Moody Diesel
 

In 1974 the United States was under an Arab oil embargo.gas got up to $4.00 a gallon 1974 prices,thats like $8.00 today.Nascar and NHRA car and engine builder Ralph Moody wanted todo something about it. he set about building a car that got great fuel mileage and the average person could afford.He took a Perkins desiel engine and a Mercury Capri body and married them together.the results were 84 miles to the gallon. Ralph contacted the U.S. Congress to tell them about the car.they said unless the car is EPA tested and certified,they are not interested.Ralph got a hold of the former head of the EPA.he came with all the nessassary test equipment. he put the car through all the tests.the results were."this car puts out 4 times less hydrocarbons than any thing tested so far.this is the cleanest vehical I've ever tested.bostered by this,Ralph anounced "we're taking it to Washington DC and parking it in front of the Capitol Steps.then the congressmen and senators have to look at it. Arab "biznessmen" got wind of this and offered 200 million for the car and it's patents.about 2 months later congress issued a statement" the Moody Diesel does not meet EPA requirments" and buried it.I would like to know what happened to this car,I went to the Popular Mechanics site that used to have the plans for it.it is now blank except for the heading.Ralph Moody has since passed on.and no he didn't take the money.he was the Moody in Holman-Moody who's Ford race cars ruled the race tracks in the 60's and 70's. 2 years before Ralph made a gasoline engine that got 63 mpg, no one was interested-- this is real and not fiction, check it out for your self search Moody Diesel and be prepared to be p.o'd

oh, I forgot to add this car is turbocharged and runs an alternator.this is what can be done when a genuwine automotive genious sets his mind to achieving the impossible. Ralph Moody was instrumental in the development of the Ford 427 side oiler engine, the Boss 428 and the 429 Shotgun engine

Sounds like a piece for an investigative journalist. Why don't you pitch it to the editor of a major newspaper?

Yes nice trolling. Low HP diesels in light cars DO get good MPG. But so do high-hp diesels, and that's what Americans care about, Hp and the enviroment. Mike Woods got 45 mpg in his Duramax-powered Mustang and could run mid 9s at 150mph in the quarter mile with nitrous and a different tune. Now that's progress. A riding lawnmower will get good mpg, but who wants to drive it on the freeway?

My suburban gets nearly 30mpg. In stock form vehicles like mine had no problem getting over 20mpg highway while nearly every thing else on the road at that time with a V8 managed about 10mpg.
What did the government do?
They saw it in there infinite wisdom to ban the sale of diesels in half ton trucks.

Good Lord sidebar and oilpan, do you want this to go to Unicorn land? I'm strongly reminded of "outsidethebox" a.k.a. Louis LaPointe and his Shell Opel thread...

Yes Moody made the diesel Capri conversion.
No Popular Mechanics didn't have plans; they did have a story though.
No there were no patents, Arabs, or congressional rejections. Or black helicopters.
No there is no ban on the sale of 1/2 ton diesel pickups- 1/2 tonners just had to meet automotive emissions standards while bigger trucks didn't, and the mfgs didn't think the market warranted all that work and expense.

Haha, this thread is great.

The best part is this thing was real,it was on the evening news and 60 minutes back in the day.even then as now it was clouded in controversy and mystery. They drove 970 miles on 11.5 gallons of fuel, with out a cardboard pointed nose taped on the front end,which is illegal in alot of states,due to it could come off and endanger others.

I wonder what the quarter mile times were- and if they'd be considered safe in moving traffic. I could throw a 1 liter diesel in my Probe and get super duper mileage, but then it would probably be as slow as an ox cart too. If you or anyone else can find any actual (source) info on it, that would be interesting to read.

Edit: Here are some links that would have helped substantiate your first post.

Time Magazine, 1979 5 14

This claims 0-60 in 17 seconds and a top speed of 105mph. Arragonis' Toyota Aygo would be a good match in a drag race.

At that time there is no mention of patents or Arab businessmen or anything.

People Magazine, 1979 5 21

Here are some hints about a "patent"

Here are the Arabs, but they say $100 Million is an exaggeration.

On a side note, this thread is the fifth result when Googling "ralph moody ford capri" :)

This Car was turbo charged and had tuned headers on it,hense it was noisy. but it wasn't slow as a turtle.Ralph Moody was not an amature he was a professional auto builder who was employed by Ford to run and develope thier Racing efforts,the GT40 that AJ Foyt won LeMans with was prepared by Holman-Moody.he was a class act

one last thing,the car was built in a modern professional race car shop.a shop with flow benches and engine dyno's.Ralph wasn't interested in getting rich,he all ready was rich.Ralph was a patriot and wanted to help us get through the oil crisis.in building the car he used tricks learned on the race track pertaining to fuel mileage.with todays modern exhaust mufflers,all most straight through but quiet,I think it would pass the noise standards.

