Help me choose a motorcycle
 

This will be my first bike, will use it mostly for riding around town but my dad likes to do trips on his so if/when I get one it would be nice to have something comfortable enough for long rides as well. I like riding trails too, so significant bonus for dual-sport capable. I would rather it not look like a dirt bike though. And as you might guess by the fact that I'm posting it here, cheap and fuel efficient are priorities as well.

Looking through stuff online the v-strom kind of jumped out as far as doing the type of things that I want, but the smallest they make is a 650. What are some models I could look at that might be similar but maybe in the 250-400 size?

Very open to other options as well, anything you think might fit my description.

Suzuki and Kawasaki make great dual sports, 650s, and 250s. If you want to go into the 80s and 90s, try a Kawasaki KDX 200 or 220.

All fun bikes, all street legal- just don't try to break any speed records.

Thanks. After looking at these though,the DR-Z, KLX and KDX all seem like dirt bikes that can go on the road where I'm more looking for a road bike that can go on the trails.

Is there anything along those lines?

Go back to the 1970's and get a Honda CL200 or CL350, they are not dirt bikes but are more the road bike of the time with dual sport tires, higher exhaust and higher suspension.
Road bikes don't hold up well going off road and off road bikes are not good on the highway for long trips because the ridding position is not the same.

A lot of the off road and trial bikes will work fine for short commuting in town because you are sitting more upright, like the Honda CFR250.

You should have a look at a used BMW F650GS single too. It's 650cc, but it's definitely smaller than a V-Strom, and it's still pretty comfortable. FE-wise it's more like a 250 than a 600+. If you happen to be tall, the Dakar version is for you.

New models are called G650GS and Sertao - but they're not as cheap as the older ones.

Yeah those both seem like they're heading in the direction I was thinking. However, the CLs seem like they're running $3000 in my area which seems awfully steep for a 40 year old entry level bike.

The old F650 I actually found for 3400, but a little far from me. The new ones are expensive of course.

Would prefer something cheap for my first one. Black Magic was only $2500.

Used Ninja 250.

Ninja250 Riders Club :: Index

Kawasaki Ninja Forum

or a used CBR250R

Honda CBR250R Forum : Honda CBR 250 Forums

A mid-size enduro is also a good choice.

Read the forums for a while. You'll see there are lots of new and experienced riders that use 250s for all types of riding - from track days to sport touring.

A 650 is too big (EDIT: and heavy) for most to learn on - especially a VStrom. I ride a SV 650, and feel that it's not a good beginner bike either.

Starting your riding career on a small cycle like a 250 is the best idea IMO. Take a MSF or similar riding course before hitting the streets. Buy a complete set of good quality gear and wear it every time.


Jay

When I was learning my main concern wasn't engine capacity (but it was, because their fuel consumption), but height and weight. And I still agree with my past self that you should choose a bike you can flat foot from (at 5'9" it rules out many dual sports for me). This is why I mentioned the F650GS (and because I know it's capable of a decent FE).

A 'strom really feels like a mother ship, though :D The 650 is not too heavy, not very tall, but it's still BIG.

But I have nothing against 250s - if they meet the first criterion. They won't probably fail at handling and weight :)

I've ridden a crf 150, dr 200, and klr 650 all a fair bit. I feel perfectly comfortable with all of them on the road, the klr I'm a little more cautious with on the trails because it's harder to just stick out a foot and catch yourself. I think it's too tall to flat foot even for me, and I'm just over 6 feet. I think I'd be really comfortable with something just a tiny bit smaller/lighter than that. I believe the v-strom is nearly identical? So I think I'd be fine with it, I'd just prefer something a little lighter/cheaper.

The closest match to that so far seems to be the old CLs, but as I said they seem a little pricey for what you're getting at least on craigslist in my area.

In light of that I guess I might go with the ninja or cbr 250 since I at least know I can get one at a decent price and it would also be a good hypermiling platform. Not really putting much stock in their long trip comfort, and I'd be missing trail going ability but maybe just something cheap to ride while I figure out what I really want would be good too.

Look at the Honda NX125 and NX250. They are more street oriented dual sports. Much newer than the CLs. I have the NX125, it goes 65MPH and gets 80MPG riding as hard as you can. or over 100MPG going easy on the throttle.

After 1400 miles and just under 92 MPG average I would consider the Suzuki TU250X. Classic style, light, top speed close to 80 mph, and I am 6 feet tall and a little over 200 pounds.

regards
Mech

Interesting you should mention the NX125.

justjohn - what area of WI are you in? Right now there's a NX125 listed on Craigslist in Janesville for $1200. Might run out of steam at high speeds, but around town or on the dirt it would be fun. I rode a XR250R on the street for a while back-in-the-day, and it did OK for the most part (a bit rough on the hwy with knobbies though...).


Jay
(outside Madison)

Im in California! The transmission is wider ratio than the XR or XLs and it also has electric start. I put Avon distanzias on mine and it grips the road really well.

KDX200 & 220's aren't street legal factory, also 2 strokes so not too FE. but can be found pretty inexpensive. I bought a KLR650 in 2000's getting back into bikes, went thru 5-6 others, now just a KDX200. Next bike would be a another KLR650 or KLX250 (probably 650, , but KlX250 would be great first bike or older KLR250 (no electric start).

