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-   -   GM shuns "hybrid" label for latest electric-assisted model: Buick Lacrosse 25/37 mpg (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/gm-shuns-hybrid-label-latest-electric-assisted-model-15168.html)

MetroMPG 11-15-2010 08:29 AM

GM shuns "hybrid" label for latest electric-assisted model: Buick Lacrosse 25/37 mpg
 
3 Attachment(s)
Buick LaCrosse with "eAssist" EPA rating: 25/37 mpg (US)
Compare to LaCrosse without "eAssist": 19/30 mpg (US)
Compare to Camry hybrid EPA rating: 31/35 mpg (US)

---

Looks like GM is taking a new marketing direction for its mild hybrid "BAS" (belt-alternator-starter) system, which was generally ignored by buyers in the Malibu & Saturn Aura "hybrids", and dismissed by hybrid enthusiasts as weaksauce.

Significantly, it looks like they aren't going to use the "hybrid" label in their marketing. Now they're calling it an "eAssist" light electrification system. And buyers won't be able to ignore it because it's standard equipment on the LaCrosse.

Technical / efficiency details:
  • fuel economy up by an estimated 25 percent
  • 2.4L Ecotec direct injection four-cylinder, 180 horsepower
  • compact, liquid-cooled 15 kW induction motor
  • 15 kW of assist/regen from the motor-generator is 3x more powerful than previous GM BAS system (was 2 kW of power assist and 5 kW of regen)
  • 115V air-cooled (electric fan) lithium-ion battery, integrated power inverter and 12V power supply weighs 65 pounds (29 kg)
  • six-speed automatic transmission with higher gearing & electric-driven transmission oil pump
Looks like the car also gets new LRR tires and some aero upgrades over the previous year:
  • active grille block
  • underbody smoothing (panels, probably - doesn't say)
  • rear deck spoiler
Source: Buick News - United States - News

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1289827735

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1289827735

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1289827735

gone-ot 11-15-2010 09:40 AM

...interesting, especially the motor-generator application; wonder if they'll fit on other GM cars?

...notice the wording, they call it a "motor-generator" not a "starter-alternator"!

...but, quoting: "...While the eAssist system shares the same basic belt-alternator-starter configuration of previous BAS designs, it delivers more than three times the power and is much more capable than the previous-generation BAS system."

euromodder 11-15-2010 10:06 AM

Using the smaller displacement European Insignia engines would probably have been blasphemy. :rolleyes:

MetroMPG 11-15-2010 10:27 AM

Unfortunately, that's a reality of marketing vehicles in North America.

Which sucks.

Daox 11-15-2010 10:40 AM

Wow, they really upped the voltage and power on this one. Good idea. Wasn't the first BAS only like 36V or something like that?

jamesqf 11-15-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 204223)
Using the smaller displacement European Insignia engines would probably have been blasphemy. :rolleyes:

Well, they're orthogonal. No reason in the world they can't add this system to their European engines too.

The good part is that it's not even an option, just normal.

tjts1 11-15-2010 11:50 AM

3835 LB sounds like a recipe for bleh.

gone-ot 11-15-2010 12:06 PM

...all-American "lightweights" (not!)

CHEVY @ 3200 lbs.
BUICK @ 3800 lbs.
CADDY @ 4200 lbs.

Nevyn 11-15-2010 12:21 PM

Retrofit the eAssist system into a Cruze Eco. :)

dennyt 11-15-2010 12:42 PM

Wow, as pudgy as it is, this is a 25-30% increase in MPG, as standard equipment. Way to go GM!

euromodder 11-15-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf (Post 204239)
No reason in the world they can't add this system to their European engines too.

They get that mileage without eAssist.

But Opel could indeed add such a system to make it's EU engines even more efficient.
THE question to ask is why they don't use it.

5speed5 11-15-2010 05:14 PM

I like this approach. GM is definitely moving in the right direction.
37 mpg highway is impressive for a big car. I'm guessing a good hypermiler
could get it above 40.

tjts1 11-15-2010 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 204294)
They get that mileage without eAssist.

But Opel could indeed add such a system to make it's EU engines even more efficient.
THE question to ask is why they don't use it.

Because GM doesn't control opel anymore. Magna runs the show now.

cfg83 11-15-2010 07:17 PM

tjts1 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1 (Post 204305)
Because GM doesn't control opel anymore. Magna runs the show now.

Huh? Is that true? I remember the talks, but I thought that was cancelled :

BBC NEWS | Business | General Motors cancels Opel sale - 4 November 2009
Quote:

General Motors (GM) has cancelled plans to sell a majority stake in its European car business Opel, including its UK brand Vauxhall.
The US giant said in a statement that its board had made the decision because of "an improving business environment for GM over the past few months".