The Question still is,where is this car or the build sheets for it.and what could be learned from it. I think it is so sad that it wasn't turned over to a magazine for testing.it just dissapeared over night all most,a car that got 85 mph would of been talked about for years.especially one that wasn't a stripped down bare bones one like the Shell mileage cars. this car had a turbo and from what I remember air conditioning.but it only got around 70 mpg with air on on the freeway.I remember Moody saying that on a tv news interview

That "85 mpg" figure wasn't rigorously tested so don't get too hung up on it. Modern turbodiesels are probably just as good.

Not good enough for 85mpg as an average.

Look at where the "85" figure came from- one, one way run of about 40 miles.

also when Moody built this car,he didn't have to worry about "bean counters"inter office politics,or stepping on somebody's toes. did Detroit use the best head design? no, it was a trade off.did they use the best bearings that were lower in friction? no, they used standard bearings.Moody was used to using the best that was available on the race cars. I have no doubt he carried that over into the Moody Diesel.

look up Holman-Moody it will give you an idea who Ralph Moody was

http://www.byronwine.com/files/200%2...%20carb%20.pdf

I see the source of your inspiration Louis. :rolleyes:

How very dare you :D My Aygo does 0-60 in under 11 seconds according to independant car magazines, 14 seconds according to Toyota - who want to sell it as slow to insurance companies. As an aside a year's insurance here for a 17 year old is £2000, thats $3000 - for 12 months :eek:

As for the idea that the Arabs bought this car or got it outlawed, sorry its pish. In the late 70s OPEC panicked because of the recession in the western world and thought they had "killed the golden goose" so they dropped prices.

Also they wanted the US to protect them against the likes of Iran "exporting the revolution", so when Reagan in the 80s wanted low oil prices to starve the USSR of cash, OPEC opened the taps.

This deserves to be with the unicorns, together with the 100MPG carb.

I can verify the existance of the Moodymobile because we have it in our shop here in Delaware. My grandfather, Melvin Joseph, worked with Ralph on the project after he and Shetley parted ways. We still tag the car and drive it ocassionally. The mileage claims were certified at the Transportation Research Center of Ohio.

Thanks for posting, your grandfather,Ralph Moody and thier team were patriots.I don't believe they were interested in mass producing automobiles.the Arab oil crises held this country by the throat.Ralph being a WWII vet felt strongly about that.he wanted to show them that American ingunuity could step up.but the big auto companys felt threatened they didn't want to invest in an unprovened product,and when the enbargo was over they felt they would be stuck with a car nobody wanted.so they leaned on congress.didn't pass emmissions tests my eye! a vehical getting that kind of milage is burning most of it's fuel and running clean.the auto companys and congress should of of jumped on the band wagon.Haralded the Moody mobile and pressured the Arabs to lift the embargo.maybe it did,the Arabs did lift the embargo shortly after the introduction of the Moodymobile.if thats the case it did it's job,but Ralph your grandfather and the team should of gotton the credit from a gratefull nation,instead they got the shaft.as for me I salute them,god bless them and I totally get what they tried to do

Rationally speaking.

Moody proved a point, that cars could be built to be much more efficient, but he is a long way from the only one who did that.

The 1984 Honda CRX HF was good for 73 MPG at 55 MPH, from the factory, without any emission problems. Diesel cars followed Moody's model from many manufacturers, and Europe today is building many Diesel powered cars that get fantastic mileage.

Look up the Audi A2 diesel versions. Modern European diesels are clean and powerful enough for any highway in the US. Why don't they come here? Some do come here.

Another obstacle to diesels in the US, at least until recently, was high sulphur content in the fuel, because the truckers wanted cheap fuel.

Diesel particulate emissions are a problem, maybe overstated, maybe not. Emission legislation has always been a political football, and there will always be the battles of the stronger lobbies, with the vast resources of the conglomerates.

Maybe one of these days the US will actually embark on the new Manhattan Project, where efficiency is the priority. While clean emissions are now the top priority, progress continues on engines that are so clean they need no after treatment. Compared to the Perkins engine in Moody's car the difference can be measured in tens to hundreds of times lower emissions, partially due to the fuels used at the time and partially due to the ability of computer controls, while preheated hypercritical fuel delivery brings the internal combustion engine into the future with efficiencies of 60% on the threshold of realization.

The development of power trains also promises to increase overall efficiency by 80% with no other changes. I still see the hydraulic option as a key component regardless of the energy supply used for fuel.

