LCD vs CRT ranting
 

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ADMIN NOTE: this discussion split from thread http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ity-34022.html

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Camera already have better light sensibility, or even night vision.

Digital screens for other side... Did I told you I refuse to watch movies on LCD or LED LCD backlight TVs ?
Slim TVs killed my home movie entertainment. For me digital broadcast, at least in my country, it's a piece of crap, artefacts everywhere, detail loss, blur, banding instead of a natural degrade. This plus the garbage TVs itself, with motion blur due refreshing rate problems, problem with games due response time, angle view creating noticeable problems even in 10 degree (at least for me), venter bright than edges even if look 90 degree front, images got clipped for highlights and crushed for shadow, and if you try to reduce contrast to avoid it the image get pale and dull.

It's like they homologate the TV and PC mnitor screen to a same contrast standarts. The first PC DVD kits had faded image on computer monitor, due difference contrast standarts from video made for TV and contrast of PC screens, and if we tried adjust contrast/brightness setting on software the whites tended to clipp and shadows tendency was to crush. now both displays (TV and PC monitor) have the same, I presume, and all films look faded if not adjusted to clipp whites and crush shadows. And I refuse to watch images with destroyed dynamic range.
I refuse to watch it... And the advertises call such garbage of perfect image. I quit watch TV, that's it, digital technology destroyed television for me.

I was banned from Home Theater Forum for make complains and spot the lies of this industry.
I no longer watch films/movies, cause there is no good displays for salle, just garbage LCD/LEDs. I only watch clips on youtube, and even so not on full screen, just just a small window, cause full screen do not have a even image, since the edges are darker and the center are brighter.

LCD TVs it's one of the things I hate more in this world. I really hate it..I'm a LCD hater, I confess... and bad video compression hater...

Yeah buddy I hear that, a good old CRT is the way to go. Reliability good quality picture, and sound, all in one console. Why do we need lightweight TV'S?? Who TF moves a TV aroundhttps://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2018/04/03/9adf6681-8772-436e-8778-f977df316fe8.jpg

Yep, the switch to computers lead to new security problems. I would not want a society with too much computer control, we just need to get our humans in line. :(

CRTs also give off lots of EMF, which leads to cancer.

The "white holes" on face of actor in LCD TVs, where in CRT it was just bright areas and not white flat holes. The poor shadow rendering. The large square blocking in darker areas, the fine details (wrinkles,lines texture) vanishing evereytime anything it's not stead unmove... For me this is a deeply mess technology, a piece of s..., a lie. I boycott it, just that.
It's like some samurai temple thing, where the best fermented soy went to the best warrior, or richier... The TVs don't work for sofa in all seats, an even for the watcher notice some center of screen brighter and are darker then center.

A TV station technician confessed all that was there, there it was way no match to good Blu Ray (1080p) discs... Bad compression, poor bitrate, poor HD cameras. But other technician, not from TV, but one that went here... I confess I wanted to punch hin, since he just offended my intelligence saying like if the horrible image was normall. A image so poor in details like a S-VHS and plus the banding and artefacts, and he telling it was this way because it was not 4K. The withe holes cleary, and he saying it was the TV studio lights. And the worse of all, he telling that the heavy artefacted image had no video compression.

My relatives got a 4K 50 inch LED TV, and I prefer to watch a 20 inch CRT over that garbage. It's true, I can't stand in front of the 4K LED, it make me sick, revolted, I can't stand it, it's a torture and drive me nuts, revolted, deeply revolted. It's worse in all aspects, all, except resolution. And even resolution it's a lie, since during motion you have blur from compression (in terms caused also by bad decoding processin and not just encoding compression bitrate) and the blur from refreshing rate problems. So it's a entire lie in all aspects.

I don't uinderstand why people accept be made of fools, and there is no long CRT for sale. It's a holocaust of video entertainment. They finished it and replaced with garbage.
I can't understand why this holocaust of dynamic range and holocaust of natural degrade happened without people complain. I will never watch a movie in a LCD/LEDbacklight screen. NEVER!!!

There is no evidence to substantiate that claim, meaning there is no statistical health significance between high levels of CRT exposure and a control.