CarloSW2

rmay635703 11-15-2010 08:21 PM

Hmm, if I could get an Eassist from the junkyard and retrofit my cobalt :)

I could probably exceed the FE for prius's :)

jamesqf 11-15-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 204294)
They get that mileage without eAssist.

But Opel could indeed add such a system to make it's EU engines even more efficient.

Yeah, that's what I said. The eAssist doesn't depend on the engine, so if they add it to the European engines, they should see the same percentage increase in European mpg.

Ryland 11-15-2010 09:44 PM

I really like that the tac tells you if the vehicle is off, in auto stop mode or of it's engine is running, it's good info to have in a simple to understand format.

MetroMPG 11-15-2010 09:49 PM

Good observation. Don't see actual fuel economy info in there though. It might be something you can cycle through in the center display of the cluster.

euromodder 11-16-2010 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1 (Post 204305)
Because GM doesn't control opel anymore. Magna runs the show now.

GM bailed out of the sale and kept Opel.

The intention to sell Opel most likely never existed, and only served as a smokescreen to facilitate lay-offs.

rmay635703 11-16-2010 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennyt (Post 204249)
Wow, as pudgy as it is, this is a 25-30% increase in MPG, as standard equipment. Way to go GM!

There was one company talking of making this into an upgrade for any car, now that would be something neat.

Upgrade any old cludge with an E-assist :)

Never dimiss the power of belt drive http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/gr...smiley-003.gif
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/gr...smiley-003.gif

RobertSmalls 11-16-2010 07:09 PM

This is great news, but when did GM decide that Buick buyers wanted to spend a little bit more money on getting better fuel economy?

Did they say what the capacity of the battery is?

cfg83 11-16-2010 07:16 PM

rmay635703 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmay635703 (Post 204483)
There was one company talking of making this into an upgrade for any car, now that would be something neat.

Upgrade any old cludge with an E-assist :)

Never dimiss the power of belt drive ...

By any chance are you referring to the "Electrocharger"? :

Electrocharger / Retrofit PHEV Hybrid Conversion Kit :: Sigma Automotive

I followed it since 2006, but alas, it never came to be, http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...re2473-cry.gif .

CarloSW2

rmay635703 11-16-2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfg83 (Post 204488)
rmay635703 -

By any chance are you referring to the "Electrocharger"? :

Electrocharger / Retrofit PHEV Hybrid Conversion Kit :: Sigma Automotive

I followed it since 2006, but alas, it never came to be, http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-cf...re2473-cry.gif

CarloSW2

I remember seeing that one but it seems like one was going to be an alternator replacement.

Ah well maybe my memory is fogging.

jamesqf 11-16-2010 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 204485)
This is great news, but when did GM decide that Buick buyers wanted to spend a little bit more money on getting better fuel economy?

I'd guess that GM just wanted to raise their CAFE numbers. and if you're going to add some equipment to do that, it'd seem reasonable to do it on the pricier models.

MetroMPG 03-25-2011 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls (Post 204485)
This is great news, but when did GM decide that Buick buyers wanted to spend a little bit more money on getting better fuel economy?

Interesting tidbit: the e-assist car will be the same price as the V6, at least in the first year of production...

Quote:

Buick will offer the LaCrosse with eAssist as a no-cost option on the base car for the next model year; meaning buyers can select this setup or the V6 for the same price.
That should let them collect some interesting market research.

bwilson4web 03-25-2011 09:36 AM

I think it is more likely that GM is trying to keep any hybrid, tax rebates around for serious hybrids instead of their BAS-retarded, jokes.

Bob Wilson

orange4boy 03-25-2011 02:00 PM

The whole thing reads like an ecomodder's garage. Can't you just see the engineers, a couple of years ago, sneaking off to ecomodder on their computers then attending a meeting with their "new" ideas.

Alas, as we know, most of these ideas are very old. At least they are finally seeing the light of day.

gone-ot 03-25-2011 03:30 PM

...honest, it's not stealing, it's re-cycling, officer!

UFO 03-25-2011 05:06 PM

Now lets get that system paired with a diesel engine. I want regenerative braking.

gone-ot 03-25-2011 05:56 PM

...maybe GM could rename it "Lend-Lease" technology (to play to WWII patriotism?) with the marketing explanation:

"...it LENDS you the power to go UP the hill, then LEASES it back as you brake going DOWN the hill."

