It's not what you drive...it's how you drive it!
 

an interesting video showing a bmw m3 and a prius going ten laps.

Granted, a prius is at home P&G ing. But the message is "fix the nut behind the wheel"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk

Very true, but... this is somewhat like comparing apples and oranges. A hybrid is built to catch and reuse energy in stop-go traffic, with steady driving all that extra technology is just dead weight. On the other hand, there are lots of Prii spending 90% of their time on the highway, so it is important to show people how important driving style is.

I thought the message was "drafting nets better mileage". ;)

nice!!


Or blocking the road helps everybody get ggod mpg!!!!

The assertions made by "Top Gear":

1. The Prius is more environmentally damaging than BMW M3
2. "At this speed" the BMW is more economical than the Prius
3. The Prius is more environmentally damaging than Land Rover Discovery

The "facts" they present to "prove" that the Prius is worse than the BMW M3, was simply that "at this speed", The BMW got better F/E than the Prius. They never stated what "this speed" was, only that it was pushing the Prius as fast as it would go. This was clearly outside of the parameters that the Prius was designed for. Perhaps a more viable "real world" test would have been to drive them both side by side across central London at rush hour. I'll take bets on that one.

The only thing that they stated as "evidence" that the Prius is more damaging than the Discovery was an unnamed "recent study". The only example they used was for nickel used in the batteries. Do they think that the metal used in the Discovery was mined in mineral rich Great Britain? And that the plastics in that car were made from locally drilled oil?

All they proved to me was that some people will believe anything you tell them, especially if they want to believe it, and you don't have to prove anything. And there is always a way to design a test in order skew results in your favor.

This is really about as entertaining as watching political sound bite commercials at election time in America.

Top Gear constantly makes fun of car companies, and cars like the Prius. They are just entertaining. If both cars kept up with every day traffic for 10 gallons of fuel, the M3 would be stopped well before the Prius, we all know that.

Absolutely,
My intention was for humor and point of view. Not to have everyone rush out and buy an M3.

But I'm sure if SVOboy or Christ or MadisonMPG or anyothers got behind the M3, you could probably squeeze out a pretty decent MPG.

Rarely are the two expressions "Top Gear" and "facts" used together.

TG is basically an entertainment show and for seeing cars driven sideways and lots of "POOOWWWWAAAAAAAA" TG is great , but for serious car information there are other and better sources.

Pete.

Sure, I could slowly hypermile an M or a Q, and get mpg's in the 30's. But I'd rather drive 74mph in an Insight getting >50mpg, or an AeroCivic getting, what, 75mpg?

It's not just how you drive, it's also what you drive.

Bingo! :D

I love Top Gear - never miss an episode! Good entertainment.

The only thing that bugs me: despite how ridiculously exaggerated and fabricated their anti-eco rants are, I wonder how many people out there just accept what they present at face value.

Makes about as much sense as me hypermiling an F40 Ferrari.

regards
Mech

Mech,

you got a F40????????:eek:

;)

LOL, no I don't. I used to work at a Ferrari and Mercedes dealership in Arlington, Va.

They had an Egyptian mechanic that weighed 85 pounds and he could climb into the engine compartment of a Ferrari and listen to the engine while another mechanic test drove the car, with the hood (or trunk if you want to call it that) closed!

1983-4.

Last car I ordered parts for was a 300 SL roadster that belonged to Paul Mellon. The grille assembly was $3500 new.

I own a 02 Insight and a 94 VX, all the cars I need. Take it easy and enjoy the RIDE ;).

Both have less than 54 k original miles.

regards
Mech

kinda off topic but; i always see priuses(?) speeding on the 5 north at like 85 mph every time i head to sacramento

It is my impression as well that many Prii are driven like they are stolen. :confused:

At least, when I speculate on what that type of person likely drove previously (Yuckon, Cadillac, etc.) they are doing less damage than before. :rolleyes:

In the same programme ("of practical everyday advice" they put a gallon of fuel into 4-5 supercars to see which one would go the furthest. Can't remember the result of that one.

TG did do a "hypermiling" article or at least economical driving feature on driving from Basel to Blackpool in 3 diesel cars - Polo Bluemotion, Subaru Legacy Diesel and a Jaguar XJ Diesel. All except the Legacy made it and that (IMHO) is because Captain Slow took the wrong route. They were impressed especially at the Jag which Mr Clarkson drove badly (higher speed, A/C on full etc.) because he wanted it to run out about halfway, which was near to his house.

