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how to help my matrix part 2 (front end)
After looking at the front end of my car:
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...GEDC0150-4.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...GEDC0158-1.jpg And looking at the aero civic's front end, I might want to do something similar. Ground rules: 1. Must be un doable. 2. Must not damage the stock bumper. 3. Should look somewhat well done (not bumpy, patched, or lots of screws). 4. Must have hood release access. I am looking for ideas on shape and mount points. Should I deflect air around the sides or top? If sides I might round out the front (curve in from the sides), have a flat bottom and slope the top down. How far out should I make it? |
...3-inch height garage-door seal as "spoiler" below the bumper.
...use pop-rivets and washers to mount unto existing facia/bumper material. |
I might do that, but I have a partial belly pan, so what will it gain me? Besides, the snow we get here makes the current belly pan act as a snow plow several times a winter.
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bump for some ideas please :)
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Time to resurrect this thread. What's the best front end shape?
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best
I'm not sure there's a 'best',as there is enough variation in front end designs with production vehicles that you've got to work with what you have.
From the available literature,the bulbous nose appears to best satisfy crosswind-averaged driving.Something like the Schlor Car,or this years Bochum University's Solar car.A perfect semicircle when viewed from above. You could try something radical with cardboard and masking tape and see if it 'showed'. The designers say that there is no magic radius or anything like that.Once you have attached flow,you're there.I can't imagine that the Matrix/Vibe front end would have any 'issues.' Projecting the nose forward would allow a nice minimum dimension,airtight, Korffesque radiator inlet duct. |
so if I understand this right, I need to make the front end a half circle (top view) and a smooth under side, and slope the top to match the hood?
Where would the best spot be for an air intake for the radiator? Where should I make a hole to let the air out of the engine bay? |
when looking at the aero civic it seems that the nose is not rounded much from side to side but from the top down. It Also seems that his is designed to send air up and over rather then any other way.
thoughts or recommendations before I start building? |
I think the Aero Civic uses those curves because of the restrictions of building with coroplast. It's very difficult to get complex curvature (bending two ways at once) with the materials we aeromodders typically use. You could surely make a Schlor-esque nose from fiberglass or even vacuum molding, but if it doesn't work that would be a lot of wasted effort.
In short, do whatever Phil did :) |
well I bought a roll of aluminum flashing to use as a building material. $35 for a 14" by 50 foot roll. I also have some wood I will bend into a curve to use as the frame, if I can find a good mount point.
At this point I am thinking of going flat from the underside of the engine belly pan to front of nose. then curving it up to match the hood and just below the lights. Some place I will put a grill opening that is ducted to the radiator. It will also be remotely operable :) How far out should the nose go? |
Just did a sketch but you seem to be a step ahead!
http://i49.tinypic.com/5etus8.jpg If you can, continue the curvature of the hood and headlight area. |
front
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*For bluff-body automotive forms a one-half convex-hemisphere would be ideal as from any angle it has the best 115-degree flow separation line. *On this nose there would be a single point which is the forward stagnation point.This is where the inlet would be located for maximum ram effect. *Where the air exits will have a lot to do with what's already under the hood. *Alberto Morelli probably spent the most time in the wind tunnel to scientifically position the engine bay cooling exits for his 1976-78 CNR 'banana' car.This car would be the benchmark for low drag cooling exits.Hucho shows a number of possible solutions as did Walter Korff.I would hesitate to position them on top of the hood for safety reasons.You could spend a thousand hours in a wind tunnel trying to dial this in. *The Matrix/Vibe already has VW's 'optimum' nose' as depicted in Hucho's book. *Where the nose curves back under would be considered a no-no,but could be addressed with a NASCAR type wrap-around airdam to limit air underneath,kicking it out to the sides instead .It might have to be 'active' or flexible to respect the SAE 'approach' angle clearance. *An airdam which was higher could also be used in conjunction with a Corvette/Trans Am 'bottom-breather' style inlet which would be just ahead of an underbody wrap-around airdam. *I'll let basjoos speak to the nose on AeroCivic. |
Sven7, nice sketch :)
aerohead: what do you mean that the Matrix has the ideal shape already? it looks like a brick. I get that the best spot for an air intake will be dead center before any upward angle starts. |
Well I started building a beta nose cone :)
