Insight with dead battery
 

Car listed for sale in my area with a dead battery.
From the ad:
"2000 Honda Insight, hybrid, 50mpg, 180,000 miles, Needs new hybrid battery, no AC, Has brand new tires, $1000.

Hybrid battery runs about $3,000.00. Cash only. You will have to haul away."

Shouldn't I be able to bring a car battery, start it and drive it home?

Theoretically, yes. If there are other issues it might prove more difficult. Example, the car has a 12V starter, but it really never gets used as long as the high voltage pack is working...

The 3 cylinder engine operates, even when the MAIN HYBRID BATTERY is dead. If the car does not start up with jumper cables, then that poses a problem beyond the need for a replacement of the small battery that starts the car.

They are annoying as all get out when the starter battery is dead. Jumping them sometimes doesn't work no matter what the drive battery status is. Something about a critical minimum voltage for the controls of at least 10.7 volts which is new battery and stout cables. Or at least the one at work was like that.

If it won't start, call any local Honda dealer and speak with "someone who is very familiar with early (1st gen) Insights." You might ask for the service manager at one dealer, and if you don't get through, ask another dealer, and do the same with as many other dealers until you speak with someone who actually knows what they are talking about. THE LAST THING YOU NEED TO OWN IS AN INSIGHT THAT WILL NOT DRIVE. How much money are you paying for the car?

Exactly what he said.

Have you contacted the seller and asked him why the car will require towing? in case he knows the issue being something other than the battery.

I own or have owned a total of 4 Insights over the years. I currently own two, one that has structure damage.

I believe the car you want to buy is a 2000 Insight. Would you tell us the sale price, whether you ran any VIN histories, and the odometer reading.

Did you intend to buy this without a full prepurchase inspection?

Also, you quoted the cost of adding a new main battery quoted seems VERY HIGH. Also, what part of the country do you live?

Doug- location is given under the name of the user, where it says Location. OP lists Coeur D Alene, Idaho. He also says the sales price is $1k and OD is 180,000 miles. It's all in the first post except for your question of VIN history and intent to inspect.

If the hybrid battery is well and truly dead, then the car won't charge the 12v battery and it's probably also been killed. You won't make it far down the road in this case, even if you bring a new one.

Probably the seller doesn't know the trick about disconnecting the plugs from the BCM that will re-enable 12v charging between 1100-4500 rpms.

My profession for the last 32 years has been somebody who people pay to buy used cars and new cars. And given the low $1000 price tag, most very cheap cars end up being far more expensive than the frugal buyer could have ever expected. it's better to spend more money for a better vehicle that's going to require less work after the purchase then to go after a really cheap car that could turn into a money pit

Highly unlikely you will find someone that qualifies for that statement. Probably take 20+ calls.

Wholeheartedly agree with the second bit there.

That is doubly true for a hybrid.

The only people that should own an insight are those passionate about them and are not necessarily in need of cheap, reliable transportation.

I half disagree with that....many Insights are being sold cheap because few people want them...and the thought of a $2000 IMA battery scares people. Insights with IMA battery issues are selling for less than a comparable non-hybrid car would even though they can obviously be driven without the IMA and still get phenomenal fuel economy, as evidence by people both on this site and in IC.

You only half disagree because you're actually passionate about them. :)

Folks that live where emissions are required can't do what you describe, and "phenomenal" comes with qualifiers. They get garbage mileage in the city with bypassed/inop battery, and are grossly under powered. They are phenomenal freeway cruisers though... when you eventually get them up to speed.

"cheap and reliable" - there are plenty of other non-battery issues that can rapidly destroy any gas savings particularly if you can't do your own work.

So we come back to having to be passionate about them... you don't care about the economics, and are willing to deal with the issues ANY 12-18 year old car may throw at you.

Valid. :)

Garbage mileage in the city compared to an Insight with a functional IMA but still significantly better than most cars out there...and more than any other car for the price, save walking or a bicycle.

...I guess I am passionate... :o

Any 12-18 year old car will have its share of issues. ;)

They actually accelerate pretty well, as long as you know to stay in 3rd until you reach cruising speed.

You should be able to fire it up and drive it away if you bring a new 12V battery with you, install it, then pull up the carpet in the back, pull off the big battery switch cover and flip the IMA switch off.

I drove Ron Burgundy for months with the big battery turned off, it was pretty slow without IMA assist but functioned fine (other than the AC won't work with it turned off)

If you try that and it doesn't work then the car isn't worth messing with no matter how cheap it is

Wow! Thanks for all the support. I'm pretty handy just inexperienced with hybrids. I'll go try to jump it and see if it runs and drives and follow all the advice accordingly.

