Good, efficient, used vehicle for ride sharing? (EG. Uber / Lyft)
 

So if I’m gonna keep driving past December, I’m gonna have to get another, newer, vehicle... and while it’s still months away I have thought about cars for a little while... I know I won’t be buying new, I’m looking at used cars well under $10k... the immediate thought is a Prius, but that seems too easy and almost overdone...

I also thought of a newer diesel powered car such as a Jetta, Golf or maybe a Cruze? But I also like the manual transmission, which I don’t think the first gen Cruze TD has...

I also thought of bigger vehicles (for UberXL and such) and my first thought was the Mazda5... did you know the second gen 5 came with a six speed manual? It surprised me too...

Any thoughts?

As someone who has never done ride-sharing, what are the most important criteria? How many people will it be transporting, and does your vehicle selection change the pool of people who share?

Vehicles have to have four doors at minimum. I’ve seen cars like the Spark used but I imagine they’re cramped and many ridesharing “experts” recommend midsize or bigger... Prius is really popular (for obvious reasons), though for my city and it’s steep hills I considered finding something AWD to keep from having issues in winter, such as a 06-09 Legacy 5MT...

I briefly considered the Mazda5 because it’s a small minivan and it’s available in a manual which would make hypermiling possible

I'm not big on Uber/Lift because I don't think it pays well enough after all expenses are factored in.

That said, I'd get a new Chevy Bolt if it were me. With incentives here, I could probably get one for the low $20k. No maintenance, and electricity is about 2 cents per mile where I live. Federal incentives reduce in April, so my guess is these used EVs will appreciate, or at least hold their value.

If it really needs to be below $10k, Prius is the right tool for the job. Diesel fuel prices will be increasing soon.

I wouldn't get a manual because some passengers will think it's weird, and it jerks them around a bit. Stick to an auto.

I had forgotten about diesel prices going up, good call on that one...

IF I chose an EV, it’d likely be a used Tesla, for nothing other than their Supercharger network which would allow me to charge the car without coming home (an 80 mile commute), but my credit is SHOT so I’m not even gonna try and finance a $35-40k car, and since I don’t own my home anyway I couldn’t install the home charger for any EV...

Ideally I’d like to get a car just new enough to allow me to keep driving for a few years and build a nest egg with which to try again to begin home ownership. I could cop out and find a manual 07 Ion sedan and transfer all my mods and keep going, but my car IS kinda small and kinda hard on fuel in commercial use...

Ideally I’d like to save up enough to buy a car outright but I’m willing to try and secure a small loan for the right car, but with bad credit I doubt I’d be able to finance too much, and my budget (rideshare income aside) is pretty tight...

Prii hold their value really well last I checked but I seen an 07 with just past a quarter million on it for $1995... I figured I’d pass...

If I’m stuck buying a midsize (automatic) car and can’t afford a Prius, I’d also like to find either a Chevy Malibu (08-12) or Saturn Aura (07-09) with the 2.4 and 4speed auto. I’m leery of the GM 6T70 as it had the famous 3-5-R waveplate issue... I don’t know how well the Ford Fusion of that era held up over time...

At the price point I’m shopping in, I’d either have to get lucky buying an automatic that had known reliability or get a manual, which so far has started a lot of conversations with riders, and usually gets compliments...

Who are you ridesharing for? I thought vehicles had to be no older than 10 years?

I’m currently driving for Uber and Lyft; they require a vehicle no more than 15 years old

I would get a used Prius with an extra set of wheels and snow tires for winter. (There is a reason that Pri have taken over the taxi market)

If you frequently need to transport 4 people plus luggage I would get a Prius V.

Dieselgate VW TDIs could be another option and VW is flooding the market which is dropping prices. Eerything that was touched by the retrofit has an extended warranty. There are 3 generations and the warranty varies. My 2014 is covered until 120K miles. However, diesel is more expensive than regular and a TDI will return lower mpg than a Prius. Fuel for the TDI has averaged $0.09 per mile so far while the Prius it replaced averaged $0.07 per mile

Been looking more at cars, seen a couple nice 10-11 Malibus for around $5k-ish, between 100 and 120K on them... I think one had a V6 though...
I also seen a 2012 Mazda 5 (6MT) with 120k that I liked pretty well...