Because it used to cost $600 on sale to get 19" of VGA viewing. The display would take forever to turn on, consume a lot of electricity, and when you finally did want to get rid of the thing, you had to pay an extra disposal fee.

I've got 2x 24" monitors that take up no desk space, very little electricity, and look good enough to do my work, and they cost $100 each.

You can get OLED displays with excellent dynamic range, but those cost a lot still.

My main TV is still a plasma from 8 years ago. I'll probably skip LCD and go straight to OLED once they come down in price. Either that, or TVs will go away and VR will replace it.

Eventually visual signals will be produced directly in the optic nerve without any screen or light source. This could approach the resolution and refresh capabilities of the brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dHSV4MazRU

Ref Permalink 200: Or like:

"The Machine Stops" by E. M. Forster (November 1909)

Have we forgotten already? :confused:

edit: I've got one of these (with the remote control). I should see if it still boots up:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...cintosh_TV.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_TV

I had a Color Computer 2 (TRS-80) all my life, but I didn't know it could be programmed until I was 16 years old. My dad is technologically handicapped, so up until then I thought the computer was a video game console only capable of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZPrFT0xoEE

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/f0...9ed9796f7b.jpg

When I was a kid we had a TI 99/4A. I remember my sister going through the owner's manual and changing colors and stuff.

Who reads the manual?! :)

Dad bought an XT in 1989, so this was before that.

I sure hope that is true. I spent a lot of time in front of crts, even a tv so big it had three in it.

I was a CRT holdout for a long time, but truth be told, when I finally switched, I never looked back. CRTs are fuzzy, flicker, and when compared with a high quality panel IPS or -VA panel, don't render colors as accurately. They were also more expensive (both to purchase and ship) and power hungry. Certainly if you buy cheap garbage LCD panels you'll be disappointed, but it's not true to say that the technology is inferior. Perhaps not better in every sense, but better in enough ways that matter.

A good CRT, like Trinitron progressive, up to DVD SD resolution, flat screen, it's great.

IPS it's a scam, the same s..., the center still brighter if look by close, and if look by angle (even 20 degree) the whole screen get darker. Still have motion blur (more than non IPS) killing details even in motions quite slow.

The Samsung 4K TV I refer to hate and have desire to explode with a missile, have reviews on amazon.com as 4 or 5 stars, mostly.
All LCD?LED/IPS screen I saw in my life was a garbage. All destroys contrast and create white holes in the face of actors, and creates crushed shadows. If you turn contrast setting to low and adjust brightness, to reduce this disgusting abominable effect genocider of dynamic range, the image get dull, grey and faded or dark.
All LCD panels, no matter if LED backlight, IPS or whatever, have these garbages to make angry. I will never accept such screen to watch a movie in my life !!!

Lety me tell you something, how LCD destroid my movie enjoying life.

First was the frustration and hate when the DVD appeared. The first PC DVD Kit, a garbage look on PC computer monitor (CRT), faded, and got clipped whites if we tried to adjust ciontrast. But on TV (CRT) it looked glossy and with good dynamic range. Nobody was able to excplain me why a PC monitor (CRT back then) was a s... to watch on CRT computer monitors, and at the same time was ok for a CRT TV. Even people that worked on a Effets compoany couldn't explain me it, just just had many theories.
Today I know TV CRT and computer monitor CRT are different, one made for high contrast video signals and the other made for high contrast signals.
BMP and good JPG images was ok on computer monitor, but video signals made for TV looked faded and dull, despite be good if watched in a CRT TV.

But even on TV many DVD had digital artefacts, despite be advertised as perfect image. It pissed me off too. The cable signed sat system, the first one in my country, when started had few channel and with times the image only get worse and worse, with more artefact while morew channel was added to the systyem. Today it looks similar a JPEG made with to worse compression possible, giant artefacts on creen. And the tecnicia, which I desire to punch on face, had the courage to tell me it was this way because it was not 4K.

