Making use of the Wiki for modification / hypermiling info
 

Hi all,
After a few months on this site I just noticed there is a Wiki hiding up in the title bar.

I wonder how people feel about using this Wiki for more detailed modification information. Ecomodder has a great list of 66 mods now and 100+ hypermiling tips and a whole lot of info hidden in the forum threads. There is a bit of a guide to how effective and how costly some mods are but to find detailed info we have to head to the forums and search through many threads to find out results, problems and solutions to how to perform a modification or do that great hypermiling technique.

So the question is if I set up a Wiki for each efficiency mod listed would people use it and update it with there own experiences/ success.

The sort of info I am thinking would be useful in the wikis are as follows

General introduction: what the mod is about why people would want to do it.
Results people have seen: results of A-B-A tests
Range of cost:
How to perform the mod: pictures/instructions for different car types
Problems / draw backs

I figure if pages are set up and people new to the site come into the list of mods or hypermiling tips page they will get more detailed info and try out some of the modifications.

So what do you all think? if no body would use it I wont bother setting up any pages

Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe start small, get suggestions from others and let it build from there.

It's a wiki, it's there for open editing. Personally, I'd say that no one can bash you for your aspirations, as they haven't done anything to help "flesh out" the wiki themselves. Go for it!

I agree that it is currently underused. Since we can all edit it, we can have a cleaner way of getting the great info tidbits available in the threads compiled in a usable format.

And i hadn't noticed the wiki for a long time either!

Would definitely like to see better use of the wiki...

Sounds like there is some interest out there which is good to hear.

When I get some time in the next few days ill start up some pages. Then we will see if others contribute to the pages to make them better.

I would add my testing data for the mods I have done. It would save a lot of time when looking for all results of mod _____. I would also like to see the good and bad results (MPG + or MPG -)

Where can I add this info? DO I need to put it on a new page/ is there a place for it yet?

Hi Weather spotter,
good to see your enthusiasm, there isn't a location yet. I will make up some pages in the next few days and update this thread when people can find and start modifying the pages.

Also if anyone is particularly enthusiastic I wont be offended if others set up wiki pages for modifications before I get a chance. There is a guide on the in the wiki link for how to make new pages and edit existing pages.

Cool, I would like to add info to ones on grill blocks, wheel skirts, Kammbacks, side mirror removal, and tire inflating (more as I get data).

Idea: make a common template people can use/ add to that way it looks neat and professional. If you can make empty pages for each of the mods on the 65+ plus list (or just start off the first 5 or so and let people copy) that would be great!

I think that we should have a Moderator who can review each new page to confirm that it meets the minimum design and data requirements. I do not want to see snake oil things showing up in the wiki. This needs to be a place where people can find data on proven mods. Also I think that for MPG mods to show up in the wiki they need to have valid test data to back them up. No "this worked for me, I got 2mpg" as the main part of the article. People could add those comments but the main part of the page needs to have data to back up the claim. Having new pages be run by a moderator first would screen out the bad ones and keep the wiki a place of proven mods only.

If you need someone to moderate the Wiki I would like to offer myself for that job. I have lots of free time and a level head on my shoulders :) I can also keep myself nice and professional when things get nasty.

Weather Spotter, good to see you already have scientific data on many mods. I am hoping many people will provide scientific data on a particular mod and an average/range can be given for the particular mod.

looks like we are thinking along the same lines. I had planned to set up "blank" pages for every mod with a template showing suggested sections for people to enter their data in. The blank pages will be linked to by one master page which will list all of the 66 mods (and maybe some unproven mods) I can also leave a "template" wiki page which will be the template which people can copy off if they have a new mod to introduce.

I agree with the concept of a moderator however the power of a wiki is that everyone can edit the wiki and it therefore becomes self moderating in a way. So at this stage there are no groups of users that have different privileges. But if you have the time and see someone putting in something stupid or unproven into a wiki you (or anyone) can change it as you see fit. However if we get into situations where lots of people are making crazy claims and making the wiki unmanageable we can approach the ecomodder site admins to set up moderators. I guess at this stage I personally think we should just see how things go for the moment. But I am only one person in this group (im not a site admin) just another guy so feel free to disagree and approach the ecomodder site admins to see if they can set you up as an admin. Note: I also don’t know if the wiki software has a moderator function, I haven’t yet looked into the documentation in depth.

If the group decides a moderator is a good idea, you have my vote as I don’t have lots of free time anyway.