I'm 6'4 and I believe that's the perfect height to flat foot the KLR!

If fuel economy is one of your main goals then forget the KLR650. At 70mph I average about 47mpg. If I keep my speed below 60 I can get a little better. My bike is 100% stock.

The KLR does everything well, dirt, street, long distance, a-b or cross country. But it's not outstanding at anything.

There are many many other bikes that can do individual things outstandingly well but it won't compare to the Jack-of-all-Trades KLR650!!! :D

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...0617-00239.jpg

Having had a NX 125 for a year, I wouldn't recommend it.
It is very slow hence dangerous.

The NX250 on the other hand is a must have in the 250 category (in my book)
Proper braking, 6 speed, 100 mph able, very good reports in FE and its trail position is good for beginner and in town driving.

250 is the best size engine wise for me.
Enough power, proper FE and not too heavy.

Wow, getting lots of input, thanks!

Yes, I would like something that can cruise at 65 so the 125 probably wouldn't do it for me. Unfortunately I don't see any of the 250 in my area.


Edit: What about your GN 250? Found one of those in driving range.

Suzuki has made a 400cc dual sport bike for several years. There are scads of after-market parts for them as well. 400cc is a GREAT cost/weight/performance compromise.

If you're referring to the dr series I believe those are more in the category of roadable dirt bikes where I'm looking for a road bike with a preference for one that can handle trails.

Those are just the bikes I am referring to. Are you familar with Supermotard? The bikes lend themselves to that nicely.

Generally, dirt bikes handle much better on pavement than pavement bikes do in the dirt. I've raced (and raced against) MXers and dirt trackers in club roadraces and they usually work pretty well, once you sort out appropriate brakes and rim sizes.

cheers,
Michael

But here's the thing. I'm not doing supermotard, I'm riding on the streets and it would be a nice bonus if I could ride on trails as well.

I think you are missing my point. A dirt bike put on pavement is going to do much better than a pavement bike put on the dirt. Sure, you can take a Gold Wing on a wide/smooth dirt road, but you probably won't enjoy it that much. Instead, put dual-sport tires on a dirt-oriented bike and gear it up enough so it isn't laboring at highway speeds. You'll have a much happier time in the dirt that way. If your one bike is going to run dual-sport tires the dirt bike is going to be a better "all arounder" than the street bike.

Street bikes are probably going to be heavier, wider, have inadequate ground clearance, inadequate suspension travel and wheel-rates, too much front-end weight bias, poor foot and bar positions and possibly a lot more expensive stuff that gets broken when (not if) you fall down.

You might look at something like a DR350 Suzuki. That's an early 1990s model, but it was an aircooled single and pretty popular and reliable. I've seen them in full dual sport trim and I've also seen one that was fitted out with GS500 wheels/brakes and run on the street. It will have enough power to do freeway speeds.

Here's a couple for sale for around $2K.

1991 Suzuki DR350S STREET LEGAL
Suzuki DR350 dual sport

Or consider an XL500/600 or XT500/600 if you want something bigger for higher sustained freeway speeds.

The dirt bike can handle well on both pavement and dirt. The street bike is unlikely to be terribly happy in the dirt, or at least that should be true for what I've seen of modern street bikes. You should see about borrowing someone's street bike and try to ride it on trails, things should become a lot clearer after that.

But you should be prepared to fix the crash damage. :)

cheers,
Michael

I think I actually did get the point, but it's definitely clear now. I was making the counterpoint that I would be doing almost exclusively road riding. Given how emphatic you are about it though, it makes me think that I'm probably better off abandoning that idea altogether and getting a cbr 250 or something like that.

Edit:
I do love the dr200 and concede that a dr 350 would make perfect sense if I were doing any sort of regular trail riding.

Riding trails, just mild ones and gravel dirt roads is a huge bonus IMO when learning. Since I don't know your phyical size & strenght a 250 dual sport DR250se xt250 (225's kind of weak for freeway speeds) XL250's haven't been made in a long time, or KLR250 are great bikes, if pretty athletic agile I don't think you'll have a problem with the 650's. Each one has it's advanatage.

KLR650 6.1 gallon fuel tank, water cooled, put 20,000 mile on mine and run like day I bought it. Little heavy for hard core dirt, but I road it with my oldest on her xr50 just fine, best HWY dual sport, poorest dirt bike, heaviest. Not hard to empty the tank without stopping.

DR650s air cooled, lowest seat height, smaller tank, soft sprung, soft seat, middle of the road 50%dirt 50% street 650 dual sport about 3 gallon tank so half range of Kaw.

Honda XR650l, highest seat height, air cooled, most dirt bike to come with lights of the 3, just my opinion, but seems to be some people have problems with them coming from factory a little lean, 3 gallon tank, can get aftermarket big tanks, but if what a big tank buy a KLR.

KLR has been same basic bike since 1987, xr650l about 1993 or 1985ish, dr probalby about the same. All tried and test designs.

