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PA32R 07-03-2009 11:53 PM

The man with the Mustang
 
Our old friend Doug Pelmear of the 110 MPGe Mustang is all set in his factory, with orders for 312,000 engines in his first month, thereby putting him into year four of his business plan in his first year!

Of course, the need for such quick expansion will obviously require outside investors to finance. Any takers? :p

See Hp2g.com for the press releases.

Frank Lee 07-04-2009 01:27 AM

That pissed me off so much I emailed the reporter and chewed her a new one. :mad:

What I said:

Quote:

Hi Laura-

You really need to have a technical advisor to check with before airing crap like this.

It's a total scam, the numbers are whacked, everyone that believes in this thing is being had.

Put a gallon of fuel- E85, regular, it makes little difference- in Doug's car and it will go little more than 20 miles- just like a stock Mustang.

Since he plays so loose and free with numbers, there is no reason to believe that quantity of orders and that amount of potential jobs either.

Did you know he was booted out of the "X-Prize" competition? Yeah, way to feature it on that clip...

You really ought to do a follow-up story that broadcasts the TRUTH... if you and your team have any integrity.

PA32R 07-04-2009 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 113705)
That pissed me off so much I emailed the reporter and chewed her a new one. :mad:

What I said:

If she replies, I hope you post it. I'm not holding my breath though.

Christ 07-04-2009 02:29 AM

People still pay attention to NBC? I thought that was kinda like Fox... the National Enquirer... etc.. You just watched it for a laugh now and again.

Frank Lee 07-04-2009 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA32R (Post 113710)
If she replies, I hope you post it. I'm not holding my breath though.

She promptly did!!! :eek:

"We’ve done several stories on the HP2g engine, including at least one in which we talked about the engine not being accepted into the X prize competition. In our very first feature on the engine, our investigative reporter asked the developer some pretty tough questions.

We will continue to follow this story as it is newsworthy. And you can bet that we will report on any development that might reveal it is a “scam.”

Thanks for your comments and for watching,

Laura Rice"

Yeah... I responded.

PA32R 07-04-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 113784)
She promptly did!!! :eek:

"We’ve done several stories on the HP2g engine, including at least one in which we talked about the engine not being accepted into the X prize competition. In our very first feature on the engine, our investigative reporter asked the developer some pretty tough questions.

We will continue to follow this story as it is newsworthy. And you can bet that we will report on any development that might reveal it is a “scam.”

Thanks for your comments and for watching,

Laura Rice"

Yeah... I responded.

I'm really pretty surprised that she responded, though it's a non-response of sorts. Journalism has gone away, the slightest effort at understanding whether his claims are plausible would have resulted in dumping the story. It's newsworthy in the same way as discovering a vast new supply of unobtainium.

SVOboy 07-04-2009 11:31 PM

I wonder what four companies would be stupid enough to order so many engines when they still run on secret technologies...

Unless it is just all made up. What kind of company orders 100,000 mustang engines with no vehicles, anyway? :p

PA32R 07-04-2009 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 113822)
I wonder what four companies would be stupid enough to order so many engines when they still run on secret technologies...

Unless it is just all made up. What kind of company orders 100,000 mustang engines with no vehicles, anyway? :p

Yeah.

HP2g: "Just drop these engines in whatever car you're manufacturing and poof, they'll get over 100 m.p.g."

Acme Car Co.: "So, how does it work?"

HP2g: "Just trust me. I almost entered the X-Prize contest."

Acme Car Co.: " Sweet, I'll take 100,000."

:p

SVOboy 07-04-2009 11:58 PM

"HP2G: One Engine Fits All"

If I keep going they will probably sue me. :p

PA32R 07-05-2009 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVOboy (Post 113827)
"HP2G: One Engine Fits All"

If I keep going they will probably sue me. :p

Doubtful. I can't see any of them wanting to be deposed by defendant's counsel. Imagine what your counsel would ask and how they'd have to answer. The crux of your defense would be the truth of their claims.

They might make threats and even file but they won't go to discovery.

bgd73 07-05-2009 01:33 AM

that has to be a scam.
let me guess..the shmuck made it fule injected as well.

not even a zerod self balancing boxer engine stays safe past 60mpg. What in hell does this guy think hes doing? mismeasuring a gallon with a different chemical? I can assume that is part of the liquified gas equation.."gallon" too funny. deflate that gallon back down to 22mpg like all the ridiclous inline engines known to man and keep money where it belongs: a real engine for one, let's start there...:mad:

Allch Chcar 07-05-2009 04:21 PM

I wish he would report the E85 miles per gallon and not give the 100% gasoline value. His numbers are not even believable as is. And they're ruining the top 10 fuel economy with his numbers.

