The guys over at eco-modder are crazy
 

OK, I'm stretching the intent of this "Success Stories" sub-forum a bit with this, but check out this comment posted at AutoblogGreen about Coyote X's plug-in hybrid Metro project:

That was posted by an ABG reader "PabloKoh".

Not sure if PabloKoh is a member here under some other name, but when I read that I thought, "if that's how people who are interested in automotive efficiency view EcoModder, I deem it to be a complete and total success!"

EM rocks. :thumbup: And by EM, I mean: the community of ecomodders participating here.

That is very cool. Definitely a success story Darin.

MetroMPG -

Crazy? CRAZY LIKE A BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!

2WSolraC

Ha! :D A box of what?

Well somebody's got to do it. Might as well be us.
The crazies are the ones who change public opinion, and the course of history. Stay with it everyone, we are on the path of righteousness!

Spread the EM word, tell a friend.

Thats great to hear, finally everyone on here it getting some recognition for their work.

MetroMPG -

LIKE A BOX OF BIZARRO CHOCOLATES!!!!!!!!!!

2WSolraC

I saw that one too :p. You guys are getting the job done.
I share some of the projects with other forums I visit.
I loaded Basjoo's website on the primary laptop to show off the Aerocivic to my family. Being known as a Dork around here means I can talk about and work on this stuff without being sent to the funny farm :D.

Keep up the good work :thumbup:.

I was pumped to get a card in the mail last week from the dealer at Toyota that sold me my Prius. It said "Thanks for choosing Ira Toyota to purchase your car. And thanks for all the great hypermiling tips!"

Sooner or later the EM message will be in the ears of everyone...what they do with it is up to them!

I have my mileage tag in my sig on other forums where it doesn't violate the TOS for them... people often ask about it in PM, to save face. (Several of them are performance oriented, and talk of "fuel mileage" just won't be tolerated publicly.)

Matt: that's a great anecdote.

Christ: that's basically the back story of why GasSavers got started - a couple of people on an otherwise performance-oriented site where talking about fuel economy just wouldn't have worked out for a number of reasons.

Keep up the good work

Haha. When I introduced myself at clubprotege.com, they sort of ganged up on me and criticized me for caring about MPG. When I mentioned my grill block, a clubprotege member told me that he cuts out _extra_ holes in his front end to maximize cooling. I'm not personally offended; I just think it's funny.

I don't mind if people improve the performance of their cars, but the Protege is a friggin economy car. Getting good fuel economy and being cheap to own is a primary focus of the economy car class. If you want a sports car, buy a Miata.

The Protege isn't actually an economy car anywhere but America... In Japan, it's still too large and fast to be considered an econo-box. The car comes with a BP-series 1.8 turbo engine in Japan.

The Ford Escort was pretty much only an economy car in America too...

I thought this would be sort of on topic here. I was brought to Ecomodder when someone posted a link to Basjoos' build thread in the lounge at LS1Tech.com, which is a late model GM muscle car site. The overall response of most people viewing the thread was not so friendly of course. I on the other hand took a look around and quickly decided to sign up. Here's a link to the thread on LS1Tech (put your flame suits on)

Maybe ricers just want better gas mileage? (Body guys stay out) - LS1TECH

I noticed that one guy in the thread actually seems to know what he's talking about. He even knew what a Kammback is.

<rant>I have to laugh at all the comments from the morons on that site that don't know a damn thing. "I drive fast, I don't care if it costs me $80/tank to fill up vroom vrooooom", guys like that are what makes me wish gas had stayed high. I like going fast too, I used to own a cadillac with a beastly v8, but I got tired of spending upwards of $60/tank back when katrina hit, my civic is still plenty quick but gets better then twice the mileage of the caddie.

I fully intend to own a vette from the 60's at some point, but it won't be a daily driver. Gah, I hate ignorance.

</rant>

Those who want speed and those who want economy should both be concerned about improved aerodynamics. At least there's some common ground to stand on.

I grew up into good fuel economy thanks to a little 83 nissan sentra. I would reset the tripometer when I refueled, mainly out of curiosity. I also always filled up ("the top half of the tank is just as easy to keep full as the bottom half" my dad would say)

Anyways, that car had *COLD* ac, power steering, and was comfortable, and it had a 5 speed. So when I noticed I got exactly 100 miles per quarter tank, it became facinating. The empty mark was actually at the 1/8 tank position, so at 350 miles, it would read empty. I was so excited on one day when I was easy on the gas for a while, and I hit 400 miles and still had gas left. Always trying for those couple extra miles on the 1/4 tank mark was my education. And this was when gas was $1.29!

Blame my Scottish ancestry, but saving a buck when there's no reason not to is imbedded in me.

I'm figure everyone here is pretty cheap at least in some form or another. :P

Why waste your money on everything when you can cheap out on everything but what you love?

This is a high performance site, the standard by which it is messured is mpg... Not HP or seconds or mph. mpg is the more difficult standard to meet, You can't just buy it and bolt it on, you have to design it and build it your self with a bit of help form your friends at EM. I used to think that expensive sports cars where example of great design but now I think they are what you get if money spent is not considered, now my attitude is show me what you can do for $15000 and make it get 50mpg doing it. Now that would be an accumplishement!