I got tired and tired of people came to me and said. "Now there is a digital TV with HD image, quality". And everytime I would check it was a piece of garbage. Then people come again : "Now there is wide angle view." And I checked again only only saw distortions even at 10 degreee or less, despite the f... manufacturer claim to have almost 180 degree (or almost 90 if you measure from the middel/front) angle view.
Then came IPS, and people told me : "This new feature make the image even at all angles". And I checked and once again found crap garbage, distortions, a hoax, screen get darker and I noticed it even at 10 degree or less.

And not just the LCD itself it'as all garbage, no matter the type of LCD panel, but they changed the contrast standart of TV to homologate with computer monitor screen standart, since they creat the "Smart"TVs to surf on web. Now the TVs have the garbage contrast standart thet anoyed me when the PC DVD kits come.
In other words, it have everything I hate.

Even the HDR it's crap, looking like a extended dynamic range, and also have clipped whites. AND WORSE !!! it only works to HDR video. It's quite they were trying to compensating for the holocaust of dynamic range made by LCDs, and created something to try compensate it but that only works on HDR videos. So it's just another scam/hoax.

If someone give me (gift) a 70 inch HDR 4K IPS TV, I do not accept. I would give it to a school, to a university, or try to sell. If they give and say that for accept I would be required to make a elogy to the model, like in front of a camera, I would refuse.
I just can't accept hoax, big lies.

4K it's a hoax too, compression kill details, and motion blur induced by TV fails kill details too,m so if you had a mosaic made of many images from 380/260 pixels, forming a 16:9 4K image (as a mosaic) on the big screen, and would cut one of the little image to chack the resolution, it would be way inferir to a prime SP speed VHS recorded from a uncomopressed source.

Even if the comrpession did not killed details (let's supose just as a exampel to think), and even if TV motion blur did not killed too, you would need to sit very close to the screen to see the fine details of 4K. And if you sit close enough to see all details you will see a f... screen center a lot brighter then the medion and edge portions of the creeen.

And the crazy people on Japan come to talk about 8K for LCD screen... It's a joke, just a joke.
Even worse, more than 75% of movies are finished in 2K, and they convert, interpolate the image to create 4K blu rays. ANother f... hoax, lie, lack of shame on face.

That's why I was banned, because they could not stand me posting unmasking all the crap lies of home video industry, since they probable get money from some brands to keep to forum.

I don't understand people, like they were blind... A relative placed a Samsung Synchmaster TV monitor on computer, and connected a LCD TV-Monitor (monitor and TV on same device) on it, and had by side a good CRT TV. Both were displaying the same channel, a soccer game, or something like. The CRT was ok, good density, good saturation, good brightness, without crushed shadows and without clipped whites. The LCD was a garbage, grey, dull, lifeless, soft in detais (lacking sharpeness) but the relatrive insisted it was good, even if side by side the difference was overwelming, shouting difference, and insisted thast was a matter to adjust setting, but no adjust was possible to turn the LCD watchabble, since it got worse and worse. Any contrat setting made it more gray or with clipped whites (more or less contrast adjust), and brightness just made if darker or whitened (like airbrush transparent whie paint). Minuites runned and there he was, unable to get a watcheable image, but insisting the LCD was a good technology.
This same relative told me didn't saw artefacts on the 4K Samsung 50 LCD TV, even with some artefacts larger than may open hand.

Sometimes I feel insde a Twilight Zone series episode made up just to upset me, like in a alternative reality where people was blind, or color blind, or blind to dynamic range.
You don't know how this is... It's horrible.... Maybe people in my country are just used with garbage quality, since most things here are garbage.

Even if I was rich to afford a OLED TV (a fortune on Brasil) I would not. It have burning in effect, and it also have motion blur. It life spam it's just 50% of average TVs and the price it's more the twice of other TVs. So it's like 4 times worse in this matter.
And it have limited light intensity.

So I keep my position, there is no longer a good display to watch films. I challenge any manufactures on the world to show me a decent screen.
Quantum dots are satil a kind of LCD, still distort, still creat motion bluer, still have center brighter than edges and still have distortion or darker look if turn just 10 or 15 degree.

And anyway all broadcast of digital signal on Brazil, without exception, are garbage, with many artefacts and loss of detail due crap compression, banding and largr blocks in darck scenes. And guess what, the signed sat TV, the most expansive, it's the worst of all, sometimes even worse than VHS . MGM Gold HD was presenting the remake of Mad Max, and in scenes with motion (action) was worse than VHS.

