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BikerModder 08-26-2012 02:47 AM

A MAF Sensor Mod
 
http://www.kitesolar.com/car_fuel_mod.htm This mod restores the fuel efficiency by as much as 20% improvement over factory.

What are needed are a set of tin snips and some material suitable for a restrictive plate. I used some copper sheet I had laying around.

The Mass Air Flow sensor mod tricks the O2 sensor as air flow around the MAF element is lessened. The computer recognizes less air so it squirts less fuel. The O2 sensed at the catalytic convertor will achieve a stable level when the flow of air is restricted somewhat... To do this the computer modifies the fuel mixture.



I might see more improvement without sacrificing performance by covering the maf sensor slightly in my 2007 Spectra5.

I think it may do better than the 5 miles per gallon improvement I am seeing in my KIA Spectra5 but it is a sports sedan. Your car may do better or worse. Also don't mess up the MAF sensor because they are supposed to be quite fragile.

thomason2wheels 08-26-2012 02:50 AM

Neat idea...would love to see what kind of numbers you are getting, both before and after

Daox 08-26-2012 08:10 AM

Also let us know when your engine is ruined from running too lean. Seriously, leaning out an engine like this mod is doing has the possibility of totally junking your engine.

arcosine 08-26-2012 08:32 AM

It will only lean the mixture during open loop, in closed loop it still stoichiometric. Open loop is during cold starting and full throttle, unless you have an error code and a bad sensor..

nemo 08-26-2012 09:40 AM

Depending on how it changes the flow around and through the sensor it could indeed change the air fuel ratio.

ecomodded 08-26-2012 12:32 PM

I suspect the leaning out of the mixture will raise the exhaust temperatures significantly.
I would use less throttle in your daily driving and more coasting, you will see a 5 mpg increase, without toasting your motor, like Daox suggested you would.

Not long ago i was thinking on restricting the actual airflow to de-tune the motor to make less horsepower.
What i had to do was tune my driving habits not de-tune the car.

BikerModder 08-27-2012 12:25 AM

I did a conversion on a Corvette engine L98 so it could burn 87 octane. As an unexpected result I arrived at around 34 miles to gallon on my first gallon. That was on a V8 and I do have a photo to prove it as it got that consistently. Stopping at lights and getting through about a half hour drive each way to the store. All I did was install a .30 of an inch gasket in a head rebuild. That lowered the compression so I could avoid the pre-combustion or detonation. Then I increased air flow but understand the corvette is more tunnel like.

I liked the result.

I had some other mods and would like to share some time. I have been kinda busy and it will take a while to test the tank on this 4 cyl.

If the distributor is not set it can really glow the exhaust but I am not doing that this is a cheap easy and fool proof. I think is sounds a little smoother running right now but I know that is a lot to assume at this point from a simple mod.

baldlobo 08-27-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerModder (Post 323951)
Untitled Document This mod restores the fuel efficiency by as much as 20% improvement over factory.

What are needed are a set of tin snips and some material suitable for a restrictive plate. I used some copper sheet I had laying around.

The Mass Air Flow sensor mod tricks the O2 sensor as air flow around the MAF element is lessened. The computer recognizes less air so it squirts less fuel. The O2 sensed at the catalytic convertor will achieve a stable level when the flow of air is restricted somewhat... To do this the computer modifies the fuel mixture.



I might see more improvement without sacrificing performance by covering the maf sensor slightly.

I think it may do better than the 5 miles per gallon improvement I am seeing in my KIA Spectra5 but it is a sports sedan. Your car may do better or worse. Also don't mess up the MAF sensor because they are supposed to be quite fragile.

this "mod" does nothing at all. it's about as good as the resistors your suppost to put in-line with your sensors. snake oil. Meaning the ecm with change an adjust accordingly.

might effect your throttle response though.

if your getting 5mpg, do you have a scangage or equiv. take a pic of what the maf reading is.

