable and reliable as your average '90s Buick.

3) My goals are: less than 1,000 pounds, under 2,000$ complete, enough ground clearance to handle 2-track dirt roads, 4 season drivability, enough room for a backpack and/or a couple bags of groceries, 75-80mpg, not too ugly, comfortable to drive, easy to get into/out of, and it has gotta make me smile when I drive it.

4) it has to fit me. I am 6'6" and 285, mostly in the shoulders. Very few cars have the adjustability to be comfortable for me without alterations, even the "compensation" trucks that are all over here in Wyoming are too short for my legs. Compact/economy cars are especially bad. I like small cars for fuel efficiency, but need to move the seat rails back on any car I claim as mine. (ownership history includes '78 Vega, '85 Toyota Celica, '97 Ford Aspire, Geo Tracker, and currently a '78 Subaru Brat on 33's.)

I have had my go at the go-fast cars too, now I want to experiment with the sip-and-go cars.

Basic plan here is fiberglass over foam body on 1" square tube frame, single center seat, mid-mounted rear engine, rear wheel drive, twin A-Arm front suspension, fully enclosed, street legal, 75mph capable, daily driver. I hope it works as I plan (hopefully I'm not too old to drive by the time I get it done. . .).

TALON §

I like your sense of humour anyway!

Looking forward to following the project.

Awesome. Sounds like a great project! I have the opposite problem with height- at 5'2", everything's really big...

Pics of the BRAT would be mush appreciated if you could :D

If you need any styling ideation sketches, shoot me a PM. I'm a car designer and would be glad to help. :)

Anyway, patiently awaiting some progress. I'm planning to build a daily driven EV kit car, so this build will be informative.

Sounds like an awesome project and should be a blast to drive.

Was checking out a little kubota triple they use in lawn tractors. 600+ cc, 16 hp. if you really kept the weight down and very aero, that would be a great engine and should deliver well over 100 mpg. I also read that you can turbo charge those things. That should get it above 20 hp.

The only trouble is, you have a long commute and being in wyoming, i suspect half of it will be into a 40 mph head wind. And then there is the fact that you are a jumbo sized S.O.B.. Kinda hard to make a small aero container to house an NFL tight end sized dude.

If you had a 15 mile commute and were a midget, i'd say go for a small tractor engine.

OT - Brat
 

I want to stay on topic, but Sven7 wanted to see the Brat, so here it is. Short lift, lots of fender trimming and wheel well "hammer mods". I actually drive it a bunch in the local bad lands around here. I don't bash in it, just wander around looking at rocks and stuff. I didn't want it tall and tippy, so a 2 inch lift is all it has, but I don't get stuck. Rattle can camo.

TALON §

That thing is hideous. I love it!

Body Thoughts
 

Here's where I need some help. This vehicle is going to have about a 7 foot wheelbase, and about 5 foot track. The center section of the frame is 3 foot wide, the "roll bar" looking thingy in the back is 24 inches wide at the top. The windshield is going to have to be flat laminated glass, 24 inches wide. Also, the radiator(s) is(are) going to be in the rear, so I'll need an opening for that on the side(s).

I was initially thinking cycle fenders on the front for simplicity, but enclosed makes more sense, if I can make it strong enough to support about 18 inches from the frame out to the wheels without too much bracing.

I am attaching a quick sketch. How would ya'all wrap this shape in fiberglass?

(I am needing to finalize the windshield frame at this time so I can finish the frame, so rough it fine, mostly the angle.

TALON §

I do (I've got 100k+ on mine), and Talon's going to (and commuting in Wyoming, his miles are going to add up fast), and we're doing it the hard way--kit cars where we have to create the kit first.

To me it's ecomodding to the extreme, where instead of modifying an existing car for improved economy, we modify an existing pile of steel tubing for improved economy. Anyway, lots of folks have, or intend to have, kit car daily drivers......including you!

Kit cars and homebuilts tend to be pretty spartain, and they're sure not everybody's cup of tea for daily transportation, but a round trip between my two shops is 328 miles...$35 in my Miata, $15 in my streamlined Locost; it's a difference of about a grand a year after taxes. Besides, I like the attention.:)

(Sven7, if that was a rhetorical question, please ignore my literal response.)

Talon, as it is going to be a single seater. I think you should go with open wheels. Why make it wide enough to enclose them? That is a lot of frontal area.

Open Wheel?
 

What will open wheels do to the airflow around the front compared to the smoother, but larger frontal area of enclosed front wheels? I guess the front wheels could be almost completely enclosed in the fender, like an Aptera. . .

Quick sketch from above, using a "rubber ruler" scale. . .

It is actually the windshield angle and where the bottom of the windshield meets the body that I am needing to finalize so I can finish the frame.

