The guy that survives on no money.
 

Basically he lives in a cave and forages for food/clothes.

COULD YOU SURVIVE WITHOUT MONEY?MEET THE GUY WHO DOES: DETAILS Article on men.style.com

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I live on almost no money. Quite well too I think. :thumbup:

And you have a spiffy hat too :cool:

Several, in fact! :)

umm....Good for him.
I am glad he is happy.

I know a few people who somehow manage to regularly spend more money than they have. Does that count?

I'm halfway through a book on ethics, which is really full of questions and no answers. One question that now arises: If you have a skill that would improve the world for everyone around you, do you have a moral obligation to practice that skill? Suppose you were an engineer, and you could develop cheaper lithium batteries. Would it be immoral to live in a cave instead of working 40 hours a week toward on that project? 60 hours a week? 80 hours a week?

I believe it would be morally wrong to withhold your skills from society, even if your skills are nothing greater than cashing out people at the grocery store quickly so they can get on with their day. However, if you blindly do what's best for the greater good, chances are nobody will be looking out for your needs. You have to find your own balance between work and play, and between altruism and selfishness.

Suelo (cave-man) is correct that people need challenges in their life. However, it's my uneducated opinion that he would find a more suitable challenge in being an anthropology professor than in foraging for food. IMO, Suelo has the right idea - to be happy with less. But he takes it way too far, and removes himself too far from society. He should find a marketable skill he enjoys, and practice it for money. He should work hard enough to buy himself four walls and some soap, and put fresh meat, rather than roadkill, in his belly.

Hmm... Is it ethical to put social stigmas and artificial expectations on someone who has had their fill of society? ;)

Humm... I've known too many people who manage to survive without earning money: they mooch off other people. It seems as though this guy is doing at least a bit of that, by using the tax-supported public library's computers for his blogging when he doesn't pay taxes. I likewise wonder if he actually owns the cave he lives in...

There's nothing wrong with learning to live on less, or making use of what other people discard. (I myself can't make a trip to the local landfill without wanting to bring back more than I took :-)) But I think this guy has gone overboard.

I dont think we can help mooching

My friend (with cc debt) cleans out his fridge and throws away food from time to time.

Some of them are frozen in their original package and are still good.

If I didnt mooch it, then every resource that went into making that would be lost.




I dont think I would live in a cave. Maybe a small shelter/cabin I constructed myself.

I have skills but past employers were more interested in office politics. Now my skills are for me only.

There is a LOT of fat of the land to scavenge!!! :eek: American slobs throw enough in the dump to sustain another entire society. If "mooching" involves gainfully and properly utilizing a resource that would otherwise go to waste, then I'm all for it. :thumbup:

Thank You!!! That was a good read. I love the idea of converting waste to resource. Often people ask me how they can make more money. I tell them you have a limited amount of income. If you cut your fixed expenses you will not spend as much and you will have more. His life must be an adventure living as he does, like a hunter gatherer he must always be looking for the obvious opportunity to collect things he needs.

I do not agree that the individual should attempt to maximize his support of society. Many individuals are trying to avoid society because of the damage society has done to them.

True. It seems the more one has, and known to be inocent, the more likely to be inspired to crawl off after the epiphany..nobody cares..

I myself am a typical case of broken. I have no mercy at all. Money is number 1 not to have alot of.
Self declared kings is americas retardation, nepptism like a royalty..we have to watch the money fail..and everything that could move on truthfully with it. automobiles for example.. :confused:
I am still better off with facts, no blue book value and a mig welder.:thumbup:

But taking something that would otherwise be thrown away isn't mooching. Mooching would be if you made a habit of showing up at your friend's house every night around dinnertime...

It's unfair and maybe impolite, but it may be morally right. As an ethical Utilitarian, I believe that the moral value of anything is determined by its outcome. So if I light a fire under a man's ass, it was the right thing to do if it got him to pull himself out of absolute poverty and into a shack where he's ultimately more comfortable.

Utilitarianism is a good basis for your moral compass. The action which does the most to improve conditions for people is, ethically, the best. However, what is the quantity you want to maximize? Happiness? Pleasure?

Pleasure seems so awfully arbitrary to me. Once the needs of the body are met, as they are for all but the poorest 1.5 billion people on earth, we have no further need to enjoy the taste of food or the comfort of a warm bath. I believe a hedonistic utopia would look something like this, which I find repugnant.

