Mer-Chevy Project: Biofuel 40mpg Pickup
 

Well, it's about time I start a dedicated thread to my S10's conversion to diesel.

I am really just at the very start of it, but here goes.


I know it's silly, but I did want to try out the hubcaps!

http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...C_0421/web.jpg

What do you think of Mercedes diesel hubcaps on a Chevy?

Aero-improvement? Or just more rotating mass?

Second post on Epic thread!

I'm going to have to say no on the Benz caps, not because you shouldn't have them, but because most people will take you for a crazy man.

Just noticed that rust; how bad is it? Might be a reason to buy another truck . . ..

Yeah, I am still trying to figure out if I really want to do the swap on this truck or another one.

I sorta like how the hub caps match the white truck though!

I think the caps are a nice touch, but should be used on the vehicle that you put the swap in.

You could also "plug" the holes in the caps, not that it would make too much difference.

At the very least, hearing a diesel S-10, and seeing the 'cedes caps, someone might actually put 2 and 2 together and ask some questions.

Plus, you can re-badge it as an "S-Class" LOL.

Been waiting for this thread to pop up. :)

Oh, and rocker panels and cab corners are pretty inexpensive. And you should lower it 6/6, my friend had one lowered that much. It was fun going over speed bumps.

I dig the hubcaps, and make sure to get one of those "Powered by Mercedes-Benz" stickers for your rear window once the conversion is done.

Like this?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...eL._SS400_.jpg

Here's a diesel S-10, 1st gen. This will have nothing in common with what you're going for, other than the engine fuel type. Still awesome. Air ride too. Sorry it's not embedded, I suck at html.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3olWxhjBXo8

edit: apparently EM does the embedding for me. :) yeay!

What engine are you thinking about? there should be at least a few out there that bolt right in but off the top of my head I'm not sure what they are.

If you can find me a diesel engine that will "bolt right in", I will bow before your Ecomodding Powers!

I have a Mercedes 2.4L 4 cylinder diesel engine sitting in my garage right now. It is almost the exact same size as an S10 2.2L gas engine.

Of course it is NOT going to match the engine mounts or the transmission. Making all that work is going to be the fun part. (I also have no idea how to make the speedometer work right!)

what are the power curves of your two engines? might want to keep your current tranny if possible, you might also check out kits for addapting other engines in to S-10 trucks, it's an Issusu truck (right?) so you might want to see if they did make a diesel...

Eggasctly.
Just grab a manual trans from a 65 or earlier (IIRC) Mercedes diesel so that way you only have to fab a crossmember for the trans and then use an adapter/lengthen or shorten the driveaxle. The motor mounts are in the same rough locations IIRC so that shouldn't been too bad. That said, like Ryland mentioned, it'd probably be easier to grab a diesel out of a 85 or earlier S10. Given GMs track record it'd almost certainly be bolt and go.

Engine mounts should be pretty easy to fab up. And trans cross members are easy as pie to make. Have you looked at after market gauges, that would be way easier than trying to get the stock gauges to work properly.

Take the clock (the big round face part of the speedometer) and cable from the Merc and graft it into the S10 cluster.
!?Poof?!
Instant speedo
The tires should come out to approximately the same diameter.

OR

Put it all together grafting the Merc trans cable to the S10 clock and get your local speed shop to re-calibrate the speedo to match the speed.

15th post in another epic thread!

I vote for the Merc hubcaps also. And "S-Class". :D

I like the project idea. A Benz four cylinder diesel and four speed dropped into a S-10. The engine is legendary for its durability and being straight mechanical, it requires no computer brain surgery.

I myself like the funky panache of the five-cylinder 617.952 (you have to learn Mercedesspeak) engine at an idle, but at 125 HP, it is probably too powerful for a fangs-out MPG project.

There are all sorts of mod kits for S-10s. I’d start with a practical 3”/5” lowering (slam in sport truck parlance) kit. This is low enough to get you a noticeable improvement in MPG but will not high center you on every dead dog on the road.

Air dams and “ground effects” (side skirts) kits galore are available off the shelf.

One thing to consider. The drive shaft will have to be specially made. Benz drive shafts use a DIN flex plate (three big rubber bushings) each end at each end where the GM axle uses a SAE U-Joint. The DIN joint is a bit touchy about alignment where the SAE is usually A-OK if the alignment mismatch does not exceed five degrees.

In any project the fewer “wheels” you have to re-invent, the better the project. The wealth of off-the –shelf stuff available for the S-10 makes it a favorite among project builders.

Don’t forget a tonneau or fastback fairing. Very effective in improving MPG.

S-10's sit pretty level, so if you lower the back more than the front, the back will be lower than the front and might cause adverse aero affects underneath. I have a friend who did a 3/3 and it rode really good, and my other friend did the 6/6, riding in that thing was sick.

Rust repair
 

Ben - check the .pdf here:
ftp://www.rustrepair.com:24/s10.82.pdf

They have 1/4 and rockers for your truck, and if you go here:
Auto Body Parts, Body Panel, Quarter Panels, Rocker, Door Skins, Floor Pans
They have instructions for both welding and glue-on panels.