BikerModder 08-28-2012 06:34 PM

i just don't know what you're suggesting? It is a good mod. I already went a hundred miles and I don't live that close to work. I just caught it though there are many different types of vehicle though. Alright

nemo 08-29-2012 09:53 AM

I would not recommend this mod. Are you mentoring the AFR? If you are not checking engine parameters and testing there is no way of telling what is happening, good, bad or indifferent. You got a mileage increase was that the reason ( A-B-A testing). What is the long term effect.

BikerModder 09-01-2012 12:07 PM

You aren't hurt by this it is moot if you don't want. I am getting a substantial improvement already and even as it is significant each reading it is at least AN improvement. The problem this is stupid and I have gone 300 miles with 3 fill ups and am averaging 37 MPG cross city and hwy now. I can't tell the accuracy until I start doing top offs and full drain. They are seemingly fluctuating but I get that you changed yer own @#$%^&*() opinion to them somehow. : |

baldlobo 09-02-2012 12:08 AM

i'll just leave this here

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

serialk11r 09-02-2012 01:47 AM

Completely throwing off your MAF calibration sounds like a really stupid idea. Tricking the engine has to be done at the O2 sensors, and tricking the engine is stupid in the first place. You can increase fuel economy significantly by screwing with AFR but something like that should be done in a precise, controlled way.

suspectnumber961 09-02-2012 10:07 AM

There are a lot of what I'd call...GRUNGE....on this forum who like to dump on any mods that might improve combustion efficiencies and so forth...like fuel additives...air intakes...etc.

Instead of realizing that improving mpg is like an easter egg hunt...where you chase down ALL leads...they DUMP on anything new. Sort of STRANGE for a forum dedicated to eco-modding?

There are some who do like to drop an brightly colored egg here and there to watch the chase begin...for profit or just for fun?

That said...I would caution you to keep careful track of your engine temps...best is by monitoring exhaust temps....you can weld a "bung" into your exhaust to get a decent temp readout.

I did some sensor modding with a 1st gen Nissan engine (early EFI) and was able to lean the engine out to the point that it wouldn't start in colder weather and lost some power when warmed up...but saw no mpg gain. (4x4) It also overheated mildly on a long upgrade on the highway. So I backed off on it some.


The GRUNGE lose sight of one fact...the main issue is an mpg increase...if you honestly have that...stay with it....you just need to be sure you aren't harming the engine in some way.

I recently got a 1-2 mpg (?) by simply installing a cone filter...which might be affecting how the MAF reads air intake....been arguing with the GRUNGE ever since though. :D

Strangely...the Focus intake is likely restricted from the factory...and I "unrestricted" it....though there is a built-in venturi right before the MAF sensor "wires".

LaPointe info from 06....95 Mazda pickup....

"We fixed the original messed-up inlet system by letting the intake air come from the engine compartment. The gutless condition over 60 MPH was cured by removing the plastic venturi out of the inlet hoses and replacing it with a straight-thru plastic hose. The venturi served no purpose except to slow down the vehicle. Then we removed the plastic air filter container and with a hole saw drilled 10 holes to let air into the filter without the air flow being restricted. The previous hole from the fender well was finally plugged and now WARM radiator air comes into the engine inlet system. The car has picked up about 30-35 HP and can accelerate easily up to 90 without hesitation. An impossibility before. In all respects, the Mazda runs much better and more efficiently. So we wonder (how on Earth) Ford and Mazda engineers allowed these idiotic mistakes that we fixed. The car was a gutless wonder and now runs extremely well. This pickup is the same as a Ford Ranger pickup."


Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerModder (Post 325317)
You aren't hurt by this it is moot if you don't want. I am getting a substantial improvement already and even as it is significant each reading it is at least AN improvement. The problem this is stupid and I have gone 300 miles with 3 fill ups and am averaging 37 MPG cross city and hwy now. I can't tell the accuracy until I start doing top offs and full drain. They are seemingly fluctuating but I get that you changed yer own @#$%^&*() opinion to them somehow. : |


mwebb 09-02-2012 10:39 AM

yes - you are wrong -
 
I can't tell the accuracy until I start doing top offs and full drain. They are seemingly fluctuating but I get that you changed yer own @#$%^&*() opinion to them somehow. :

first of all
restricting MAF FLOW can not change air fuel ratio IF the system does not set a DTC for lean condition

basically
if your check engine light is not on you are not changing AFR
this is a fact
it is true whether or not you can understand it .

next
changing MAF FLOW (reducing) does change the LOAD calculation
and that
may / might change the ignition timing map which may or may not have an effect of increasing fuel economy
it will NOT make the engine / system get happy with the use of
87 octane fuel (regular fuel)
if it was designed to use
91 octane fuel (mediocre fuel)

next
lean condition always
reduces
combustion temperature and exhaust gas temperature
when leaner that about 15.5 to 16 to 1 see the NOX curve
but
that is irrelevant as we have already established that you have not changed your AFR by making your system leaner as you have no cEL therefore no lean condition fault or DTC

now then;
advancing ignition timing by screwing with ignition timing map
(reducing LOAD calculation)
causes peak combustion pressure to occur
BEFORE 14 degrees ATDC which causes (ping) engine damage which is
usually attributed to
the alleged (non existent) lean condition

bottom line
measure calculated load and ign timing advance on cyl 1 with your scan tool
before
and after
your TAMPERING
even a POS scan tool like SCAN GAUGE can do that -
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5128/5...4be1cc34_b.jpg
use a co pilot when graphing OR logging with any scan tool

do not tamper with things you do not understand
UNTIL
after
you have learned enough to understand the possible damage you can cause
with your TAMPERING
when you can make a rational decision about the benefits as opposed to detrimental effects
of your choices

suspectnumber961 09-02-2012 01:14 PM

LaPointe sez....

Why do persons criticize good products they have not tried out?

"One BIG reason is that such persons see us as competition. So they want to discredit our products to sell more of their own inferior stuff. We know from psychology that many guys are insecure and feel threatened when they hear about something new that sits beyond their experience or level of expertise. Rather than ask how it works, they find it easier to condemn what they do not understand in an effort to dismiss the object that threatens them. Often they like to appear “smarter” or more “cynical” in order to seem “cool.” An intelligent person usually asks how it works and collects more information about something before forming a logical and informed decision."

LaPointe is likely no longer with us...can't even see his old site on the wayback machine.....though you could before. Looks like the ethanol producers/Texas all people/war mongers etc.....got together and deleted him?

BikerModder 09-02-2012 02:34 PM

@ suspectnumber961 I did not come to criticize and you may be right about grunge
@mwebb you make some pretty valid complaints but it is not "first of all"? tho I am not getting any errors E85 throws a warning light in my car. also were all here... still you have all day it sounds.
@serialk11r lake the name a$$ hole but already had issues with it not being balanced and I guess you are agreeing. I have 02 extensors in my closet
and baldlobo I was leaving the results we may be interested in here. If you want to suggest a reference I can see and read but I already am cautiously opportunistically sharing. I'll get to it.

And to all I could suggest a bigger plate along with the mileage reading I saw without sacrificing power. Maybe a K&N along with would improve the power response along with significant results.

suspectnumber961 09-02-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerModder (Post 325462)

And to all I could suggest a bigger plate along with the mileage reading I saw without sacrificing power. Maybe a K&N along with would improve the power response along with significant results.

I'm doubting a bigger plate would help, but who knows. Usually those sensors are on the sides or periphery of the intake tube/AFM....so maybe it is the increased flow rate that makes the diff?

I'm thinking a hemispheric shape...half of a ball or egg would help smooth the flow out some...unless it is the disturbed flow that helps to cause an mpg gain.

Adding a cone filter right before the AFM might help some by not restricting the flow until it hits the plate or hemisphere?

