Insight edges closer
 

After many, many months,I told my neighbor Dennis that he'd have to take me off the list for purchasing his 1st-gen Insight,as I'd re-tasked the funds for the upcoming Darko trip in September.
I was doing community service work at our front park a couple days ago and Dennis came by to tell me that he'd 'give' me the car.It requires 'work' (he'll make a list).
I told him that I'd love to have the car,but it would be October before I could begin to do anything with it.He wants me to have it and see if I can improve on the 73-mpg he was seeing with it.
I'll let you know when it's in my 'driveway.':)

I hope you mod it to the moon!

Woo, I think you have just about everyone here jealous. A free insight! Congrats!

idle
 

I think it's already shot,along with some other issues,ergo the 'free' price.Also,Dennis has been a pretty serious environmentalist since the 70s (earth-sheltered passive solar home,photovoltaics,etc.) and he's heard about what EcoModder members have done to their Insights and wants to support the madness.:)
If I can make it into the 100-mpg club,I think he'll be real pleased.(he was seeing 73-mpg hwy)
I've peeked at the Hybrid Forum,and will be leaning on hybrid members for advice and recommendations.:thumbup:

to the Moon
 

That's the plan.Also,if they're easily removable,I could in theory,get it to Darko one day,run it modded,then yank everything off and rerun it naked to compare it's baseline Cd with what CAR and DRIVER got at the A2 tunnel.This would give us another comparison point between the sister wind tunnels.
I figure that,if Illuminati Motor Works (X-PRIZE) can get Cd 0.165 out of a (essentially) Cd 0.34 1956 Porsche 356 A,then we ought to be able to match,or beat that coefficient.;)

free
 

Yes,it's a great gesture.And I'll try and reciprocate by getting some killer drag coefficient with it,and mileage to go along with it.And I've got a lot of inspiration to feed off by all the Members you've already been plucking fruit from the Insight Tree!:D:thumbup:

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. I'm happy for you.

IIRC Insight are hybrid. Are you going to leave it stock for comparison purposes vs converting to pure EV? Massively increasing the battery energy density shouldn't affect the aerodynamic result.

Apparently, Insights have a 22" tire height. BMW i3 tires are about 26", a 10% overdrive. My vote is for 19" aluminum motorcycle rims laced on Model A ford hubs. Else old MG wires with knock-offs. You're going to need the re-gearing. :thumbup:

overdrive
 

I get about 18% overdrive over 22" tire.

Subscribed.

I have a lot of info in my build thread about basic bits that these cars need, but will be following (and hopefully duplicating) your more extensive mods.

stock?
 

*I want the mods to allow for a 'stock' condition to be achieved within a matter of minutes.Like BamZipPow has allowed for with his single-wheel boat tail trailer project.
It will allow a trip to Darko for 'fully-modded' testing,then denude the car for a naked baseline,and then reattachment again for continuing the trip west.
This way,we can compare to the Cd 0.30 CAR and DRIVER measured for the 1st-gen Insight at the A2 tunnel.
I'll be traveling light,so stock wheels/tires will be necessary (I'm not going to pull a trailer full of additional bits and pieces ) to get mpg numbers along with drag data.
I may pay an mpg penalty with the stock gearing.It will just have to be.At least I'll know the Cd each way.And if the 10%/5% metric holds,I can reverse-engineer the penalty for not gear-matching.

Subscribed!!!

Take a cylinder 24" tall and 26" in diameter, divide it in quarters and knock it over like a stack of nickels. Boom! Boat tail.

One vertical, like a Continetal kit, one horizontal (face up) over the single wheel, and the other two distributed.

Website fer some Insight mods. ;)
Honda Insight Mods

Looks like a perfect method fer adapting Dark Aero II. :)

From there:
http://yves.fungiart.com/images/insi...r/rear12_2.jpg

Hinge line at mid-height, with accordion bellows above and below it, to minimize their expansion/contraction. Else armadillo plates.