Which leads to my second point. In real day to day driving I have yet to find a Prius owner here who can match the official MPG figures. OK they don't hypermile. At the same time owners of Diesels can regularly beat the official figures with little effort. Same true of road tests, quite a few of them comment that it doesn't match up too. A little like that Civic hybrid case that was here a few days ago.

I think my next eco car will not feature Hybrid tech but will remain an oil burner, probably a 1.4 ish.

Or like the driver is high, transporting drugs, and trying to ditch the cops? ;)

Haha. That's common. Most probably to get rid of their car loaning agent :D

No - Al Gore III.

...or a 6.0L V8 Trailblazer SS :D

If FE is your thing, why purchase not drive an econo box?

Because I'm 6'3" 230 and drive 40k miles a year.
Because 02-06 Q45s are the best value in the luxo/sedan market
Because I can.
Because only a 'bigot' would ask that question.

Look if I can get 31mpg in a 4000lb V8 with 340hp and ride in style....why buy a econ box?

At least I'm not the guy running up you rear and flashing and honking......

and the best reason......I want to live thru the crash.

:rolleyes:

frank lee,



I hate it when you look at me like that...........



ok, I got a little carried away.......

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.



Who's the bigot? All I'm suggesting is that FE motivations is more satisfying in an FE car, rather than your premise, that it doesn't matter what you drive... which is slightly irrational.

At 72 MPH I get 46+ MPG in my $3500 car, with less than 54k on the odometer.

My parents are alive today because they were in a 77 Honda Accord and avoided a head on collision with a drunk in a Cadillac when he swerved into their lane on US1 in Marathon in the Florida Keys.

Pop averaged 39.5 MPG in that Accord for 50 k miles in the late 70s.

Both the Accord and my VX were totalled and I rebuilt them, one in 1978, the other in 2008.

Pop turns 89 this May 8th, B17 pilot in WW2, Mom turns 85 August 3rd. They both drive Cadillac Eldorados (99 and 01) and average close to 30 MPG on the highway.

There is a valid rationale for driving the heavier car and sacrificing mileage for perceived safety, but the above example shows that a smaller more maneuverable car has advantages in emergency maneuvers.

The problem with the philosophy of driving a heavier car because it is more safe in a collision, is that provides an incentive to just make and buy heavier and heavier cars. It's like an arms race of sorts and in many cases promotes aggressive driving in the larger cars.

I see that every day, and I just laugh when the Suburban pulls over 2 lengths in front of me. My mileage just went up 10 MPG!


regards
Mech

My three Ford Focus and my F150 all do better than both of these cars, and I can't drive 55. I am usually 60 and up. The Truck (till it was wrecked from ice on the road not speed) got 18+. The two older Focus 2002 and 2006 both with automatics get about 29, and the new 2009 with manual is currently getting 35.9. The 2009 should do much better with aero mods and tightening of the nut behind the wheel.

narrow-minded and irrational.....yeah your a bigot!
by saying that if I want FE I should do it in a FE car is also lazy.

But stepping outside the box I have somehow stoke the flames of narrow-mindedness.

instead of welcoming to the fold all who want to try, youwant everyone to walk lockstep in FE cars.

I have a dear friend who is has can't drive for health reasons and also has arthritis. she gets rides from many different people. She constantly comment how comfortable and quite my car is. And it is. Because that's what you get when you have a car like that.

so yes, you are narrow minded and irrational. Getting FE in an FE car is like an open book test. Someone already did all the work and you just looking up the answers.

Life is fully lived when conformity is set aside and questioned are asked.

Why can't I fe my car?

Okay, so I'm a lazy bigot according to you. Yeah, good one dude.

Do you work for big oil? Why not set a good example for your children and others to learn by instead of name calling others who make valid points regarding a nations vehicle choices, that nation with the largest carbon footprint per citizen? How embarrassing for you in other nations eyes! (not that Kiwis are much better)

I suppose here comes another vitriolic defence of improving FE on big heavy cars, instead of considering a more planet friendly vehicle as viable? Ignorance.....

