Just bought a "fixed" dieselgater
 

Started seeing them all over the place the last few months. Good to see that VW and the EPA could come to an agreement, sparing these perfectly good cars from the crusher.

I picked up an '11 Sportwagen 6 speed, 55K from a used car dealer/garage.

I've always liked TDIs and was thinking about them when dieselgate hit.

I started looking into it seriously a little more than a week ago. I found out a few things. VW is providing ridiculously good extended warranties on emissions/exhaust/fuel system/ecm/and possibly the entire damn engine itself. This is very nice to have. And if you go VW CPO, the warranty is bumper to bumper 2 year/UNLIMITED mileage.

If you ring up a lot of miles, this could be a bumper to bumper 100K mile warranty, on a used car, who's resale has taken a beating due to the bad press.

I talked to a dealer who said the CPOs are bringing about 2K more than non-CPOs.

If you are in the market and want a comfy highway cruiser and will put a lot of hiway miles on, you really should consider them. If you have an urban commute, go get a prius.

I paid 9450. I think this was a fair price. If I was willing to go with a DSG, I could have done better. But, TDIs, IMO are much better with 3 pedals.

The 6MTs are getting scarce and the dealers know it. The DSGs are all over the place. Some dealers have 10-15 DSGs and not a single manual JSW.

No mods yet, nor will there be any to the drivetrain, so long as that warranty is in effect. Once it's over, if I still have it, maybe a DPF filter/EGR delete. We'll see. It will be a while.

Welcome to the orphan club. Egr delete, ok, dpf delete for me is a lot like a cat delete (kinda senseless) because it does something actually useful.

Here on the left coast, nobody wants a clutch but they still aren't around. Mostly German made.

My $0.02 YMMV.

thats a good deal. i am hunting for a dsg due to surgeries, if you see a hot deal please post it up.

You should unfix it.

Missoula VW has 30 total and 6 of them are manuals I don't know what's a good deal on one.
https://www.missoulavw.com/VehicleSe...mission=Manual

i may.....after the VW warranty runs out. Until then, I will not give them a reason to wiggle out of their coverage.

Don't know about Washington, but in New England, there are tons of DSGs and I think one can be picked up at a better deal than the manuals.

A good point to make is that CPOs have a 2 year unlimited bumper to bumper mileage warranty. If you crank up the miles, this could be huge.

Oh I didn't know it was still under warranty.
Yeah don't do anything that could void the warranty unless it can be easily undone.

i see the 2013 golfs with lower miles for $12k around here.

Have had it for a bit over 2 weeks and 3K miles. Absolutely love it. Have been between 43-45 mpg. Zero mods, driven for mileage, but not driven slowly. I suspect I could flog this thing mercillessly and still be above 35 mpg.

Will keep bone-stock drivetrain wise for warranty, but have considered an airdam and roof rack delete.

Has anyone done a roof rack delete on a JSW? Is it a PITA?

It already has a very nice belly pan. Cleanest stock underside I have seen.

Got to be great, a diesel factory re-tuned for efficiency!

I've always figured that side rails aren't anywhere as bad as crossrails, and the elevated side rails can be more easily fixed with inserts than removal. Smooth them out and almost all the problem goes away.

Diesels always need grill blocks, though, especially in the north- and yes, Ellington counts as north for a diesel.

Does anyone make inserts for the rails?

I am a bit hesitant to use grillblocks as the temp gauge, from my understanding, is more of an idiot light than a gauge giving actual temps.

Has anyone here done a grill block on a mk6 tdi?

Most temp gauges are idiot lights. Get an SG or UG, they're wonderful things.

Why pollute just to pollute?

VW replaced the NOx catalyst and Particulate filter with larger items that can actually do the job of reducing emissions. They retuned the DSG for higher shift points. All together this results in the exact same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and a reduction of 1 mpg (The particulate filter regens more because it is actually being used)

For my 2014 the warranty is 10 years / 120K miles from original sale date or 4 years / 48,000 miles from the time the car is fixed.

Parts Covered Under Extended Warranty
 The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Selective
Catalytic Reduction converter (SCR), Reducing Agent (AdBlue®)
Injector, other Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system components, Diesel
Particulate Filter (DPF) including Oxidation Catalytic Converter, the
exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators;
 The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail,
fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve, and all sensors
and actuators;
 The EGR system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR
temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and
actuators;
 The charge air temperature sensor and air-mass sensor;
 The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper;
 The glow plug;
 The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, any malfunctions detected
by the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system other than those related
to the transmission

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine
sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder
head, camshaft, and valve train.