(I sure wish the snow would go away so I can pull the front spindles and steering rack off of my donor.)

TALON §

Why? I'm pretty sure that (unlike the tempered glass used for side windows) laminated windshield glass can be cut. So once you have an approximate shape, visit your local salvage yard and find a windshield close to it. You might get away with just slicing a section out of the middle of one.

As upright as it is (I'd prefer lower & more of a semi-reclining seating myself). I'd look at the Mercedes "boxfish" car for some inspiration: Mercedes-Benz Bionic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A buddy and I chopped the top of an old Ford once. We tried cutting the windshield 3 times, all of which failed. We ended up using a full size windshield and dropping it down into the cowl. We tried both sandblasting and an abrasive wheel on an angle grinder. Ow well, maybe it can be done, I just haven't had much luck with it.

You are right, it does look kinda tall, however it is actually a bit wider (36") than it is tall (32") through the body. It will have the wheels out another foot on each side, so there is a really exagerated "coke bottle" shape to it, and the wheel base will only be a foot or two longer than the track. At roughly 38-42 inches tall, it won't even reach the middle of the grill on a lot of the jacked up "compensation" trucks around here. I have even though of a "visibility pod" like the "California Commuter" so I don't get run over. . .

That Boxfish shape is a lot to think about. Almost verticle front would be nice for a grill, but I won't have one in the front. The windshield bottom is almost at the front of the vehicle, I can work with that. Cool. Thanks for the feedback.

TALON §

Windshield Angle set
 

I got the windshield support angle sorted out and welded in. I was studying the Boxfish car design, and went with a steeper angle than initially planned, but nearly matching the concept car angle. I then did a little doodling over the picture, just to see how it will tie together visually, and it is going to be a bit weird, but I think I can pull it together to fit the "not too ugly" goal.

I also got a chance to see my engine/tranny. I didn't pick it up yet for space reasons, but soon. It is a bit rougher than I expected, but I plan to rebuild it anyway, I'm not building a used car.

TALON §

Progress
 

I have been out of town for the last week or so, so have not gotten a chance to play in the garage much. I have gotten a bit done on the connection between the "passenger compartment" and the "Power Unit". Remember, I am intending to play around with power units and want to have an easily swappable modularized unit. With this idea, I can build a completely different power unit while driving another unit. The urathane bushings are plenty stout, and give me four bolts to un-couple the engine from the passenger compartment. The bushings will also give me a bit of engine vibration dampening for the driver while allowing me to solid mount the engine in the frame. There will, of course, be other linkages as well, but I think I can engineer them to be quick disconnects. Goal is to be able to swap a power unit in under an hour.

Anyway, here are a couple (bad) pictures of the engine compartment connection.

TALON §

LCA progress
 

I got the first of four A-Arms done this last week, a LCA. It came out of the jig pretty nicely, only about 1/64" from perfect, if I can get the other LCA this close I am good to go. The lowers are made from 3/4" extra heavy tube, which is the same as most aftermarket off-road pieces for full size trucks. The outboard end of the LCA is tapped for a 1/2 rod end and set at 10 degree of tip to match the KPI angle. I figure that the Lower Control Arms is one of those places I don't want to cut any corners on as far as strength goes. I'll sacrifice a bit of weight for stout. They are going to be exposed and flying down the road at 70 mph 6 inches from the ground. . .

There are some brake parts and spindles in the garage now as well, along with a bunch of "maybe" stuff, like e-brake handle, brake master cylinder (boosted), seat belts etc. The poor donor is looking kinda ratty now, and will get hauled off soon. I just need a few more parts from the front suspension.

I am going to try and use the rear spindles from the donor as front spindles. I'll need to fabricate knuckles to bolt the spindles on, but I think I can do that.

Anyway, here are a couple shots of the lone LCA that I completed.

TALON §

Knuckle
 

I have been working on converting the rear stub-axles I have to be used as front knuckles/spindles. Here's what I came up with. I had originally thought to use spindles/knuckles from a rear wheel drive vehicle, but Jack McCornack mentioned that he was going to use stub axles and build the knuckles, so I am giving that a go. (cheaper too, I had the stubs on the donor and would have had to find/buy the others.)

These are build from a piece on 3x1 thin wall tube, with a 1.5 inch hole in one side for the back of the stub axle. the 4 mounting bolt holes are reinforces with pieces of tube tacked inside. The "kingpin" angle is 10 degrees. The angle is made from a piece of 3/4 square thin-wall tube, plated on both sides and capped. the ends of the 3x1 are capped with pieces of 3/4 square tube. 13 pieces of steel altogether. The weight is less than it looks, as it is completely hollow.

The two threaded bungs aren't welded on yet, but should be tonight, then it is on to the adjustable upper arms. Once that is done, I'll have a uni-roller! The other side should be a lot quicker, as I have the jigs done and all the head-scratching out of the way.