A better thread where the OP built one from scratch.
Trailer Hitch for a teardrop camper - Insight Central: Honda Insight Forum

Cut two slots in the stock bumper cover and add tabs to the ends of the aluminum bumper with Heim joints so they don't bind. One quarter-elliptic spring under the center bottom with a bracket adjustable for angle. Or a half-elliptic, with the wheel at one end, the pivot at the other and the trailer body in the center.

You just lost 40lb of square steel tubing, and the whole assembly doesn't try to torque around the centerline.

Or a full width fabric hinge made of conveyor belt material. The mind boggles.

update
 

I took delivery of the car Monday.We jumped it off a battery charger and I drove it as is to my place.
The CRX battery was identical to the Insight's so I robbed it.The car starts, runs,and drives.
Tuesday I dropped the insurance on the CRX and transferred the policy to the Insight.
I also went by the tax office for the title change document.They want the car inspected before the title can be executed and registration.I didn't want to go this far.
She's got 'Maint' light.
She's got 'Check Engine light.
She's got IMA light.
The check engine light will cause a 'fail' at inspection.
She appears to drive just fine with the depleted 144-VDC IMA pack.
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I'll have to get her scanned and see what the codes are.
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Otherwise,she seems to drive okay.At 203,605 miles she indicates an average 53.4 mpg average.
She's the 2000 model,5-speed manual.
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The registration and inspection are good 'til August.I can legally drive the car as long as I have insurance.This will buy me some time unless Dennis objects.If so,I'll have to go to plan-B.
I've looked at some of the IMA battery reconditioning articles.I'll contact some boneyards 'n see about the availability of used packs.
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I'm gonna meet a war buddy in Oklahoma City tomorrow for a few days visit.I may take the Insight,it's only a couple hours drive.She may reveal some new issues.Less than half the fuel of the T-100 also.
Anyway,it will allow me some seat time to acquaint myself with the car.:)
I test drove one identical to it in 2001.'never thought I'd actually own one.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to try grid charging it - a weak IMA battery will cause both IMA and CEL. You might be able to get the IMA light to stay off long enough to get it inspected, at the very least. If the car still has auto stop, you can probably get all of the lights to go off for a while at least, as that indicates the battery isn't completely toast.

You can build a charger in an afternoon, or someone could loan you one. You can find diagrams and parts lists in my build thread, if you'd like to model it after mine.

Maint light is the oil change interval indicator. It blinks after 6500 miles, and stays on solid at 7500. You can reset to 0 like so:
1) Starting with the key in "2", use the FCD button (left of the steering wheel) to switch out of "segment" and into lifetime/trip A/trip B (any will work)
2) Turn the key to "0"
3) Begin holding the "trip" button
4) Turn the key to the "2" position, and continue holding "trip" until the maint light goes off (around 15-20 seconds)

The buttons on the cluster are known to get flakey after a while, due to oxidation on the contacts. I replaced mine, but it's also possible to open it up and clean them. I'd try cycling through the "trips" to see if the button is working properly.

It will be great when it's all 'official', but possession is 9/10ths. Right?

1st 'trip' report
 

*I got back from OKC Sunday.
*335-miles.
*15-mph headwind going.
*33-mph headwind coming back.
*Around 89-mph airspeed.
*Road speed:tried to hold 65-mph.
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*Without the IMA assist,she wouldn't pull any kind of grade at all and I probably spent 20% of the trip in 3rd gear trying to hold 65-mph.
*The regular 12-V battery gave out just shy of the Red River and I coasted into the Winstar Casino parking area.
* With sunglasses and glare I couldn't see the 'battery' icon glowing.When the instrument panel went dark I knew I was in trouble.
*Then the chugging began as the voltage became too low for the coil.
*At $189 a night,plus tax,there wasn't going to be any overnight stay,charging the battery in a room.
*Buzz drove me into Gainsville Texas to a WalMart.
*$119 (no core) later,I had a fresh battery and it was back into Oklahoma and Winstar to do the swap.
*I went back to the LOVES travel center where I'd began the trip and refilled at the same pump.
*6.661 gallons,for 50.29 mpg.
*$12.65 for the round trip.
*3.77 cents/mile.
*I'm okay with that considering all the wind and 3rd-gear running.
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*Today I went to the inspection center and jaw-boned with them about the up-coming inspection/title transfer/registration.
*If I pass the basic safety inspection and spend at least $600 (oxygen sensors/cat. converter,etc.) trying to get the check-engine lamp to go off,the DPS is supposed to grant an emissions waiver or time extension for the year which will allow the title/registration.
*I also got the number for Honda Heaven of Fort Worth,so I can find out about salvage IMA packs.None of the local wrecking lots have anything.
*I'd like to do the pack reconditioning myself.
*I also printed off a list of Honda OBD-II check engine error codes.
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The car reminds me of the CRX quite a bit.It will be interesting when the hybrid component is functioning.
I'm gonna run it out to West Texas Thursday,come back Friday.See if the wind conditions are better.Whatever the weather,it's going to be a cheaper ride than the truck.

