Low power office computer?
 

I am looking for some suggestions on possible upgrades. My wife has an old quite inefficient computer setup that she has been using. It is an Athlon X3 455 which has a 95W TDP. The thing sucks down over 100W at idle and 200W loaded. It performs fine for her, but I am casually looking to upgrade it. There are now 10W TDP chips that are quite a bit faster haha. Increased speed isn't a huge priority, but power consumption is. I've been looking at some of the mini PCs that run the Celeron J4105 or J4125. These are both 10W processors. Even an Athlon 200GE would be a sizable upgrade with its 35W TDP.

So, I am looking for suggestions. I am quite comfortable building the computer. I'd actually prefer some older used hardware if possible like the Lenovo M93P which sports a I5-4570T 35W TDP, but that's not an absolute. I am also open to other solutions, but it has to run Windows 10 as that is what she is used to.

I've got an older Intel (i3 I think) mini tower I'm not using and would send it your way if you'd like. I need to power it up to get the specs because I've forgotten. I think it idled at 20w (I'll measure it).

My general recommendation is to run a laptop and just hook up external displays and keyboard/mouse because they are designed to be power efficient. I might have a spare laptop too that is about 5 years old.

I followed redpoint5's strategy until the laptop died. I don't suggest you follow my current strategy, but for a point of comparison....

A $70 Raspberry Pi 4 draws 3.4W at idle and 7.6W under load. It displays Youtube videos with no problems, some programs I'd like to run (Blender) require Python libraries not available on the default OS. Biggest knock is a system clock is an add-on board.

I've seen mini-PCs with Windows 10 in the $150 price range, but I don't care enough to find an example. The key to low power is the ARM processor. My preferred solution is the Apple Mac Mini (with the ARM M-1). Yesterday I took $700 out of the credit union and went to the Apple store in the East University next to the Duck store. They're on back order for 4-6 weeks. :(

Amazon wants the business, but I need a brick and mortar solution, because I found a post from Malaysia that said they found Minis manufactured in Malaysia and in China. I'm Okay with the former but not the latter.

Redpoint, shoot me a PM with the specs. I am interested.

The only issue with the ARM processors is its not x86 which doesn't allow it to run Windows natively and there is a decent performance hit to emulate it.

I do like the idea of the CHUWI Larkbox Pro and similar boxes. Seems like a great solution, but virtually no upgradability. Its an option.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1613761408

I sympathize with people who live in Microsoft's world. I spent years helping them, editing their registries over the phone to remove viruses that Norton Utilities couldn't.

I know you can live without a command line interface, but it doesn't make you your best person. (awkward phrasing. deal)

I think Linux is closer to Windows than is the Mac OS. Every time I want to copy or paste, I still hold down what should be the Command key and all it does is drop a menu in the menu bar. :( So I click off that and use Ctrl.

I've never given a dollar to Microsoft in all these years, just fine; but now Bill Gates wants to inject something directly into my body. :eek:

Haha, I hear you about mr Gates... Alas, its hard to do business avoiding his systems.

The other option that I am really liking is the Asrock ITX boards with integrated Celeron chips. Their price is very reasonable and it would pop right into her case.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/J4105-ITX/

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1613765102

I built a buddy a cheap PC using a Lenovo M93p...it orginally came with a tiny power supply - 100, 150, at most 200w. Was nice and quick with an SSD and 16gb of ram thrown in it, neither of which would cause more power draw. (The big ass video card was a whole other matter).

Have an 11" netbook/laptop with one of those 10w celerons in it...it's faster than my old Athlon x4 for everyday tasks.

I remember plugging my watt meter in to test my current rig...the processor and video card are rated at drawing a fair bit, but it averaged ~150w under typical, moderate use, and not much over 200 being punished. And that's with monitor and everything else plugged in to the same power bar. (Idling, monitor off, I think it was all of 50 watts).

I think the power brick for my wife's 6th or 7th gen i5 is only rated for 45 watts, and it's pretty darned quick for every day tasks.

Anyway, there are plenty of cheap options that will get a much better rig than an old Althlon x3, and almost all of them will be more efficient.

I've probably bought MS Flight sim before, and perhaps some other games. I prefer their mice and had a sidewinder joystick.

I consider Windows to be roughly the halfway point between ease of use and open architecture, with Linux being very flexible and Mac being extremely inflexible.

Turns out my tower idles at about 35 watts. It has an i5-3570K quad core processor.

It has 8GB RAM, and I'd probably put my smaller 128GB SSD in it.

I've also got a Lenovo G410 I could probably part with. It was the last computer my grandfather bought before he died 3 years ago. It has an i5-420M CPU and 6GB RAM. It has a 120GB SSD. I keep thinking I need to fire up MIRC and see if anyone is wondering where he went... but it's been 3 years now.

Powering down things and headed to freebeard's neck of the woods for a late night of work. I'll be back there again Monday morning.

Should I put a candle in the window?