Before: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...GEDC0153-4.jpg I started by doing something I had never done before, taking off the front bumper cover. http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-144.jpg then I started looking for good mount points. First place to look was the OEM locations (why re engineer if I do not have too). I found one that I can make use of: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-146.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-147.jpg then I found a second point that should work well as a bottom mount point: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-145.jpg The bolt is my mounting method (surplus tractor wheel weight bolt, that I just knew would be useful some day :) ). At first I was going to use a 2x4 chunk and screw it from the back side. this I did and found that it sagged too much :( then it was time to see if my board would make a nice round shape: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-149.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-148.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-150.jpg then I added a bottom support to hold the shape in the back: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-153.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-154.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-155.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-156.jpg Total forward projection 18". the plan is to use alum flashing to go from the round board to the top of the existing grill bock. then slope down to match the bottom of the headlights. there will also be some more fame made to support this flashing because it is so thin. My thought for hood release access is to make an open able small door right in front of the existing upper grill block, might use a thumb screw or key lock to hold it shut. At this point I do not plan on having the nose cone and hood touch, just gap it a small amount to prevent damage. Now what I need is a plan for controlling air flow to the radiator. I desire a method that is electricity remotely controlled. My old furnace grate trick might work if I can get some new ones the right size. the radiator is 25" wide so there is no need to be any wider then that though my old one was 32" wide with 78sq in of open area. My thought was to make a hole in the front board that was ~25" by 3 or 4 high. x out area: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-159.jpg the back side I plan to frame the opening for added strength and then use the same board type to make a duct wall back to the radiator edges (stopping 2-3 in away with the board and using foam for the rest to provide a crush zone). I might also use the boards to make the duct top. My actuators for the old grill block will move about 1/2 inch. Ideas? advice? |
ideal
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Hucho was one of the aerodynamicists doing the aero-optimizations of Georgio's design,commissioned by VW. Hucho found that just by radiusing Georgio's original nose,that they could essentially achieve the same low drag as with the 'ideal' nose. This nose dates at least to Paul Jaray's wind tunnel 'pumpkin seed' model of 1921,also investigated later by Lay,Fachsenfeld,Kamm,Prandtl,Schlor,Railton,Andrea u,Korff,Hibbs,Schenkel,...................... the list goes on forever. The only thing that would improve what you have,would be to maintain the downward curvature projecting forward,never letting it roll under.(think today's Chevrolet Cruze) or any NASCAR racer.Many ,many others doing it. You want the air to go around and over,not under,even if you have a perfect belly pan.Just as depicted in the 'Template' illustration. Pushing the nose forward would give you room for the Korff inlet and airtight ducting to the radiator,and low forward stagnation point.And all this would be good for high speed stability,as this is where Morelli ended up with CNR. With this nose mod the T-100 is getting 'boat tail' mpg without the boat tail. I hope to know soon what will happen when the tail goes back on. GM/Toyota has done a really good job with the Matrix/Vibe. |
Well the car is almost drivable, just need to let some stuff cure up and then attach it and I am ready to roll :)
I still am not sure how i want to make the new grill block:( so I left it closed in for now. (its just rebelling and deciding to be in winter mode) Here is what I got done before I grabbed my camera: (cow catcher look) http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-161.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-160.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-162.jpg I added the top of the air duct (there is a center baffle to allow for 1/2 air flow options) http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-163.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-164.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-166.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-167.jpg Can you spot the issue area? http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-169.jpg hint it has my first attempt to fix it covering it started adding flashing: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-170.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-171.jpg Here I used some leftover 24gauge steel for the harder to shape areas as I needed the holding strength. it was left over from the bell pan. http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-173.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-174.