I see the power of the group, maybe we can get the admins to only allow people over XX number of posted to help edit the wiki? Say 25. This would drastically reduce the snake oil people and keep the Wiki cleaner.

I just want this Wiki to be a source that is creatable (say, I could quote it in a research paper). To make this happen it needs to be well documented and not full of junk. I do not mind the group editing it, I just think that some guidelines are needed.

Idea: section the 65+ mods into groups based on the amount of testing the proves the results? AKA, grill block is 100% verified, side mirror is 90% .... Over inflating tires is 50%, using synthetic oil is 40%...... snake oil 10% or less.

This would allow MPG mods to be searched by proven effectiveness, a new person could very quickly look over the list and see which ones are proven and which mods vary by vehicle type.


Idea 2: have a bar on the page that warns viewers if there is not much data. Like the ones on Wikipedia " this section needs sources to verify its claim". this would make it easy to see which mods need more testing (give me, and others, some ideas on what to gather more data for).

Thanks for putting some effort into this!
I had seen the wiki but I had not seen that we could add pages, so I like the idea of someone setting it up more, then I will add lots of data!

Weather, I like your ideas, it would definitely be a shame if the pages were taken over by non-credible information. Ill certainly be deleting or moving any snake oil type mods people put up.

Tonight I have taken a crash course on wiki page writing and set up the main page which you can find here
Car Modifications Main - EcoModder

I would go for your idea number 2 personally. If I can work out how I will put it in. Takes a bit of reading to work out all the features.

Anyway feel free to have a look and make any modifications you like.

I added the unproven mods section so that some new ideas come into the pages and it gives me a place to put new ideas that nobody has any data on. If I see some snake oil concepts I might make a new section "unscientific ideas" or something to that effect.

If you want to make changes or learn how to make new pages there is a manual at the bottom of the main wiki page (the page linked to by the link in the title bar "wiki")

I am going to start on the template now, see how far I get before I head to bed

So after a bit of learning how to write wiki pages I have made up the template and I have entered some data in for one of the mods the "side mirror delete" which is one that I know weather spotter has some data for. I have also done this mod so I put in my "unproven" information as a starter.
I have essentially copied the bulk of the data from the 65+ mod list web page (hope nobody minds) and added a few lines from my own experience.
I already realized we need a difficulty indication in the template so I am sure this will all evolve when more people use the pages.

Weather spotter I leave you to modify this first page (side mirror delete) with your data. It is a little confusing to modify the pages to start with but hopefully with the template I have set up you can modify most things without looking up how to write a wiki page.
There is an example for new lines, different sections, images (note: you need to first upload an image before using it in a page), tables and links.

For anyone new to the wiki's if you find a wiki you want to change you need to log into ecomodder then go to the wiki (only registered users can edit wikis) then when you have navigated to the page at the top there is a tab with the text "edit" press that and you will be taken to the edit page with the source information which you can change as much as you like.
Before submitting a page change press preview first to make sure you have not completely messed things up. Also I kept getting automatically logged out so copy your work before submitting it so you don't loose it.

If you dont know how to do something there is a manual at the bottom of the main wiki page (the page linked to by the link in the title bar "wiki"). This manual is a little difficult to understand. I assume it is written by people that write code so they seem to assume the readers also understand code. So if anyone has questions feel free to PM me or ask questions in this thread.

I took a look at your template, looks great!

I am in the middle of doing the mirror delete, no data yet. I have done the wheel skits and have data for that.
Take a look at the wheel skirts page, I just finished it when I saw your post. If you like the template better than what I did I can edit it later. I will on vacation for the next few days, so I will likely not have much of an internet connection. I can help out more next week!

Keep up the good work!

I support this!

One of the original goals of the mods and hypermiling tips lists was to continually expand them - both in terms of adding more mods/tips, plus illustrative examples (eg. links to project threads in the forum and other supporting info elsewhere on the web). But the current setup relies on me to update it (and to be honest, I bit off more than I can chew. I've got too many projects!).

Suggestion:

Each of the mods/driving tips in the wiki should have a prominent link back to a dedicated (new) forum thread for discussion. I realize the wiki has "discuss" functionality, but if we separate that from the forum, we'd be undermining it somewhat, and I'd want to avoid that.

Concern:

My only reservation of using the wiki is this kind of scenario: where it gets set up / edited by a few motivated members who eventually lose interest/move on (hey, it's life - that happens). Then it gets vandalized / polluted by misinformed or malicious users (it's life - this will also happen).