A commenter believes he's only using the 15% gasoline to calculate the usage. If you get 16 mpg with E85 well that's only 15% gasoline* right? Divide 16 by 15% and you get where his numbers make sense, 106 MPGe. Which is wrong because Ethanol has value too, it's not empty, it has energy. Which with 16 mpg is really 85% of Ethanol's energy 76k BTU + 15% of Gasoline's energy 116k. E85 has 70.7% of the energy content of Gasoline which means it's the miles per gallon gasoline equivalent of 22.63 MPGe. Which is only moderately better than a stock V8 at highway cruise. Theoretically it should only be 4-5% off depending on driving style but I don't believe he's running stock. His numbers for power and fuel economy line up with the theory of increasing compression ratio in an engine. Which also increase max power output.

Frank Lee 07-05-2009 06:29 PM

"And they're ruining the top 10 fuel economy with his numbers."

I thought the dickhead got banned? :confused:

wdb 07-05-2009 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA32R (Post 113787)
I'm really pretty surprised that she responded, though it's a non-response of sorts. Journalism has gone away, the slightest effort at understanding whether his claims are plausible would have resulted in dumping the story. It's newsworthy in the same way as discovering a vast new supply of unobtainium.

It's newsworthy in that the journalist is attempting to remain as neutral as possible while keeping some media spotlight on the story. I don't know about you but it seems to me that the brighter the light shone on this dorkus the sooner people will see him for what he is.

I think your comments are a bit unfair to the reporter, who looks to me to be doing a professional job of it -- unlike most of the other so-called 'reporting' these days which is actually either op-ed or advertising.

PA32R 07-05-2009 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdb (Post 113927)
It's newsworthy in that the journalist is attempting to remain as neutral as possible while keeping some media spotlight on the story. I don't know about you but it seems to me that the brighter the light shone on this dorkus the sooner people will see him for what he is.

I think your comments are a bit unfair to the reporter, who looks to me to be doing a professional job of it -- unlike most of the other so-called 'reporting' these days which is actually either op-ed or advertising.

I disagree in this instance. While I don't like op-ed and advertising disguised as news, and in politics for example I respect neutrality, this is none of that.

When something is clearly impossible and is being reported on as if it's factual to a public that is in no position to do the appropriate research it's the reporter's job to fact check.

What if she reported that someone had succeeded in creating a device that, once wound, would produce useable power with no further input due to some mechanical contrivance? What about an instance of alien abduction? Either is as likely as getting 136.85 miles per gallon (explicitly NOT MPGe) out of E85 in a Mustang (this is a number directly off the "Test Data" page of HP2g's web site Hp2g.com).

Her "neutrality" gives HP2g credibility it doesn't deserve.

SVOboy 07-06-2009 01:21 AM

The garage entry has been deleted again. Hopefully this will be the last time.

Coyote X 07-06-2009 02:21 AM

How about a filter that replaces links to that idiots web site with something else so he doesn't get traffic from here? If he can't get links from here or any other benefit then maybe he will go away :thumbup:

Just keeping a working link on this site makes his page look better so I say any link to that site should be automatically changed to a site or even an old thread on here making fun of that stupid car.

SVOboy 07-06-2009 02:22 AM

Might as well let him get the traffic since nothing we say about him is good

Frank Lee 07-06-2009 02:53 AM

Speaking of the Top 10 List (which I ordinarily never look at) the Citroen at #6 seems a bit suspicious to me. ONE fuel log entry with a bogus date? Does that car really weigh that little?

How to keep the riff-raff outta that list?

rbtree 07-06-2009 10:53 PM

I just joined this forum, mainly to post about Palmear. I recently heard of him on a stock market message board. He recently partnered up with a real stinker of a company that's supposedly gonna build the "Verde", with his engine installed. Doug's latest claim is that he has 300,000 orders for motors. And just Friday, he convinced the CEO of Poet, the largest ethanol maker, to partner up with him. Even got him to pose in front of the Mustang. Dunno how he manages stuff like this, including getting all the press.