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-175.jpg Almost done, just have to make the removable section so I can open the hood. this is turning out to be harder then I was expecting it to be. its a complicated shape and bending sheet metal to fit well is almost imposable. I would have to use 10-12 screws to hold it down and sill it would not be nice ans smooth. http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-175.jpg I finally have the car on a almost flat spot and can measure the height off the ground, its about 8.5" http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-177.jpg Now to make the removable piece I decided that fiberglass might be the answer. I can form it into place then when its cured it will be thin, removable, strong, and hopefully smooth. I decided to first use alum foil to make a rough mold and then fill it with foam: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-178.jpg this will give the piece some depth to hold it in place and keep the fiberglass in the right shape. The fiberglass is now curing, then I can take it out and remove as much of the foil as I can. then some sanding and it "should pop right in". to hold it in I was thinking of getting a key lock and using that to prevent the piece from coming out unless I want it to. or i might just screw it down. other ideas? |
Well I took it for a dusk spin:
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-179.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-180.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-181.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-182.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-183.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-184.jpg At this point the gap sealer has to be removed to open the hood. I tried some hinges but I cannot get enough of an angle to have the hood clear the door/ gap filler/ removable chunk. It will open almost vertical but the depth and edge curves make it hit the hood. I could try to get it to open father but then I run the risk of having a gap between the nose cone and trap door. The hinges were kept as they make a nice attachment point to hold the piece onto the car. Test run showed no issues and a cold engine and drive train cost down test was just a bit longer then my old (no tail, belly pan and regular tires) test I did 2 years ago. This just tells me I did not screw up the areo that bad :) Now I can get to church tomorrow without having to bike :) I plan on looking for a good grill block after church. Send the ideas in :) they might trigger a workable plan. I am toying with just making an opening and calling it good but that seems like the cop out method. help me get something to work :) |
You weren't kidding when you said you were busy today:eek:.
I thought the nose was the grill block:confused:. Or is the bottom open? On mine(once it's running again) I'm going to reshape the front bumper so I don't have to leave cut outs for the ends where the blinkers are, remount the lights to the chin, fully enclose the front and duct some NACA openings underneath up to the radiator. Did that make sense? |
Good job. i love seeing new ideas and projects but (don't take this the wrong way) i would have a hard time driving around town with my car looking like that
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Hard time driving...try riding! :turtle: I ride in with him to church on Sundays, but my saving grace is that his passenger seat slides back enough for me to duck under the window sill level :))
(In case you haven't caught the connection, I'm one of his brothers.) P.S. If any of you want specific aero help I can give you the email of my aerodynamics professor and/or the aeronautical departments contact info. (I'm on the Aviation Council at Western Michigan University) |
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So I still need to figure out a way to get some air to the radiator, i just want to control when and how much :) what are NACA openings? GRU: I have gotten use to people looking at my car from the boat tail, this just adds spice to it :) |
First pic in this post has one.
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well I got to making a block able intake air opening. I decide to to reuse my old furnace vents, cut apart, and only usign one.
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-185.jpg before I started: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-186.jpg hole made: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-187.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-188.jpg inside the duct: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-189.jpg with the grate installed: http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-190.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-191.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-192.jpg http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-193.jpg At this point the project is "done" I might slowly work on smoothing spots but its fully usable :) ideas for paint skims? the all silver look is boring it needs some ascent. |
I just need a tong now :)
for winter I am planning on making a cover for the hole to keep snow out. |
In designing the nose for the aerocivic, the main thing I was trying to do was to lower the stagnation point in front of the car as low as possible to reduce the amount of air going under the car, to get rid of the flat front bumper section of the car that collected dead bugs and dirt, and to shape the nose as a continuation of the curve coming off the front of the hood. The car is wider than it is tall, so most of the air is diverted over the car rather than around the sides. There is some taper on the sides, but 80% of the taper is on the upper surface of the nose. I placed the radiator inlets below the stagnation point so when cooling air was needed, it would skim off some of the air that would otherwise go under the car. The radiator air is exhausted mostly into the front wheel wells.