Many of the tips / mods are controversial. I can guarantee that people will fail to read the disclaimer (eg: in general, "don't be stupid/unsafe") and take great offense at some of the points. Fuel prices are relatively cheap now, so it won't happen a lot. But when prices and traffic go up again, this will happen.

Not sure what the solution is to this scenario aside from vigilance.

Leveraging the current lists:

The existing tips/mods lists have excellent exposure on the web - tons of inbound links and lots of visitors. Once the wiki is going, I could link from the lists to the relevant wiki articles to encourage visitors to delve deeper... assuming the quality of the wiki ultimately exceeds the current lists, which I'm sure it will if EM members collectively take it on.

To help fix this I was recommending a Moderator who will watch over the Wiki, if that person wants to step down (lack of interest) I would expect them to contact a site admin and have a replacement chosen. A regular member might loose interest, but I expect more from a moderator.

your link back to a thread is a good one, how about a new category "Wiki discussion topics" to put these threads in (easy to find them all). the Wiki moderator could also watch over this area.

Ben

Since the wiki is "my baby," I would say this is a great idea. I've been nagging darin to add it to the header for ages so it would get more exposure. We can also link fleshed out entries from the lists.

:thumbup:

Darin informs me that I'm insane and have been overlooking the link in the header for a long time. I guess my nagging in the past paid off. Anyway, I think it's a great idea, and would be good references for the tips list and we could make a big directory page linking around to the tips and link it from the main wiki page, as well.

It looks like the config file needs correcting so the wiki doesn't think internal links are external.

I think the list of mods might work better in a table with brief details like price, difficulty, effectiveness, and payback time (with an assumption of the gas price). That way people can sort them to find mods that meet their requirements.
I'll have a play with wiki tables tomorrow and see how it would look (on a locally hosted wiki, so I don't change anybody else's work before I know I can get it to work right).

Weather I saw your wheel skirts info coming up while I was doing the template was good to see all the pictures going in at a fast pace. I was thinking I might set up the wheel skirt page based on the template and add your page as a instruction link. As it has great detail which shouldn't be lost but can clutter up the page and mean others wont post their instructions. There will likely be several different ways to do many of the mods so linking detailed pages I think is a good way to go.
Might end up having one table in the template with
user name, car type, cost of mod, time of mod, mpg before, mpg after, instruction page

This would mean people can see all the details at a glance and go into a given users detailed methods.

MetroMPG, I was hoping setting up the mod list wiki would take some pressure off the site admins you have all done a great job on the website but constantly updating and dealing with everyone’s particular queries has got to take a lot of someone’s time.
I like the idea of a dedicated thread for each wiki, when I get a chance on the weekend ill see if I can set up a few.
I think we all have the same concern about the wiki being modified with non reliable information. I wonder if SVOboy knows if permissions can be set up so a smaller group of "experienced users" can modify certain pages. If there is this functionality it could be implemented on select pages which have been completed. so they don’t get trashed but still allows the general group to enter new data into uncompleted pages. Not sure if this is a good idea or if its needed just floating the concept at this stage. I guess on the main page this would be very useful so that people can look down the proven list with confidence nobody has put a crazy mod into the list and “experienced users” can promote unproven mods into the proven list.

SVOboy I have to thank you for putting the wiki into the site, looks like an excellent tool

tumnasgt I like your idea of putting a little more data into the main list which will give more value when quickly glancing down the list to find your next ideal mod. Payback time may be a little difficult as it requires people to put down accurate cost and proper test data but will see how it goes. Feel free to change the main mod list page I wont be offended if my original page gets changed beyond recognition.
There is an example of tables in the template page which should get you well on your way to making this change.

I'm all for that! :D

I wonder if a dedicated subforum containing only threads that discuss individual mod tips might make sense. EG. forum home > ecomodding central > mod list discussion > individual threads about each mod ... problem with that is some of the mods would fall into the popular aero forum, some in the EV forum...

Or we could just leave them in the appropriate existing forum with a prefix in each title, like "[Mod list discussion] wheel skirts (rear)"

Hi All,
I have neglected my girlfriend a bit tonight and done some work on the wiki hopefully it’s worth it :).

I have added tables to the main list page with some useful summary info as tumasgt suggested which I think will be very useful. Also added a column indicating if more info is needed so at this stage we can all see what we need to populate at this early point. Changed to internal links (thanks tumnasgt for doing this on another page)
The individual mod template is updated so a user can put in all their relevant info about a mod in a single simple table. We can put in cost, duration of mod, efficiency benefit (proven or unproven improvement) and link to instructional page or detailed testing results

Weather spotter I update the rear wheel skirts page, put the template in with some info from the normal ecomodder efficiency modification list and I moved your great page on how you did the mod and your results and put a link in the rear wheel skirt page to yours in a table with a summary of your results. I figure if more people put in data about their mod we will be able to easily go down the table in a particular mod page see what efficiency improvements people have gotten, what it costed them and look at how several people have achieved a particular mod. I entered in the mpg before and after based on your results on your page but I may have read the table wrong so feel free to update this summary with any changes or more info.