Thanks to all here who have contributed their thoughts. I've found other critical info elsewhere, but all has helped. I've put links over on the stock message board. This stock, by the way, is Revenge Designs, symbol RVGD. Its CEO is smellier than Doug. Nothing he's projected has come to pass. The stock trades at .0003.

I'm liking the forum, as well. I've always been economy minded, to some degree. My bro has several old VW's, incuding one TDI that he's putting in either an old Rabbit, or one of his Golf's. I forget which...

evolutionmovement 07-06-2009 10:56 PM

Imagine if this weasel actually used his ability to promote a real product that's languishing in obscurity? Damn, I could use him for my book!

Allch Chcar 07-07-2009 03:06 PM

Even if he's crazy I'm getting the Emissions data he's got and using it. Passed without a Cat, the guys at Ranger power sports will love this.

He probably realized no matter how efficient it is unless it gets better MPG it doesn't matter to most people. So he spun it upside down like a top. I'll stick with fueleconomy.gov stats for this, E85 cars only use 1/3 of the Oil that gasoline cars do. Sure there's only 15% Gasoline in the mix, you have to count production.

rbtree 07-07-2009 06:42 PM

Hilarious faux "press release"
 
that someone on the Revenge stock forum came up with...Enjoy!


>>>>>>>>>>>DECATUR, IN -- (Marketwire) -- 07/03/09 -- President/CEO Peter Collorafi of Revenge Designs Inc. (PINKSHEETS: RVGD), a specialty car designer and production assembler, is pleased to announce that Mr. Douglas Pelmear, President/CEO of HP2G LLC,
has developed another major automotive milestone.

When Doug showed the prototype engine to me,it knocked me on my rear,said Peter Collorafi of Revenge Designs.We where excited about the E85 engine,but this technology gets behind some major mileage and power.

Savvy investors may have already guessed the new fuel source is natural gas.Burning human natural gas has been a challenge right from the start,says Doug Pelmear of HP2G.We had leakage/odor issues,storage issues,flashing of flatulence,pressure problems,etc. We were about to give up,when we hit on the design that turned it all around,the supply as you go seal pants.

To make the supply as you go seal pants a reality,we had to borrow from some already existing technology.The first problem solved was the ass to engine feed problem.We are using a double seal O-ring design we borrowed from Morton Thiokol's design used on the NASA space shuttle engines.We figured those guys know how to contain some gas,so we jumped on that one.

The next major breakthough was the use of an integrated guide cone built into the pants.When you sit down on the feed tube located on the seat,the cone automatically guides the tube into the double seal O-ring causing an instant gas tight seal.We got this idea from the refueling planes the US Air Force uses to fuel jets in flight.The idea was so simple,it was hard to believe we had overlooked it before.Some of our test subjects have reported some slight discomfort upon fuel line engagement,but we have found that with only a few days use,one developes an ass callous which makes insertion eventually painless.A small price to pay for huge fuel economy.

We also developed an excess capacity tank under the hood.The tank acts as a buffer between you and the engine.When you are producing excess gas,the overage is stored for future use.No waste of gas here my friend.It also provides fuel when you're production is running dry so to speak.

At this time the driver is the fueling person.We are working on a "multiple tap" system to allow all passengers to participate in fueling the engine,but it is still in design phase.

Mileage and fuel economy are also highly dependent upon the individual and personal diet.We recommend a high starch
diet heavy in beans and broccoli.We have also had great results with bell peppers and soda consumption.We have found that every person knows what foods are producers for them.You may want to seek out that stinky friend of yours,because when this technology hits the market,they will be in high demand.

There are so many future innovations on the drawing board for our technology.A plug for your seal pants so no gas is lost when you're in public.A sulphur scrubber for odorless exhaust fumes.Home use applications.The possibilities are unlimited.

We can hardly wait to get these people going,says Peter Collorafi of Revenge Designs.I can't wait to tell OPEC
to stick it where the sun don't shine,cause that's just what we have done!

Katana 07-08-2009 04:59 AM

I know that's a wind-up press release but liquid natural gas engines already exist, and i remember watching an episode of Top Gear a few years ago where they tested a standard petrol car, a car running on LNG from cow pats, and one running on LNG made from human waste in a drag race (well it is top gear).
Petrol creamed the gas ones, but cow beat human, probably a youtube clip of it somewhere.

