Hydrogen Engine
 

I'm reading a bunch of websites about replacing the gasoline with hydrogen. Has anyone heard the buzz on this, is it simple to implement? It seems in a nutshell a glass of water being electrified with something catching the hydrogen and tunnelling it into the combustion chamber of an engine.

websites I'm visiting:

[links removed by admin]

I got a 72 el camino I could implement this in if it's dumb nif fied for me.

Oh absolutely, it's so simple I could do it in my sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

its so amazing that every single manufacturer hasn't caught on.

The only people who are seeing any benefit from them are the ones selling plans on how to build them, thing is that it's not hard to build, just like it's not hard to put dirt in your pockets, will dirt in your pockets make you rich? nope but it will make you feel like you have something in your pocket.
So far no one who has spent the time and money to install water electrolysis in there car has come back and said that it works and could prove that it improved mileage, proving that is improves mileage is simple, plug in a scan gauge and set it to give read time MPG read out (based of how long the injectors are open injecting gas in to the engine) then drive down the road with cruse control on, if your hydrogen setup really works then as soon as you turn it on you should see a bump up in mileage, or turn it off and see a drop, but so far no one has been able to do that.

To prove a mpg increase you'll have to break the laws of thermodynamics. Not gonna happen. The energy needed to make the hydrogen is far more than the energy you get from burning the hydrogen. Go figure...

Ever since the Hindenburg disaster hydrogen has been viewed unfavorably as a fuel.

A gas that is already being used in vehicles and has been for quite a long time is compressed natural gas. The technology has been proven safe, clean and efficient. Apparently the problem is not one of building vehicles that can utilize it; it's probably in building refueling stations that are idiot proof.

Unfortunately America has no shortage of idiots. :rolleyes:

Great, let's swap one non-renewable CO2 producing foreign fuel for another. We are currently importing LNG and it's not currently a widespread vehicle fuel.

I can think of 3 things that argue against the widespread use of hydrogen:
* You have to use energy to make and store/compress it.
* If you don't make your own, where you gonna get it, there is no distribution network, which would be massively expensive.
* It is very, very dangerous to handle... something like this:

BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expending Vapor Explosion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWjxr...eature=related

not to fight Hydrogen's corner, but don't we need massive, town-like refineries that guzzle energy to produce Gasoline??

Algae farms, algae diesel and carbon capture are the future!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, however it's a matter of degree. Manufacturing hydrogen wastes much more energy than a gasoline refinery, and the end product is not nearly as energy dense. It doesn't make sense to me to create a massive new infrastructure that results in wasting even more of the process inputs than before. It seems irresponsible.

hydrogen burns quicker than gas, the positive effect they see amounts to nothing more than you can achieve with full control of the timing/advance map. Pick any one of those heaps they're tried this on, megasquirt it for EFI, see even better results.

You will not break the LAWS OF THERMOdynamics
 

I have to correct you on the above statement. You will not have to break that law or even come close doing it. As you should know that water broken down has energy, and lots more the gasoline. When you break down the atoms and and implode it you get a great I MEAN GREAT source of energy that you can use to run the car. And its not that hard, You can use the existing fuel line that runs to the injectors. Keep pressure at small load 30 PSI and 50 on full run. with a v8 350HP truck for example. For that to work to you will need to retard the timming to get the injectors to shoot in enough fuel

You have to also crack it even more then just electrifying the water if you want to realease the huge amount of stored energy...

there not interested in catching on
 

Untill the auto companies and the oil companies can find away to make money on it .. won't happen massivly.. as there is vested intresest in CRap in efficient veihicles. Yeah they will slowly go up of there forced to..which they are. They can go 200mpg or more on gas alone if they wanted to. by the way. any car now Fuel injected or Carbed can get 200MPG if they really wanted to.

In order to convert water into hydrogen you need electricity. This energy would be taken from the alternator (50% efficient) which would make the engine work harder and reduce your MPGs.

You use 25% of the energy in gasoline to move you down the road so in order to make a 50mpg car get 200mpg you would need to use 100% of the energy in the fuel, as it is 75% of the energy is being turned in to heat, so you would end up with an engine that runs cold!
I've split water both in a jar and with what I believe was a Swiss built electrolyzer, it takes massive amounts of energy to split water and what you get out of it is not that great, hydrogen is also not a dense fuel, so it takes up alot of space and it just does not work.
If you have some new great idea that you think will work then you should go and make it a reality for your self, it will keep you out of trouble but you are going to have a hard time making breaking the laws of physics.