...what'cha think GM?

payne171 03-31-2011 10:07 PM

If we're talking about saving fuel on a grand scale, this may be a bigger game-changer than the Prius. Yeah, yeah, I know, Blasphemy! But...
This appears to be a system that GM would be capable of putting into EVERY car they make with much less effort than any other carmaker's system. Just imagine if GM offered a 25% improvement on the entire model line, including Corvettes, Camaros, and all of those trucks. GM's products would save more fuel in the first year than every Prius ever made. Me likey!

gone-ot 03-31-2011 10:21 PM

...hm-m-m, a 25% increase for an Eco Cruze would mean something like 53 MPG!

bwilson4web 04-01-2011 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne171 (Post 229143)
If we're talking about saving fuel on a grand scale, this may be a bigger game-changer than the Prius. Yeah, yeah, I know, Blasphemy! But...
This appears to be a system that GM would be capable of putting into EVERY car they make with much less effort than any other carmaker's system. Just imagine if GM offered a 25% improvement on the entire model line, including Corvettes, Camaros, and all of those trucks. GM's products would save more fuel in the first year than every Prius ever made. Me likey!

First, it helps to understand what they did:

GM’s Cruze Eco: Fuel Economy Without the Batteries | BNET
Quote:

. . . At the heart of the Eco model is a modest 1.4-liter Ecotec four-cylinder engine with turbocharging and variable valve timing. The six-speed manual transmission that comes with it offers a useful overdrive gear that helps it achieve the 40 mpg (city mileage isn’t disclosed yet).

Some other features that get the Cruze Eco to 40 mpg:
  • A shutter in the lower front grille that automatically closes at higher speeds for improved aerodynamics, coupled with a lower front air dam extension (watch out for curbs with that one) and a rear spoiler.
  • Lower ride height, which further reduces drag and improves air flow.
  • Lightweight 17-inch aluminum wheels with the same ultra-low rolling resistance Goodyear tires used on the Volt.
Russell said that the Cruze team went over “every weld flange” on the car and reduced them by one to two millimeters. It also trimmed gauge thickness on some panels. The net result of both operations was a 24-pound weight reduction.
What they deliver is 40-41 MPG "on the highway" for a compact car. As long as we ban them from urban travel and jammed up freeways and only for small payloads, it is a great solution. Considering the small size and highway-only performance that is 20% worse than the Prius, it really is only competition for the Jetta TDI, not the Prius.

GM spent a decade spreading FUD about the Prius with 'tall tales' such as unprofitable, battery frauds, the CNW Marketing "Dust-to-Dust" nonsense to bogus claims by Bob Lutz. That they finally built a car to compete with the Jetta TDI is good but it in no way competes with Prius performance.

Bob Wilson

payne171 04-01-2011 09:23 AM

You completely missed my point. First, I can't imagine GM really cared whether the Prius was profitable; they had to compete with Toyota at that price point whether Toyota was making money on them or not. Second, I doubt the first generation Prius was profitable; fortunately, Toyota goals were more long term than what GM would have planned.

More importantly, I was not comparing any particular GM product one on one with the Prius. But if GM has developed a simplified hybrid, ahem, E-assist system that can go on every car they make, that is big. It may not be the extreme vehicle the prius is, but jumping a 20 mpg car to 25 will save twice as much fuel as improving a 40 mpg car to 50. Even better, GM could be installing E-assist on a couple million cars a year in a very short period of time. Hybrid Synergy Drive will never be that.

MadisonMPG 04-01-2011 10:09 AM

Am I reading the gear ratios right?

1550 rpms @ 60mph?

bwilson4web 04-01-2011 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne171 (Post 229214)
You completely missed my point. . . .

Ok, works for me. You win! Science and engineering don't matter.

Bob Wilson

skyl4rk 04-01-2011 06:27 PM

It has automatic motor shutoff at stops, which is good for air quality. It has regenerative braking. 15hp of electric assist on acceleration.

I wonder if you can accelerate with a light foot on electric only without the gas motor kicking in.

What speed could a 15hp electric motor bring that vehicle to without any gas assist? From a hypermiling perspective, I need a motor that will e-assist in acceleration up to about 45mph, then shut down and let me coast down to 30mph. The battery can charge on uphill runs and when I need to keep my speed up due to traffic.

