How to advance ignition timing on a '98 Civic for ecomodders
 

I read about advancing timing and talked about it with a retired diy dragster friend. Convinced it is worth a try, I researched it online, read the Honda service manual for my 1998 Civic, did the adjustment, and came up with this approach for a mechanically inexperienced ecomodder (like myself). The only thing that makes this post special to "ecomodders" is the fact ecomodders often have gauges that monitor the car's ECU (computer). My gauge gave confusingly factory ignition timing readings after the mod, so included here is how I resolved that confusion. Therefore, you'll be saved some hassle if you read all the way through this post before you attempt anything.

If I have made mistakes please correct me and I will edit this post so it is correct. Thanks to "cbaber" for this correction. I have edited the steps below.

Tools:
A ratchet
A socket extender (preferably a flexing or knuckle joint extender)
12mm socket
A timing light/gun
(see pic 1)
... you'll also need a metal paper clip (not in pic):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1307753993

Optionally, you might also like work gloves to protect against hot parts.

1) Warm the engine up until the fan comes and the engine runs at normal idle speed. (BTW, if you have installed an alternator cut-off switch, it seems to affect idle speed, so have the alt "on" when you want to set back to *stock* timing.)

2) While the car starts warming up, "jump" the ECU by inserting the paperclip into the 2P (meaning "two-pin") connector. You'll find the connector under the passenger side of the dashboard. It will have brown and possibly white wires running into it. It may be housed in a green rubber/plastic thing, see pic:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1307754041

3) Remove the blue 2P connector from the green holder and jump it, see pic: http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1307754055 If your check engine light comes on as a result of this procedure you have done it right. If the check engine light does not come on you have probably inserted the paperclip incorrectly. Do it again. This has to be correct because the ECU will undo any changes you make if you don't jump it.

4) After the car has fully warmed up to the point where the fan comes on, leave it running. You are ready to begin checking and adjusting the timing. Attach the timing light to the battery (red cable to positive and black cable to negative). Also attach the rectangular end to the number one spark plug wire. On Hondas the #1 is closest to the crank, on the driver's side of the engine. If your light has an arrow on its rectangular ended cable, attach it to the spark plug wire with the arrow pointing to the spark plugs. (see two following pics):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1343157129

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...6&d=1343157142

5) Loosen the distributor. There are three bolts that will take your 12mm socket. Loosen them just enough to put some play into the distributor, so it can twist forward and backward (see pic):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1307754257

For reference, here is a pic from the Honda Service Manual showing which way is "advance" and which way it "retard."

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1323798628

7) Turn on the light. If it creates a strobe effect, it is working, detecting each spark through the spark plug wire.

8) Find the timing belt pulley on the right side of the engine block. It is the largest pulley of the three or four you'll see. Find the small "V" shaped marker tab protruding from the block just above the pulley. Now find the thorn-shaped marker below it and find a way to see the thorn straight down through the V. The marker tabs are awkwardly placed beneath an engine mount on my car. Be patient. Clean the marks with carb cleaner, if you have it, to make them easier to read (see pic, but notice that I could not get a good angle for flash that would show the lower "thorn" tab too):

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...p;d=1307754367

For further reference, here is the pic from the Honda Service Manual:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...8&d=1323798645

9) Your patience may really be tested as you try to read the timing off the pulley because of the awkward placement. Keep trying angles. Point the light down at the pulley and the marker tabs. Small color-coded lines on the pulley will occasionally flicker through the lighted area as the pulley turns (if yours are hard to see clearly, stop the engine and spray them with some carb cleaner so the colors become brighter). There is a group of three close together and then a single white mark out on its own. The lone mark is for Top Dead Center. You are interested in the three that are clustered together. Factory timing will be in place when the red line in the middle of the three lines up with the tabs (it is about 12* BTDC on the 1998 Civic). You want to line-up to the mark to the left of factory (the marker nearest the front of the car). That is about a 2* advanced. Use carb cleaner and patience to improve the readability of the lines.

10) Advance the timing by taping the distributor TOWARD the passenger compartment. Moving it toward the front bumper will RETARD timing. Check the results with the timing light. You will know you have done it correctly when you line up your vision so you can see the thorn through the V and through the strobe of the timing light see the left mark lined up with it as it flickers through the lighted area. This was a pain given the awkward placement and dirt on the marks.