TALON §

One front suspension side done
 

OK, Update time. I don't know if anyone is actually reading this, but I'm gonna continue to post updates anyway. Maybe when I get to the engine more people will be interested. I am doing a bunch of research on what I'm going to do on that end, and have narrowed it down to basically what I intend to do. It will be interesting. (think COP, ITB [possibly servo controlled], Megasquirt, bluetooth and Android touchscreen tablet interface.)

I need to get the chassis and running gear sorted out before any of that stuff means anything. If it don't roll easily and handle well, and if it isn't comfortable to drive - it won't get driven. If it doesn't get driven, it won't save any gas.

Take a look at the pictures of the first side of the front suspension. I just need to duplicate it on the other side now, which should be much easier as I now have the math sorted and the jigs made. (but running 7 - 2 inch deep, fine thread runs into the end of tubes takes time.) It came out pretty good and straight, all the angles are close and there is a couple inches of usable thread on all the joints for adjustment. The coil-over is just laying there, I'm not sure what the spring rate is on it, but I'll probably end up getting something else.

TALON §

I'm interested--I like seeing your updates. It looks very cool so far.

I don't actually have anything to add, which is why I haven't replied before now. :)

-soD

There are more of us interested than you realize. So many people on here are either building their own vehicles, or are constantly designing one in their heads. Look forward to seeing this project as it continues on.

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'm not alone in here!

Quick Question: electronically controller compression relief valves. Anybody know anything about them? Do they exist? I'm looking at something that would screw into a spark plug type hole into the combustion chamber. I see something kinda like what I'm looking for in big cube V twins to allow them to start. has anyone used them? is there any available that doesn't cost like an HD part? Let me know. . .

TALON

Talon: Keep updating! I'd love to have the shop and skills to build up a custom frame and create a really unique vehicle! I don't as of now, so I lurk and experience it vicariously. Good luck with everything.

Front suspension in Yellow
 

I got the second side of the front suspension fabricated, and even painted. I also have the front brake backing plates cleaned up and getting painted. Very soon I'll be able to put the front wheels on so I can see exactly how wide it is going to be. It looks like between 5'8" and 5'10" to the wheel centerline. Next step is I need to figure out the ackerman angle, which is going to be a guess at best, because I don't have the engine in yet, so I am guessing at the centerline of the rear axle. Maybe I'll figure out how to make the steering arms on the knuckles have a bit of adjustment. Then comes the steering rack and tie rods. Ow, I still need to sort out the front shock mounts too. Piece at a time I guess and eventually I'll have it.

I have been fiddling about with the seat belts as well, not sure what I'm going to do there, but I probably oughta have some. I have the shoulder straps from the donor, but I can't decide which way to mount the shoulder strap, like a passenger, or like a driver. Maybe I'll put them both on and switch off when one shoulder gets chaffed.

Here are a few shots of the front suspension from different angle, make sure you look at the car and not all the junk in my garage. . .
TALON

First time seeing this thread. This looks like an AWESOME project man! I can't wait to watch it's evolution on here.

Progress
 

I have had to work on other projects lately, so the progress has been slow. Good news is that the other projects have been going well, so I'll be back on the little car soon. I did have a chance to get the front shock mounts done on one side. I made the lower front shock mount a two piece thing so I can replace it with a little different configuration if I need to adjust the ride height once I get it on it's feet. I don't think I'll need to, but if you can't build it accurate, build it adjustable.

These pictures are of the one side at full droop. I had the shocks laying around from another project, but they are fairly universal motorcycle shocks, so I can get others if I need to adjust spring rate later. If they happen to work, bonus!

TALON §

Hi Talon, I just found your thread. Awesome build. This is something that I've thought about doing for a long while. Maybe once I buy and house and have some long-term project space... :) Thanks for all the posts, so far!

Pile of Parts
 

I got my engine/transmission picked up a few days ago and brought into the shop. Engine is put together "loose", it wasn't in a running donor, it was pulled several years ago and has been in a shop for a while. It is loose and turns over smoothly, I don't see any rust/corrosion/broken parts etc. and it looks like it is mostly there, and the price was right (FREE!).

I plan to re-build it anyway, so wear and tear I can handle. Here are a few obvious things I noticed so far on this unfamiliar-to-me engine. . .

1) Cam sprocket will need replaced. It looks like it was run with the cam sprocket bolt loose and the center hole is wallowed out. The end of the cam and the bolt look good though, and a degreed cam sprocket is one of the upgrades I want to do anyway.

2) Engine sure doesn't weigh much. I grabbed it by the ends and picked it up out of the pickup bed and carried it into the garage without getting my dress pants dirty. Anyone know what these things actually weigh? I'd guess the long-block to be 110 pounds? The transmission was a one hand affair to pick up and carry to the garage, 40 pounds maybe?