Every time the price spikes in the US (never saw $4 a gallon, in the 70s, and I was driving in 1966) after the original oil embargo. The manufacturers have responded with efficient vehicles. The real problem is the fact that Saudi Arabia can pump oil out of the ground for $2 a barrel. We in the US have become accustomed to gas at $3-3.50 per gallon. The spikes have just made us complacent with higher average prices.

The sad thing is there are solutions here right now, that need no further development. The corporate average fuel economy requirements should be 50 MPG today in the US, with the priority on economy, with safety and emissions very close behind. This is the exact opposite of what is being done. I can take a 3 cylinder Kubota and stick it in a 84 CRX shell, add some aero, and get 100 MPG at 50 MPH. Like Iaccoca said, it's not rocket science.

Eventually the situation will be resolved, but expect resistance to continue in every aspect when it comes to any dramatic advancement.

"Do you want to wipe out employment in the transportation infrastructure and kill millions of jobs."

That is what I was told at my US Senators office.

"Do you want the used car market value to collapse."

Same office.

My father was a pioneer in computerizing the payroll of the US Air Force, starting in 1955. He had to fight every inch of the way to get the base comptrollers to move from hand punched pay checks to automated payroll systems. They tried everything including prostitutes to get him in a compromising situation and destroy his credibility.

The same status quo inertia in the current industry is identical.

Look at the history of gas prices and you can see, when OPEC saw a direct threat to their monopoly they responded by destroying the competition with lower prices. They did it the last time in the winter of 09 when prices here dropped below $2 a gallon. Factor in inflation and that's about the same price it was in 1972 at 32 cents a gallon.

regards
Mech

As someone who's tuned diesels to meet emissions I can assure you that better fuel economy does NOT necessarily mean lower emissions. With CO and hydrocarbons, that's generally the case. NOx generally goes the opposite way as efficiency because NOx is driven by temperature. Hi temp = Hi NOx = Hi efficiency. Just look at what happend with the lower NOx emissions that came in in 2003 for heavy duty trucks. Fleet efficiency had historically improved by about 0.5% every year. In 2003 it DECREASED for the first time because of the stricter NOx limits.

As far as the car goes it is a pretty cool story. I remember hearing another story about a group of engineers in the oil crisis modified a VW diesel and got 100 mpg (under some very ideal conditions). I'll have to see if I can find the story.

But folks shouldn't be too amazed at the car. It was an 1.8L turbodiesel in a fairly small passenger car. Just look at the small diesel cars that the Europeans are running these days. They're pretty much in the same range (Remember, 80 mpg on the highway is very different from a 80 mpg highway rating). I think the VW diesel Rabbits in the 80's had highway ratings in the high 50's and I think those we naturally aspirated.

Now, making a car like that can meet current NOx limits (and PM limits w/ a DPF), and still make it affordable in the US market is the challenge...

I think the VW diesel Rabbits in the 80's had highway ratings in the high 50's and I think those we naturally aspirated.

Went to a private college with a guy who paid his way by having worked the Trans-Alaska Pipeline. He "commuted" that 4,150-miles from Anchorage to San Antonio twice yearly and reported an easy 45+ mpg in a loaded down Rabbit diesel.

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They did!!! :eek: It was called Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles (PNGV) and we- the taxpayers- poured millions if not billions into it over how many years to fund a consortium of govt and auto industry research for fuel efficient family sedans. What did we get? Prototypes from the Big Three that all achieved about 80 mpg for 5 or 6 passenger sedans at supposedly a low cost premium over a "regular" car... and then... nothing. None of the cars were mass produced and everybody ran out and bought new Silverados instead. :confused: :mad:

VW sold diesels in '77: Volkswagen tracks down the oldest Rabbit diesel in America

Moody made his diesel conversion on a '79 Capri and publicized it in '79: Energy: Moody's Magic Machine - TIME

Make no mistake, I like the Moodymobile; it just wasn't revolutionary, ahead of it's time, or even particularly clever.

Combining gas and diesel engines could yield best of both worlds

When you eliminate throttle controls or fuel delivery controls and let the engine run at its best efficiency then you can get close to 60% thermal efficiency.

That is one of the key reasons I like the hydraulic hybrid. The engine is not the controlling factor in vehicle speed. The hydraulic accumulator allows this separation of function and acts like an energy damper, both for acceleration and regeneration.

The engine can now cycle on and off, running with no throttle control whatsoever. It either produces absolutely best bsfc, or it is not running. The cycle percentage depends only on sustained energy requirements as an average. Sitting in crawling traffic the cycle could be lower than 5% while 100% would be climbing a long steep grade. The only control mechanism is an on or off switch.