I think the dieselgaters are the best deal out there in the used car market today. They get better highway mileage than any comparable car. Many former fans have turned on them or prefer ALHs. And the rest of the public who never really gave them a thought, has even less interest. The result is great prices.

It is a fantastic highway cruiser, reasonably fun in the twisties and 4 gear pulls on long highway uphills brings a smile to my face that no hybrid can match. And it is cavernous inside.

Do you have the DSG? 37 seems a bit low for mileage. I have been anywhere from 43-45, but it is largely interstate or lightly trafficed state 2 lane highway. On such roads with rolling hills and little traffic, I can easily exceed 50 mpg.

You in Ct, fat charlie?

On Rt 16, I suppose? I know it well. Grandparents lived in East Hampton.

I agree. TDIs used to hold their value so well that it made no sense to buy a 2-3 year old car. Now they are less than 50% of MSRP. We had a 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI with a 5 speed but when it came time to replace it in 2013 you could buy a lightly used Prius for way less than a TDI and the fuel is cheaper.

Ours is a DSG. We wanted a manual but of the 65 TDI Jetta sportwagens an the dealer lot only 1 was a manual. It had 130K miles and quite a bit a wear and tear. So we ended up with a DSG and other things we didn't want like the giant sunroof.

The TDI is my wife's primary car and most of the miles are from her commute to work. (7 miles / 6 traffic lights). I figure 37 mpg isn't bad considering city EPA is 29 mpg. On the longer trips we have taken I get low 40's loaded with 4 people and either camping or ski gear.

In September my Spark EV lease with end and I'll start driving the TDI on my 25 mile commute. The mpg should come up AND I'll don't like the idea of driving a diesel on a lot of short trips where it doesn't come up to operating temperature.

Your wife needs a bicycle. 7 miles is ideal bike commute distance. It is a terrible diesel commute.

SHORT commutes lead to EGR system failure, plugged DPF, P0401 Cel.

Don't ask me, look at the issues on the TDI forum.

She has a bike and occasionally, on perfect days, rides it to work.


I'm aware of that. That is why I will be driving the TDI come September.

On the bright side the EGR and DPF are warrantied until 120K miles. Ideally the DPF will plug up about 115K miles and be replaced under the dieselgate warranty.

We should have waited another year to get the TDI but I didn't know if they would still be available. They still are but selection is limited. My dealer only has 11 TDI Sportwagens today and only one with less than 50K miles.

Here in Englandland the fixed ones have been munching through EGRs like Hugh Heffer munched muff, and its caused a bit of an outcry among disgruntled owners. DPF regeneration issues leading to totally borked particulate filters has also arisen on the fixed cars, but not with the same regularity as the EGR problem.

I wouldn't touch one fixed or otherwise.

I read that to before I purchased my TDI but the EU has different engines, different emission standards and a different fix. The EU allows 60% more NOx per mile than the USA. The USA allow 163% more CO and 25% more PM

Regardless, my TDI is fully warrantied until it is 10 years old. At that point I'll be replacing it anyways. That is why I was willing to take the risk on the fix - it will be fully warrantied the entire time I own the vehicle.

This is my rationale. I will get a few years coverage, possibly more. After that, I suspect I will do some mods, if I can get away with it.

Emissions delete FtW! I suspect that it would get even better mileage with all that crap tossed in the scrap bin...

The air quality in my city is bad enough without me purposefully making it worse.

Ok, so Sunday I went online looking for fixed TDIs from the VW dealer with 4 motion. They didn't have any cars but low and behold they have 20 Touaregs. Monday went in and drove one and was blown away. So I'm getting one just a matter of exactly which one and what price. I was thinking of getting a compliance EV but we have none in our local market and also looked at a 2017 Volt they had but the TDI Touareg will be able to completely replace my Yukon XL rather than just be a 3rd car in the house like a Volt would be. Not to mention the VW is a good $5000 less and seems much nicer than a Volt. They have 2010s 11s and 12s. I think at first I wanted a 2010 but after driving and researching the model change, I think the 11s and 12s are quite an improvement. Anybody have any input on these things? I had been waiting for Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel to get to this $15k price point or even under $20k but they are more like $25-30 or more still.