Mcrews, I agree with you: the challenge isn't simply what is the best FE I can get, but what is the best FE I can get with what I have. Who really rises to the challenge? The driver who buys an economy car, or the driver who improves the efficiency of a luxury car/ sports car / muscle car / truck? Personally, I'm much more impressed by a driver who manages 25 mpg out of car rated for 18mpg than I am with a bandwagon greenie who gets 30 mpg in a car rated as such. The same type of narrow-minded thinking you are deriding here is rampant in the performance drivers' groups as well - just apply it to racing rather than FE. Plenty of people believe the "performance car" name applies only to cars defined in some unknown rulebook as performance cars. The RWD guys say it has to be RWD, the V8 guys say it has to be big displacement (and RWD, and usually 2 door), the Eurosnobs make exception for the V6 forcefed "sport sedans", the "rally car" wannabes make exception for Japanese AWD turbo fours, etc. etc. Just as in the FE realm, in the sport driving world, it's not necessarily about what you drive (or race), but how you drive it.
I'm new to the FE thing, and I make no claim to being good at it. I've got a bit more experience in autocross/track racing, and make no claim to being all that good at that either. However, I've lost count of the "superior performance" cars I've embarrassed both at the autocross and track day events in my substandard non-performance FWD (and Haldexed) cars. That is a tradition I plan to continue. ;) I hope to get a bit better mileage in between race days though. I commend your quest to improve mileage while enjoying your drive as you do. I don't think it is impossible to serve more than one master, so to speak.

Depends on your goal.

If saving fuel is the true #1 goal then you will select the most economical vehicle that has the capacity to meet your hauling needs AND you will operate and mod it for max fe AND you will seek to not even use that as much as possible, by walking, biking, trip combining, whatever it takes.

What you won't do is waste time and effort trying to make a sow into a sipper.

If you're just into the challenge of modding, that will work on anything. It's better than nothing anyway.

If you're into the bottom line moneywise, what you choose to do all depends on what your starting point is, how resourceful you are, and what you find.

Having said that, I believe it is possible for any and everyone that wants to, to have and afford to have a vehicle that does what they need and gets 30 mpg +; even if it means adding another vehicle to their fleet.

“Mcrews, I agree with you: the challenge isn't simply what is the best FE I can get, but what is the best FE I can get with what I have. Who really rises to the challenge? The driver who buys an economy car, or the driver who improves the efficiency of a luxury car/ sports car / muscle car / truck? Personally, I'm much more impressed by a driver who manages 25 mpg out of car rated for 18mpg than I am with a bandwagon greenie who gets 30 mpg in a car rated as such. The same type of narrow-minded thinking you are deriding here is rampant in the performance drivers' groups as well - just apply it to racing rather than FE. I commend your quest to improve mileage while enjoying your drive as you do. I don't think it is impossible to serve more than one master, so to speak.”
Mifunego,
KUDOS!!! Very well said. :thumbup:
And that is exactly my point on the larger scale of life. I read an article in Sports Illustrated several yrs ago about a high school football player who had lost his hand in a power saw accident. He was a starting wide receiver prior to the accident. He wasn’t kicked off the team because “all football players have to have two hands”. And while he did not start he still had several key catches his senior yr. That kid is my HERO. :D
I had a 66 mustang with a 200ci straight six when I was in college. It was also baby blue. In the 70’s if your mustang didn’t have a 289 V8 you were considered a sissy car. :( I discovered that Ofenhouser (sp) made a 3 one barrel carbs adaptor. That and some headers made for a real surprise :eek: when I turned it on! Also new found respect.:cool:

“Depends on your goal.

If saving fuel is the true #1 goal then you will select the most economical vehicle that has the capacity to meet your hauling needs AND you will operate and mod it for max fe AND you will seek to not even use that as much as possible, by walking, biking, trip combining, whatever it takes.

What you won't do is waste time and effort trying to make a sow into a sipper.

If you're just into the challenge of modding, that will work on anything. It's better than nothing anyway.

If you're into the bottom line moneywise, what you choose to do all depends on what your starting point is, how resourceful you are, and what you find.

Having said that, I believe it is possible for any and everyone that wants to, to have and afford to have a vehicle that does what they need and gets 30 mpg +; even if it means adding another vehicle to their fleet”

Frank Lee,
Agreed. :thumbup: I have a nice bike that I use not only to get exercise but also to go the 1.7 miles to the post office (it’s always a nice day ;) in Northern CA) instead of driving.
I drive to see my clients and I office out of my home (instead of being an ‘ugly American’ and having a big wasteful office that I would hardly use). I carry a bag in my car with an HP OfficeJet J3680 copier/fax/scanner/printer. I also have a small netbook. That way when I am at the client’s home I don’t have to leave the house to make copies of documents (like an ugly American who works for big oil might do:eek:). I also purchased a scanner last yr and am 90% paperless in the home office (I hate to see spotted owls homeless :rolleyes:).
And speaking of examples and children, my 22yr old daughter who is in college and works full time, rides a bike to college even though she owns a 2007 KIA Sportage EX. I have no idea where she got the idea of riding a bike……:eek: ..oh wait, I used to take her to preschool on the child seat that I had mounted on my bike 16 yrs ago. (before I had a big oil chushy job).
You know, the bad part about being a self-employed American is that you have nothing to fallback on if you don’t make it. So you look outside of the box to save money and be efficient.
Amazing how the underlying motives and thoughts :eek: tend to rear their ugly head so quickly.:confused:

What? Seems like I've been rained on 58 out of the last 60 days. :mad:

well I know.....we try to ignore the first 90 days of the year.......
Some years, Sacramento has more rainfall than Seatle until around Easter. Then it just stops!

nice self-portrait........but he's american .......oh yeah and an ACTOR.

Guess NZ doesn't have any internationally famous icons of their own.

But if that's the best you can do.......


shame really.
I answer all your issues and the best you can do is repeat that you are a bigot and have a very narrow view of America and the world.

Its not my best, and I don't need to say anything, when you do it all...

Bully in a big car? Feuding silver back gorilla driving a dinosaur? Hyper aggressive older guy driving a fuel sucking pig trying to get onside and feel his inner greeny.....

All I did was suggest a low emission small car would be a more suitable vehicle considering our motivations here on ecomodder.......................

And Starchy Bunkerhill goes into name calling, divisive mob garnering behaviour, trigger happy, psycho mode.......

Being prone to irrational displays of anger if someone questions your vehicle of choice, does show a worrying degree of anger....

I have tried to exit this confrontation with humour and an even draw for both parties, or even a win/win, but it appears you wish to keep taking this further, and capitalize of your victory(cough). Grow up and get a life. Time is precious, and wasting it here with you like this, is like your FSP car. Consuming more than is necessary and aggressively defending your psychological vehicle.

At least everyone in the playground got to watch a fight today, Mr Gorilla?

Maybe you can find some nzs who will agree to post positve commentsd in support of your narrow-minded attitude........

tired of waiting.

when two other posts agree with my posts they are silently disagreeing with yours.

So to make some petty small-minded nzer happy, I should sell my car? So someone who only sees the 0-60 times will go out and drive it fast. Thus getting worse mileage?? while I buy some eco box to make you happy?

Your little 'I hate America because' tirade is indicative of petty jealousy that comes from little or no involvement in actually being a productive force in the world economy. You just want to shut down the forces that actually drive the world economy.

"All I did was suggest a low emission small car would be a more suitable vehicle considering ....."
classic passive /aggressive behavior. No all you did was whine and moan about America. Then you crawled away claiming you were being bullied.

Surely, some nzer has a similar forum you could join......upps....guess not.

You state that I don't set an example for my children????
come on, back it up.

When the day is done and this thread is re-read, the two other posters will have validated who the bully was.

maybe if you got more than one tv channel, you'd have a broader view of life.

Like I said, I dont need to say anything....you keep digging yourself deeper, like a FSP trying to get traction in soft sand(so poetic)

Spreading false comments about myself (I hate the USA, I have crawled away, etc etc) shows your divisive bully nature, and inherent lack of honesty and character. Shame on you sir.

The one thing I agree with, is selling the fuel sucking pig. My car uses only 1/3 the fuel of your car... imagine if world oil demand more than halved, isnt that a really good thing?

The only abhorrent thing I find about America right now (apart from gun laws, predatory foreign policy and American beer)is the living in the past older males driving FSP's, publicly congratulating themselves for getting 23mpg, when most motorists in Europe and Australasia get twice the economy without trying. Duh. You could appear as an oil company employee acting as an apologist of sorts, smoothing over the global impact of a large vehicle choice.

The question for myself is whether to leave an insidious influence appear as a benign force, or to highlight it for the common good.

**** it, I'm done here, you win

Hmm, this does all make me wonder though, what are our motivations here on ecomodder? The concept that I (perhaps mistakenly?) intuited from the name "ecomodder" would be modders (folks who modify) vehicles for reasons of economy (assumedly fuel economy). I think that modders are those who enjoy taking an active part in customizing vehicles for reasons of appearance, higher performance, or in this case, better fuel economy. I mean, right at the top of the page it says: "Wrench smart. Drive smarter. Save fuel." I interpret that as, "Mod your vehicle to use less fuel. Drive your vehicle in a way to use less fuel. These are ways your vehicle can use less fuel." I don't see, "Buy a Prius" as part of the philosophy. If that's all it took, this would be a pretty boring website.

I may be wrong though.