Making a durable (removable) upper/lower grille block for the UFO: 2000 Honda Insight
 

It's coming up on 2 years since I got the Insight. I figured it's time to lose the taped-on plastic, and make something a bit more permanent/durable (but also removable). I've taped and re-taped this thing so many times, I've messed up the paint a little bit.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1317002272

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1317002272
(Photos from: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-km-18930.html )

Last time I made a permanent block was for the Firefly (Metro). I made a custom vinyl "bra" for that car:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...7&d=1197476035
(From: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...k-bra-285.html )

Worked well, and is aesthetically fine since the car is black. But I didn't want to put a black bra on the radioactive-snot-green UFO, and finding colour-matching green material seemed unlikely. Also, closing the upper opening wouldn't be easy with material.

I'm inspired in particular by the quality work CigaR007 did on his Echo:

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3042/dscn2879jw.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8456/dscn2877e.jpg

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...cho-15673.html

So I'm making this one out of rigid foam insulation.

Actually, this is my 2nd attempt at using foam - I started work on an expandable foam upper block last year, but abandoned it. I've had no luck with the expand-o-foam approach to building mods. Each time I've tried to work with it, it seems too soft, doesn't shape easily, doesn't cure if you put it on too thick, etc. etc. etc.

I got started this evening. Should have some pics tomorrow.

Cool! Be sure to post pics, I'd love to see progress and how it turns out.

Step 1: failure!
 

Well here's how it didn't turn out, using the old expanding spray foam in a can trick:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361848527

Too hard to shape, big voids in the middle, not evenly cured, not stiff. Blah blah blah.

Foam board-based version 2.0 will be much more betterer. Pics tomorrow.

That's not failure. That is being very successful at finding out what didn't work. :D
The rigid foam your using, is it like styrofoam insulation? Will you be coating it or covering it with anything?

You might have to apply the foam in two or maybe even three thinner layers so it sets up without sagging and falling out like you have shown in your picture. When I did mine it set just fine, but it wasn't any thicker than 1-1.5" thick and that 1.5" was between the slats of the grill. Also, there is nothing stopping you from still using what you have there. Make sure its cured, maybe shape it a little, and you can always add more foam on top of it. It'll stick together.

Nah, the foam isn't going to work for this part. It's too slow, bendy, soft, messy, nasty, dumb.

Also, I just don't like it. Several attempts at making various parts with it over the last 5 years, much disappointment.

Working the rigid foam is easier, faster, more precise.

Exactly - rigid foam insulation. (Not styrofoam... more dense. I'll get the name off it later.) I started shaping the parts last night, and it's much better to work with than the bendy, soft, messy, nasty expanding foam.

I'll be coating it with 2 part epoxy (doesn't eat foam).

I'll post up pics of my progress later, after today's session.

Enemy number 1:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361893568

Another option is to fiberglass first, then fill in with foam, then fiberglass over the top of the foam. If you fiberglass first, you can remove the fiberglass 'form' and then fill it with expanding foam. The form should be rigid enough to work with. I think if I was to redo my pretty prius grill block I'd go this way. The foam is hard to form and if you want to finish it nice that means lots of sanding and the foam eventually gets squished. If you do it this way, there is a hard backing that will prevent this.

Or you could skip steps 1 through 17 and just use rigid foam board. :P

Ever thought of using some type of modelling clay to make the shape of the insert, then use that to make a mold? You could produce a light weight, tight fitting piece from fiberglass or something similar.

This might be a bit more work than doing a one-off from rigid foam insulation, but the easy sculpting nature of modelling clay might produce a nicer final product. Not to mention, if you screw up with clay you just add a bit of material back on and re-work.

This is how most surfaces are defined in the studio when styling a car, but instead of pulling molds the body is digitized and modeled in CAD.

I have thought about it, but have zero experience with sculpting. (Though I do have a friend who's a potter... maybe she could hook me up with materials & advice...)

That said, these particular parts are pretty simple: no compound curves involved, so the foam board lends itself really well here. A bit of shaping around the edges, kerfing to make bending the board easy, figuring out an attachment method (that's the harder part), and Bob's your uncle!

Just a word of caution: maybe the permanent block works in the flatlands of Ontario, but if you ever decide to drive west and climb some mountains, you will quite likely run into overheating problems. Even in the winter, with my 1/2 radiator block that barely keeps coolant temp at the normal 195F on level roads, driving up to ski (4500 to 8900 ft elevation change) will send the temps into the 215-220 range. In summer, without any block, I can easily see 230F or more.