11) When you have your result carefully tighten the distributor. If you have loosened the distributor too much it might move and mess up the timing adjustment when you try to tighten it back down.

12) Take the paper clip out of the ECU port.

13) Check to see that your timing is where you want it ON THE PULLEY and not on your aftermarket gauge. My Ultra Gauge continued to show stock timing even after I have changed it because it continues to go off the ECU's assumptions. BTW, that's another reason not to greedily advance timing much: the ECU will increasingly be operating upon assumed parameters that you have deliberately made wrong).

Done.

Thanks, man. I had been pondering getting some Lindertech injectors and getting the car tuned. Anybody have any input / thoughts about knife-edge tuning with flow-matched injectors?

Thanks for posting a guide for our generation of Honda. :)

JMac

You're welcome. I also posted a link to the entire official service manual (free): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post238559

If you don't already have it, you might want to download and save on your computer. Heck, even if you have it, the PDF is convenient sometimes.

Nice work. Can you not put the pictures under each step?
- Aaron

Good suggestion. I figured out the simple steps for that.. did it... here it is.

Bump. I edited, added to, and clarified the original post here because I had to re-adjust my timing. I hope it helps folks...

Actually, the notion of the ECU undoing your changes is a myth, it couldn't possibly, it doesn't even know you have made any! The reason the car must be put in test engine mode is that it fixes the timing to a certain value, in normal mode the timing might be all over the place, making it impossible to adjust meaningfully with a light.

See?

Well, all I can tell you is what I experienced: if I reset the timing without jumping the ECU, the computer switched it back. If I recall properly, I just about watched the pulley move back to stock timing. But when I jumped the ECU before adjusting the timing, the Ultra Gauge showed still showed no change in timing at warm idle (12* BTDC), but the pulley showed the advance and it stayed advanced. I originally did this process back in May or June, so my memory of the ECU's adjustments might be flawed, but that's what I recall. It was quite frustrating until I figured out the importance of the jump.

knock sensor ?
 

Thanks for the caution. I appreciate it. It's important that people think carefully about whether they do anything to their ignition timing. But I'm not sure the situation is quite as simple as you are representing. I talked about this with guys who were experienced in it, and I read about it. I saw no reason to believe that two degrees is an automatic engine damaging move. But I have seen plausible discussions too that advancing timing will affect the torque curve by bringing it very modestly down the RPM scale. Even modestly more low-end torque is good for the P&G hypermiling technique in which I accelerate between 1700-2200 RPMs. It is one of a group of small things I do to produce the results I have. My DX does not have a knock sensor. But I have driven it for ten years, and I know thoroughly the sound and conditions under which it has occurred. I almost never hear it, and my 2* timing advance changed nothing about the ping/knock events (or lack of 'em).

Here's an interesting link for anyone wanting more detail about advancing the timing and torque and other issues: What Happens When the Timing Is Advanced

Regards,
james

It might have been resetting idle speed by adjusting timing, not resetting base timing. Idle should have initially increased a bit when you turned the distributor.

Most cars in the last couple of decades have automatic idle stabilization with more than enough control authority to keep the idle RPM steady with a small advance in ignition timing like that.

Generally cars are built with safety margins in just about everything important. Spark advance is such a thing--if a car does not have a knock sensor, the timing is almost always set such that even going uphill in Death Valley on a 110 degree day the car will not knock. Advancing the timing can cut into that margin, but under most driving conditions it won't matter.

If a car does have a knock sensor, chances are that it is set up to run much closer to the "ragged edge" where knock occurs. In that case adding static timing will mostly cause the knock sensor to retard the timing more than if it were in the stock position. Which basically gives you no effect from the mod.

I doubt that two degrees' advance will hurt anything in this case.

-soD

I know this thread is old but its important for potential DIY'ers to know that the #1 cylinder on Honda engines is the one farthest to the right (drivers side), not to the left near the distributor. I don't know if this effects setting your timing or not, but probably not since it seemed to work ok for you.