Looking at the existing 06 Toyota Matrix's nose, I would block off the upper grill and build a rounded nose with integrated adjustable grill block around the lower grill area, extending the nose about a foot beyond the existing bumper with a low stagnation point, and continuing that curve that starts at the front of the hood over the upper grill area. Combine this with smooth underpanelling, air diverters on front of the wheels, side skirts, and wheel boattails to keep the airflow under the car going smoothly and straight. |
Naca
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They developed the' NACA submerged inlet' which offers a way to harvest air from outside a body and bring it in with very low drag. If you'll GOOGLE for it in the 'IMAGES' you should see a number of examples. I found the forward portion of some AUDI engine cover laying in the street in Denton.It has three NACA submerged inlets in it. |
gangway
I was thinking that you may want to construct a short,sturdy gangway which will clear the new nose while allowing you to stand or kneel above it 'close' to the front of the engine bay.
Even the short nose extension on the T-100 can cause hyper extension on my back and a gangway would help save yours for the times when you need to spend any length of time working there. |
accent graphics
How about tuft-testing with blue yarn,then 'paint' the yarn onto the nose afterwards.
Later, when people ask about those 'blue' lines,tell 'em that that they're actually white lines,and that they're just experiencing a 'blue-shift' from the Doppler-effect! You could paint red lines at the year. They'll 'hear' the colors as you race by!:D |
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I'd be proud to drive in it knowing that my two hands made it. |
thanks for the ideas!
I had to add another opening today, one was just not giving it enough air. I will try to post a pic tomorrow. My 14yr old sister calls it the platypus car :) She also wanted to make a tong for the car out of pink foam. I told her if she made it I would try it (get her started modding cars before she starts driving). I took it on the freeway today (3 miles) just to see what it would do. I can say I go to speed faster and held it without anything coming off. I got better MPG then I was expecting. holding between 65 and 70 MPH got me 45-51 MPG So I think that the belly pan and nose cone help more at speeds higher then I tend to go. I did notice a distinct lower air nose then before. |
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I didn't mention it out of courtesy . ( I was even going to post a picture ) I'm really surprised that the opening wasn't large enough. Bassjoos gets by with only the gap opening from his hood. Is there a blockage somewhere, because I personally have run my Civic blocked with less air than that. |
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When designing modified cooling systems, you need to lay it out so there is a pressure differential across the radiator when the car is moving. You need a higher pressure at the inlet combined with a lower pressure at the exhaust so air will move across the radiator when the inlet is open. In the aerocivic, there is the ram air pressure of the oncoming air at the inlet and the lower pressure is created by the squirrel cage blower effect of the rotating front wheels in the wheel wells (the underside of my engine compartment is completely paneled so nothing is exhausted there). If you are having problems moving the air across your radiator and you have the typical open bottomed engine compartment, you could add a small thin air dam strip just ahead of the engine compartment opening like the early 90's Chevrolet Camaro used to create a pressure differential across their radiator. |
Thanks Basjoos, the added hole worked just fine today, and I left the closeable half shut all day. When I was under the car yesterday I noticed that my furnace grate still had all its louvers in place and angled to both edges. I think I was just adding to much resistance to get enough air through it. I cut off the fins and just kept the open and closing parts :)
Also I have an belly pan under the engine (some air can get out the back but not much) so the air is forced out into the back half of the wheel wells. The first opening is 4x13" and the furnace grate is 3x13" the second hole I made is 4x 10.5". this gives me 42sq in always open (except in winter I plan on covering this hole) and another 40 or so that are operable. all in all its the same as I had before with my two grates in my lower grill. I am planning on making a metal cover for the second hole and using that once the summer heat is gone say mid sept-may. this will give me control of airflow for most of the year and only when I need more then one open I will take off the cover. |
Nice progress real fast! If you're going to 'glass it you might be better off creating a new mold out of styrofoam insulation or something, just to make it smoother. You could make a fishbone model and sandwich insulation between the "bones". Sculpt the extra until it resembles the shape, fill it and sand to a paintable surface, then glass it.