This hp2g bull****, doesn't america have a department that investigates false or misleading advertising?
If this guy tried to sell it in the UK the advertising standards agency and the office of fair trading would be on his ass.

Frank Lee 07-08-2009 05:14 AM

The media is so stupid here, they give him free air time and press coverage! :rolleyes:

robchalmers 07-08-2009 07:16 AM

so let me get this right - you sit there in your car with your special pants on and a double sealed tube up your ass and whenever you blow out or drop out something the methane etc magically runs the engine??

its not too hard to see what he's shovelling + no matter how good the economy is I don't want to generate an ass callous

re:top ten citreon - thats the weight in Kg, simple mistake on his part. At the BP eco Drive Citreons where getting similar mileage and they have to be stock vehicles, it is feasible

Frank Lee 07-08-2009 07:34 AM

Re: Citroen: good to know, thanks.

rbtree 07-10-2009 02:53 AM

This came out today:

Fulton County Expositor

One comment is surely wrong:
"Developer Doug Pelmear, who also holds several patents on the revolutionary engine, expects to be in production in about 120 days, he said last week"

Palmear does have a patent for his engine bridle, but so far has only claimed to have filed for patents for this new "magic motor"


Most of this has to be BS.......Hard to see how he could be conning so many people.

Frank Lee 07-10-2009 03:11 AM

Quote:

The average family drives about 8,000 miles a year. At a current average cost of $2.50 per gallon they would spend only about $181 per year for fuel.
I especially love that quote. GAWD people are stupid! :mad:

This dingus just got schooled by me too. And I'm getting less polite about it.

rbtree 07-11-2009 05:28 PM

Here's a rather long radio interview Dougie just did. God, this guy is one helluva self promoter. If ya'll can stomach listening, a lot can be gleaned, from the things this charlatan says..or doesn't say...

Friday

What a joker....

He hems and haws, stammers, doesn't give many straight answers.

first he says he has 312000 orders, then, when asked what an engine will cost, he stammers, "Well, we're just getting started, we're new at this, we don't have all the costs nailed down yet..."...or words to that effect.

Says he needed the X Prize money to ramp up....yet he's now hired about 20-25 people, and has a mess of motors to work on....where would the money come from to do all this? How could he pay all the parts suppliers--he said they won't be making anything, just assembling.....

He did say he did the Vegas trip on 39 gallons of "gas" Yep, prolly he did, which didn't include another 200 gallons of ethanol....which would be about right--close to 20 mpg....tho that's prolly too high given the btu rating of ethanol is so low.

That radio host guy is an idiot as well....

PA32R 07-11-2009 06:18 PM

I don't get it. He has to realize that at some point he will be exposed. I can't figure out what he might think is his exit strategy.

Frank Lee 07-11-2009 11:42 PM

He will bilk as many "investors" as much as he can, for as long as he can, then disappear without having produced so much as one engine. He will have many excuses along the way for the lack of engines or keeping any sort of schedule: changing business plans, the economy, the price of oil, the availability of E85, El Nino, Obama's stimulus, you freekin name it.

Kinda reminds me of the Moller Air Car. That silly sum***** has been at it for what- 40 years???- he has no intention of ever producing it. The Air Car is Moller's "career"; it is a way to pull in investor dollars and if it never leaves the development stage, so much the better.

PA32R 07-11-2009 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 115169)
He will bilk as many "investors" as much as he can, for as long as he can, then disappear without having produced so much as one engine. He will have many excuses along the way for the lack of engines or keeping any sort of schedule: changing business plans, the economy, the price of oil, the availability of E85, El Nino, Obama's stimulus, you freekin name it.

I guess that passes the Sherlock Holmes criterion, i.e., when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth.

It seems bizarre that he thinks he won't wind up in prison at worst, bankrupted by shareholder lawsuits at best.

Christ 07-11-2009 11:47 PM

He has another identity in a non-extradition country.

Formula413 07-12-2009 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA32R (Post 115121)
I don't get it. He has to realize that at some point he will be exposed. I can't figure out what he might think is his exit strategy.

That's what I don't get either.

