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-   -   Mitsubishi Mirage is, er, meh... (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/mitsubishi-mirage-er-meh-25426.html)

Arragonis 04-01-2013 05:19 PM

Mitsubishi Mirage is, er, meh...
 
Mitsubishi Mirage | Auto Express

Quote:

The Mitsubishi Mirage is an efficient supermini that 's designed to rival value-for-money city cars and superminis such as the Dacia Sandero, Kia Rio and Fiat Panda. It comes well-equipped and is available with a choice of 1.0-litre or 1.2-litre three-cylinder petrol engines, both of which emit less than 100g/km of CO2. However, the Mirage isn't without flaws. The vague steering and poor handling place it at the bottom of the class for driving dynamics, while the interior looks and feels cheap. It's also quite expensive to buy and lacks the refinement and practicality of the best cars in the class.
2 stars out of 5. Hmm.

MetroMPG 04-01-2013 06:29 PM

In researching this car, I've read literally dozens and dozens of reviews in the last couple of months, and have learned we need to be wary of reviewers' opinions, and make up our own minds.

It's easy to find multiple examples where reviewers literally contradict one anothers' views, coming to polar opposite conclusions about the exact same feature/characteristic!

It borders on hilarious. So, just for fun I put together a list of examples concerning the Mirage from the professional reviewers: Why you should take car reviews with a giant grain of salt. :D

I'm not kidding: one will say the suspension is too soft; another will say it has a wonderfully comfortable ride for such a little car. One hates the plasticky interior, while another praises it for its "wipe down" practicality & durability. The list goes on and on.

(I have to admit though I do find it funny when reviewers criticise cheap econoboxes for being made with cheap materials, and for not handling like sports cars!)

All that said, the car is being criticized for a few things more often than not: its mushy handling/steering, its bland styling & spartan interior.

Sounds pretty much like what they'd have have said about my 15 year old Metro/Firefly.

RobertISaar 04-01-2013 06:36 PM

this is why the only real online research that i do is looking for interior pictures on cars.com.... then if i like what i see, i'll find a local example.

anything else is too much guesswork weeding out the accurate comments.

PressEnter[] 04-01-2013 07:24 PM

Yes, the reviews are all over the place, but reading between the lines, the negatives seem fairly minor, at least to me. I wouldn't expect it to be an exciting car, but for what it is they seem to be on the right track.

pete c 04-02-2013 12:09 AM

You see this problem most in car mags such as R&T or C&D. They criticize econoboxes or minivans for not downshifting rapidly enough or having 0-60 times under 9 seconds.

They seem to have trouble putting away their Porsche measuring stick while testing a Dodge Caravan.

Frank Lee 04-02-2013 02:54 AM

Metro: ...and THAT is why I think Consumer Reports is only good for bird cage liner.

Arragonis 04-02-2013 05:12 AM

@Metro - agreed tests are all over the place. I just spotted it and noticed the new focus on your new car ;) Auto Express is one of those magazines to take with several barrels of salt.

There is a difference in the environment between NA and Europe too - the Mirage will have a torrid time here as the competition is far more fierce. A more in depth review from Honest John concludes with :

Quote:

Overall the Mirage is a competent and comfortable small car that's easy to drive and performs well in town and on the motorway. It does lack character though, something which similarly priced alternatives like the trio of the Volkswagen Up, SEAT Mii and Skoda Citigo certainly don't. The Mirage doesn't outdo them in terms of equipment or price either. So while it's a good little car, there's not much to make it stand out against the competition. There's plenty of quality for buyers after a small and affordable car and unfortunately the Mirage looks like it has its work cut out to get noticed.
Out of interest apart from the Spark what other competition does the Mirage have in NA ?

PressEnter[] 04-02-2013 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 364606)
Out of interest apart from the Spark what other competition does the Mirage have in NA ?

Not much, which is why I find it an interesting car. The Spark is the only 4-door rival, though if you wanted to stretch it, there's the Scion iQ. The new Nissan Versa Note sounds like it might be a competitor, but it hasn't been launched yet, either. Ford also says the Fiesta 1.0L turbo will be coming at some point, and that it will beat the Spark and iQ in combined driving mpg, which if true would be pretty impressive for something that size and power.

tjts1 04-02-2013 09:14 AM

The best thing you can say about this car is that it has round wheels.

Fat Charlie 04-02-2013 01:19 PM

Actually, the best thing you can say about it is that it seems to really hate burning gas.

It can't carry a 4x8 sheet, it doesn't seat 7, it can't do a quarter in under 10 seconds and it absolutely sucks at rock crawling. It also seems to really suck at burning gas. And that's what it was designed for.