An old indian (Nothing racist intended) trick to allow you to see the mark on the timing belt pulley is to use white chalk on it and rub off the excess.
The mark is cut into the pulley so rubbing off the excess leaves only the cut full of chalk. Now its bright and easy to see with the timing light.

california98civic - do you have any small logger or scan gauge device able to measure engine knock? A widely used way to tune for gas mileage is to increase advance until knock then back off slightly, but then because you have no access to multiple tuning tables (VE, spark, throttle, pressure, airflow, rpm etc), you'd have to test for knock at WOT to be safe, then back off if it was knocking some at WOT (I thought all 1.6 civics of your year model had knock sensors). Short of that, a few degrees advance won't hurt anything (set back to stock for emissions time), unless it throws a code. If it throws a code after advancing the dizzy while driving, it's likely enriching the AFR and running in open loop (no fuel trims running off O2 sensors) then the adjustment was for nothing. Have you thought about a Hondata tune or do you already have one?

This depends on the vehicle, some vehicles with cam sensors run off spark maps in the ECU and no matter how much the dizzy is turned or what procedure is used, timing won't increase or decrease (it'll just be really out of tune with respect to the degreeing of the cam). Also some vehicles can adjust base/idle timing with the dizzy but won't affect engine under load, depends a lot on the vehicle/ECU/distributor. Honda's are pretty simple.

bad idea - no gains - misery to be had
 

....The risk in advancing the timing is that the flame front (the increase in pressure) from the burning air/fuel mix strikes the piston head before, at, or too close to TDC to create the optimum forward rotation of the crank.

If the downward force reaches the top of the piston before the piston is able to react with a downward motion then the force is directly to the crank, rather than to the rotation (a bit like how landing on a stiff leg transmits the jar to the hip). .....

from the link -
peak combustion pressure must happen at 14 degrees ATDC for best results
always
except at idle
except on start

if you tamper with base ignition timing - you change peak combustion pressure timing by the amount of your tampering
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5122/5...b75da5d2_b.jpg

there are already inconsistencies in peak combustion pressure timing events in non tampered with systems - if you move the average of those peaks back by advancing base ign timing some of those peaks will overlap
TDC

peak combustion pressure will happen before the piston has reached TDC
which is
bad

this is a very bad idea -

knock retard per cylinder graphed
 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/6...da9d95a1_b.jpg

this shows knock retard per cylinder in a VW Passat
Knock retard is the correction in ignition timing to prevent spark knock .
this system has so much ping that there is around 60kw of knock retard at 40% of calculated load
which on this system will peak around 95% - here it is much less

consider that the 4 cylinder vw engine in the jetta from that year has only 85kw maximum power output

why ?
customer is using poor quality 87 octane in an engine designed for 93octane and has been for some time , heavy carbon deposits from partial misfires have increased compression ratio in all cylinders
the car can not get out of it's own way ....

there are no DTCs and the "check money" light is off .

this is what a system that has knock correction will do if you advance base ignition timing beyond specification.
on a system without knock correction , results can be much worse

fix ?
solvents injected to clean carbon from combustion chambers and a tank of the correct top tier premium shell gas -
customer did not believe the difference this would cause ... until he felt it .

mwebb - if caly98 is only advancing 2 deg, nothings going to be hurt, especially if he drives for mileage, he'll never get anywhere near the peak combustion temps that kill engines. Ideally he'd go through some type of tuner that will only increase spark in a closed loop while cruising at a certain rpm range. But that's much more expensive than just turning the distributor

I have a scan tool that I bought for diagnostic purposes, and it offers some data my ultra gauge does not. But since I don't have a MAF sensor, I would not have that data on the tool either. By "spark" do you mean a timing advance readout or something else? Because the timing advance data would be inaccurate once I jump the system and start changing timing at the distributor.

I have thought about Hondata, and looked into it. My specific OBD2 ECU is not ideal for their services, though other 6th Gen Civic trim levels are (such as the EX). I wish I had a 2005+ HX. Its redesigned ECU is specifically cited as one that Hondata will tune for MPG if desired. That would be cool.

This would be true with a more aggressive advance, which I did not do, and with more aggressive driving, which I don't do. I advanced 2* and the car never crosses 2500/2600 RPMs. It will sit at lower cruise levels soon, when I switch-out the final drive gear for a VX 3.250:1 gear.