Happiness is fine, but the relentless pursuit of happiness will leave our descendants no better off than we are. I believe a life of pleasure, happiness, and contribution to technological advancement, is the right kind of life to live. In fact, if you look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs (and you should look it up), you find pleasure at the bottom, happiness in the middle, and progress at the top. The rest of the things on Maslow's list are also worthwhile pursuits.

My moral compass says the most moral course of action is to enjoy life while living up to your full potential, and to help others to do the same.

I am not a saint.

Oof-da. I'm living up to about 1% of my potential. Hope I don't burn in Hell for it. :eek:

or it may be morally wrong, is the world not a big enough place for a couple cave dwellers? Do we need to impose capitalistic values on the fourth world so kids can assemble crap for us all day?

It is not morally correct (in my views) to suggest that another person is morally incorrect without evaluating the entire situation.

By removing himself from society as a whole, he's drawn attention to himself from that same society that he apparently wants no part of. Even negative attention is attention, as a child would inevitably say. You still care, in some form or another.

By removing himself from society as a whole, that man may actually be performing the greater good for society, by helping to teach them that they don't always need to be consumer minded, don't necessarily need to make $15/hour to survive, don't need to overspend on ridiculously priced goods and services that DON'T serve the greater good (and thus, are immoral, by your opinion), don't need to drive cars and SUVs everywhere they go.

He's teaching people, even if they don't acknowledge it, and teaching is a far greater form of contribution than any labor could be, as we know from the fish/corn stories.

How, now, is this man being immoral?

If someone got their education from public schools (tax payers paid for it), then that person should give something back to society. Look at Chris McCandless from Krakauer's book "Into the wild": He goes through the public schooling system, and soon after finishing high school goes to live off the land in Alaska. Take, don't give. On the other hand, noone asked him if he wants to go to school, as school is usually inficted on people at a young age, often against their will.

On the other hand, if someone is self-educated then he himself should decide on which skills he shares with society. If somebody knows how to construct a bomb using household materials, should he go ahead and do it? Should he publish this info on the Web or should he keep it to himself? My personal opinion is that he should keep it to himself, because people can't be trusted to act intelligently and/or morally. In an ideal world he would publish it, and that info would be there for scientific purposes, not for killing others.

Personally I have nothing against eating someone's left-overs. On many occasions I've polished off someone's plate. Unfortunately, I've had to resign from many more plates, since society doesn't approve of this behaviour. I've never done it because I didn't have money for food, but b/c I don't like things to get wasted. If I can eat something that would normally get tossed, and save some money at the time, then good. If I use that saved money on something useful, like donating to a charity or buying someone a lunch, then even better. Having somebody else sponsor your food when you can easily afford it is not good. In an ideal world, people wouldn't waste so much. They would eat out the fridge before buy more junk. Restaurants would have more portion size options than "Jumbo" and "XXXL", allowing people to eat less without throwing anything out.

Speaking of portion sizes... there is a place in NYC that makes Pastrami sandwiches with the express intent of their customers NOT being able to finish the 1+lb sandwich. It's quite disturbing and wasteful.

I say screw society. I went to the Chinese restaurant in town a few weeks ago, and while my wife and I were sharing a plate, the family seated behind us ordered an entire platter of General Tso's Chicken, but never touched it. The waitress came out to clean off the table, and as she was cleaning up around it, I grabbed the plate and placed it on my own table. I then called a friend of mine, who was greatly appreciative of the free chicken feast he was just given by some wasteful family.

As a means of survival, I've literally eaten garbage. As a means of just being cheap, I've salvaged "expired" food from dumpsters. In fact, there was a whole group of people "caught" doing so behind a grocery store local to me. That grocery store now locks up their trash bins. They actually got mad, saying that "if we let you take our garbage, you'll just wait for us to throw it away." They pressed charges on several people for theft by unlawful taking (of garbage).

Instead of letting those who couldn't otherwise afford it, have it, they're more interested in maintaining a profit margin. Shameful, at best. I still do it on occasion, but not nearly as often as I used to, due to increase police presence in the area. Meanwhile, most of the things I own used to be someone else's garbage, including Cara.