Daox 04-02-2013 01:32 PM

Exactly Fat Charlie. The Mirage will have (not official yet) the best fuel economy of any non-hybrid vehicle sold in the US. Not only does it have a pretty great highway rating, the city rating also beats out any non-hybrid. That is saying something, especially to us. Estimated 44 mpg highway, thats only 1 mpg lower than my 04 Prius epa rating!

Fat Charlie 04-02-2013 01:38 PM

But without 13 cupholders, you know what CR is going to say about it.

Daox 04-02-2013 01:47 PM

Oh, and the Mirage costs roughly HALF of what a Prius does... It really is going to be a super low-cost to own / run car.

Miller88 04-02-2013 02:25 PM

They need to price it around $10k ... otherwise it won't sell.

Daox 04-02-2013 02:39 PM

Best guess right now is probably around $13k. But, we'll see! Currently the cheapest car you can get is the Versa sedan and its $13k+ after all the charges. I'm hoping they can beat that price.

I agree, they need to keep the price low for it to get noticed. Mitsu unfortunately is doing horrible in the US sales wise...

jakobnev 04-02-2013 02:50 PM

Who in their right mind would consider any other car than the Porsche Cayenne SS turbo Supercomfort trackday edition hybrid II?

Arragonis 04-02-2013 02:53 PM

Flippin typical - there I go posting about how it's going to fail here, yadda puff boo and what do I end up behind on my way home this afternoon ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7LvtXMOKyw

Looks nicer than I expected in the metal, and smaller than the pics suggest. Skinny tyres too :D. HD Video if you want a closer look.

Miller88 04-02-2013 04:16 PM

Are the figures on the scan gauge US gallons?

MetroMPG 04-02-2013 04:20 PM

That's too funny! (Video)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 364606)
Out of interest apart from the Spark what other competition does the Mirage have in NA ?

And that's just the thing: you guys have always had piles of cheap, cheerful, efficient econoboxes to choose from. We used to, and then they sort of went away. Now, maybe they're coming back.

So I can understand why interest in this car might perplex someone who has a lot more to choose from in this category.

(Slight correction: we've always been able to buy cheap econoboxes, but the efficient ones went away. The ones that remained grew larger, heavier and thirstier every year.)

NeilBlanchard 04-02-2013 04:37 PM

Two words explain this: jaded reviewers.

user removed 04-02-2013 05:26 PM

Interesting how Mazda and Mitsubishi decide to try the technology to make light small very efficient cars AFTER they loose the support of the parent companies Ford and Chrysler, at least in the US.

One more to watch and maybe rent for a road trip.

regards
Mech

Arragonis 04-02-2013 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller88 (Post 364673)
Are the figures on the scan gauge US gallons?

Imperial - I've entered fillups in Imp gallons and it has mostly been 0.2 gallons or less out tank to tank but the last 2 have been at the outside of that range - i.e. the worse matching. AVG when I got home this PM was 68.1 which is pretty normal for winter. I've lost my "Hypermiler" status due to crawling queues later in the journey due to roadworks.

Going TO work gets about 55-60 as it is uphill - 60 is a good day.

I have a few vids on my Youtube thing, I'll maybe do a few new ones now it is spring - note the snow on the hills behind... :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 364676)
That's too funny! (Video)

I couldn't believe it myself. I bet I either see hundreds of them now, or none at all ever again ;) As I tapped it is smaller than I expected, will it survive the roads in North America ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard (Post 364681)
Two words explain this: jaded reviewers.

Maybe. More likely the extra competition.

Arragonis 04-02-2013 06:18 PM

Just to get a comparison I selected a cheap car on sale in the UK market - the Dacia Sandero from that well know engineering mecca of Romania.

As cars they don't compare well, the Mirage is small and the Sandero is about the same size as the original Mk1 Ford Focus and so is substantially bigger.

So what about costs - well the "Base" Mirage is headlined at 7,999 for the 1.0 3cyl 70hp model. I can't find that on the website though, the cheapest I can find is the 1.0 3cyl 70hp model for 8,999. The combined MPG is 67.3 (imp). Top speed 107, 0-60 in 13.6.

Sandero base model is a 1.2 petrol, does 48 MPG combined, 0-60 in 14.5 and 102 MPH for (gasp) 5,999.

Sandero Diesel does 70 MPG combined, 12.1 0-60 and 107 MPH for 8,395.

Sandero 1.2 Turbo (TCE) does 56.5 MPG combined, 11.1 0-60 and 109 MPH for 7,395.