...or a taco. What are your preferred take-outs (or eat on streets)? Lunch is on me if we can make it work one of these days.

I got a cheap atom ("Celeron" quad core) NUC with 16 gb SODIMMs (already had) and a 512gb SSD... It's more than enough for an office computer.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-boxnuc6...9SIAD6HB4A4712

$200, add your own ram/hdd, and it has a 15w TDP. Iirc it idles around 7-8w, running all out it hits 25w or so.

Alternately, for my media/gaming machine in the living room, I used an AMD 2400g (now there's now a 3400g update). 65 watt TDP including pretty solid 3d performance and quad core/8 thread. AMD also makes a 3400ge they sell to oems only that has the same specs but a 35w TDP.

But for a cheap, energy saving office machine, you can't really beat the NUC.

Coburg Pizza on Olympic (in Spfld not Coburg) has a single slice of pizza for ~$5 each day before 3pm. Best $5 lunch IMHO.

They had the dining room open for a while, but it closed again.

Ended up at the McMenemins on High St. Mediocre food, but you go for the atmosphere. Their "outdoor" seating was nice. Did a little catching up with my good friend.

Traveling and seeing my customers are my favorite part of work, which I guess means I made the right decision to not pursue programming beyond high school.

My least favorite job in the world would be a salesman, go figure.

I've been hobby fixing up several computers and even smartphones. Lots of people just throw perectly good computers away and there are lots of people who need computers right now. Here are a few thoughts.

For myself I use a 128GB Surface Go, which is pretty low wattage. Right now I'm using between 0.9 and 1.9W to write this. Of course that doesn't include charging and battery losses. Oh, I just hit 2.1W momentarily! I also have a dock which is hooked up to two more monitors, two printers (one with a scanner) and a Blu-ray/DVD/CD player/burner as well as several USB splitters. I'm not sure what my whole setup uses though.

The lowest power consumption devices are ARM based right now, although I'm sure there are some that use more than my Surface Go. There are the new M1 Macs that are ARM based. Any Android or iOS (iPadOS) devices are ARM based. There are also Windows-on-ARM laptops that are pretty low wattage.

But there's also reasons not to go the portable route. A lot of the desktop computers I've gotten are over 10 years old, or close to that. But for the most part I've picked them up for free. I usually get ones that have, or can be, upgradeable to a CORE i7. I throw some 16GB of RAM in them and an SSD. On a few of them I have needed to buy Windows 10, but Windows 7 and up are upgradeable to 10 for free still. Once all that's been done these old computers blow the doors off of my fairly new Surface GO in terms of performance.

The point is that portable computers, like laptops, tablets and smartphones, while using less power, are also more disposable, so end up costing more in the long run. Most things are soldered nowadays on these devices, so no upgrades or repairs. And since they are portable they tend to wear out faster. Don't expect a smartphone to last more than 5 years. But I'd be willing to bet that if you get a cheap desktop and it might last 20 with the way things are going.

The problem is it's kind of hard finding a combination between the two, a low power setup and a repairable/upgradeable desktop form factor. I did find this high efficiency (35W TDP) CPU and motherboard combo but I don't think the CPU is upgradeable on it. That might shorten it's usuable life.

Also, actual hard drives, while slower, can actually outlast SSD's, especially in a desktop. If you get a device with an SSD get a good one with DRAM on the SSD. Crucial's MX series SSD's are a good choice for laptops and desktops. Seems like the internal SSD failing was the main problem I've had with older handheld devices. Five years and they're shot. Buy I've got a few hard drives that are decades old and still work.

So it seems like longevity vs efficiency.

On a similar note, I have thought about taking all my electronics, both portable and not, and figuring out how to power them all off of solar only.

I also forgot to mention that there's also the Raspberry Pi 400 computer.

I'd actually prefer the Raspberry Pi 400, all the ports are on one edge of the board; but they're on backorder at Best Buy.

Actually, I'd prefer the new Mac Mini, but they're on backorder for 4-6 weeks too.

Silicon has gotten rare lately. Might want to wait a bit longer for another blood money check

Silicon chips and brass ammo. The next round of Chinky Pox money goes to a 3D printer.

The first thing I was going to do with a new Mini would be to down the blockchain and generate a Bitcoin wallet address. but by then my federal fiat Lucky Bucks will buy half as many Statoshis. :(

You don't need a Mini to get a Wallet. Seems like excuses to not do things.

Ducks in a row.

I'm down to the Raspberry Pi 4 and I don't trust it sufficiently. I have a verbal agreement with my son about the Bitcoin he mined and then lost interest in. That's locked in. And once I have the wallet, I intend to put QR codes on content that I publish.

Besy Buy has the $899 model in stock. All the extra $200 gets is 256Gb of drive space. I'd have more interest in double the RAM.

SlickDeals has a Mini on the front page for $600 for Costco members. I use my parent's account, but occasionally get my own (don't buy enough stuff to justify it usually).