I'm getting ahead of myself. Anyway, what kind of MPG do you see going 50-55mph? |
[QUOTE=
I'm getting ahead of myself. Anyway, what kind of MPG do you see going 50-55mph?[/QUOTE] With or without tail wind:) Steady state driving: With a light tail wind I can get 54-58. No wind 52-56 light head wind 50-54 Adding the coasting I do from the given speed: light tail wind 1-1.3 miles of coasting (depending on wind speed) no wind 1-1.1 light head wind .8-1.0 my normal commute is made up of 19 miles of back roads (55MPH speed limit) and 3 miles of city (4 lane 40 MPH speed limit). On the way to work the city roads are empty and It only slightly hurts MPG. on the way home its busy and the traffic lights suck (three or 4 are blinking yellow on the way to work) but on the way home you are going to get 2 red no mater what you do and 3 or 4 is not uncommon. Half are sensor operated and no or short crosswalk signals, the rest are timed but the timing is a forced stop. After 18 months I have the cycle down and its a nasty section to do. |
here is the front pic with both holes as promised:
http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/file-194.jpg My sister made a tong piece but it is only for one hole, so its out of proportions, I need her to make a right size one then I will post a pic for comments :) |
I still have the modding bug, I am thinking about front wheel covers. I like the roller idea, might see if we have some surplus ones at work.
Two issues: rubbing, what have others found over time? Snow, has anyone done this mod and used it through several snowy up north winters? Whats the expected MPG gain from it with and without smooth wheel covers? Second idea/ question is side skirts, what do they do for you? I am unsure as to the aero gain verse snow drag/ build up. Ideas? |
I've been really thinking about that too. Possibly even before a boatail, i was gonna grill block, windshield wiper deflector and front wheel skirt.
I like the idea of a front hinged design. My biggest issue with top hinged is air getting in the front and not being completely sealed. Maybe it's a non issue? No air getting in the front, and the air moving past sealing the trailing edge to the car. The problem is clearance in a sharp turn. Top hinged is fine, but front hinged has the angle between hinge and wheel to sharp. Been designing several double hinged solutions. These are my ideas for the frame to be skinned in coroplast in a way that allows it to bend and curve around the frame. One is double hinged at the front like this: so it pushes the fairing at a parrelel angle outwards, while the front still deflects air around it. -----------ooooooooooooooooo ---------o------o------------- -------o------o-------------- oooooooo--------------- Second is hinged at the front double hinged at the middle: The middle section folds completely flat when the wheel is not turned, and when turned the middle section allows complete clearance of the rim. -------------------------------o----------------------------------------- ---------------------------o------o-------------------------------------- -----------------------o--------------o---------------------------------- -------------------o------o------o------o------------------------------ ----------------o-------------o-------------o-------------------------- -------------o----------------------------------oo------------------------------ ooooooo---------------------------------------- oooooo----------------------------------- |
When I build my Front Bumper, I'm going to increase the width of the bumper wide enough to cover the front wheel skirts to ease the transition of the air to the skirts because they inevitably stick out of the vehicle and if air can reach them more smoothly, I figured a higher benefit will be found. Maybe it's something you can integrate into your design since you're in the modding spirit.
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You're gonna have to re-name your car "Perry". :p
http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n...e_Platypus.png For front wheel skirts, you could use the white plastic cutting board material instead of rollers. It's tough, slick, and I bet it wouldn't abrade your tires much at all. |
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