Food waste is epidemic... all pervasive... it's... just... so.... MADDENING!!! :mad:

I've worked in the restaurant industry. People will order an x-large pizza, eat two pieces out of it, and send the rest to the dumpster. WE OFFERED SMALLER PIZZAS!!! :rolleyes: If it only happened once, I wouldn't have brought it up. But it happens ALL THE TIME. :mad: Restaurants DO offer smaller portions, or try to... then nobody buys them. I ate out with a (scrawny) couple who both ordered the same entree, then they both proceeded to eat just a tiny portion (no complaint about the order), then they both left the bulk of it for the dumpster. DAH! Restaurants will glady split an order and bring another plate. Or box it up for you to take home. I just knew that those two made a regular habit of nibbling then tossing the rest.

Buffets!!! :eek: I wonder what the stats are there for food consumed vs. food wasted!!! They should charge extra if the customer doesn't clean their plate (or, charge all customers the same but give a rebate for those who clean their plates). OMG. I've seen families literally empty an entire bin of an item (ex. eggrolls, or shrimp) then leave it on the table virtually untouched when they go. Or- rather- if there are kids (anyone under 25 :rolleyes: ) the remaining food is all over the floor.

I've personally grabbed food from other tables in restaurants too. Hey, if I observed the patron the whole time and I know it's untouched, and they didn't sneeze all over it, then I'm all over it. You should see the looks of shock and disgust I've gotten by doing that. Actually, what should be shocking is that almost nobody DOES do that.

I'm a farmboy, alright? I love farm animals. We had crops too. I know the work it takes to produce commodities. It makes me LIVID when people treat food so callously, ESPECIALLY meats. Taking a bite out of a sandwich and tossing the rest means that poor animal gave it's life in vain. There shouldn't be any legal penalty for me if I go kick someone's *** for wasting meat, should there? If there was any justice there wouldn't be.

Reminds me- I was out for supper yesterday and when I arrived at the restaurant on my electric bicycle I parked next to an SUV, which I noted was idling and there was nobody in it. OK, so I order, wait, eat, take my time, all that. Finally I leave and that damned SUV is STILL idling. :mad: They must have wanted to run the A/C? Well it was 75 and dry out!!! :mad: It took all my willpower not to approach Mr. Idleballs and tell him "Did you know the U.S. has 3% of the world's population yet consumes 50% of the world's energy?" but I refrained because... well... who am I to ruin some stranger's dinner out? And would that have the desired effect anyway? Was I wrong to let it slide? What I'd really like to do is go in there, shut it off and grab the keys, and throw them on the nearest roof. But then I'D be the one in trouble! Go figure!

Dumpsters- ya know, I never set out to be a dumpster diver; it just happened by accident. There is SO MUCH in there that's perfectly good that the crime is in NOT taking it and properly utilizing it. :mad: As noted above, local bidnesses frown on diving and have gone to compactors, completely removing outside access to the goodies. They suck. It's not like they lost any sales. I wasn't going to purchase any of that stuff in the first place, and I don't go in there to purchase it now, and as far as that being "theft", well by putting it in the dumpster they essentially declared it was waste to them right? But I was more than happy to salvage it.

It's not a question of what I can afford. I can buy tons of crap just like everybody else. I just have this thing about waste I guess.

RE: Keys in the SUV

I've been known to do a few dick-ish things when I see this... such as setting the parking brake and leaving it idle in gear. Removing the keys, but leaving the lights and extraneous voltage drainers on. Brick on the gas pedal. Turn the heat on high, and leave it that way.

All, of course, before I adopted my current lifestyle. I used to be quite the evil child.

The worst one I've ever done was publicly announcing that someone had left their car idle for an extended period in a restaurant. I got kicked out for it. I literally stood next to my table, and called out something like "Excuse me - If you are the owner of X SUV, please, stop increasing gas prices, and shut the damn thing off. There is no need for it to idle while you're eating in this restaurant, and we'd all like to be able to afford to drive home - Thank you."

Someone got up and left, apparently embarrassed. Shortly thereafter, the manager comp'd my meal and asked me to not come back. Fair enough, I suppose.

RE: Dumpster diving - When I lived in Endicott, NY, a short time ago, I used to pick up computers and components on the side of the road, every Wednesday night, just before trash was picked up on Thursday.

One time, a man waited up well into the night, so that he could see who was "stealing his trash". Apparently, he was upset that someone had found value in that which he did not. He evidenced this by stating loudly: "It ain't worth dick!" To which I replied - "Then why do you care if I take it?".