The last time this car came up I think someone did the math and determined that there isn't even enough energy in the fuel to produce the numbers he is claiming, assuming he could somehow increase the efficiency of an ICE from it's usual ~25% to 100%. Are investors really giving this guy money? What the heck is really going on here?

evolutionmovement 07-12-2009 11:15 AM

Fools and their money are soon parted. There's certainly no correlation between money and intelligence. This guy's a weasel, but I feel trouble having sympathy for idiots that blindly believe these outrageous claims when even uncommon sense should at least make them suspicious enough to look into it. Just an expensive lesson, providing they actually learn from the experience, which they probably won't. My only real issue is that it's pretty much guaranteed that this weasel isn't going to do anything good with the money—just buy himself some expensive junk. If he donated the money to charity or created his own, I'd say all power to him.

Frank Lee 07-12-2009 11:46 AM

Nope. I don't care if he does give it to a good charity. It's still bad money obtained by deception.

Christ 07-12-2009 12:08 PM

So this is kinda how it works...

I had a Ducati bike that was in not-so-great condition.

I kept getting offers for $900, $1000, $500, etc.

I knew it was worth more than that, obviously.

To create better bids, I lied to those bidding. Not about the bike, about the other bidders.

"Will you take $500?"

"No... the bike's highest bid is $1600"

"Let me look it over again... Ok, I've got $1650 cash"

Nothing has changed about the bike, but the bidder's attitude (and thus, bid) changes.

The point is that you can interest people by talking up your figures. This guy is saying 312,000 orders... maybe that will get him the attention to get more "orders". Saying a really high MPG number obviously got him the attention he wanted, look at how many threads and replies are around because of this guy. He's a household name when it comes to people like us, and not even a good one!

So, basically, he could be inflating his numbers just for more market attention so that he can make a faster money share.

Then again, he could be telling the truth... 312,000 fools could really have bought into this thing.

PA32R 07-12-2009 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christ (Post 115254)
So this is kinda how it works...

I had a Ducati bike that was in not-so-great condition.

I kept getting offers for $900, $1000, $500, etc.

I knew it was worth more than that, obviously.

To create better bids, I lied to those bidding. Not about the bike, about the other bidders.

"Will you take $500?"

"No... the bike's highest bid is $1600"

"Let me look it over again... Ok, I've got $1650 cash"

Nothing has changed about the bike, but the bidder's attitude (and thus, bid) changes.

The point is that you can interest people by talking up your figures. This guy is saying 312,000 orders... maybe that will get him the attention to get more "orders". Saying a really high MPG number obviously got him the attention he wanted, look at how many threads and replies are around because of this guy. He's a household name when it comes to people like us, and not even a good one!

So, basically, he could be inflating his numbers just for more market attention so that he can make a faster money share.

Then again, he could be telling the truth... 312,000 fools could really have bought into this thing.

I agree that that's possible, but the question is what he plans to do when he finally has to deliver something? Declare bankruptcy and hope for the best having tried to hide a bunch of money offshore? Leave the country?

It was easier for Madoff, all he had to do was deliver money, which he got from new investors. This enabled him to keep the scam going for years. Pelmear has to deliver engines. Is he really going to say "gee, I thought you guys understood that the mileage figures don't count the ethanol being burned"? His site explicitly denies that that's what he's doing.

He's not a total moron, as best I can tell he's a reasonably skilled speed shop operator. He must have a plan of some sort to get himself out of the mess he's creating. :confused:

SVOboy 07-12-2009 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA32R (Post 115272)
I agree that that's possible, but the question is what he plans to do when he finally has to deliver something? Declare bankruptcy and hope for the best having tried to hide a bunch of money offshore? Leave the country?

It was easier for Madoff, all he had to do was deliver money, which he got from new investors. This enabled him to keep the scam going for years. Pelmear has to deliver engines. Is he really going to say "gee, I thought you guys understood that the mileage figures don't count the ethanol being burned"? His site explicitly denies that that's what he's doing.

He's not a total moron, as best I can tell he's a reasonably skilled speed shop operator. He must have a plan of some sort to get himself out of the mess he's creating. :confused:

This is basically how venture capital on the internet works. You get a lot of money to make a site and say "well figure out how to make money later, once we have spent all the investors money."

However, when the time comes they dont make money and the investors end up paying for the tech nerds to drink cafe lattes while they fiddle around with whatever since nothing of their own is on the line.

So, taking orders before being product construction, I am sure, will allow for money to live while production is "delayed" and "problems" are "reanalyzed," etc.

And no one will question out their because of misguided pride in american industry, when really the only industry employed is misdirection, boasting, and deception.


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