Even I there was a decent screen (let's supose there was), for what I would use it ? To watch ritch bitrate 4K Blu Rays only ? Blu Rays that are a mostly hoax, interpolations of 2K...

And don't forget that grain reduction, specially the low cost ones used in many old and granier films, disolves a lot of image details and fine textures.

Wall o' text.

What's it have to do with Teslas crashing (again).

If it makes you feel any better, I won a 42" LCD TV this year, and I immediately gifted it away to a stranger. Already have a 60" plasma, and can't watch 2 TVs at once.

Gine me a minute to find a excuse...

2 minutes later... Well tesla have LCD screens. Somewhere I bet it have ... :p

Ok, I appologise for that long text. Adminstration already moved it away. Sorry for that, I was steaming off.

My hero ... :thumbup:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n3IMf1k8YLA/maxresdefault.jpg


But Plasma will create burn in effect if you watch much movies with black bar to fit rastio aspect.

Energy consume it's a Hoax. People had 20 or 29 inch CRT TVs, and replaced it with 50 inch LCD. The 50 inch LCD took as much or even more energy, and if it's a 4k, the processor and everything took even more The 4K LEd Tv 50 inch I refered as wished to explode with a missele, took 200W, and the old 29 inch trinitron took just 100W.

I noticed how bad CRTs were - resolution wise - when I picked up a SNES Classic. I thought the graphics great when I was a kid...now they make me laugh...or scoff. They were perfect on a CRT at the time, though.

Even DVDs look like crap these days. Give me HD or give me death!

(PS: Buy a good TV and you won't have to put up with motion blur/pixilation)

Old video games are much better on a CRT, display lag is real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYFYfbtvcvI

I have had image burn in due to my static Windows desktop appearing too long, but I use a screensaver now. I never watch content with black bars, so that hasn't been an issue, and my screen saver will eventually reduce the burn in effect if it happens.

Electricity consumption likely has gone down for most households who switched to LCD, because despite the larger screen and light output, it is way more energy efficient. A CRT monitor is roughly twice the power consumption of a similar sized LCD, and local dimming LED backlighting makes them even more efficient.

My plasma is a bit of an energy hog at 200 watts average, but it's a bright 60" screen.

I haven't researched OLED, but I assume it is very efficient since it produces the desired color and intensity in the individual pixels (additive color) rather than filter out the undesired colors and intensity like LCD(subtractive).

I agree that LCD is not ideal, but I don't think it will be around too much longer anyhow.

Black burns in?! :)

Well, you could always read a book instead :-)

While I don't watch TV (and in fact have never owned one), I do have a 21" (or maybe 23"?) CRT display out in the shed. It's about 3 feet long, and weighs maybe 50 lbs. To use it, I had to move my desk a couple of feet away from the wall, and even then it was blurry and I'd get headaches from watching the video scan line zip back and forth.

The LCD displays that I have now are slim, and text, graphics, and colors are far better than any CRT I've ever seen. While I don't do video, I do some fairly complicated visualization stuff. I don't see any artifacts of the sort you describe. I suspect most of them are not the fault of the display technology, but of trying to compress high-definition video to fit through low-bandwidth channels.

Old video games, VHS, even DVD if the CRT have good resolution and progressive scan.
Interpolated videos (if not in HD) always looks better on CRT.
Betamax looks better too (since it's similar to Super VHS), and many TV shows recorded in SD resolution.

Videophiles will still find reason to complain. Ever display a "black" screen on an LCD in a dark room and notice how much light it's throwing out? A black screen should produce zero light. The other digital image quality issues you describe are due to compression. Stuff like smoke and fog usually look bad to me in digital form.

I'm happy where technology has gone. I can clearly see individual players in a football game compared to the old analog broadcast TV where you couldn't read their names on the jersey.

CRT is dead, plasma for some reason too, and next will be LCD, likely to be replaced by OLED.

I like that you are open to learning (even though it increases your disgust at the people surrounding you). How about this: STOP WITH THE TOP-POSTING. We have to read what you're going on about and then connect it back to the quote after the fact.