Specs:
Apple M1 Chip 8-core CPU (4 performance cores & 4 efficiency cores)
8GB Unified Memory
256GB Solid State Drive
8-core GPU
802.11ax Wi-Fi 6 & Bluetooth 5.0
macOS Big Sur
Ports:
2x Thunderbolt / USB 4
2x USB A
1x HDMI 2
1x Gigabit Ethernet Port
1x 3.5 mm Headphone Jack

The XFi just came down off a lift and to looks like except for a missing tailpipe hanger, the boots and CV joints and axles are Okay.

I would drive up and give you 14ea 50s, and then drive up again so you don't have to float the deal. I can visit my brother in Perrydale.

edit:

Pleez don't feel bad if I cut you out of the deal. He's checking to see if they're available in Salem or Lebanon.

Don't want a profit, but happy to help if I can. I trust you're good for the float.

EDIT: I happen to be yer neck of the woods again.

The deal is on. He will get an email when it is instore.

I'll try to schedule my route past where we can take lunch.

Whelp, I need to be in Albany in 45 minutes. I guess I won't make it that far North this time.

Next time, perhaps when we're allowed to enjoy a meal like civilized people.

Also, you had better be on the road now.

Enjoy!

I was.

Home again, but I'm still on the Raspberry Pi. I'll get an activation code for some antivirus software at Best Buy tomorrow.

No lifetime access to Symantec?

They didn't even let me take the Aeron chair home. :(

I looked at Tom's Hardware www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-mac-antivirus and they rank Bit Defender, Kaspersky and Norton 360 as first, second and third.

Last time I drove all the way to Fry's to get Kaspersky, because they're the ones that outed Stuxnet. But it's really hard to find. So I think I'll go with Norton. $25/year and it has a password manager and VPN.

There is already malware recompiled to run on the M1 chip.

Although you can't believe everything you see, I liked the video Linus Tech Tips did of the Bit Defender.

Personally I don't use anything other than what Windows comes with and stay away from shady websites and don't open emails from people I don't know, which seems to work fine.

Only virus I ever got was a diskette boot virus from high school programming computers. Must have been 1998. Good habits are better protection than protection.

Agree. I haven't used anti-virus in years.

Come on, man.

I'm trying for best practices here. Not running as Admin. Backup of the new machine. I'll down the AV software, update the out-of-the-box OS, down two application programs and air gap it. It's a big-ticket item and I want to protect it.

I spent 2 years in the Windows Antivirus queue at Symantec, helping the victims of Gate's and Ballmer's perfidy. The rest was helping Mac owners.

And as for staying away from shady websites, I've inadvertently clicked on links were on Ecomodder that took me to :eek: Facebook. :eek:

The built in antivirus tends to be sufficient for most wrong clicks. If your computer beeps and asks you to call a number, never call the number. Just close the window, and if that doesn't work just reboot and you'll be fine.

Not running as Admin is a great idea. If it asks for a password, don't do it unless you're 100% sure it's ok.

Well, obviously that's obvious. The insidious ones just sit quietly in the corner mining Bitcoin for someone else.

I called Norton tech support and a helpful young lady in the Philippines registered the product, and suggested install before the OS upgrade.

In the $25 purchase in a VPN and password manager (other features I don't need are Windows only). The second year subscription is $100, but she turned off automatic renewal and I will uninstall and buy another $25 code.

I compiled a list of CPUs that I think would be some okay fits. R20 and R15 are Cinebench benchmarks for single and multi-core. I am really liking the idea of the J4000/5000 series Celerons and Pentiums. The idea of the Asrock ITX boards with integrated processor is quite appealing. She does have a 3.5" HDD for photo storage that has to fit up to it.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1614446577

I'm one DVI to micro-HDMI cable or adapter away from having two screens available to two computers. I got a 4-inch Ethernet cable, but I could use a 2nd one. The antivirus and Bitcoin client haven't happened but I do have email again. :thumbup:

Anyways, Elon Musk snagged 1.5 billion in Bitcoin. This episode of 2 The Future is stating the obvious for the most part, but they have some eye-opening statistics at t=509 this is what they have to say:
Later they get into using a mining rig as a resistance heater. And mining driving down the price of solar, the way pot growers did in the 1980s.

Kinda weak points. What percent of transactions are done by banks vs Bitcoin? The power consumption per transaction in the banking system is a fraction of Bitcoin. The power consumption per dollar of stored value is also a fraction. Interesting nonetheless.

I would like to point out that TDP is not maximum or even average power, and it doesn't have much to do with a processor's overall power consumption. Most modern CPUs idle very frugally, and an office computer will spend most of its time at or near idle.

I agree that a laptop will overall consume the least power. One can approach laptop levels of power consumption with careful component selection - things like a low power M.2 drive (they're surprisingly thirsty), low voltage RAM, picking one of the lower-end chipsets, and an efficient (and not oversized) power supply.

Most contemporary computers are going to be so frugal that the difference between a high-end 8 core CPU and one of Intel's Atom derivatives will likely be lost in background noise.