Yes, people driving in mountainous country need a variable block more than I do. ;) Open on the way up, closed on the way down!

My nearly full block has worked perfectly for my typical use. My fan has come on maybe twice. That said, one design consideration is that it will be easy to remove, should I ever venture into big hill country.

But your point is worth repeating for people who are new to the grille block idea.

4 more options:
You can try applying a second coat to the first.

Try stretching some polyester cloth over the opening. It can be heat shrunk then make your part over it with composite and epoxy.

Using a similar technique make a mold from some layers of duct tape.

Get some two part foam You mix it just before you use it. It cures hard.

Another option is to use some 20-25 oz cloth, It will bridge across a lot of defects.

I think if you're going to go with liquid foam, 2-part is the way to go. The cured product is easier to work with than the canned expand-a-foam. I would look into 2-part for making more complex parts than this grille block, which lends itself nicely to foam board.

Since the cold spell in January I've been using a 100% full block. I have black vinyl completely covering the upper grille opening, and the Eco's active grille shutters stay closed in cold weather blocking the lower opening.

I have not verified that the lower grille shutters are not opening once the car gets up to temperature, but I don't think they are. Every time I shut the car off and check them they are closed, but in the summer months they are open with the car off (they close above 40 MPH and open again at some lower speed).

A small future project will be to mount a small position switch on the shutter actuator and have an LED or something light up to indicate when the shutters are open.

So far with a (assumed) 100% block I have not had any overheating issues. The temp gauge stays right in the same place it always has (yes the gauge is just a glorified idiot light, but the engine doesn't get hotter than the gauge's "normal" operating range). This is true so far, with everything from slow around town driving to highway trips with the cruise control set at 100km/h, though the temperature has barely gotten above freezing. In warm weather I anticipate issues unless I unblock part of the upper grille opening.

For those who don't have active grille shutters ( :) ) and desire a lower grille block in winter months, driving into a snowbank can accomplish this rather effectively and at minimal cost. :D

Progress update...

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361932284

Step 1: make a newspaper template

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361932284

Step 2: transfer template to 3/4 in. foam board, bevel the edges, kerf the back side to make it easier to bend

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361932284

Step 3: fashion the behind-the-scenes supporting/foundation piece, made from a 2 in. thick piece of foam. The bottom of this part is also shaped because the grille opening is "dished" from side to side. Secured with two screws through the bumper cover at the rear.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1361932284

Step 4: et, voila!

Still lots of finishing work to do (e.g. like making a finger hole so I can reach the hood release lever :D), but that's the big stuff completed. At least for the upper block.

If you're driving an Insight, the temp gauge isn't even a glorified idiot light. Mine jumps to 5 bars at ~145F, and stays there even at 230F (per Scangauge).

Also, I don't see any temps much above normal on level ground, at any speed. It's only climbing that apparently produces more heat than the radiator was designed to handle.

Interesting. I'm sure I had read somewhere in the early days of news about your car that below freezing they always stayed open to prevent a situation where they might ice up and then will not open. Obviously they changed their approach.

Been there, done that, left a perfect impression of the front of the car behind!

Good job on the mold metrompg. Every time you make something custom like this you will learn better how to do it.

Jamesqf: I thought only Ford did that, putting a "gauge" then hooking it to a switch. The temperature gauges on many Ford cars are just a glorified idiot light.

Well, once again, I need to actually verify this by hooking up some way of monitoring their function. The only "clue" I have so far is that I haven't seen them open since the fall in warmer temps.

In hot weather they are open at rest and I have to "assume" they are closing at speed, and in cold weather they are closed at rest and I have to "assume" they stay that way unless required to open for cooling... ??? I will definitely look into this further and post any findings.

One thing is for sure; if OEMs are integrating this system into cars it's pretty much guaranteed to be a VERY effective step in reducing drag.

That foam is starting to look pretty good. Finger clearance holes? That sounds like lost efficiency to me... can't you integrate some sort of shaved-door-handle solenoid or something overly elaborate to keep us lurkers entertained? :p

The 2011 Cruze had an actual engine temperature display accessible on the DIC. They removed this feature for 2012 since too many customers complained that the coolant temperature fluctuated while driving. Most people are better kept oblivious; Information in the wrong hands can be dangerous... :facepalm:

Agreed.