If the price point is $30k in 2012, and gas prices are at $4 per gallon, I bet the grey hairs (me included) will go for it big time. I know I would rather drive a bigger car with a smoother suspension if there were no mpg penalty.

cfg83 04-01-2011 07:33 PM

payne171 -

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne171 (Post 229143)
If we're talking about saving fuel on a grand scale, this may be a bigger game-changer than the Prius. Yeah, yeah, I know, Blasphemy! But...
This appears to be a system that GM would be capable of putting into EVERY car they make with much less effort than any other carmaker's system. Just imagine if GM offered a 25% improvement on the entire model line, including Corvettes, Camaros, and all of those trucks. GM's products would save more fuel in the first year than every Prius ever made. Me likey!

I would call it a "mild hybrid+" drivetrain. The Saturn mild-hybrids had the stop-start technology and the mini battery pack for eAssist. The Cruze-Eco has the aero-goodies. But the technology was/is not across the product line, it was/is a pri$ey option.

The Lacrosse (and Regal!) combines both MPG strategies and is not an option. I am very interested in what the LaCrosse sales will be because we should be able to gauge customer acceptance. It's also well-timed for the increase in gas prices.

Buick is now funneling Opels. That was going to be Saturn's job before they were closed down. I wonder if Opels will also have this technology standard?

At 26/37 MPG, that was my personal minimum (old EPA) MPG standard for compact cars. Sedans have come a long way.

CarloSW2

payne171 04-01-2011 07:42 PM

Who ever said science and engineering don't matter? I never criticized the Prius's science or engineering; I really never made any claim about the Prius. Or the Cruze. The point I made was about saving fuel, not in one car, but across the industry. You want science? How about mathematics? Let's assume the nation's cars average 15000 miles per year. A car making 24 miles per gallon will burn 625 gallons of fuel. Now your Prius gets 50 mpg. The most comparable car is a Yaris (from an economy standpoint ONLY). I'll use EPA numbers rather than real world numbers because they favor the Prius more. In that case, 32 mpg up to 50 is a 56 % improvement. More than half again as good, and it saves 170 gallons of fuel per car per year (300 versus ~470). ~17 million gallons total (about 100k Priuses sold last year). Very impressive.

Now, if you improve the fuel economy of our 24 mpg GM Generic by 25%, it only saves 125 gallons of fuel per car. BUT...GM sold well over 2 million cars last year. That would save 250 MILLION gallons of fuel per year. If the Toyota Prius ran on perpetual motion, 100,000 of them would only save 47 million gallons. Is anything GM has ever made a better piece of engineering than the current Prius? Probably not, but the economy of scale says that E-assist could have a lot bigger impact on worldwide fuel usage than Hybrid Synergy Drive (even including all of the other HSD cars sold) simply because it could be built on a much grander scale. I'm glad you're an engineer and a proud Prius owner, but I was arguing economics while you had engineering blinders on.

cfg83 04-01-2011 07:52 PM

Hello -

More details on the motor/alternator :

2012 REGAL TO OFFER NEW eASSIST FUEL-SAVING TECHNOLOGY
http://www.buick.com/content/dam/Bui...al_eAssist.pdf
Quote:

The eAssist power pack contains the lithium-ion battery pack, the integrated power inverter and 12V power supply. It is located in a compartment between the rear seat and trunk; and it is surprisingly compact and lightweight, weighing only about 65 pounds (29 kg). Trunk space is slightly reduced when compared with 2011 models with the four-cylinder/six-speed powertrain, but still offers 11.1 cubic feet (314 liters) of storage. A quiet electric fan cools the power pack, drawing air from a vent located in the package tray, behind the rear seat.

The eAssist systems electric induction motor-generator is mounted to the engine in place of the alternator to provide both motor assist and electric-generating functions through a unique engine belt-drive system. The induction motor-generator is a high-performance, compact induction motor that is liquid-cooled for increased performance and efficiency.

Next-generation six-speed

The eAssist system works with Regals direct injected 2.4L Ecotec four-cylinder and next-generation six-speed automatic powertrain combination. In the Regal with eAssist, the engine is rated at 182 horsepower (136 kW) and the next-generation Hydra-Matic 6T40 takes transmission technology to the next level with features designed to enhance powertrain efficiency.

Significant internal transmission changes to clutch controls and hardware provide reduced spin losses while improving shift response and time. The added electric power provided by the eAssist system allows for higher gearing to improve steady state efficiency without impacting acceleration performance or driveability. The systems ability to provide some electric assistance at cruising speeds allows the driver to accelerate lightly or ascend mild grades without the transmission downshifting.

An auxiliary, electric-driven transmission oil pump is added to the 6T40, which keeps the transmission primed and the fluid flowing when the engine shuts down at a stop. That keeps the transmission ready to perform when the driver accelerates, for a seamless, uncompromised driving experience.

Soooooo, if you're a featherfoot, you can keep the car from downshifting.

CarloSW2


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