Check out the Versys, cool bike, same engine ast Ninja 650 but better suited, Weestrom (dl650) is nice, a guy just up the road and his son road their 650 & 1000 to Alaska and back.

KLR650's can be lowered cheaply I have a 5'9 friend that has one 2" lowered and likes it enough he's thinking about selling his ST1100.

You can think of me as a relatively tall skinny ninja. It's a lot closer to the truth than you'd be likely to believe.

Yeah, this is the type of thing I was thinking when I said a road bike that can be taken on trails. I like my Dad's KLR650 quite a bit, but it's a little more bike than I need and I'd like a little cheaper and better mileage.

That's why I was hoping they made something like that in a 250-400 size, but unfortunately they don't seem to exist.

It's better to have a little more bike then you need.

And the cbr250/600 is just too small for my frame. Same with most small displacement bikes.

Hahah, you guys are making this so difficult. Although, I've ridden a new cbr and don't remember feeling terribly crunched. It was only a short while though, so no idea how it would be for long term comfort.

I ride and commute with a 2009 KLX250s. It's a fine bike but a fuel hog. 55 mpg is normal for my 8 miles each way commute.

I still have my old 79 CM185T... put 12000ish kms on that bike in 4 years... It's smaller then a cbr125 and my stepmom (who's 5'2) can flatfoot while seated...

In theory I could cruise at 65mph... with a tailwind... downhill...

I suppose I looked pretty weird going down the road... hitting your knee with the handlebars was always annoying...

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...Picture624.jpg

Hahah, nice.

Starting to put offers out on possible options but blue book etc seem to suck for motorcycles so it's hard to know what to offer.

2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250r make offer! $1300 you think?

The EX250 is a lot of fun to ride (both on the street and track). But at 6' tall I found the seat to be too low on the street. With knees high it rotated my butt back so I was sitting on the points of the pelvis, which led to the dreaded squirming after about 20 minutes. If I'd kept it on the street I planned to try and reupholster the seat to make it about 3-4" taller so I'd be less "knees high - bottom low" on it.

Other than that if you could pick up that 2005 for $1300 that would probably be a good deal for you. The EX is plenty fast enough as a solo bike to keep up with traffic.


I had the thought earlier today that I probably should have asked you for your definition of trail riding before offering my opinion. If you were talking about packed/smooth/dry dirt roads, then most any street bike should do fine there even with street tires. Once conditions get much more technical than that you'll need to ratchet up the "dirt" capabilities, and keep ratcheting upwards as the trail gets more rugged. Light weight and good ground clearance will get you in and out of places (even with a mild 100cc engine) that you aren't going to want to get into with a bike designed as a "pure" street bike. Sure, people used to ride their 500/650 Triumphs in the dirt, but once the lightweight 2T bikes showed up there was many a big bike that was humbled by a trailbike.

Don't take anything offroad that you can't drag back up out of a ditch to the trail you used to be on. :) Or something that is so heavy you can't drag yourself out from under it without help (been almost there, I don't recommend it).

cheers,
Michael

The trails I'm thinking of range from easy to moderate I think. Would need to be able to get a tiny bit of air and not bottom out.

Dons Auto Truck Home Page

This place has some brand new "smoke damaged" bikes, 2012 TW200 for $2750, great RV bike, I almost bought one for my wife. But maybe they have a XT250, WR250 would be great fun but way expensive. DRZ400s sounds like the ideal choice for you though I prefer the Kaw green scheme that one year it was sold.

Edit:

http://www.usautolinks.com/cgi-bin/w...to_id%3D121961

Only list the one, but say you have to call to see what other ones they have.

Not seeing bikes on there.

Tires for a TW200 are expensive and difficult to find. And are not something you'll come across without ordering in advance, even at a Yamaha dealership.

Test rode a WR250 a few years ago (bike hasn't changed much since then). It retailed for over $7000. Fuel injected, keeps up on the highway, crosswinds will blow you everywhere. Decent FE. A little light to load up with bags and ride from state to state to state.

Also test rode a CBR1000RR.... that was fun.... they said it would do 165km/h in first gear, I got it to 140km/h (in first)... I'd own one if I though for a moment that I wouldn't hoon myself to death.

Still... KLR's make for a good long distance ride! :D

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/...0619-00278.jpg

Found a KLR250, shouldn't be that long of drive to go pick it up.

1997 KLR 250

Also a KLX250 super moto listed but $3900 quite a bit more $$.

The KLR 250 does look like it could be a good option for me. Two and a half hour drive and asking almost twice what the internet says it's worth though. Hmm. Probably worth a message anyway.

Price seems pretty reasonable to me, don't know mileage but if under 10,000 and starts fairly easy (kick start only) I'd be all over it, I'd trade my 04 KDX200 with for it even up in a second. Hmm, wonder if he'd want a KDX instead.

Edit: did little more searching for $13-1500 more just a few year old KLR650's can be bought.

http://waterloo.craigslist.org/mcy/3192567290.html

Another 250, newer and only 2250 miles, but $1000 more,

2 650's in Des Moines area for 2800 under 5,000 miles.


http://quadcities.craigslist.org/mcy/3257261163.html

I like that one best, be perfect if it had the dual star centerstand.