The base 5,999 Sandero is 2K or 3K less than the Mirage, the other models are about the same (once you beat up the sales people a little) but they are bigger and have better performance and similar or better economy.

Guess why I think the Mirage will be rare here :D

Miller88 04-02-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic (Post 364693)
Interesting how Mazda and Mitsubishi decide to try the technology to make light small very efficient cars AFTER they loose the support of the parent companies Ford and Chrysler, at least in the US.

One more to watch and maybe rent for a road trip.

regards
Mech

Ford and Chryco were negative influences - and they (Mazda, Mitsu) inherited bad habits from both.

War_Wagon 04-02-2013 10:34 PM

Any magazine reviewer is just some guy that drove it. He may call himself an "expert", but his only real claim to that is he has driven a lot of cars as part of what he does for a living. By that definition, I would be an "expert". But the first thing I would tell someone is that they have to drive one for themselves. I might think something rides like a bag of hammers, but if they like it, then it's the car for them. The only vehicle review information I find useful is based on actual scientific data - fuel mileage, and number of complaints/mechanical issues reported vs number of cars sold. If it gets good FE, and is reliable, then the reviews are about as useful as a screen door on a submarine, because you have to try it for yourself at that point to see if you'd want to buy one. :snail:

Slimshade73 04-02-2013 10:54 PM

Yeah Man!
 
[QUOTE=Fat Charlie;364643]Actually, the best thing you can say about it is that it seems to really hate burning gas.

"I like it a lot" - Dumb and Dumber......Good stuff dude....hope the rest of America wakes up....No chance!

MetroMPG 04-02-2013 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arragonis (Post 364704)
So what about costs - well the "Base" Mirage is headlined at 7,999 for the 1.0 3cyl 70hp model. I can't find that on the website though

That may be because it's a limited time 1000 discount to goose initial sales. They did the same thing in Australia.

The most hilarious thing about the 1.0L version of the car in the UK: you can only get one in white! :D Like we needed a reason to compare it to the Ford Model T!

Of course I'm so happy about the specs of the 1.2L car coming here, I haven't gotten around to whining about Mitsu depriving us of the 1.0L version in North America. Only Europe and Japan get the 1.0 choice.

user removed 04-02-2013 11:31 PM

I stopped reading car mags a long time ago. Wasn't interested in spending 100k on some mega hyper sports car that did 0-100 in 2.5 seconds, or another 100k hyper luxus mobile that brushed my teeth and played videos, while dialing all of my millionaire clients phone numbers for me so I could get fat and have a heart attack.

I'd rather ride a bike.

regards
Mech

niky 04-02-2013 11:48 PM

I think it all depends on what you can get where you are. Dacia is more common in Europe. There are a lot of cheap small cars available there with excellent dynamics and refinement. The price for a Mirage over there is also affected by the fact that it's produced in Thailand and shipped all the way there.

In Asia, Thai production is a bonus for the price. The competition over here is mostly small Asian-market Nissans, the Honda Brio, the Koreans and the Indians. Thailand has the ability to undercut the Koreans in price, while offering similar quality.

This is likely why reviews from this side of the world are more favorable, like mine:
Review: Mitsubishi Mirage GLS MT - Drives | TopGear.com.ph

Make no mistake... it's still horribly soft. I've driven one at 100 mph (not km/h, mph) on an elevated highway and it was all over the place. But personally, for a city car, that's not a big deal, and at the extremes on the racetrack, this soft suspension did not lead to loss of adhesion at the rear axle, like it does with similarly soft cars from Hyundai and Toyota.

The only variable I find myself disagreeing with people on is the steering. Yes, it's electric and light, with all of the debits that comes with, but it's not much worse than the best of its competitors here and better than some others.

Of course, there, they're comparing it to the likes of the Suzuki Swift... which isn't a fair comparison at all, as the Swift is a class bigger and just plain awesome at everything. :D That's like saying the Chevy Sonic sucks because it doesn't drive like a Ford Focus.

jakobnev 04-03-2013 11:46 AM

I'd like to see the following idea implemented: All reviewers are forced to pay, for example, 100 times the cost of gas used during a review to a fund. The fund then pays out per review-mile driven, so that the fund ends up money-neutral.