Another design that seems promising is the Chiron from INNAS.

How to find us

Look at their floating cup in wheel drives. This is a fixed displacement design with a transformer to control pressure. Fluid is constantly flowing through a fixed displacement motor. My design eliminates the transformer and controls the displacement directly by changing the stroke of the pistons, It is also a rotary instead of axial configuration.

In the EPA documents from 2006 they were looking for a "clean sheet of paper" design for a drive motor to get regeneration efficiency (something Moody never even considered) beyond 80%.Their major issue was using a bent axis pump-motor connected to the differential at prop shaft speed, where the efficiency of a hydraulic motor is poor compared to driving the wheel directly at less than 30% of the RPM of a prop shaft speed drive.

regards
Mech

Non-electric Ford F-150 hydraulic hybrid could get 40 mpg

Maybe not wasted after all Frank. How about that full sized truck getting 40 MPG. Imagine what a Corolla sized vehicle would do.

regards
Mech

I seem to remember the hydraulic automobile proposal back in the 80s. the biggest drawback was the cost of components and weight. but as for being efficient only electrical can best it. wait until the battery is perfected(if ever)

Did PNGV figure it all out for them? Looks like they're still developing it, and I don't see anything like it for sale anywhere:

They figured it out 50 or 60 years ago, they just can't find a package that fits in their little box of what they feel americans want or accept.

Also there was a mandate that the prototypes be produced, sadly the date was after the change of presidents and thus got shelved.

maybe says something of our ineffectively political machine as well.

Not sure how you would ever get a singular dream/purpose in Americans like the japanese where we would work collectively to solve problems facing everyone.

Alas I digress

I still think HYDRASRICS as we use to call it, is too heavy and would be costly to service & maintain and were pushing toward the 30s in mpg now,it seems.

Ron read page 2 of this article, and if your next criticism is leaks, then consider the new hydraulic fluids are biodegradable and you could actually drink them. "I can hold a 500 HP hydraulic motor in my hand, and I am not a big person" quote from Charles Gray on the second page. How big is your 500 HP electric motor?

How about the 15% loss of power in charging the Nissan Leaf's battery (source Consumer Reports testing).

Parker Hannifin has held a chain less challenge for students to design hydraulic hybrid bicycles. Human powered hydraulic hybrids (not saying they are more efficient than a regular bike).

That fairly addresses the size issue, and carbon fiber tanks addresses the weight issue.
Lots of old biases against HH designs, all of them wrong.

You could even put a simple launch assist in the rear axle of Nissan Leaf and extend it's range by recovering 80% of braking energy instead of the 30% of an electric vehicle.
Kind of hard to cram 600 HP seconds of energy into a chemical battery in 20 revolutions of the wheels (60-0 fast stop and no electric solution except maybe adding capacitors).

You could even use hydraulics as a load leveler to increase the recharge efficiency of an electric car (stored in the accumulator in 4 seconds released over a minute to charge the battery more efficiently).

I find the it's my way or the highway tunnel vision of advocates of different solutions to be disturbing. It should be an open minded solution oriented perspective that includes every pathway to success.

regards
Mech

looks like youve done a lot of reading on the subject. Ill look up that article on hyd vehicles asap, one thing I find hard to understand is how big of an I.C.engine/pump combo does it take to make a 500 hp hydraulic motor turn and how fast. (Criticism) No Just stating what I know to be true Hydraulics are Expensive,Heavy,&yes they will eventually leak. Now, what they do have is a hydraulic fluid based on coconuts yes its biodegradeable but I wouldnt drink it . "old hydraulic mens tolls never rust they just get harder to hold on to"

Remember the 500 HP is more like an electric motor (compared to an IC engine) and the torque would tear most vehicles to pieces. Its more of an example of how compact the power can actually be.

I have been around body shops most of my life and in spite of that have seen very few hydraulic leaks, even when you focus enough energy on a vehicle to twist an F350 frame up like a pretzel

All done with an air compressor which should answer your issue of how big an engine do you need. A pressure washer 5 HP at 3k PSI can charge an accumulator (it would take some time) and the energy concentrated in the accumulator could provide acceleration of sufficient g force to make you black out in a 2k pound vehicle. With a 5 HP pressure washer pump and engine. The real question is how much is your average power requirement and how steep are the grades your vehicle must climb.

All of that is not really relevant if the engine is of a larger size it just runs for a lower percentage of time when the vehicle is in motion. Smaller engine higher percentage. Overall the same amount of fuel consumed as long as the engines are in the same bsfc range.