A minor, non-photographic update:

Today I fiddled, fussed, tweaked and then finally joined the 2 sections using drywall screws to hold things in place. Then I mixed and applied some epoxy to permanently bond them together. Some of the screws will come out once the epoxy cures, while others will be forever entombed inside all the aerodynamic goodness.

EDIT: almost forgot - good news! I won't need to add an actuator OR carve a finger hole to work the hood release lever. The hood lifts just high enough that I can get between it and the top of the grille block to reach the lever. Woo.

This is the exact same plan i have for the Swift. Use some sort of foam board (free leftovers from work) to shape and then apply some sort of fiberglass ontop to paint in the cars color. Only issue i have is how to fasten it. But i think i have an idea.

Inspiring work there! Make's it easier for us newbies to see how the pro's go about doing things ;)

Pierrel - coming up with a good fastening method can be the tricky part, especially if you want to be able to easily remove the parts (even trickier if you want to be able to remove them without using tools).

Today: progressed to the cosmetic part of the project, at least for the upper section. Maybe some pics tomorrow if I get to the first coat of primer. I hate this part of the job, which is basically the application of expensive chemicals, 90% of which I end up sanding off anyway! I brushed on a "base" coat of epoxy, so up next: sand, putty, sand, paint, sand, putty, sand, paint...

I also made the template for the bottom block as well.

And, I've come up with a plan to make a relatively simple variable shutter for the bottom opening, so I'll have the option of going with a 100% block at times - eg. during warm-up, or very cold temps, long downhill coasts, etc.

You might try using some flox next time Metro. It is either glass or plastic micro balloons that you mix with the epoxy into a paste with the consistancy about between honey to peanut butter. They make sanding much better and keep your part much lighter.

This is good to know

Pics: upper cosmetic; started on lower
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1362355412

Sand... putty... sand... paint... sand... putty... sand....

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1362355412

Cardboard template for lower block.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1362355412

Parts cut & kerfed. I'm using 1/2 inch foam board, not 3/4 which I may have wrongly said above.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1362355412

Backbone epoxied on. I haven't entirely figured out the mounting approach for the lower block, but I have a good idea on a way to do it that will be a no-tools removal/installation.

Please tell me you're going to use magnets, because then you can claim they improved your MPG and you WON'T end up in the Unicorn Corral.
:p

HA!! Now I have to use magnets.

magnets
 

Texas A&M University is working on magnets for wood and plastic.They should be out within the millennia! :D

Hopefully they're working on those pesky aluminum magnets too.

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I'm reporting in to say that I don't have much exciting to report.

Some more coats of epoxy, some sanding, a few coats of primer. Nothing photo-worthy.

Epoxy is nice to work with - you can use it inside without stinking up the house. Not so with polyester resins.

nice work metro, look forward to seeing final product.

ten-foot finish
 

Thanks!

I'm now at the point where I'm deciding how much effort I want to put in the "finishing" details. I'm leaning toward a "10 foot finish" -- meaning, from 10 feet away it will look great! :D

If I want to double or triple my time in the project, I might be able to make it look like the parts came from Honda ("1 foot finish"), but my heart's just not into doing that much fiddly work. I've got too many other projects on the to-do list for that.

Setting the bar low is good insurance towards being satisfied with the outcome. :) I suffer constantly from setting the bar too high, so high that I sometimes complicate things so much the project never gets off the ground.

The "Ten Foot Finish" will make for really nice forum pictures... only you will know the dirty truth!

I always want things to look good from 20 feet away. The overall shape is important. Only then would I decide if it is worth working toward more finish and detail.

Metro , 3M/Scotch makes dual lock fasteners that may work for you. RF9730CH

They are similar to velcro but both sides have the plastic hooks. I've used them with great success. Maybe worth a look.

3-foot finish?
 

Thanks, turbothrush.

---

The upper grille block is pretty much ready for paint:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1362772359

I hope I don't jinx the paint job by saying this, but it's looking more like a 3- or 5-foot job, not a 10-footer.

Lower block: I'm just tweaking its shape to fit the opening snugly. This weekend I'll decide on a way to mount it, and then it's on to finishing work for that piece.

I'm going to visit relatives tomorrow evening - a ~200 km (120 mi.) highway round trip. Both parts will be on the car for the journey, finished or not! :)

(Likely not.)

Looks great! Good job.

Very nice! ;)