:thumbup:

It's fantastic that a few people are coming around to that view - that high performance doesn't only mean POWAH!

I read the sentiment somewhere else recently - don't remember where (not here, but on more of a "traditional" performance site).

http://educatedstupid.com/media/ars/clarkson-power.jpg

We need something to counter this picture.

Like, doc brown jumping out of his insight (complete with mr fusion for fun), grabbing his scan gauge and screaming "88 miles per gallon!! What did I tell you!"

And yeah, most people just aren't interested in economy. Most people I know are amazed that their mid sized sedan can get 25 mpg.

Ohhh Clarkson... I actually did his POWER scream in my head when my tail swung out in a corner today, and I hit the gas, and turned the wheel lightly to the left (in my 130hp, FWD hatchback, no less). I felt so awesome drifting around that corner and ending up in my lane perfectly after wards.

If you want that, than you'll need to rev up Photoshop! I'll attempt it, but with my paint.net photo editing software, I really am not as able as if I had the glory of Photoshop.

+1, high MPG is definitely a form of high performance. As a car guy I love having two high performance cars, of two completely different standards of high performance. :cool:

we're not always lauded as innovative crazy cool idea peoples.
the amount of animosity Ive gotten at the ranger forums could be cut with a knife.

but at some point in time (hopefully soon) more people are going to have to get involved with increasing the FE of their vehicles and demanding car manufacturers offer better solutions than what we have now.

...I relish the thought: "...passing everything in sight--including--gas-stations!"

I see many people get it and some don't. After fully reading this thread I see and have experienced a bias from both High performance and Eco people. Going fast and high performance were always something that I loved to do for many years but I did it on the cheap and netted better perfomance than many who just opened their wallets wide.

Then I started comming here a place where I thought I could learn something and maybe improve my current vehicles efficiencey on the cheap. I have taken flak from members here and members on the High performance side I even was blasted on a full size GM truck site when inquiring about good road manner tires for my truck.

The online attitude that MANY people have just sucks. Ecomodding sites started because they had no place to go in other forums but a few people here do the same as the people they ran from.

So where do I go? do I continually get blasted for driving a big truck 6,000 miles a year by a hypermiller that drives 40,000 miles? I didn't even post my latest car purchase last Friday because I know it would get criticized.

Well I needed to rant after reading this i do appreciate the many great tips and helpfull members on this site that is why I stick around. I want to do my own EV project one day soon when life frees up the time and I continue to make small changes in my life to be more efficient. Working together with others will show much better results than drawing a line. Ask anyone on that LS1 forum if they want to learn how to make 500hp and get 30mpg they will line up for the opportunity.

a homemade $15000 high MPG car would be AWESOME!

I've often considered getting a newer more fuel efficient van; newer minivans trump my 21 mpg rather easily. Thing about it is, I already own it, if I get rid of it, it would be on the short list to be scrapped, and I would lose the chance to make it a fuel miser that it simply isn't right now. That, and it is a good vehicle, has been very dependable since I put in a newer motor, and I enjoy driving it. So I'll keep it.

I think many people see the SUV as the pinnacle of wastefulness and anyone with one as non Earth friendly. Maybe that is the reaction you're seeing.

Something else that occurs to me is maybe you also enjoy your particular vehicle despite its thirst. I have a 98 Max that I couldn't imagin not having. It has a GREAT midrange rumble during acceleration, is sublimely comfortable, and handles the twisties like no one's business. But for a mid sized sedan that we put over 20K miles on in less than a year (mainly because we LOVE driving it) it could get much better fuel economy.

But what is the point of getting great fuel economy if you dislike the vehicle? I have spent thousands of miles driving this car, and enjoyed most of them. How can that be wrong?

A cammed & supercharged 5.3 should do the trick ; ) Weight and drag play a role too to reach 30 mpg. Perhaps a set of heads (Vortec) might increase mpg and horsepower in that 95 Chevy truck?
VT247

It doesn't take much to get a LS1 to make alot of power with good MPG's.

My old tired 95' is still rocking the original TBI carb setup if I was to make a change I would swap on a TPI setup and gain 10mpg and 50+ HP making it more tuneable for both effiencey and perfomance(95 is still OBD1:(). I have plenty of parts to build her up but just not worth it Total cost for my truck including purchase price is running around $1200 -1300 I have to check my parts log.

Replacing a tire with a slow leak should get my MPG's back up. Overnight 1 tire falls from 40psi down to 12psi. I am driving slower and using tips I found in the forums and only lost a couple miles per gallon with the weather and gas change. :mad:

BTW: I do Love to watch the Trailblazer SS videos on youtube close to a 5,000lbs 4x4 doing 11's in the 1/4 mile and getting mid 20's for gas is frickin sweet.