I was reading today about the Nissan Leaf that made the Pikes Peak hill climb in 14 minutes and some seconds. I wonder how much of the battery capacity it took, probably close to all that was available.

Think of the accumulator as an energy shock absorber with a capacity of 600 horsepower seconds, available instantly. The same energy as you see being absorbed in a 60 MPH into a solid barrier collision that destroys a car completely. You will never be able to put that kind of energy back into a chemical battery in that short a time period, unless you add a very expensive capacitor to your already very expensive battery. Even then the conversion stages and individual losses will stop you from ever coming close to 80% recovery AND reapplication, not even close.

regards
Mech

so ok now ill tell you that I Love Hydraulics It was as I call it my Glamour job from 73 to 90 worked on everything from the presses that made the tiles for the space shuttle the glomar explorer H. Hughes ship that picked up the russian sub circa 68or9 and so much more stories for hours, yep. I love hydraulics. They are just heavy im sure you remember how heavy the port-a-power cyl weighed on that frame machine, It pulled like he-- nice and slow Yes? Id love to see a hyd powered car but I dont think I ever will. Mabe a hyd assisted vehicle . remember hyd stores a lot of power for a short amount of time in an accumulator,but a battery stores its energy/power and can give it out over hours without recharge. apples and oranges, Im not here to argue Im here to learn . Ron

The new direct injection systems in IC engines work at pressures of close to 3000 PSI. Combustion pressures in iC engines peak at about 1500 PSI. Not sure about the hydraulic brakes. Engine lubrication systems, cooling systems, AC systems, power steering and the others previously mentioned demonstrate that modern vehicles have numerous "hydraulic systems" with numerous potential leak sources. Yet my 13 year old Maxima with 140 k miles leaves no trace of any failure in those systems on the floor of the garage.
You are absolutely correct about weight. A 4 ton portable hydraulic jack is a heavy machine, but it is very efficient at converting the pressure into useful work, and has survived the test of time for many decades. The drive I conceived will work with 1/8th inch wall thickness high tensile steel up to 3k PSI, more if you use an accumulator of higher pressure capacity. Modern racing sailboats work with pressures of 12 PSI, which would require double the wall thickness of the pistons and cylinders in a drive motor.
Containment of the high pressure portion of the circuit in the return low pressure vessel uses the same type system that an engine uses for lubrication, of course at much higher pressures.
Low pressure containment vessels also allow individual seals to be eliminated, with a designed in fluid loss of 1-2% to act as lubrication and cooling, with a filter in the low pressure return circuit and a radiator for heat dissipation. None of this is new technology except the drive itself. The rest is ancient technology, most of it dating back to the replacement of seals with rubber and synthetics going back to pre WW2.
While the battery point is certainly valid, the counterpoint is the first gen Honda Insight, which only had enough battery capacity to move the vehicle about a mile on battery alone. In the early Insight the battery was supplemental to the engine and acted as an energy damper in precisely the same way I see a hydraulic system operating, with the exception that the engine was directly connected to the motor, instead of being capable of independent operation. With what many would consider serious design flaws, the first gen Insight is still the mileage champ among production vehicles, with a 48 pound battery in a 2 k pound car. It would be interesting to convert one of those Insights into a hydraulic hybrid with a 100 pound accumulator system and drives in each front wheel, eliminating the transmission axles and brakes, as well as the engines induction control systems would be very close to weight neutral, while providing blistering acceleration and pulse a glide capability in the accumulator while maintaining a constant speed.
Anyway that is what I am trying to get built today. Maybe in a year it will be finished but it won't be an early Insight conversion in the first prototype, maybe the second if things sort out well.
Appreciate the interest.

regards
Mech

wow lost every thing I was writing so Ill try again. the concept of hyd assist is gerat. I hope that you look into the 3000 psi . wall thickness of 1/8 to 1/4 may be a little thin as you know hyd equip is 4 times rated for safety, decompression is going to play a part when you release the stored fluid . I hooked up a system for aarp years ago and it took 3 ten gallon accumulators to start a CAT and the nitrogen precharge was 4500 psi,and it hammered like he-- ,it also cranked and carry the engine to 1800 rpm in as i recall .025 sec so the sign wave of electric power wouldnt drop so they wouldnt loose computer data input if a power failure happened. just design first so t&m isnt wasted, If it dont work on paper get another sheet . hope this helps food for thought. Ron hyho off to work i go

a simple hydraulic system which does not seem to leak includes brake systems on cars installed for about 100 years now.

it seems to me a pair of hydraulic pumps/motors are needed. A very large capacity (40 cubic inch?) for braking and a smaller one (10 cubic inch?) for acceleration.

Air might be another good hydraulic fluid.