But I’m not buying for another several months, so I don’t need to jump the gun

Honestly I've noticed once vehicles get too old its hard to get them for a reasonable price. I had a hard time finding good shape low mileage vehicles under 3000$ (unless you like beater vehicles but Uber users will report shoddy vehicles). This was what led me to my 2010 Prius. No accidents. Prefect bod and a clean interior. In 2016 with 93k miles I was otd at the dealership for $7600. Even had them throw in New all weather mats, New wipers, and they aligned the front end. (Easily a $150 value).
Gas mileage won't matter too much but as a taxi in the inner city my Prius gets 50-65 mpg whereas a standard vehicle gets about 30.
But don't worry about mpg too much, just get something reliable (Japanese) that requires no maintenance.
50k miles later to 140k all I've done is a set of tires, $12 of oem spark plugs, four $19 oil changes (supertec 0w-20, oem oil filter), engine coolant for $25 with Toyota coolant, and blown out all air filters (they really don't get dirty with a hybrid I guess).
Man I didn't spend much on my civic but I worked on that thing constantly to the point I just got fed up and sold it, so this car has been amazing.
My vote is gen 3 prius (expensive), next is gen 2 Prius (less expensive), next is gen 2 insight (same price as gen 2 Prius), then next would be to add in corolla, civic, camry, then accord. Try and skip some of the old honda hybrids as there batteries are harder to replace and a lot more expensive to replace than the Toyotas.

Paint it black and that's Uber XL black big money! $$$$ jk (but I wish)

I would look into XL as you make a sizeable amount more! But... They are more picky and its not even available in my area. Lol
Black as well. They like hand select you so as to keep the value of the service high and limit drivers.

Can't say from experience if Black or XL is worth it, but my friend had bought a new Acura and rarely gets called for Black service. Instead he's picking up the normal bar crowd at the cheap rates in his expensive vehicle. One drunk guy jumped on the trunk, and someone else put a dent in the door. Uber paid to repair it, but what a hassle.

Regarding fuel economy, if you're putting in 50,000 miles a year like my friend, the difference between 30 MPG and 50 MPG is about 666 gallons, or close to $2,000 more at $3/gallon.

Looking again st the Mazda5, it falls into a weird place within Uber’s sizing... it seats 6, which means 5pax... Uber in some places classifies it as an XL, but an XL has to seat 6pax... I don’t wanna drive a full size van or something like that, but the little van will take care of the UberX rides where they try and stick 5 people in a car...

Sort of off/on topic, how is ridesharing ridesharing? Seems to me it's 95% taxi service. I'm libertarian and think anybody should be able to enter an agreement with a fellow willing citizen without government intervention but come on, if taxis have to do it so should all the rest, or vice versa, leave taxis alone. This is going to play out in many other areas as well, what I hope is where people embrace it in one area like Uber, they will see the good in many other areas. Vrbo or Airbnb have a strong foothold in breaking hotels the way we know them, I say we could do it with education and healthcare as well, probably a bunch of other ways as well.

As far as car I always vote minivan as the best taxi. You can still buy a brand new 2019 Grand Caravan for like $22,495 even less in active military or FFA member. MPG is not the best but it's not bad, we always get 18 city and have gotten 30 highway. Our 2011 is the same as a 2019 and with 80,000 miles on it is worth about $8000 if you look used. We have had not a single problem with this van, just brakes, tires, and oil changes.

I take exception to ridesharing too. You're not both going to the same destination usually. It's a taxi service. I've got no sympathy for taxis because most of the prominent ones are cartels. Back around 2004 I was looking into starting a taxi service in Portland, but found out it's a cartel too. You've got to convince the existing taxi companies that you deserve to play their game, and somehow that's supported by law.

I'd love to see all areas become more self-regulating. Heck, I don't find anything wrong with seeking medical care from someone that has advertised their experience and qualifications accurately. For instance, I don't need a doctor to ask me "this one, or that one" when doing an eye exam for prescription lenses. Any monkey with the skills to operate the equipment will do. In fact, skip the monkey and just have a robot ask me and flip through the lenses.

This is the year 2000, and we've still got doctors looking at things and interpreting what they see rather than a machine looking and comparing to a database of millions of other images. I guarantee a machine can see at higher detail, taking more points of reference, and make a better prediction about what it's seeing.

The problem with a minivan is fuel economy. If we use the EPA combined mpg and a fuel cost of $3 a gallon the difference between a Caravan and Prius is $9230 every 100K miles.

A guy at my work drove Uber for two years full time before landing his current job. He was driving his Ford C-Max 75,000 miles per year. At those kind of miles the extra fuel cost is $575 per month. That is the car payment!

Thanks for mentioning that. I'd add C-Max and Fusion hybrid to the list. They are excellent vehicles that get 45 mpg. Both are axed too, so they might hold their value since they will be the newest of their kind.

I might be a little biased as I just bought one, but Camry hybrids can be found about as cheap as Prii (at least in my area). You get a good size, normal looking car that should return mileage similar to most compact cars.