Like to hear how it works out....

My advice...if you see an mpg gain...stay with it and improve things if possible.

Would help if you would document your results some...but you'll never satisfy some people on this forum.

REMEMBER......The mpg gain is the HORSE...how and why you see the mpg gain is the CART. Most reasonably intelligent people try to keep the HORSE in front of the CART...works better that way.

Some try to beat the crap out of the horse with the cart...go figure. :rolleyes:

mwebb 09-02-2012 10:53 PM

yes - you are wrong again / still
 
"... @mwebb you make some pretty valid complaints but it is not "first of all"?
DO NO HARM .
tho I am not getting any errors E85 throws a warning light in my car. also were all here... still you have all day it sounds. ..."


actually no-
you may indeed be inflicting damage to your engine and you appear to be blissfully UN aware of how to test for it or that there is even a reason or need to test for it.

until it bites you right in the butt .
modifying to the point of catastrophic failure or possible and likely catastrophic failure is to be avoided .

so
i just wanted future readers of this
blarney thread
to be aware
that you have absolutely no idea what you are doing - so that they do not blindly follow in your footsteps and install
UNimprovements into their systems without first learning about the
REAL and effective
methods of improving things like Fuel Economy and power output

that will NOT cause surprises

-----------------------------------------

REDUCEING MAF flow can never improve power output
installing K&N garbage filters can never improve fuel economy as per two tests by EPA and one much better test by IATN
REDUCEING MAF flow can never enable a change from 91 octane to 87 octane fuel

you are speaking dingbat
thank me very much for my patience if not my diplomacy.

Frank Lee 09-02-2012 11:14 PM

suspect: lapointe? seriously? :rolleyes:

BikerModder 09-02-2012 11:30 PM

E85 engine light cleared at the pumps. No lapointe? if that is an engine reference I know in 30 years of autojeering not since EFI or cross point have I heard a foul word taking garbage seriously I ran it without the filter... I could put window screen in man. Run it 200,000 miles the roads are all paved here OK. So you can put your K&N filters in you all have. I might put my generic on in for extra protection. I forgot to mention I don't gamble really until I don't have the problem or I run out of butts.

Frank Lee 09-02-2012 11:43 PM

Are you high?

suspectnumber961 09-03-2012 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 325550)
suspect: lapointe? seriously? :rolleyes:

I think LaPointe knew his stuff. He rigorously refined and tested mods using a SG going out 100 miles and back the same way on a highway to try to factor out wind direction and driver input. If you could combine what he knew about increasing engine efficiency with the aero and other mods this forum focuses on...you might have something.

I think Obama and LaPointe were/are going the same direction...reducing the demand for fuel. Seems you either reduce the demand for oil by increasing efficiencies and finding other sources...or you just tear the country and the planet up looking for the last of the oil and gas so dufuses can drive big pickups around....and the big boys can make big profits.

suspectnumber961 09-03-2012 04:19 AM

LaPointe was an old dude in Minnesota who was way ahead of his time and the oil hungary war machine...he suffered for it...but got good mpg.

I wouldn't run without a filter of some kind...you can find a generic cone type filter for $25-30 at most parts stores.

I'd stay with what you have...you have no engine light on and are seeing good mpg....engine runs good with no power decrease?

Try to post a diagram of the AFM in your car? You don't say what year it is. My Focus has a venturi right at the front of the AFM...right before the MAF sensor wires....venturis speed up the air flow.

If your AFM has no venturi...it's possible that the plate is speeding the flow?

Shows a pic of your AFM?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-09-KIA...0d0cba&vxp=mtr

Looks like it has a venturi....tapers down inside?

Main thing is: if it works to increase mpg...it works. As to why.......

You should try to ignore the edjucated idjuts on here...I generally do.... They know just enough to put things down...but not enough to put some effort where their mouth is and TEST STUFF?


Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerModder (Post 325556)
E85 engine light cleared at the pumps. No lapointe? if that is an engine reference I know in 30 years of autojeering not since EFI or cross point have I heard a foul word taking garbage seriously I ran it without the filter... I could put window screen in man. Run it 200,000 miles the roads are all paved here OK. So you can put your K&N filters in you all have. I might put my generic on in for extra protection. I forgot to mention I don't gamble really until I don't have the problem or I run out of butts.


suspectnumber961 09-07-2012 07:28 AM

Found on another forum posted in 2010....

"I dont know about the the wind shield.
I know that a couple of years ago, a number of folks ( myself included) experamented with just restricting the air intake. Most every car got better MPG, around 20% average. I assume that we all had some decrease in performance, but know one ever noticed or mentioned that. I did it on my sons towncar blocking about 75% we only ran it that way for a weak but one guy kept his like that for a year or more. The blocking was done away from the MAF"

more from same poster...

I just test things.
Like I said i did it on myu sons car (without him knowing) I like testing things on my family because they wont change there driving habits i think i get a more accurate and unbiased results.

My son did not want it on his car.I also believe in better ways to get gains.

I just used duct tape to block the ducting about 8" after the air mass sensor. I left about a 1.75" x 1.75 opening for that 5 liter engine.

Frank Lee 09-07-2012 03:44 PM

You're kind of like EM's own National Enquirer.

slownugly 09-07-2012 04:06 PM

im a mechanic and logic would tell me that restricting air flow to the maf would be on the same page as driving with a retstricted air filter. which may eventually cause a fault code for lean or rich. to cause those codes you need fuel trims to be way out of the norm (normal being + or - 10%) if the computer is seeing +25 fuel trim its reading lean and will dump all kinds of fuel (increase injector pulse width) to compensate. Basically pissing in the wind. ive seen so many vehicles come in with cone style aftermarket filters on with p0171/p0174 codes. that computer and maf are tuned to the factory intake parts. one change in air flow in the induction system and that will throw the maf off. this doesnt apply to every car because they are all tuned differently.

now with my 93 civic lx there is such an aftermarket popularity that i could take my computer to a guy who does chipping and mapping and tell him to drop my afr down to 18:1 in my cruise rpm on the highway at whatever map reading i want. and just adjust my timing so its safe with the same program. Not only that but do it for a relatively low cost. with newer vehicles its going to be different/more expensive

pete c 09-08-2012 10:23 AM

It seems as though this guy thinks that if a mod does not result in loud noises/flames coming out from under the hood, it is doing no harm.

I guess this philosophy works sort of if you drive 1 tire in the grave 300 dollar beaters. Nothing wrong with that as I have owned a few myself.

[rimshot]Then i got a real job.[/rimshot]

:D

I am still having some trouble understanding exactly what it is that he is doing by restricting the MAF. I could see how this added throttle means that for a given amount of power, you have to open the real throttle a little further and that this changes the ECM's take on what's going on. Whether or not this helps or hurts anything, I haven't a clue.

As for running with no air filter, well that is a colossally stupid thing to do. I don't care how clean the roads are, sooner or later your engine is gonna get a bad case of indigestion.

mwebb 09-08-2012 10:54 PM

this pudding head is WRONG too two to
 
restricting air flow with dirty air filter can never change air fuel ratio and can never set a lean trim DTC
it is not even theoretically possible , you will know this when you understand what a
Mass Air Flow Sensor does

i assume you all know that the MAF sensor measures total air (mass) flow
entering the combustion chambers
that is all it does
that is all it can do
it can not do anything besides this
IF you restrict air flow to the MAF sensor , the MAF sensor will correctly report the amount of air that it measures
which just happens to be the same amount of air that the engine receives and then the ECM provides the correct amount of fuel to keep the air fuel ratio at stoich
14.64 parts air to 1 part fuel by mass

restricting air to the MAF does not change this fact
the AFR ratio will not change , at all -

assuming
the
( hypothetical / alleged )
restriction does not divert air away from or toward the MAF sensor -
and / or
does not induce turbulence in the column / cylinder of air flowing to the MAF sensor
restricting air flow has ZERO effect on mixture
therefore ZERO effect on Fuel economy