Watch out for the AdBlue system...
 

My Dad had one of the V6 TDI Touaregs. He loved it until he got a check engine light related to the AdBlue system.

TL/DR: there's a cheap heater in the tank that fails, and if it does, and the AdBlue freezes, and the engine senses "no AdBlue injected into exhaust" for long enough, it will eventually ***PROHIBIT THE VEHICLE FROM RESTARTING*** until it gets told the right things by a programmer/gets fixed/other.

It pissed him off because he lived in Alabama where it never got cold enough to worry about freezing, but when he wanted to sell the vehicle he had to get that fixed because check engine lights scare buyers.

Aside from that, he loved the economy, it drove between Alabama and Minnesota with no issues, etc.

More detail below:
(cut and pasted from a doc I put together in September of 2014, so if you already know all this, sorry, I'm not re-editing it...)

TDI Tuareg 3.0L V6 AdBlue issues:

Okay, so your Check Engine Light is on, and the dealer says it needs an AdBlue Heater. Ask what code it is, Code P202A is the one that suggests a bad heater.

There are 3 heaters: Tank heater, Pump heater and Line heater. If the dealer can tell you which particular heater has failed – or if it is a sensor – that will help. The Tank Heater is likely sold as part of the Delivery Module - not a cheap part. The Pump Heater is part of the Pump - also an expensive part. The Line Heater has two sections, one inside the Delivery Module and one along the entire line going to the injector to the exhaust - unlikely to be sold separate from those parts, depending on which part is bad. It’s just nichrome wire wound around the lines, though, so a very simple part and unlikely to fail. Same tech as a toaster.

The heaters are only to keep the AdBlue from freezing in cold weather. If the weather never gets below +12F, the AdBlue won’t freeze, and the system should work normally – but the check engine light will stay on until the heater is fixed. If the AdBlue freezes, and you have no heater, the AdBlue won't be able to be pumped - the pressure won't build up (pump or tank heater or both). If it is the line heater, the line will freeze while driving in cold weather, blocking it. (The pump and a valve drain the line after you shut the engine off, so it doesn’t stay full and freeze in the line.) Either condition means the AdBlue won't be injected into the exhaust. If that happens, your NOx reduction catalyst will perform below specification - and the NOx sensor will let the computer know something is wrong. At this point (not sure if after 3 starts or right away), the AdBlue warning light comes on with the 600 miles until No Start countdown. If a code is checked, it may be Code P20E8 or Code P204F depending on whether it senses no pressure buildup or bad NOx performance first. Unfortunately, the AdBlue warning it displays looks just like the "low AdBlue level, fill it up now!" warning, so it can be hard to tell what is actually wrong.

<SAFETY WARNING>
In any case, if that warning comes on, watch the mileage countdown. You want to be heading to a VW dealer with a nearby hotel, or home, and be able to get there within the mileage countdown shown. If the countdown gets to 0, it will warn "NO RESTART", and it *means* it. IF IT GETS TO 0 MILES, DO NOT TURN OFF THE ENGINE UNLESS YOU ARE SOMEWHERE YOU CAN SLEEP SAFELY AND GET IT TOWED - IT WILL NOT START AGAIN. Yes, that means leaving the engine running while refueling, while going in to eat, while staying in a hotel overnight someplace you don’t want to tow it from, whatever. If you turn it off after the 0 mile warning shows up, the car is stuck at wherever it got turned off until it is towed to a VW dealer (or independent shop with the correct computers to work on the VW TDI system) for repair.
</SAFETY WARNING>

There was a *HUGE* rash of TDI VW issues in the northern/Polar Vortex areas this past winter - to the point that VW basically *grounded* all TDI's using AdBlue and gave every owner that had an issue a free rental for a few weeks while they got parts on order from Europe, etc. Apparently there is an updated heater available meant for, say, Northern Canada, and/or updated code available for the emissions control computer that makes it better able to deal with colder climates. You might have a warm-weather spec Touareg TDI, and your warm-weather heater failed.