Hello? are we listening.. you will not be breaking the laws of Physics.
 

It is quite possible stop feeding into to the lies you are told or read about on hy_rog_n powered car. It does take great energy to split water but you need to understand Voltage and amperage and how to to make them work efficeintly to get what you want to split the Hyd_ _gen and water to make the fuel. you also to have to IMPLODE the atoms too. They hydrogen takes up space if you have no where for it to move or made on demand, which is what you need to do!.

Yes thats true if your using the amperage and a lot in order to split it.. even if you install un upgraded 200amp alt. But for what you put in the enine it would out weigh the Alternator lowering MPG on your car.

With all due respect, you are speaking nonsense.

No due respect needed.. I just said what I said the way I said it so i didnt have to get all techy with it.. So sorry if sounds like crap.. but it is all possible

If you are imploding hydrogen atoms, you must be talking about nuclear fusion. Like a hydrogen bomb.

regards
Mech

You can't just "create" energy from nothing. The more amps you are using from the alternator the more the engine has to work to generate the electricity. Also the electrolysis of water to hydrogen is only 50-80% efficient and most alternators peak at 60% efficiency.

Oooooohhhhhhhhh, that's what he meant by a HYDROGEN engine......

:rolleyes:

Cant create energy from nothing..that right BUT....
 

Your absolutly right on that and im not doing anything like that. As there is potential energy in the water molecule that you must extract and you can do it while having higher efficientcy You would be looking at 300% increase of energy released from the water molecule. You need to think of other current flow. But like I said if you think one sided like this with amps..you won't get what you want unless you have an on demand system to control the heat issue

Sorry for the missunderstanding, what is ment above is that you have to implode the water molecule in such a way that you release the potential energy by destroying the atom

Cold fusion? 300% increase? That's not nearly enough energy, you are off by six or seven orders of magnitude.

Sorry are we lost here, I'm not talking about Cold Fusion. Taking about something different with A water molecule in which excite it to a point where you break the atom a part and get the engergy to release to be used and you have your Hydrogen to use as fuel

Your spelling as well as your understanding of atoms and molecules seems to be somewhat lacking.

Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. Electrolysis separates the hydrogen from the oxygen.

A liter of hydrogen gas contains the same amount of energy as 1.5 wooden matches when they are lit.

The process of breaking down the water molecule into the three separate atoms that constitute the molecule consumes more energy than you can recover by igniting and recombining the three back into water. Even if you could break them down with no energy loss whatsoever (impossible) then the higher residual temperature of the water after your process was complete would mean you would not recover all of the heat energy of recombination.

Study Carnot's Laws of energy conversion and maybe you will understand why you are suggesting the impossible, like spinning a wheel on an axle and it would speed up instead of slowing down.

regards
Mech

You'll need an exhaust cooler and condensate pump to run at vapor pressure. Gains less that 14 psi, probably not worth the effort.

care to elaberate?

If it's possible then do it, prove us wrong, you will be famous.
If you can't do it, or can't give us other proof that it has been done then you are just making your self look foolish.

closed cycle steam engine

Nice im guessing your thinking of preventing vapor lock in the fuel line..?
Steerling engine...

Why not just sift out the tiniest hydrogen atoms and use those?

Thats what your doing with electrolysis and you have have bot atoms Hydrogen and Oxygen

Water - being a rather stable molecule - has a LOW energy state.

A lot of energy is set free when water is formed, generally as heat.
This means it also becomes rather hard (read : energy consuming) to split water into hydrogen and oxygen again.

In the real world you'd have to put in more energy than you can effectively get out again.

And from what you saying.. Have an example since where talking about Hydrogen... Like to see your thinking on this topic..

Ah, so really all you have to do is figure out the probability that any given molecule will have its valence cloud at its lowest energy level (smallest), then you can use plain old finite improbability to transport them to the container vessel.

How many moles of water molecules do you have to sift to find one that's not in it's lowest energy state? And once you find it to electrolyze, can it be done? I think Heisenburg will have something to say about it...

The mind reels.

sifting it down that much I don't think will make any more but make the process easier i believe