Bring a Torx T30 bit screwdriver and follow these directions:

Honda Insight (2000-2006) - Battery Bypass Instructions

I agree. Being able to achieve 62 miles per gallon when I'm primarily driving on the highway is awesome.

I have to Honda Insight hybrids.

The first is a 2001 with has right around 61,000 original I'm keeping this one.

The other Honda inside is it 2005, which I ran over curb in a parking lot.

Before understanding the damage to the frame of my 2005, I drove it for about 4 months without realizing the extent of damage to the frame. That's when I more fully investigated the condition of the frame and the damage. I learned that there would be extensive cost if I repair aluminum frame. There is another repair alternative that was recommended to me by a dedicated Honda Insight forum. But now that I own my 2001, with only 61000 miles, and a Honda battery that's only five or six years old.

By the way, I was able to obtain a replacement battery for my Honda Insight for closer to $1,500.

Whoever buys my damaged frame Honda will be given the option of buying with a brand new battery installed, or as is. However, anyone who buys that vehicle intent on just driving it will be driving a vehicle that could pose some degree of danger if in a front-end collision.

I also would highly recommend that anyone buying a used Insight know as much as possible before jumping into a deal on a high mileage that -- as a 2000 model -- is almost 29 years old. Add to this the reality that does not drive, and cannot be road tested, makes even a $1,000 price look VERY unreasonable to me.

There have been transmission issues with the manual transmission that must be evaluated before buying any manual Insight.

20 calls? I doubt that. If you find any service manager who has highly experienced professionals working for them, odds are one of them will have been around as long or longer than the first generation model was sold. And many of those who were hybrid specialist for the first generation model have the additional knowledge that's come from years of service and repair of existing models on the road in their area.

So I'd recommend making up to five phone calls to five different dealers and if you find out that I am wrong, what has it cost you to make 5 phone calls to dealers in a general area, no less in a metropolitan area with multiple Honda dealers.

Just don't settle for an answer from anyone except for the service manager or the tech that has had the most experience with hybrids, both first generation model insights as well as Hondas newer hybrid models.

Math much? 2018-2000 = 18.

But I agree with everything else... :)

You're very optimistic. An "expert" who has a lot of experience with the G1 Insight is only likely to have seen a handful in their whole career given that there were only 17,020 made, and only about 12K ended up in the U.S.

On the other hand, perhaps I was being pessimistic. It might only take 19 calls. :)

An Insight post I haven't responded to yet? ;)

I can believe in a decent $1000 G1. Few people want these cars. They're not super quiet. They're very slow with a failed battery. They have only two seats and look bizarre. Gas is rising, but people aren't thinking about it yet. It may be very easy to make one pass inspection with a bad battery, but it requires knowledge someone is unlikely to know unless they already own and care about one.

There are a bazillion used Priuses on the market for under $4,000 which will reliably deliver 45+ mpg, have trouble-free automatic transmissions, back seats, and batteries that don't fail. There are plenty of options with EV range for under $10,000 which are far more luxurious and cheaper to drive per mile, for those who care. The Insight is increasingly niche.

These are usually very reliable cars - I was just reading a Facebook post of one that had just rolled past 600,000 miles. It got its second transmission at 508,000, but otherwise hasn't had any maintenance to speak of. Chances are good that an Insight which won't start has either a very dead hybrid battery (which can be bypassed) and/or a dead 12v battery, and/or bad engine ground straps. Knowing what I know, I'd give it a 90% or better chance I could get it going and make it inspectable for under $50.

Without a hybrid battery, they're definitely not fast, but they'll still easily overtake any classic VW or Geo Metro. They're not nearly as fun to drive, but no less reliable, and even with a bad battery, 50+ mpg in any but the worst stop an go traffic is not only achievable, but easy.

Would I recommend one to friends a family at this point? Probably not. But I'd definitely help an enthusiast out on this forum.

Err... Not for an Insight. Unless you're using the A/C a lot, 62 mpg is pretty bad. I've averaged a bit over 70 mpg for the ~150K miles I've driven mine, and that includes a lot of winding mountain roads, and some dirt. And I've by no means got the best mpg out there...

We live over 1 mile above sea level. This affects fuel economy. If I could have averaged 75 mpg or more, without drastically changing our drive habits, we would have exceeded our 63 mpg to 75 mpgs or more..

I got my current one for 1500. Of course it needed the trans replaced -shrug-.

If you haven already seen this is here is a link that might be useful.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ems-18892.html

My place is at 4800 ft, and it is in a valley. I regularly drive over 7000-8900 ft passes.