Which tires are on the car?

tires
 

They're Bridgestones.Around 165 60-70R/14s.
38-psi F
35-psi R
I'll look more closely 'n get that data.

Bridgestone Potenza RE-92 165-65r14 is the ideal tire for the car, as you might already know, and it sounds like you've already got them. Other tires such as the Michelin Defenders offer more grip and significantly less road noise for a relatively small hit to MPG, but in terms of economy, the Potenzas are at the top of the heap.

As far as I'm aware, they're the lowest rolling resistance consumer tire on the road today.

How are they for stopping distance?

Couldn't day, never seen any data about that but I have no personal complaints about stopping distance.

tires
 

yes,sidewall says P165/65R 14 78S Bridgestone Potenza RE-92s.
The car rolls at the least provocation.I've never seen anything like it.
They're worn and checked a bit and I'll replace with same thing if I can get them.It will also keep the Cd and R-R identical to OEM.
I want to do 75-mph and 80-mph testing at some point,which would be risky with the current tires.
As to braking,the front rotors on this car are warped a bit so I'm trying to baby the brakes as much as possible.Any expense I can prevent will help with the September trip.

stopping
 

If we can find an original CAR and DRIVER or ROAD & TRACK road test review from 2000,they will have this data.

Tommy gets Insight for a week
 

Strand's Automotive said they don't do hybrids and sent me to Tommy's High Tech Auto yesterday.
They scanned the car and came up with 3-error codes,all with the IMA system:
*voltage controller
*voltage controller fan
*IMA pack
*We discussed my economic realities and the check engine light/title transfer-registration.
*I dropped the car off there this morning.
*My neighbor followed me into town and gave me a ride back home.
*Tommy's will keep the car for a week and see what they can do with a $600 budget.
*If they can't get the check engine light to go off,I'll apply to the Department of Public Safety for a waiver/time extension.
*This will allow the title transfer and Dennis can move on with his life.
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I had to drive to the Sanger Post Office to sign for some registered mail yesterday.The IMA pack showed 100% and the hybrid boost seemed to work the whole way up and back.
It's quirky.'hope they can sort things out.:p

Without a working hybrid battery, the 12v system will not charge. I believe you can get a refurbished battery for around $500. Or, you can bypass the hybrid system, which will re-enable the 12v DC-DC converter, but you'll still have the CEL. Someone over on InsightCentral might have a way to spoof the signal to the ECU, and make the CEL go off, allowing you to drive it like a conventional gas car with a super efficient alternator.

The RE92 tires are available at Tire Rack, about $79 each.

As for battery issues: get busy on InsightCentral.com and find the recipes for grid chargers.

Look for the thread under Gen 1, Modifications and Technical Issues.
I think it's a sticky there.
Many batteries have been brought back from near-death by good use of a charger and discharger.

I haven't seen any new replacement IMA batteries for anything like $500. More like $2000. Used or refurbished ones will likely soon have the same issues as your ailing one. The remedy in any case, is occasional and appropriate use of a grid charger, and sometimes a discharger is needed. If they were built into the car - and if owners were told to use them 2-3 times yearly - hybrid batteries would last several times longer than they do.

