GM: Aluminum truck beds are stupid. Ours will be carbon fiber!
 

Courtesy of https://jalopnik.com/gm-to-start-bui...ort-1821163846

The article does not really say much, except that that carbon fiber is even more expensive (and difficult to repair) than aluminum, but Ford, on average, charges more for their trucks, and sells more of them.

Readers commented that making the back end lighter does not make sense for a RWD vehicle.

I don't see the cost/benefit advantage of an aluminum bed. How much weight does it save? As pointed out, the rear end is already too light for the way 90% of trucks are driven (single occupant commuter vehicle).

Carbon fiber is a superior material and I'm sure it will hold up better than other metals. I'm surprised the auto industry hasn't made more extensive use of the material already. The cost is due to the manual labor involved, but there has to be a way to automate the process.

One challenge of using CF in the structure of a vehicle is that it is very rigid, which makes it a poor material for creating crumple zones. Steel and aluminum are good materials to collapse in a controlled way, dissipating energy. CF remains rigid until failure, and then collapses with very little resistance.

Readers are kind of idiots. Less weight in the back means you can add more weight to the back.

And as redpoint said, the back is already too light to be used like it is (around here, 75% of the trucks I see are spotless with all the paint still inside the receiver). The 2WD versions of these trucks should be FWD, honestly. And the 4WD version should have a toggle to switch on RWD/4WD.

General Motors need to join the 21st Century.

Current headlines at https://www.basalt.guru/

Ducati Monster features basalt fabric
Basalt Samples Online Store
Basalt fabric for wearable heat protective clothing
Basalt Mesh used in Concrete Countertop
Basalt vs Fiberglass

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7tvhl9rBNE

Makes them real interesting to watch in the winter, though. Especially the ones sitting in snowbanks along the side of the road :-)

But just as a practical* matter, I wonder how well the carbon fiber will resist abrasion from carrying loads of rock & gravel.

*OK, impractical seeing how few truck owners actually carry significant loads.

The burden of resisting abrasion will be placed on the plastic resin with which the carbon fiber will be soaked.

I heard a GM ad blasting Ford's aluminum box; "yah the steel is sooo much better, it doesn't dent up when you empty that loader of gravel onto it."

1. Almost nobody dumps **** into the box like that.
2. It's advertising fluff. GM had to figure out how to bad-mouth aluminum pickups... UNTIL they get THEIRS on the market.

Too bad you can't buy stock in Rhino-liner. They're privately held.

Carbon fiber is even stupider.
Remember I have worked with carbon fiber. This is just a bad application for carbon fiber.

What are the concerns with using CF to form the bed? I understand abrasion, but using an abrasion resistant epoxy, or a durable coating should protect against this. CF is extremely resilient against impacts and load bearing.

It also increased their load\towing capacity.

Probably the cost-effectiveness, and it might eventually be seen as more difficult to repair than sheetmetal or fiberglass. BTW it does sound quite surprising that GM would even attempt to use carbon fiber for such application due to the high sales volume, while it would seem easier to use fiberglass like it did not just with the Corvette but also with the Chevrolet Lumina APV, Oldsmobile Silhouette and Pontiac Trans Sport.

OTOH maybe it would be worth to consider using some vegetable fibers instead, such as the Agave sisalana.

I read that often people end up replacing carbon fiber parts instead of repairing them.

Unlike fiberglass which they usually just patch over.

Carbon fiber manufacture is pretty bad for the environment and is impossible to recycle.

I think they should go back to timber trays, at least they look pretty cool

I have no experience with CF and a brief horrible experience with fiberglass. What is more difficult to repair about CF compared with fiberglass? I would think they are similar difficulty to work with considering they both use a mat of high tensile material and a resin.

Can CF be used in a chopper gun like fiberglass, or can it only be laid out as a mat?

Worse than aluminum or steel? Both require mining and refining, with massive amounts of energy to process.

The recycle issue is of little concern since we aren't at risk of running out of carbon.

I, for one, will try — now that I know.

No love for basalt? It bends instead of shattering.

It's a bit difficult to know for sure but I've read report that say it requires 14 times more energy to produce than steel. There is also a lot of wastage in the layup process, I've read around 1/3 of the material is wastage and most ends up in land fill.
Recycling is the issue as it is the getting the raw materials that takes the most energy.