Lastly, I advanced the timing last May and have driven at least 10,000 miles since then. I'm fine.

Thanks for your concern and for offering your cautions to readers.

[EDIT: btw, I just remembered that one of your fixes I already do... I have been running 89 Octane for months.]

Yes by 'spark' I mean spark advance, most tuners have these tables it's what you may know as a 'low octane' or 'high octane' tune (all that's changed between those two tunes is the spark advance). Yes, honda's use speed density, tune by MAP sensor, I'm not very familiar with honda ECU's when did they go over to MAF or have they yet? Its actually very easy to tune speed density system if you had some type of software that would allow you to change the ignition spark while keeping your idle spark/idle circuit stock, which is the ideal situation. Sadly I see no spark map parameters on the hondata tech website, which I assume people are adding aftermarket ignition systems for boost retard or N/A advance at certain rpm? Like I say don't know too much about these honda ECU's.

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure your ECU is supported:
Applications By Vehicle
Though they may not send out a 'gas mileage' generic tuned ECU, you'd have to do it yourself. By the mid 2000's I'm sure they have spark advance maps available, but you never know with honda, it seems like if something works they don't change much for a few decades.

One feature that would greatly benefit your goal is the hondata fuel tables, you'd have to buy a hondata tuning system and a wideband O2 sensor (PLX about 150$ last I checked) and have access to a good laptop, this would allow you to really lean out your engine, or within a certain rpm range/throttle input etc. You can save different tunes on your computer or wherever, so if something doesn't work just modify or start over from stock tune. Leaning it out from its current 14-14.7 (assuming its in good running condition) to 15-16 AFR will net a few more mpg's, the trick is to lean out the AFR until just before the catalytic converter/narrowband O2 sensors tell the ECU to add more fuel so the cat doesn't burn up and gas mileage decrease from the ECU adding fuel. Harder to explain than it is in practice.

Technical Information
Tech - Wideband tuning

edit:
Civic 96-99 US D16Y P2P P72,P28,P30,P61,P08J,P30J,P72J s100/s200/s300 2,6,7

Civic 96-99 US D16_ P2E P74,P75,P06,PR4,P72,P28,P30,P61,P08J,P30J,P72J s100/s200/s300 2,6,7
2. Manual transmissions only.
6. OBDII to OBDI adapter harness required.
7. OBDI ECU swap.

- if yours is a manual, seems like you can use the hondata with an ECU swap and adapter, call hondata for details if you go that route

Very nice writeup - thanks!

I found a bracket near the timing marks that serves as a substitute "sight" marker, in line with the V-notch thing. You still need to eyeball it from several angles to see things line up but if you have a Gen 6 Civic you'll likely have the same bracket available.

You did a write up on how to advance timing but what advantages are there if you +2 on the ignition timing? I'm curious? Have you seen any improvements? Do you have any before/after data to prove?

It's a bit difficult to do good ABA testing with a mod like this, where the delay between runs and the cooling of the tires and drive train and changing ambient temps and wind would become big factors. But I thought it was associated with an mpg maybe. Felt the loss too when I went back to stock for emissions test. A 2 degree change is small, and therefore much safer. At most it will improve low rpm power very slightly, and assist pulse and glide driving technique more than typical light throttle acceleration. That's how I understood the mod. I might do it again this fall.

I had to pull timing on my 95 ex when changing the plugs, new plugs caused audible detonation. I set it at factory spec. My thought on the whole thing is that advancing timing can cause detonation, fix this by increased octane, does increased timing pay off in a % increase to cover the cost in fuel? As far as the jumper thing in Honda's the intention is the keep the computer from adjusting timing as the vehicle warms up and as rpm's change. Some on other sites say it isn't needed, but takes another 30 seconds to perform.

I would rather jump the harness and put it into service mode to make any adjustments. I was taught a certain way, Honda repair manual states the same as well, I'll stick to what I know. The only way I'll take anybodies word on car repairs is if they are willing to confirm that adjusting the timing without putting the ecu into service mode works. May be it does work on cars that don't have knock sensors or vtec but this is my ride, rather be on the safe side.