Replaced a few leaks on my rides recently too. Used the old water bottle with soap trick to locate the leak. Fill up the tire, spray it down with soapy water and wait to see the bubbled areas. Used a simple plug kit.
My 1993 Suburban is horrible on gas. But it fits the family (4) nice for long trips. It's got the 350 TBI too. Bought it for $800 with a bad 4L60E tranny. Had a 700R4 sitting in the garage so I swapped it out and it bolted right up. Easily rigged up a detent cable to the throttle body. The speedometer doesn't work but my GPS does.
VT247

If you can get 1 mpg more than anyone else at a 500 mile NASCAR race you are going to have a huge advantadge! SUVs were originally designed to go off road to the favorite fishing spots. Appropriate technology is about finding the right tool for the job. When I drove a '72 Cadillac hearse instead of a 3/4 ton truck, I had a 11 ft bed and got 13 mpg highway. Now I commute with a 36 mpg Geo Prizm. If I had the choice I would ride a bike to the bus stop, put it on the bus, and ride in the next city.

I own an Explorer (currently out of commision :( ) but its usefulness with the 4wd and it being a overgrown station wagon made it a lot of fun to own, EXCEPT for the hellacious thirst.

I could junk the thing; it needs a tranny, and the engine is likely shot. But I can't replace it with a similar vehicle with less of a thirst. So I'm planning to make a FrankenExplorer, by putting a turbocharged diesel out of a Jetta, or Golf, or what ever I can find around the 2.0L area, and designate it as the less than 55 mph and more than 20 mpg explorer. Sure it will be down on power, but not by much. The 4L v6 it had was rated at around 146 hp, 180 ft lbs torque, and that is well within the possibilities of a 2L diesel. It will be bit of a challenge, but with me learning how to build precision drilling fixtures at an aluminum die cast plant comes the knowledge to marry an efficient VW diesel to a brick of an American icon for fuel wastefulness. And at the same time I'll fulfill the christmas wish of one of my daughters.

When the explorer was running, we'd go wandering the dirt roads that surround us here, playing in the snow and mud, as well as going camping in a rather rustic campsite. A combination of the truck going out and us being a bit too busy for our own good made my daughter ask Santa for the tools to fix the "truck" so we could go camping again.

Some things suddenly become much more important when your daughter innocently asks you for such a thing.

ShadeTreeMech: You might want to think about a Cummins if you want to go diesel. The 4BT (3.9L) out of the bread trucks is real popular, and all the work has been done since I've seen them in rangers before. I've also heard of them getting low 30's highway on lifted pickups.

It's my back up plan whenever the K5 finally dies.

You must be thinking about this picture.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-sh...explorer3.htmlFuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - ShadeTreeMech's Album: stuff - Picture

That picture was my desktop for over a year, and I thought long and hard about putting one in. I am actually a forum member at 4btswaps.com and was long before I joined here.

Problem is, the 4bt is rather low in the sophistication, and weighs in at over 700 lbs. Fitting it in the Explorer is entirely possible, but for the engine you get I'm not sure it's worth it. Stock, the 4bt is rated at 105 hp and 200+ ft lb torque. The max rpm is 2800, but with the governor spring swap it can do up to 3200 rpm.

The 4bta nets 130 hp and about 250 ft lbs torque. With a few mods you can get a bit higher, but then I came across this YJ with a 3.3 QSB

http://ecomodder.com/forum/member-sh...ource-com.htmlFuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com - ShadeTreeMech's Album: stuff - Picture

The specs on this smaller engine is similar to the 4bt, but is 200 lbs lighter. Then I looked deeper and realized the power available in the smaller diesels is rather impressive. So while I'm not yet decided on which engine I want, I know I want one smaller than the 3.9.

I would second that idea. A 2.0 might hurt the vehicle's usefulness.

What year is the Explorer? I don't know how your state is but in MA engine swaps can be tricky because the car has to pass a plug in test if it's OBDII and the machine has to see the correct VIN in the computer.

I sometimes drive a 2002 Explorer at work. It has a 4.0 V6 also, but makes more power than the figures listed above. I got it just shy of 23 mpg under nearly ideal conditions, mixed driving was around 17-18 mpg. 5 speed auto, automatic 4WD.

no nno no........CRAZY LIKE OUTSIDE THE BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 4.0 V6 in the explorer isn't exactly a high power engine, so matching it with a diesel is easy enough. A 4bt is a known good swap, and still gets great mpg, particularly on the highway. I could definitely see 30+ mpg highway out of a diesel explorer (even a 4bt), especially if I managed to break 20 with a 5.9 liter gasser in my Jeep.

On many of the plus sides, it's a 91 (no obd II) we don't have vehicle inspections, and it's not an urgent matter getting it fixed. I realize lowering the amount of available power would have downsides, but I don't require much, since it would be mainly intended for its off road ability, and when you're in low range, horsepower isn't something you have to have. So long as I can get up to 55 and maintain it for the most part on the highway I'll be fine.

looking over the ebay listings is somewhat discouraging. Even a cheap diesel engine is around 2k and generally requires a bit of work. A good rebuilt 4bt is around 7k, and at these prices it makes one wonder whether simply replacing/rebuilding the 4L v-6 wouldn't be more cost effective. Or even just a more sophisticated v-6, such as the OHC v-6 available in later models of the explorer.

It's a shame diesels in the US are fairly rare.