I haven't tried using basalt, I hear it's supposed to be better than fiberglass.

Denting wouldn't be the concern I'd have with aluminum (its presumably thicker, so more rigid anyway)...it would be metal fatigue. If I'm not mistaken, aluminum will only put up with so much flexing or stretching(as in a dent) before it cracks; steel will put up with much more without an issue.

Steel is strongest before stress is applied to it and gradually grows weaker as it's deformed. Aluminum is weakest before stress is applied and gradually increases resistance to deformation until it finally tears. Aluminum beds are probably tougher than steel up until an impact tears it.

If it's good enough for airplanes and rock climbing, it's good enough for a truck bed.

I've never used it, but I understand that CF is inflexible or something so that is is more difficult to get it to lay into the mold. It should work in a chopper gun.

Aluminum: lightweight, non-rust, deforming, and easily recycled.

Next question

So where do you find an abrasion-resistant resin? If you use some sort of bed liner on top of the carbon fiber, isn't that just increasing the weight that you're trying to reduce with carbon fiber?

Most people don't use the bed, and resin is probably more resilient than paint. If people are concerned about bed wear, they can add the relatively minimal weight of a bed liner.

Curious, I had read that there were three types of aluminum used in vehicles, it needed to be sorted, transported through the seven levels of the Candy Cane forest, through the sea of swirly twirly gum drops, and through the Lincoln Tunnel, but I do not see anything about that now.

It's a bummer when you come down, no?

If people don't use the bed, why the heck are they buying a pickup? And what are people that use a truck as a truck supposed to buy?

As for paint vs resin, paint's not structural. The bed will work just fine if the paint's worn off (at least mine does), and repainting's cheap and easy.

Bedliner is paint?

Buying a pickup and not putting anything in the bed is kind of an East coast thing.

Buying a pickup, ripping off the bed, and making a flatbed out of recycled pallet wood is a Springfield thing.

It's a Duhmerica thing.

Springfield = Duhmerica

You're Homer-ing in on it. :)

edit:
I misread your quote.

In the end, even after a carbon fiber bed is fitted with a liner, it's still supposed to remain lighter than a steel bed without the liner.

Another advantage is that it won't be so prone to damage like sheetmetal beds that corrode due to moisture buildups between the bed and the liner.

Basalt won't corrode as well.

I have a 2016 F150 4x4 2.7L ECB which I got for the better MPG's upto 26 Fuelly MPG's so lighter is better. Not bad for a four wheel drive truck.

Paul

Yup, I live in the heart of it too.

There is carbon fiber is cheaper than steel if you have 10 year design cycles,

Any shorter and you don’t get your investment out of the dies.

I haven't read everything but the first page. The type of carbon fiber they are talking about using is an interesting type. Carbon fiber is a blanket term for any type of mix that qualifies as carbon fiber. The really strong weave that people impregnate for one way strength panels (race skins- hoods, fenders, etc...) are very fragile. The stuff they are using will be identical to the type of "Carbon fiber" Ford used on the gt350. Its basically a lightweight plastic/carbon composite mix that is lighter than plastic but still as resilient to fracturing and looks just like normal plastic composites...
If you look closely at the plastic looking radiator cover with webbing. Thats the "Carbon fiber" I'm talking about. Basically becomes lighter than fiberglass, cheap to manufacturer and paint, and isn't as damn fragile as some of these impregnated composite weave body panels.
Realistically GM is just being hard headed and won't hurt themselves with their own "aluminum beds are ****" marketing campaign they had on Ford so they will implement a carbon fiber bed, and have aluminum body panels every where else like what is standard.
http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec...12/GT350-1.jpg

If your prefs were set to 40 per, you'd still be on the first page. :)

From watching 'AvE vijeos' on Youtube, I've learnt about fiber-reinforced injection-molded plastics. At scale, they could do a bedliner overmolding.

Don't know much about carbon fiber except that it isn't graphene. But basalt fiber is available as everything from felted mats to a variety of woven fabrics up to twills. As well as rigid panels and preformed extrusions, similar to other composite materials.

Apparently there exist very high-temperature epoxies for firewalls and firetrucks, etc.