Sounds like you're already using your Ion, what's the profitability of ride-sharing in your area? I did all the work to drive my Prius for Uber and Lyft, but ended up never doing it after the reality of it set in (low pay, having to work nights/weekends to hope to make that low pay). And that's with a paid off car that I don't care about putting miles on, not something I specifically bought for ride-sharing.

I bought and then ecomodded a 2010 Honda Insight in late 2016 in order to drive for Uber and Lyft. I spent, taxes and stuff included, about $6700 on the car, it had 86k miles on it at the time, now it's got 135k miles. For a while it was my only vehicle. I still have it, but I stopped rideshare driving a little over a year ago.

The Insight is pretty good for Uber//Lyft but maybe a little on the small side. However, saving on gas is where it helps you. I don't think you can be profitable with ride sharing if you aren't getting at least 40 MPG. You need one of these or a Prius. EVs won't work if they're low range. (<100 miles) The only exception would be a minivan because with that you can get higher fees for large groups of passengers, but I've never done that so I don't know how common that is.

As to profitability, right now on weekends I’ve made close to $20 an hour driving on just one platform, call it $300 for two days at an average 8 hours a day (usually 6 first day and 10-12 the second), and after fuel and car washes I normally profit $220-240... my car gets around 20mpg while driving in town (really steep, 1st gear hills and lots of stop and go)... that’s less than I *could* make working OT at my day job but the time is difficult to get and it’s usually offered on a few mins notice (get call at 9:45 asking if I can be there by 10), so I appreciate the flexibility

The issue with buying a car is mostly my credit. While I’ll likely have 20-30% to put down on a $5-6k car, that doesn’t buy much and I’m not even sure if I could get financing

As you've just said, you might make $220 in 16hrs of driving, which works out to $13.75/hr. I don't know if that money is also taxed, but if it is I'm sure it all comes back by itemizing your expenses. Factor in the extra time you spend cleaning the car, refueling it, etc too. Just because you aren't driving doesn't mean you aren't working. Then there's depreciation from wear and tear and miles. I wouldn't be surprised if when everything is factored in, it's more like $12/hr.

People's time are worth differing amounts, but even $15/hr isn't worth my time. That's a very slow way to become a millionaire. You have to think of the opportunity cost. Instead of 16 hrs of driving, if you devoted even 2 of those hours to studying a trade, that would probably be more profitable.

Besides all that, most people are better served by paying attention to their spending rather than their income.

It sounds like you're tracking the income from Uber pretty well. I'd certainly track all time spent, plus my income and expense in a spreadsheet to see how well things are working out. I'd do that for all sources of income and expenses too. Really shows where you can save and what's the most beneficial use of your time.

I’m hoping that driving for both platforms would boost the income to closer to $25-30/hr gross and keep me busier during the slower times of day... don’t get me wrong, if OT were available at my day job whenever I wanted/needed it, the ~ $19.52x12 hours would be better than driving and it doesn’t have an 80mi commute, but my day job sucks and the time isn’t readily available, and I like driving more than being nailed down to a second job...

I’m torn between an efficient/moddable midsize car (still considering the 5) or trying to get something big to try and boost earnings... bigger would likely mean older though and not only harder to finance but harder to justify the loan at all...

Get your credit back on track because you'll need it someday, if only to get a home mortgage.

I almost drove for Uber myself in my Acura, but it failed inspection due to tire tread depth, and I didn't pursue it again because the pay isn't great. Driving and meeting people are enjoyable to me though, so it definitely appeals to me.

It's hard to imagine a van paying off. I'd do some research to see what percentage of rides to expect. Lugging the extra size around for all the 1 and 2 passenger trips doesn't make sense. Not only that, but minivans are notorious for needing more repairs, and those repairs cost more. A brake caliper for a van is going to cost more than for a Prius, for instance. Heck, the Prius will probably never need brakes in the first place.

Also:
MileIQ to count all miles while active as an Uber (Uber's mile counter is horrid).
And: you just claim all the mileage on your taxes and you can get it back as business expense. Its like 54.5c.mi? or maybe 52.5c/mi

So far, I’ve yet to have been inspected by either platform, period. They both do a self inspection and WV has an annual safety inspection, I assume that’s why they haven’t looked over my car...

I’m currently looking mostly at the GM Epsilon platform (Chevy Malibu or Saturn Aura), and late G2/early G3 Prii, for some reason still considering a Mazda5/6MT (built on same platform as 3 so should be similar to maintain), and recently reconsidering another Nissan Altima (just would have to be manual and not CVT)...