Ben, if you can, get good quality panels. Cheap Chinese ones are out of shape most of the time and are super thin so they dent really easy.

After messing around with that Mercedes hub cap, I realized how the crummy plastic rim covers I have would be a great start for some aero hub caps!

The master plan on the entire project includes:
Diesel engine swap (and running on Bio-diesel)
Aero-hubcaps
Aero-Cap (possibly hinged, more than likely to be fiberglass)
Lowering the vehicle? (not sure about that one. I lowered the back 3 inches with blocks a while back, but then I couldn't load up my electric motorcycle anymore, the bed hit the bump stops. Maybe airbags?)
Different differential gears (I don't know too much about this, but I think with the extra diesel torque, I could go to a little higher gear in back.

I have a Mercedes 240D sitting in my driveway right now, to use whatever parts off of it I need. The 4 cylinder diesel is almost the exact same size as the S10s 2.2l engine. Unfortunately, only the automatic transmission was available in the US for the 240D.

Unless I can dig up a 240D MANUAL transmission (and customize the driveshaft) the current plan it to pull the diesel engine and figure out what adapter plate would be needed to mate it to the truck's transmission.


I did do a search for the diesel S10s a while back. They were made for about 2 years, and basically DON'T exist anymore.
That's sort of the the starting point as to why I am doing this project. There ARE NO decent (not HUGE) diesel pickup trucks in this country! The old Mercedes diesel engines have a great track record - so, put the two together!

There are a limited number of 240Ds around with 4-speed manuals.

Check out MercedesShop - Mercedes Benz Parts and Technical Information

There are a couple of ecomodders who hang out there.

They have a diesel car forum and I believe there is a guy in there putting a M-B diesel in a Chevy pickup.

They have sources for M-B manual transmissions and parts.

I'm thinking hard about picking up a 84-85 300 CD (W123) and converting it to a more modern five speed. I may have to order the manual flywheel from Germany. Not sure yet. M-B automatics do not have locking torque converters. They last like the engine but feel slushy and kill FE. Mating the M-B four-banger to an American transmission will require custom machining.

Air bags are a necessity if you intend to put heavy loads in the truck. Air bag kits for S-10s are an off-the-shelf item.

Chevy axles can be had with ratios from 2.73 to 4.10.

IIRC 61-65, maybe even earlier, Mercedes diesels came with manual transmissions that'll bolt right up, at least according to shopforum (you would probably want to do more research if you pursued that), and most of those earlier cars were manual as opposed to automatic. You should be able to find a rusted out pre-66 manual Merc for ~$500 or so sooner or later.

mmmm....another delicious Epic Thread....

I wish I had the capital to drop in the European 2.0L diesel into my Corolla, direct bolt up, that would be sweet. I look forward to the development of this thread.

Please make sure to take lots of pictures, or like your Ev-metro thread, lots of videos...:D

I was doing some reading on MB diesels....I rather like the 2.7L I5 that gets stuffed in Sprinters. Has very nearly the same power as my 4.3, but in a crappy monster van gets the same mileage. It even weighs the same, so the stock suspension could handle it. And it's not too big to fit, so minimal mods to install. I'd bet it could break 27mpg in my truck. Now to find one that isn't $5000....and doesn't come with the van.

If you want one of those i5's look for the earlier model years. The later one's Chrysler did something to it to make them crappy. I forget what it was, but i heard the third year versions of those engines weren't that great. Could be just some randomness I heard though.

Here's a conversion somebody did on a similar pickup. An I-5 in a Ranger.

Ford Ranger Mercedes Turbo Diesel Powered

An S-10 is lighter than a Ranger and has a bigger engine compartment. Should be a piece of cake.

Or, find one that _is_ $5000, and _does_ come w/ the van... take what you need, then part out/sell the van... or use it for a mobile storage shed... better yet, use it's body as a starting point for some serious aero modding... imagine the streamlined monster you could build from a 20" box van?

In all honesty, I can't blame you for not doing those things that I just said... I wouldn't either, but it's a nice thought. Actually, for the right price, I'd probably do it, but the right price for me doesn't usually include a dollar sign, if you know what I mean.

If one were to assume that 1997 Merc Ranger was a base model, it weighed in at about 3000lbs. From the same website I get about 3000lbs for the same year and style S10. What Ben has clocks in just under 2900lbs. Be glad you have a light chassis to start with, my ZR2 is around 3800lbs. I still want to swap a diesel though. For the offroad torque, not the mileage ;)

Ben, did you loose interest in this? BUMP!

Yes, we need closure on whether the hubcap conundrum has been resolved or not

I am still interested in the project.

I have been busy with other things as well.

So far this spring, I have been working on a greywater toilet system for my house. (Now saving me about $270 a year!)

I have also been trying to get my Electro-Metro to the point that I can use it as a little longer range transportation. I have had some problems with my used batteries and charger. I need to have something else to get around in before I make my truck un-drivable for an unknown amount of time!