3) The axle shafts were not with the engine, so I guess I'll need to get those somewhere. Anyone know if they are the same side to side? (Will the splines line up on both sides.) I am going to need to fabricate axles anyway, so I only need the inner CV and enough shaft to cut/weld to. I'm not sure what I am doing with the outside hubs yet. . .

4) The wiring harness and computer was obvious by it's absence. I have read that the computer is one of the biggest differences between standard and XFi engines. Anyone know what I'll lose with a standard ECU? I am planning to build a fully independent engine control system, but would kinda like to get it running and on the road first the simplest way possible initially. Maybe I can fabricate an intake manifold and put a carb on it initially to get it on the road. (I've always wanted to try a progressive gang of Walbro cube-carbs.) The distributor looks like it has vacuum and centrifugal advance/retard, so a carb should work OK, and then I wouldn't need any ECU/wiring harness until I get into the independent system.

5) The front timing belt cover is missing. Also it looks like the belt tensioner may be broken.

6) Transmission is light and feels tight. I see the normal road gunk on it, but don't see obvious leakage anywhere to indicate bad seals. The shifter appears to be one shaft? I think I found all 5 gears and a reverse. Making a cable shifter may be kinda tricky. The shaft is pointing out to the rear, which is what it should do in the original car, and requires both push/pull and twist it appears. In my rear engine setup, the shaft will be pointing towards the back bumper, so I'll need something to completely reverse the inputs and put them on the other side of the engine and forward around 3-4 feet, while hopefully keeping something that still resembles and H pattern. I'm gonna have to think on that one. . . any ideas?

This weekend I hope to get a chance to pull the head and check the cylinder walls for wear. Also, I'll turn the head upside down and see if the combustion chambers will hold some diesel fuel overnight. I might get by without having to rebuild the head. Just some porting and smoothing and call it good. I also want to measure the cam to verify that it is an XFi. (under 40mm lobes = XFi / over 40mm = standard)

Also, does anyone know how to verify the XFi transmission? I have read about ways to test in the vehicle, but mine isn't in the vehicle.

Anyway, lots of questions that need answers and thought. . .

TALON §

Awesome thread! Good luck on getting some answers. You could also pm old_mechanic to see if he has any Input. I see him answering more difficult mechanical issues all the time.

EngineCage
 

I have been making progress, honestly I have. I just haven't been getting posts up very well. I have the engine/trans up on the bench and propped to the correct angle. That took a grunt, but I lifted them up there by just grabbing the ends and picking it up. I think I like working with little engines. Anyway, once I got it set to the correct angle I started putting metal around it. The engine cage is what we have here. It is tacked together and I started welding it, but ran out of wire before I was done. Remember, the engine unit bolts to the rear of the passenger compartment with four bolts, as you can see in the pictures, I have the engine and cage beside of the passenger section, which looks kinda wonky in some of the pictures. This power unit has three mounts, I fabricated one, bought one and modified one. Now I need to get the three attached to the cage somehow. I also did a little doodling on a couple pictures to show what I am aiming at. The full width of the engine cage is 4 feet, the front wheels are 6 feet apart, so I should have room for the McPherson struts outside of the engine cage. The axles are going to be long. In the overall picture you can see that I should have plenty of room for an electronics box and battery beside of the engine. I still need to sort out a shift linkage to convert the original solid linkage to a cable setup. I also need to find hubs, LCA struts for the rear. I can probably build the lower A-Arm, and I may even decide to do a double A-Arm coilover setup, but I do need hubs yet.

Anyway, work progresses. This wouldn't be any fun at all I already knew exactly what I was doing.

TALON §

This problem has been solved on mid-engined VW sand buggies. They have a single shaft. You might be able to do it with off-the-shelf parts. Try CB Performance.
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

I hadn't thought of a VW cable shifter. I haven't ever played with VWs, but if they are a single shaft, I should be able to find something that will modify to work. VWs have a HUGE aftermarket. Thanks for that tip, much appreciated.

TALON §

https://www.google.com/search?q=sand...hifter+linkage

You may find it's solid rods with swivel joints. Happy hunting.

I was actually thinking about a series of steering shaft u-joints for the twist part and a cable for the push-pull part of the motion, but the two-cable set ups I am seeing would be simpler. I looks like the VW kits clamp to a nose tube that the shaft comes out of and then to the shaft. My tranny doesn't have the nose tube to clamp to. But I am seeing other setups for Porsche 911 that has a bracket mounted to the tranny rather than the nose tube. I could make something like that work. Thanks for the direction.

Also, what is the benefit of two stick shifters? Simplicity?

TALON §

???? Any example?