Quote first and then comment. Okay?
______

My 128K Macintosh with a B&W 9" CRT drew 15watts. That's night-light territory. It imprinted info on the light it emitted for basically free.

edit: I used to be bothered by the sound of the 15.734 kHz (for NTSC) flyback frequency, now I just have tinnitus at that pitch. :(

I saw 10.000:1 ratio and 1000.000:1 ratio for contrast, and see little difference. They have shinning blacks too.
And the very high contrast ration od LED backlight display have a poor resolution for the LEDs ligth, since the LED size it's much larger than LCD pixel size.

For me shining blacks are little thing compared to crushed shadows, when the tones near black became black, transforming shadow details into a black cardboard. Just repulsive... in the same way white clipping it's respulsive and created whitle holes in any reflex in the face of a actor. Calibration it's useless, bullsh... talk, since if you calibrate the LCD to avoid crushed shadows and clipped whites, the image get faded, lifeless.

Contrast ratio ≠ high dynamic range, or gamma.

Still top-posting, I see. It's a hard habit to break.

I know... WHy did you imagined I said the oposity ?

Contrast ratio refers just to the ability of display the blackest pixels as possible. Dynamic range it's more about the hability to display high difference from black to white, and is measured in stops.

Dynamic range it's 100 times more important than contrast ratio.

Welp, All Darc has cursed me.

Wife came home and turned the TV on. She went to change the channel and the TV lost signal. Looks like the HDMI board has gone out, as the HTPC also isn't displaying. I've run component and RGA cables in the meantime to get TV back for the wife, but it isn't looking promising.

I bought this 60" plasma about 7 years ago for $1,000. Too soon for it to die, but I might have to replace it with a nice LCD :p

First I'll try removing the video board and reinstall it to see if it's just a loose connection. Next I'll try a solder reflow in the oven. If neither bring it back to life, I'll free it away on CL to someone who is OK with component only inputs.

LCD never... Never to watch entire films on full screen. Just short clips in a small window on the center of the monitor. I can't stand more than that.

I forgot one thing. One more reason to wish to blown up The Samsung 4K 50 inchs garbage is the fact the light it's not even, like I can see some brs, soft but noticeable, of less intensity. It became obvious in very bright sky scenes taking more than 30% of screen, or if I load a JPG image made of a entire flat white.

I never hated someting (object) as much in my entire life. I really hate it...
It's so garbage, despite have 5 star on Amazon.com, that the decoding processing of it generates banding and artefacts, for 4K video, even if the scene was recorded with camera stopped, just small thing moving on screen. Even a video that I got from a TV manufacturer Demopage for 4K, a video with 1GB for just 90 seonds, have all these artefacts and banding. If 1GB for only 90 seconds can't make it free from artefacts and banding, I don't even want to see what a air broadcast (poor bitrate) would look like.

I would like to see this TV broked & smashed piece by piece and burned. And ashes trown ways in toilet. No kidding...

OOPS... the family's curse reached you...
My family it's cursed by something... everything we bought get wrong, broken or works bad... Every service hered go into sh...

But the funny is that the curse wasn't supose to work this way with you, supporting my quotes. It was suposed to freak me just to make me angry. Like some device that didn't work in some times but worked in others, just to make me appear as full to technicians, and technicians to say I was wrong and that have anyting wrong with a given device.

So the curse was a bit more benevolent with me this time. Good for me but worse for you. Sorry.

If it's an edge connector, use a clean pencil eraser on the contacts.

Is top-posting some sort of voodoo? Should we storm Brazil and make him pay [/jk]

My fall-back screen is a Sony MFM-HT95 which apparently dates to 2006. I picked it out of a row of monitors because it was noticeably brighter that the others, due to a screen coating they have. It has TV functions I've never used.

Primary is an Apple 23" monitor that came second-hand with a Mac Mini. It puts the Sony screen in the shade.

edit:
Maybe it's a mutant super power. Did you think of that? Probably not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromacy

Cultural, perhaps:confused: Although CripleRooster doesn't top post.

I was hoping this day would come later, when there was significant improvement in the technology over my plasma and I wouldn't mind "upgrading".