The Mercedes hub caps are the wrong size for the truck, although just playing around with that did lead me to create some flat aluminum covers for it.

I also need to rebuild my garage this summer, SO, it's going to be a busy one!

Chevy made some P-30 (I think) bread delivery trucks that used a 4cyl. Cummins 4BT turbo diesel. They mated it to a standard Chevy trans (700R4). Guys mate them to an Aisin AX-15 5 speed tranny's for their Jeeps as well.

Don't know if it fits into S-10's. You would probably need to run the smallest gears possible in your rear end & probably bigger tires to maximize Fuel Economy.

Don

Like this? Well, it's a full size, but same swap.
4BT Cummins Turbo Diesel in an 05 Silverado (with pictures!) - FSC Forum

Just so happens, I have an Isuzu Diesel out of a Chevy Luv sitting under my carport. It has the clutch style flywheel, also. Paid $800.00 for it, to put on my band sawmill I am building, slowly :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Project Mer-Chevy back on track!
 

Today was a big day on the Diesel S10 project!

I FINALLY had a Sunday to myself! (Way too busy at work lately, and other projects..)

So, last night I called up my buddy Rich, and e-mailed a few other folks to see if anyone else could come out for the engine pull.

This morning Rich, and Tim (who you may remember welded the Electro-Metro from INSIDE the engine compartment..) came over so we could pull the 4-cylinder diesel engine from the Mercedes 240D.

These guys are animals of car destruction. The showed up at 9am and we had the engine out before noon. I had done hardly any prep work on the car before they got there!

http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...12589356180001

Rich brought his fine selection of tools, including the engine hoist and car ramps.

Here, Tim stands next to the freshly pulled 2.4L diesel engine (with attached automatic transmission)
http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...12589356240001

Since we made quick work of the first engine, we then took a lunch break. Tim let me drive his Prius to drive into town for lunch. It was a little weird. It's a nice car, but I typically don't have an engine, just an electric motor, when I make that trip! (Please see the Electro-Metro build thread...)

Back from lunch, we went to work on removing the 2.2L 4-cylinder gas engine from the S10. It was a little more work in that we couldn't just cut cables at random, and I wanted to keep useful things like steering, coolant and washer resevoirs, etc.

We ended up having to remove the driveshaft, pull the engine part way out, remove the engine mounts, then pull the engine the rest of the way out.

We did remove the transmission from the diesel engine, but it was getting dark by the time the gas engine was out, so that one still has the tranny on it.

One good thing I did find out about the diesel transmission is that it already has an "adapter plate" of sorts between the engine and transmission. Apparently, this is something they did to make their various engines and transmissions a little more interchangable. For me, it means I have a head-start on a way to connect the Mercedes diesel engine with the Chevy manual transmission.

What's next?
It's time to remove the manual tranny from the S10 gas engine, and then start figuring out and adapter plate design.

After pulling both engines, the diesel DOES look pretty monsterous compared to the gas engine. I measured, and it should fit fine, but it will be a bit of work making everything line up!

Also, the diesel has a really low oil pan on the far FRONT of the engine, and the steering went BEHIND that. On the truck, the oil pan is in the BACK of the engine and the steering goes in FRONT of it. Figuring how all that is going to work will be fun!

Again, the goal of this project is to have a utility vehicle capable of going long distances with one or two people, getting very good fuel economy, while sometimes carrying a heavy/bulky load or towing, and be able to run on biofuels.

A small-engine bio-diesel pickup truck meets that bill nicely!


http://gallery.me.com/benhdvideoguy/...12589356300001
(Chevy 2.2L gasoline engine, with Tim for scale.)

I also realized that I have videos on YouTube related to this project that I never posted in this thread!

Here they are!

New Years video resolution - 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVeVFurUtzM

January 21, 2009
Found a Diesel Donor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7-aiTLGLTU

Also, on the "Getting off Gasoline" subject, I purchased a G.E. Electrak battery-powered electric riding lawn mower this summer. It still needs more work, but I mower my lawn several times with it and would like to hook up a snowblower on it for the winter.

I've got a 4 speed that goes to that engine, Ben. I'm way too far from you, though.

If you check on PeachParts - Mercedes Parts & Tech Info (I have the same UN there), you'll likely find someone close that not only has the manual transmission you need, or can tell you a slough of other transmissions that can be used (such as the gearbox from early BMW 5 and 7 series) for your project, but also someone that might be interested in buying parts from your MB donor car, setting you ahead a bit further.

If you're going to be in this area (NEPA) ever, shoot me a PM and we can talk about the 4 speed that goes to that engine. I have the same 62HP OM616 engine sitting in my barn right now, waiting for Cara to come off the road. (Potentially.)

Donor MB didn't look too awful bad... maybe stick that engine back in there, get the sawzall out, and make a homemade ute?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...5eff0e6a6d.jpg

That's almost cool.

I like utes. :)