I have also set up another thread for discussions on change suggestions for the main mod list page so hopefully we get a bit of discussion about new ideas or additions to the list in this thread
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ons-14289.html

So I encourage everyone to start populating some pages with any info they know about. I will put the blank template in each link hopefully make it easier for people to add their data.
I guess if we don’t see much activity updating data from others ill be tempted to go through some of the threads and put info gained from threads onto the wiki as a starting point. I figure once there is a bit of data in the wiki people will go there more often and then update it more themselves.

Thanks to weather spotter and tumasgt for already making wiki updates its only been a few days and we already have some good info on the wiki.

Of course any more suggestions on how to arrange the wiki are most welcome

Thanks for all your work!, I will get to work on it some more in a few days (I am on dial up right now---SLOW). At this point it takes 5 min to load this page.

Question, how do I make a new sub page on the wiki?

I want to make a how to for the side mirror delete page but it wants a link, so how do I make the page to link to? The rear wheel one I had made the page from the empty one for that mod and Saand moved it into the right place.

I got it, make a link (use the name you want) and it makes the page.

Had a look at the wiki progress - thanks, people!

That sounded like someone volunteering... :D

If you or anyone in this thread wants to officially keep an eye on that part of the wiki, that would be great.

I would be happy to help! I just need my wiki star :)

Drat that Ben. I'll bug him again.

Hi MetroMPG, Ill be happy to moderate as well,
Im looking forward to the point where the wiki pages are good enough to be linked to by the main 65 efficiency mods.

Some of them are!

When I see someone with results I ask them to add it to the wiki. I think that if I take some time and comb through the threads on some of the mods I can clean data to fill out some of the pages.

Yea I would tend to agree, on the weekend I might check over some of them and suggest to metroMPG a list of “finished” pages that could be linked to on the main 65 list and ultimately it is his / the ecomodder admins choice if they see the value in linking a particular page.

I have been searching through some of the threads for good test data already, there isn't too much out there that is easy to find at least. MetroMPG has some great data on a bunch of mods scattered through different threads which I have already put up, not sure I have found all of them yet. As for the other how to info/ intro it will just take a bit of time to fill out the pages.
I have seen now 5 people contribute to the wiki pages so your gentle encouragements for others to add their data must be starting to work.

WeatherSpotter if you find any info in threads and fill out anything in a page I can come along after and clean up any of the formatting/content/pictures, since you mentioned you are more about content it might be a good way to fill in a bunch of pages. If you get data from a thread just make sure you have the thread link in the page so its traceable. I often go through the recent change list to have a look at what is new and if any pages need a bit of a touch up so that could work well.

I can work with that, I always link to where I got the data.

I think more data will trickle in as people start seeing what the wiki looks like/ what it can do.

Yes, please do!

There are a few threads out there with testing that show the improvements of a new/taller 5th gear.

got my red star, so I think it is time to get to work!

I did some editing work on the main page, to my eye it looked cluttered and not in keeping with the main layout we have going on the sub pages.

What I changed:
I broke the 7 topics that are up there into 3 categories: Tips & modifications, Group projects, and Reference Material.

I also cleaned each topic name up (I removed the >>>)

I also added links to the moderators Profile's (sannd and I) in order to deflect questions away from the green stars :)

thoughts?

Is the car transport quotes link supposed to be there?

I couldn't work out whether it's sneaky spam or an ad that's paid for.

The new format looks good to me.

tumnasgt good find, i have looked at this page probably more than 100 times and modified it a few times and never noticed that link lurking there.
It does look like advertising / spam and interestingly only ecomodder users can change the wiki, i tracked down based on the history it has been there since May this year and user cartransport entered it in. Looks like the company made a user so they could post the spam on the wiki. Either way its gone now
thanks

I noticed it when I changed the page to internal links, I never quite got around to asking about it/looking through the history, and didn't want to delete it in case the company was actually paying for the link.

Hopefully sometime in the next couple of weeks I'll be more organized with my university work, then I can help with the wiki (I would help more now, but I don't need anything else to help me procrastinate :))