IMA pack
 

Evidently,the guys there at the shop are familiar with battery conditioning and isolating offending battery sticks in the pack,and have a local source for 'living' sticks to substitute in to the pack.
The cooling fan issue needs to be addressed if it's toast.
Same for the voltage controller.
I can legally drive the car through the end of August without doing a thing to it if it's agreeable to Dennis.But that would be kind of rude to just string him along like that.
Tommy's wants to get me passed with the inspection and they know I'm not a member of the demographic who'd routinely venture into this kind of car technology.
Come October,when I'm back from the wind tunnel trip I can focus more on the Insight.If I start to get obsessive about it now,I risk being ready by September.That's unacceptable.

The reason I asked about stopping distance is that at one time that was the trade-off for low rolling resistance. I was curious if that's been ameliorated.
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The Top 5 Problems with the Honda Insight Hybrid Vehicle

Pull the 12 volt battery power to reset car, Let IMA recharge, do this 4-5 times, Install clutch switch to fool car into never using assist. Complete the emissions reset drive cycle. See if any codes pop up. Drive in the morning or night when it's cooler. If no codes get it inspected as fast as possible.

Unless you get a Catalytic converter code spending $600 to get a waiver is a waste of money.

Plan B: Cooling Fan and Voltage controller may be just codes from a failing battery. Find someone with a good battery, swap it to get inspected and then un-swap. Takes about 1 to 1.5 hours for a first time swapping batteries.

In Massachusetts we have a rolling exemption from IMA light obd2 emissions testing for 2001 and older cars. Who knew Texas was stricter?

Insight hybrid technology is super simple, don't over estimate it.

I have used a bcm fooler to drive without IMA battery completely, silences all IMA related codes, allows lean burn. Only worked for 1 hour for me, was buggy, Prototype not 100% working. Contact Retepsnikrep aka Peter Perkins. I haven't been in touch with him for 8 months.

I'm in contact with another person who says there is a simpler way. It's unconfirmed, likely still gives error codes though.

cat
 

The guys are convinced that there's nothing wrong with the cat or any of the O2 sensors.It's all in the electronics,which they agree is kind of a scam with respect to emissions.
The presence of the check engine light 'infers' that there 'could' be something wrong with the emission controls,so it's an automatic 'fail' as far as state law.
If I drive an 8,500-lb GVW vehicle with 10-mpg, Texas could care less what comes out of the tailpipe,and these vehicles aren't required to have an emissions test.
But if you drive a 50+ mpg vehicle,for 24-years it must pass an emissions test.
(we won't mention that the Teacher Retirement System,and Texas Municipal Employee Retirement System pension funds own stock in every major oil company on Earth,as well as every gas-guzzler-producing auto manufacturer on Earth)(And that their building permits allow for the exponential growth we're experiencing,which fuels the perpetual gridlock which guarantees that Texas will forever be out of compliance with EPA Clean Air Act standards; which creates the need for the emissions testing that they mandate) (etc.)
Bless their microencephalitic little heads.:p
I love their math!
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Thanks for all the tips.I'm recording all of them.

Apparently someone succeeded where I failed in converting the Insight to gas only and silencing the IMA light. I sent him a couple messages.

no word yet
 

Tommy's has had the car a full week now. No calls from them.Hurry up and wait!

Sanger - emissions county? Must be.

I got my Echo inspected earlier this year, non-emissions county. I completely forgot to turn my CEL for my p0420 off. Passed and not a single word was said. Only when I got back into the car and saw the light on did I realize I had forgotten to clear the code as I rolled into the inspection place.

update
 

3+ weeks now,and not a peep out of the shop.I took an air bottle by there before coming here and inflated a low tire.
Side note: Texas is up to 23-counties now,which are out of compliance for ozone pollution,and now millions of people like me face up to a $640/year minimum fee to register their car,when in an adjoining county,the same car will pass for $12.
Next year there will be more counties.