When that man threatened to call the cops, myself knowing fully well that at this point, the law was on my side *for once in my life*, I volunteered my phone to him. Promptly, (surprising) the officer showed up, and told the man that even if there was anything he could do, he wouldn't bother. Any time someone feels like picking up the garbage left behind by the more wasteful people in the city, it saves the city landfill space, even if it's just a little bit, so they actually encourage people to snoop trash, as long as you're not disturbing others or making a mess. Once you put it on the little patch of grass across the sidewalk, it's not yours anymore. It belongs to the municipality in which you live, but you have the right to take it back, until it hits the truck.

The guy started purposely not putting his trash out until the garbage truck was right there. I found this amusing, because he was so disgusted by my actions that he would intentionally put himself out, just to stop me from doing something that I would simply do at the next house down the line anyway. I hope he was happy for what he'd done, because it affected me and my goals not in the least.

Rent-A-Center is famous for throwing away salvageable stuff and really nice furniture because of simple problems, like small rips or stains.

What is garbage, anyway? At what point does something cease being something and suddenly become garbage? When it touches the inside of the trash bin? When it drops to the floor? When someone decides they're not going to eat anymore? Is an untouched piece of pizza, sitting on a plate at an empty table in a restaurant garbage? Does it already have cooties? Will you get sick if you touch it? How is it different from 10 minutes ago when its "owner" was still sitting at the table?

I've given these questions to people who commented my opinion about eating something that's hit the floor ("5 second rule") or sticking my hand into the garbage bin. Things I pull out of a trash can were in someone else's hand just an hour ago and they weren't disgusting then, were they? Well, what happened in the can, some super-fast chemical process? Geez, for most people the trash bin is a black hole - anything that goes in can't come out. But the garbage bin under my kitchen sink is just as clean as a box on the shelf. I wash it every now and then, so there are no biological microcultures living in there. Even if there are a few bacteria, and they somehow make it to my intestines, then chances are slim that it will do me any harm. Most likely nothing will happen, at best my body will be that much richer.

In my opinion, garbage should be public the moment it hits the curb. If its owner doesn't want it, then let someone else have a look before the truck comes to get it.

To clarify about eating "garbage" -

Literally garbage. Food that was being thrown away because it COULDN'T be sold, be it due to mold or other reasons. I still do this to this day. Bread gets a little mold growing on it, I just remove that section of the bread. Cheese, cut off the end. Meat gets a little dark, cook it anyway. You can't get diseases from properly cooked foods.

I've been to the point where I've bought floor scraps from butchers... ya know, the "undesirable" ground meat that people buy for dog food. Mix it with boiled rice, and it's a decent meal. 3 lbs lasts an entire week for one person like myself, and it only cost about $1.00 to make, plus fuel, etc.

I don't consider it garbage unless I won't touch it. And that takes alot. I guess when you call a highway bridge home, you kinda learn what's really garbage and what could be your proverbial "t-bone".

Ha ha, I scored a push gas lawnmower at the "garbage curb" once. The thing looked like BRAND NEW, but it was missing it's wheels and throttle cable.

So I get it home and all it needed to start easily and run like a swiss watch was a carb cleaning. Well, then I had to scrounge wheels and a cable, but they did turn up for free.

I'm out there mowing my yard and the previous owner (from right down the block) is out for a walk and man is that guy eyeballing me and my nice new mower! LMAO

I felt like asking him if he was enjoying his wheels and cable, but I didn't.

In life's wilderness,
Choked by the weeds of error -
Bloom of beauty: truth.

Truth ...

“Is the opposite of lies.”
“What is truth but what we believe to be truth?”
“I don't believe that there's one truth. There are so many different people, and there are so many different ways you can look at things. I don't see how there could be just one truth.”

Haiku...

Frank - Got a snowblower like that b/c the "transmission was bad". Adjusted the drive linkage, and it works fine now. Literally, pull cotter pin, twist threaded rod, push cotter pin back in, starts right up, still has gas in it, fresh oil change, (apparently, that was a diagnostic procedure... :rolleyes:), and now it works fine, too. Gave it to my Wife's Father.