... see earlier post for explanation of possible side effects if
(hypothetically)
air is directed away from the MAF sensor by the restriction or if turbulence induced by the restriction interferes with consistent flow to the MAF sensor ....

by restricting air in
you will have reduced max available power output
nothing more
nothing less
stop this nonsense

it is obvious that the OP and some others can not comprehend this
so,
i recommend to all of those individuals ....

quit while you are behind


Quote:

Originally Posted by suspectnumber961 (Post 326429)
Found on another forum posted in 2010....

"I dont know about the the wind shield.
I know that a couple of years ago, a number of folks ( myself included) experamented with just restricting the air intake. Most every car got better MPG, around 20% average. I assume that we all had some decrease in performance, but know one ever noticed or mentioned that. I did it on my sons towncar blocking about 75% we only ran it that way for a weak but one guy kept his like that for a year or more. The blocking was done away from the MAF"


suspectnumber961 09-09-2012 09:38 AM

A pic of the OP's mod....

http://www.nonags.org/members/nijqk/KIA-AFMblock.jpg


Pic of what I believe a Spectra5 AFM looks like....

http://www.nonags.org/members/nijqk/KIASpectra5AFM.jpg


Shows that the blocking is directly in front of the AFM air flow sensor. Does not seem to be any venturi (undersized cross-section)with this AFM.

BikerModder 09-11-2012 02:22 AM

I was just seeing if it could be diverted. Even a little. It will just mix more air hypothetically. I realize the oxygen sensor plays a part in the exhaust and it would be helpful to me if a mod to make it less sensitive would be shared. I would like you to remember if considering this that I was not trying to lose any horsepower with the goal being high mileage. It just seemed as quick. Dirt or grime can foul the Maf sensor. The copper plate could do something I don't know but the air is not flowing as close through but more around. And gas is going up. Thanks suspectnumber961 for pointing out the sensor location a bit. I will check it. I may be a little high. I would think of something to add but can't as of the moment. I am going to the pumps to get gas.

BikerModder 09-11-2012 02:40 AM

second time now for 29 MPG on 150 miles driving in town. What is it supposed to get 25?

suspectnumber961 09-12-2012 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BikerModder (Post 327227)
second time now for 29 MPG on 150 miles driving in town. What is it supposed to get 25?

Check messages....

Frank Lee 09-12-2012 01:35 PM

Oh come now suspect- is your new sig women and children friendly? LOL

Why don't you just throw salt over your shoulder and cast a hex on engineers at the next full moon?

pete c 09-12-2012 03:13 PM

stop tailgunnin', frank.

:D

suspectnumber961 09-13-2012 08:07 AM

Me no talk to paleface idjuts with leaking pens in front pocket. Me dance at harvest moon...me hope idjuts fall on faces and eat mud. Me be happy injun? :rolleyes:

BikerModder 09-13-2012 12:16 PM

Final Total here after a trip to the college campus to enroll... 37 hwy

some_other_dave 09-13-2012 05:36 PM

And the same trip, under the same conditions, without the mod? What mileage does that give you?

-soD

baldlobo 09-13-2012 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by some_other_dave (Post 327729)
And the same trip, under the same conditions, without the mod? What mileage does that give you?

-soD

probably the 37mpg he's suppost to get highway

most reviews say 33-35 hwy mpg(27 city)

JRMichler 09-13-2012 09:47 PM

Restricting the airflow can save gas. My own very first car, a 1961 Rambler American, got 30 MPG at first. It would only go 60 MPH on a level road, slower uphill, and faster downhill. Then I found that the throttle linkage was only opening the throttle partway. Fixed that, and got 24 MPG after. But then I was driving 70 MPH.

So there. Indisputable truth that intake restriction improves MPG. :D


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