Might result in better marks for the cars we like! :thumbup:

niky 04-03-2013 11:52 AM

Those of us who drive a lot already pay. Only the first tank is free. And some manufacturers don't even fill the tanks before lending it out again. Borrow a big-engined sportscar and you'll be paying through the nose for a week's worth of driving, unless you hypermile... which is frustrating on something with three hundred to four hundred ponies. :p

Frustrating because hardcore hypermiling nets you the same economy you'd get in a Mirage if you were pinging off the rev limiter everywhere. :D

Jyden 04-03-2013 05:35 PM

One shuold look at:
- Buyng price
- Period of owning car
- Mpg, and yearly milage avarge need
- Taxes
- servicecost per year
- valueloss over owner period/years

And from that calculate the real price per mile for the car, and then choose the cheapest. A cheap car like the Dacia will most likely take a big hit on the resaleprice, and thus be expencive per mile in value loss, and if it also travels fewer mpg, and cost more in tax, it can be a bad buy, even though its cheap to com by in the first place.

Often it's not the cheapest car in price, that are the cheapest car to drive during for instance a 5 or 8 year period.

rmay635703 04-03-2013 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjts1 (Post 364616)
The best thing you can say about this car is that it has round wheels.

I have a feeling its got to be better than the 1970 subaru 360 I have and more refined than my 1981 comutacar.

I also have a feeling it surpasses the geo metro on several regards, though not necessarily MPG.

euromodder 04-04-2013 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 364738)
The most hilarious thing about the 1.0L version of the car in the UK: you can only get one in white! :D Like we needed a reason to compare it to the Ford Model T!

Actually, the Dacia Sandero that Arragonis compared it to, also comes in very few and non-metallic colours if you want the lowest possible sticker price.
White and blue.

Against most biased analysts and analysis, Dacia has shown that there is a hugely booming market for cheap-ish, no-nonsense cars in Europe.

They are filling the void left by the Japs and Koreans who were going up-market, after VW who hadn't built a Volks wagen in years.
VW came down to earth again with the up! - well, sort of - and it is selling very well.

euromodder 04-04-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 364744)
This is likely why reviews from this side of the world are more favorable, like mine:
Review: Mitsubishi Mirage GLS MT - Drives | TopGear.com.ph

Make no mistake... it's still horribly soft. I've driven one at 100 mph (not km/h, mph) on an elevated highway and it was all over the place.

I've had a 75 HP VW up! up to 160 kph (indicated) on a windy, wet, rainy day - just don't tell the dealer :rolleyes: - and it's got none of that horrible, mushy and uncertain feeling in the steering and suspension.

It shows you can make a budget car that also drives and handles well.

Xist 04-04-2013 09:17 AM

Aren't people paid to communicate hired on their ability to bring in money? People love beautiful and impractical things (I wonder why dating is so difficult) and people criticizing other people. On Saturday I went to dinner with my sister, her family, and a few of her friends, and all that I did was eat everyone else's leftovers (my sister did not actually order me any food). I had wanted to discuss some topics, but did not have the chance, as they busily talked about "comedians" that I do not find to be remotely humorous as they mock one person after another.

Anyway, the real question is: What is the Cd and what kind of mileage would it get with a full boat tail, belly pan, mirror delete, and pizza pans? :D

niky 04-04-2013 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by euromodder (Post 364919)
I've had a 75 HP VW up! up to 160 kph (indicated) on a windy, wet, rainy day - just don't tell the dealer :rolleyes: - and it's got none of that horrible, mushy and uncertain feeling in the steering and suspension.

It shows you can make a budget car that also drives and handles well.

Maybe if Mitsubishi had spent more on the suspension. The VW UP costs more than the Mirage, though, five door to five door... (out here).

As I've said... the chassis feels solid and predictable. The trouble is entirely in how soft the springs and bushings used are.

MetroMPG 04-04-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niky (Post 364744)
In Asia, Thai production is a bonus for the price. The competition over here is mostly small Asian-market Nissans, the Honda Brio, the Koreans and the Indians. [...]

This is likely why reviews from this side of the world are more favorable, like mine: Review: Mitsubishi Mirage GLS MT - Drives | TopGear.com.ph

Yup, context is everything.

And speaking of that: I see the Philippines motoring press just voted Mirage as Car of the Year.

Quote:

The trouble is entirely in how soft the springs and bushings used are.
Maybe I'm naive, but a "fix" at the manufacturing level shouldn't cost much at all. Some owners on the forum are already beginning to talk about suspension mods.

Frank Lee 04-04-2013 02:24 PM

Shouldn't cost anything. Spec a bigger roll bar, stiffer springs, harder durometer bushings, and presto.

Fat Charlie 04-04-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee (Post 364970)
Shouldn't cost anything. Spec a bigger roll bar, stiffer springs, harder durometer bushings, and presto.

Presto- the Mirage Evo!


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