You can run without the heater so long as it stays over +15F where the car is (AdBlue freezes at +12F, the heaters come on at +23F for pump and line, and +19F for tank heater). If you plan to drive up here this winter, fix it to avoid getting stranded if it freezes up on you and locks you out. If it is the line heater that has failed, freezing solid could bust the line, making for an even more $$ repair than currently. If it is a pump heater that has failed, freezing solid may have no effect, or may burn out the pump ($$). If the tank heater has failed, freezing solid should have no further damage effect on the system – the tank is designed to accommodate freezing. It just won’t thaw out, so no AdBlue injected, so it will eventually throw the AdBlue warning at you and potentially leave you stranded when it refuses to restart after the miles counts down to 0.

Additional AdBlue note: AdBlue is VW/Audi branded Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). You can buy DEF in gallon+ containers much cheaper at truck stops, WalMart, etc. and it all meets the ISO22241 standard. Some truck stops even have DEF pumps right by the diesel pumps! It will all work just the same. Do buy one of the small bottles of AdBlue from VW that has the "no spill" valve in the cap, use the bottle per the directions (IE, screw the top of the bottle to the DEF/AdBlue filler cap, press down, let bottle empty into tank, stop pressing, unscrew from tank) and then either remove the top from the bottle to refill it or cut the bottom out to use it as a big funnel to make using the gallon+ jugs easier.

Unrelated issue: Biodiesel. VW states that you can use up to 5% Biodiesel and not have an issue while keeping the 10,000 mile oil change interval. (always use "VW 507.00" approved/tested oil to avoid extremely expensive engine damage and voided engine warranty). Here in MN, we have B10 at the pump, which would potentially need 5,000 mile oil-change intervals. Check the pumps where you fill up. This is due to VW’s style of emissions control – they inject extra diesel with the main injectors so that this “wasted” fuel is shot down the exhaust to “run” the catalytic converters. This method causes fuel to build up in the engine oil, diluting it. Biodiesel does not evaporate as fast as regular diesel, so it builds up in the oil faster. B5 (5% Biodiesel) was tested by VW to show 45% oil dilution at 10,000 miles – the recommended oil change interval. Higher percentages of Biodiesel will dilute the oil faster. I can look up more on this if the pumps in your area use more than 5% Biodiesel.


Other codes/notes:

Relevant TSB 26 12 01: Check Engine Light on with code P202A, P20E8, P20B1
Code P202A: Reductant Tank Heater Control Unit Open Pending (a heater is bad)
Code P20E8: Reductant Pressure Too Low (can't build pressure, either low AdBlue, clogged line, bad pump, bad/stuck reverser valve, frozen AdBlue)
Code P20B1: ??
Code P204F: Reductant system performance (could be NOx sensor figuring out catalyst not working well)

Good thing is that part of the system (everything motor, turbo, exhaust, emissions) has a 4 year 46000 mile warranty from my purchase date (whenever that may be) or 10 years 120,000 miles from manufacturing whatever is longer. One of the ones I am leaning to is a 2012 with 68,000 miles on it. The dealer I'm working with also adds the lifetime powertrain as long as you do whatever VW preventative calls for for oil changes and transmission services at any ASE service center.

The egr system is used more in neutered cars and it uses coolant in a loop from the engine then through the cabin heater. This also tends to eat the heater core.

They were a really clean engine, but failed NOX in 'Murica in a technical fashion, making more that a same size gasser that they got classed in. Just don't get one that needs adblue.

It uses the DEF, my plan would be to keep it stock while it was under warranty and then tune and delete the EGR and DPF down the road if I kept it that long.

Hello again Hersbird,

Ah, if that part is actually covered (my Dad's wasn't, IIRC, and it was not out of warranty as far as I know - he didn't keep it as long as he usually does. I can't help but think he would not have been so annoyed if it had been covered.) then you're good at least on the cost front. Do note the warning about the AdBlue though, if it is empty or doesn't work right (according to what the sensors tell the engine computer, anyway - and it can tell if you used something other than AdBlue!) it'll eventually give you a 600 mile countdown timer to no-restart.

Oh, and I don't recall exactly whether that particular engine has the issue, but there's something picky about the oil specification - if the TDI you get is one of the picky ones, not using the right VW oil spec (not a regular industry spec, a one-off like GM's Dexos or whatever) it eats the cam or something.