But again, that's not mooching. Mooching is when you show up at your friend's house around dinner time, getting him to make twice as much food as he otherwise would. In other words, he's working harder in order to feed you, while you get fed without the bother of working.

my last gas snowblower was from the curb down the street . Just needed a $2 V belt and an improvised chute crank. I threw some rattlecan black on it too just cuz I didn't want it recognized :)

I don't look down on the dude for living in a cave - as long as he keeps himself clean and doesn't steal... but why not also have a job?

I can't imagine how quickly my bank account would go up if i worked 9-5 and went home to a cave.

My girlfriend is a waster. She grew up in a family of wasters. Sometimes i see veggies in a plastic bag in the garbage - so i take them out, wash them, chop them up and serve them for dinner only to hear compliments on it :)

If i saw someone idling their SUV while eating dinner, I would go and tell them under the guise that i'm looking out for them. "excuse me everybody, someone has left their SUV idling"... no guilt trip, no offense. If they then told me "i'm keeping it cool for when my fat ass is done gorging on half of this meal" i'd tell them they are a prick and be on my way.

Noone makes the mistake of leaving their vehicle idle while eating. It's blatant disregard.

My Wife doesn't waste as much as many others, but she also doesn't understand that there are viable alternatives to many of the things that she likes, most of which taste/perform/function better, use less packaging, and are healthier for you. I'm working on this.

I agree with you 100% I drew a mans wages at 11 driving a tractor I am responsible for growing fruit and vegetables that fed millions. I have a right to EAT! Dumpster diving can be so much fun I was introduced to it as a teen when a friend and I were invited to a party we didn't have any money or gift we went behind a store and found a fifty pound bag of onions we threw away about five onions that were bad. They liked the present and I'll bet they used them. We have something called spring cleaning hear where anything big you want to put out the county will pick up. Wow wood stoves, bbqs, fishing tackle, lab equipment, bikes, campers, furniture, I even picked up a zodiac raft I figured it ripped or something I could repair it. When I inflated it, it was good as new! One lady was putting a new bike to the curb my friend pulled up asked her what was the matter with it, she said my husband rode it once it's got a flat. It was just low on air. You could build and furnish a house with what gets thrown away here. People also tear down houses during this time so doors, windows, plumbing, wiring, everything a house is made out of, or furnished with is on the curb. I built so many things out of it, all free. Of course I aquired quite a junk pile when I finally put it on the curb someone else picked it up in less than an hour.:D

I know of a few people in different areas that go around picking up free "damaged" things, fixing them, like reupholstering furniture (with recycled materials, usually from other projects), and then sells them at store front.

The only thing about these guys that isn't legal, is that they all reside inside their stores, which aren't zoned for residential use. They haven't been bothered about that, they usually only get bothered when a "new" customer recognizes something they threw out, and throws a fit about him selling "garbage".

I have looked at a lot of the abandoned store and industrial buildings I never bought one but you could make a great living space because the cost is very small per foot some down to a dollar or two. A friend built a shop and put his home on the second floor I guess it's common some places it sure is cost effective and the commute to work :D

All depends on the zoning as to whether you can legally do that or not. I'd love to do it, since I think most old warehouses have a certain character to them. And giant masonry buildings kinda lend themselves to green remodeling, as well.

Can you direct them to me? I have things I want to sell to them. ;)

You scavengers and dumpster divers need to be careful about what foods you salvage. I worked a career with the FDA, and was responsible for many companies throwing away thousands of pounds of adulterated food. Sometimes it contained rodent excreta, or live insect larvae, or was contaminated with (invisible) bacteria. Other times some of the cans were exploding, or the product contained a cancer-causing illegal color additive. I always recommended they render it unfit for use as food, by pouring oil or soap onto it, to protect you scavengers. But these were voluntary actions on their part (to keep me from recommending legal action against them), so I couldn't tell them what to do with their product. When you eat someone's discarded food, you always run the risk of eating something that's unfit for food.

It's just like fixing a car; you inspect what you have to work with and utilize what's still good instead of just throwing new materials at it.

I used to have a source for bags and bags of Doritos. But I guess they figured that someone utilizing their DISCARDED out-of-date product was cutting into sales so they started OPENING the previously un-opened product and pouring soap water into it. Eh holes. The scavenging wasn't affecting their sales one iota.

i hate that too

i used to deliver donuts by truck. instead of giving them away, my manager used to toss TRAYS (up to 10) of day-olds in the trash. i wanted to give them to a shelter but she used words like "freshness" and "liability" :(
plus i dont really eat donuts :o