I’m a little nervous of the traction battery in a Prius, as it turns the car into an expensive yard ornament if/when it fails... would it be better to seek a lower mileage car or higher mileage? Thought is that high miles=more frequent use and better battery health...

I mean the initial inspection to begin driving. Maybe it's different requirements in different states. In Oregon/Washington, you have to pass an initial vehicle inspection.

Except I bet real world and $2.50/gal gas doesn't work out to be that big of a difference. Heck I doubt I end up spending $10,000 in gas total for my first 100,000 miles in the minivan so unless the Prius is free. How much more does an XL make? How many more fairs will you get not trying to cram 5 passengers into something that just barely will do it? I know if I was in say Seattle without a car and looked for an Uber to give the family a ride, I wouldn't accept anything smaller than a minivan.

What about social security and Medicare as self employed? Do those have the same deduction?

Those are never deductible as far as I know. Income tax is the only thing that can be deducted from. There's EIC (earned income credit) for the really poor where they get tax money back that they never paid in the first place.

I’m not sure how much more an XL makes but to feel good about driving XL, I’d need an actual real sized minivan and not the Mazda5 (which only seats 6 total), the most common are the Chrysler/Dodge vans and I have a deep seated distrust of anything DaimlerChrysler or FCA. I like the Mazda because it’s available in a 6MT(alleviates fear of automatic trans reliability) and it serves those pesky rides where a rider tries to stuff five additional people in my Saturn, and is rated at 21/28 so prob wouldn’t use much more fuel than my car(rated 23/32) does...

And I was saying there was no initial inspection for me, other than me signing off on a statement saying my car is in “good working order”, no pics taken whatsoever...

My last company vehicle was a Dodge Grand Caravan with 100k miles on it and 4 years old. The tranny felt a bit sloppy, like it wasn't going to hold up for too many more miles. The rest of the van seemed like junk too.

That’s a lot of why I don’t want one... sadly, GM doesn’t do much better in the seven seater arena, with the Traverse/Acadia/Enclave/Outlook having timing chain issues on both the LY7 and LLT V6 engines and the famous 3-5-R waveplate issue in its 6T70 transmission... since Ford co-developed the trans, that boots out the Flex, Edge, Taurus, etc...

Someone at work mentioned Hyundai or Kia and I asked them if they were smoking crack lol... i have a hard time looking past the cars from the early 2000s that just plain sucked...

Due to not wanting a bad automatic trans, I’m wanting to seek out a manual if it’s availabe in the model I’m looking at... due to this, if I can’t find a good Prius, should I go down to a compact class car?

Doing 400 miles a week for your regular job, I'd stay in a car that get 40+ mpg hwy.

I really like my Elantra, they can be had with 6 speed manual. My son go 50+ indicated mpg on the drive home from the dealer with the auto. I used it for work for a few days in December, it was only a 4 gallon fill but got 49 mpg. I've been driving the 2010 cobalt lately and driving similar to the Elantra in December and best tank is 33.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...5957/overview/

The side job is the one with the 80mi commute (one way), my day job has me driving like 18mi a week lol...

It’s worth mentioning that whatever car I end up going for, it needs to be big enough to sleep in, because in between the two days in a row that I usually drive I sleep in the car instead of getting a motel room or driving home...

I've had dodge minivans since 1988 some with over 200,000 miles and have never had a transmission issue. Early on many people including quick lube shops thought GM spec trans fluid was an acceptable substitute for the Chrysler fluid, it even said something about it on the early dip sticks but it meant emergency use, to be drained and replaced with ATF4 as soon as possible. I've seen 'bad' Chrysler transmissions fixed with just a proper fluid change and last 10 years longer in the case of a van my father had. Not saying they don't fail, but I'd bet money the Honda Odyssey has more failures through the 2000s and the last 10 years they both are pretty solid. We also use the grand caravan for mail delivery at the post office and they are really beat on without issues. They of course don't make a manual anymore but I didn't think a Prius came in a manual either.

Well, I bought the Prius to sleep in. Seems like you've got the answer that you don't want to accept. Gen III can be had for under $10k now. I'd go with a 2012 or newer.

It’s less about not wanting to accept the Prius and more of worried about affording a good one, and afraid of getting a bad one...

The other cars mentioned are runner ups but they are also cheaper from what I’ve seen

Don't buy a Prius unless you drive 20k+ miles per year, and your average MPG is <30 MPG, otherwise the fuel savings won't make up for the cost of expensive components...hybrid battery, transaxle, etc.

1st gen Civic hybrid, manual, would be perfect - I slept in my Civic once and it was fine. Best part is when the IMA dies you can bypass or remove it and get pretty much the same fuel economy.