What do you think of OLED? The cheapest models I can find run about $1,300 USD for a refurbished 65" display. I'm certainly not going to settle for a smaller TV, but I also don't want to spend too much.

https://slickdeals.net/f/11406927-re...archBarV2Algo1

Voodoo for human would require a piece of hair or something, to make a voodoo doll model of hin. In this case of TV I would need some piece of his TV.
So I'm innocent. ;-)

OLED have motion blur too. It's more expensive (in my counry it's double the price of LCD at least or more) and lifespam it's 50% of LCD models, making it 4x worse in terms of cost per year of TV life.
It can generate burn-in effect, specially if used as monitor for PC or to watch movies with black bars.
And the display have not much light intensity capability.

So it's still not good for me. Even if was, the TV Broadcast here on Brazil use garbage video compression, killing details. The sat signed TV it's the worse of all, with MGM Gold HD channel with some modern films looking worse then prime VHS for the motion scenes. Netfix is "less worse", but still bad enough to me hate it, since any scene that it's not fully bright like a Disney TV series for teens, get artefacts and blocks in mediun and dark scenes.

I never saw a decent digital image transmission on Brazil. Never !!!

Even the digital decoder adapter/converter for analogic TVs it's a garbage. It make the image signal came out ot the device already with white clipping, so even if I turned the CRT TV contrast to zero, the tones near white keep clipped since the decoder converter make the signal this way.
It's like they thought in everyting possible to anoy me, even in the choices of fixed setting of the digital converter adapter. The enginers who created it hate me.

I've got a 5 year old, 720p, plasma tv and i think it looks great. The stock color settings suck, but with enough work, they can be quite good.

Apparently used plasmas are going for a small fortune, so maybe I'll give it my best effort to fix my TV, or maybe just live with composite inputs. Not sure I'm willing to spend $1,300 on a technology that isn't clearly better than plasma.

So say we all. ;)

I think your reaction is fascinating. Have you done experiments like viewing in a mirror, through polarized filters, etc. How do you do with film at a 24fps shutter speed?

Projectors? Apple's Retina display?

Are there other examples of technology that "progressed" into versions that performed worse in multiple categories? EVs come to mind with phenomenally expensive "gas tanks" that take ages to fill, and must be filled at progressively slower rates, that grow smaller over time.

I'm convinced now not to own an LCD TV. I've won one and gave it away, and currently own a technology that is sought after, plasma, and don't want to replace it with inferior technology. That said, LCD panels are dirt cheap these days. I can get a 65" 4k LCD for $450.

I bought Mom a 32" 720p TV and she never uses it. Her Siko TV is full HD, but that seems to be its only redeeming quality.

My dad has bought in 2011 a 32-inch LED TV that stopped working for no reason last November, so I simply bought a digital converter and resumed using an old 5.5-inch black-and-white portable CRT TV that I bought in 2010. Well, even when I already had that 32-inch LED POS, I still used the 5.5-inch CRT from late 2014 to early 2016 when my dad bought a wall-mounted support for the LED TV which is now simply hanging from a wall in my bedroom gathering dust.


When Philips still made CRT TVs, it has claimed that some of its 14-inch ones was the best to use in bedrooms. Well, I really don't understand why not making them with integrated digital converters like the flat TVs have.


Just annex Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, São Paulo and Mato Grosso do Sul, deport all the commies to Venezuela and Cuba, and call it an epic day :D

My 27” Trinitron uses about 35 watts,
My roommates 36” LCD uses about 40 watts

I’m not sure that “power” hungry is universally accurate,
Because a lot of folks buy an 80” lcd they are using more power than if they had a smaller classic CRT

In 2006 I replaced this 21" Trinitrton (~19.8" actual) with a 24" MVA panel from BenQ:

https://www.cnet.com/products/sony-c...-series/specs/

Power consumption dropped from 145w to 95w. I still have that screen floating around, but it looks like garbage these days, despite being the holy grail of screens around the turn of the century.

Last year I replaced my ~11 year old BenQ MVA LCD with a 27" IPS panel in a Dell Ultrasharp 27" and reduced power consumption down to ~35w, presumably because of a switch from CCFL to LED backlighting.