Aside from all that, it should be a great distance-cruiser tow-beast! I was interested in the previous model that still had low range (through 2009 IIRC) but it's hard to find the diff locks in the US and, more importantly, my primary commute is 11 miles one way, which isn't great for a diesel in winter.

the DEF system is definitely part of the emissions warranty they extended. Basically anything to do with keeping the NOx where it was supposed to be is covered. Even Bosch the supplier of the computer was tagged with paying $1500 to each owner part of the settlement because their computer permitted the cheating. (although I'm not positive the computer is actually covered, I think it is)

They do have 4 of the 2010s that were the older style with low range (none with diff locks or the air suspension). That is what I thought I wanted too until I drove the newer version. Dropping that low range dropped 400 pounds off the car and the old transmission and trasfer case were a couple of the problem areas. I think the new 8 speed is a heavy duty Aisin. From a transmission supply shop, "It is the most powerful of modern RWD Aisin transmission capable of transmitting the torque up to 800 Nm (590 ft-lbs)" although I know they also have a massive Aisin optional on the latest Cummins Rams that must be better as those things put out 1000 ft-lbs stock.
According to the EPA the 2011 gets 2mpg (almost 10%) combined better than the 2010. It just feels tighter as well, and both I tested had the same 94,000 miles on them.

I should hopefully have a normal 8 hour day tomorrow and go actually make a deal. I've been working past when the dealership is open all week! Good for paying for a car, bad for actually having time to get in.

EDIT: I noticed you are looking at the 3.0L TDI

So nevermind but I will leave the rest in cause someone else it looking for a Golf, Jetta, Beetle, or Passat

VW didn't add DEF to the 2.0L TDI until the 2015 model year. The 2015 has a different fix and a longer warranty than the 2009-2014s

From VW:

The Approved Emissions Modification Extended Warranty period for 2009-2014 model year vehicles will be the greater of:

(a) 4 years or 48,000 miles, whichever comes first, from date and mileage of implementing the Emissions Modification, except for vehicles offered for resale, in which case from the date and mileage of the first resale transaction after the modification to the first person who in good faith purchases the vehicle for purposes other than resale, or

(b) 10 years or 120,000 actual miles from the initial date of purchase (whichever comes first).

For 2015 model year vehicles, the warranty period will be the greater of:

(a) 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR

(b) 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of Phase 1 of the emissions modification. At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of the completion of Phase 2.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/2-0-models/

the oil being picky is a result of the dpf and the 10,000 mile change intervals. a couple of people on the TDI forum use Rotella but change at 3,000 miles. there is another oil that is claiming 30,000 between changes with excellent analysis returns.

I did get a 2012 Touareg Sport with Nav with 74,000 miles. It has the 4 year 48,000 warranty from today and also includes free DEF fills during that period as well. They also gave me a lifetime powertrain warranty assuming I do the 1 yrs 10,000 mile oil changes with an ASE mechanic and whatever other prescribed preventative maintenance VW calls for in the manual. I'll probably just let them, the VW dealer do the changes as they are only a little over $100 once a year and the special oil and filter cost $90/change alone anyway. It was $18,190 after everything. It is pretty much flawless with brand new Pirelli tires so I'm happy.

Well I made it 26 hours and 25 miles and got a CEL! Honestly I was kind of expecting this as some of these have been sitting in those massive parking lots not run for 2+ years. But my car was only bought back in June of this year and fixed in late August. Anyway the code is an injector contribution imbalance on #5. They will probably just try and clean it, light came on after leaving a restaurant this evening but I thought it had a bit of surging going on with the cold start this morning.

Good news is it was getting 25mpg average pure city according to the factory lie o meter for that 25 miles, that's better than my Forester ever did, or any other car I have ever had.

I will start a garage on ecomodder for this car, it's the first car I've had that seemed worthy. Plus with the EPA down-rating (19 city, 22 comb, 26 highway) I can probably beat that pretty easily.

Quote: "...Plus with the EPA down-rating (19 city, 22 comb, 26 highway) I can probably beat that pretty easily."

Wow. Is that what the EPA-happy-diesel VW's are now rated at?

The 2012 Touareg TDI was originally rated at 19 city / 28 highway

Not bad for a 5,000 lb CUV that runs 0-60 in 6.9 seconds.

IMHO you need to call Malone and load a custom tune.

I'd love to, but with free adblue and everything covered warranty for at least 4 years, I'm just keeping it the way VW and the US Government made it. At least for that 4 years...