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tr0n 05-21-2009 12:41 PM

Muscle Car MPG?
 
Long time lurker here. I've recently picked up a 72 Ford Maverick w/the inline six 200cid "indestructible" engine. I'm wondering if anyone else here has gone through the motions of making their own older classic car more fuel efficient and what kinds of things I can do to improve mine?

I've thought about converting to fuel injection, but I really want to keep it as original and cheap as possible at the moment. Any thoughts?

Thanks

dcb 05-21-2009 01:25 PM

You might be able to swap in a stick shift and clutch pedal for a few hundred too, and get lower ratio rear end gears. Add a kill switch, pump up the tires, and work on your technique.

Follow the gear change with some aero if you are up for max benefit per $, but then it might not look to stock though.

dcb 05-21-2009 01:40 PM

This would be a good donor for a manual trans swap, though might want to save up for more speeds eventually:
1972 Ford Maverick w rebuilt inline engine 72 parts :eBay Motors (item 200343053229 end time May-23-09 17:27:34 PDT)

Also if it has a lower rear end I would use that. Engine might even be better.

tr0n 05-21-2009 07:11 PM

The car I have has the manual three on the tree setup. No use in getting that rust bucket on ebay. It's in much worse shape than mine. I was looking for some pointers on what to do with the carb or maybe an engine swap? I'm looking at putting on an aluminum head... More?

dcb 05-21-2009 07:25 PM

Sweet! I was just suggesting use the parts off the $300 bucket to swap to manual, but you already have most of the parts You might look into EOC (on an empty road for starters). Mind if you have power brakes or steering that they get a lot harder to use when the engine stops. But I wouldn't be suprised if you could approach 40mpg just by pumping up the tires and using techniques like EOC and DWL with a vacuum gauge.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-p-g-7057.html

frugal builder 05-21-2009 07:26 PM

There's an aluminum head for the 144- 200 cid sixes?

metromizer 05-21-2009 07:52 PM

Aftermarket EFI would be great, a 4 speed trans swap of rear gear swap too, but most people won't put in that amount of coin or effort, so...

I'd give it a high quality tune up, rebuild the distributor if it needs it (if you can find someone with a distributor machnie, to check the smoothness and advance curve for you, it would be money well spent) Also, find someone with an old Sunnen scope to fine tune the ignition and carburator for you. That is the way the older master mechanics would get those older points and carburator cars to purr like a kitten. Jetting those old carbs for optimum air/fuel ratio will almost always yeild better mpg, but don't confuse the term'jetting' with "hey, I'll just throw on a rebuilt carb from Pep Boys" because that won't do it for you. Jet it to where the plug insulators are light tan to almost white, and it will wake up and run better, use less fuel. Just stay on top of the tune. my 2cents

Ford Man 05-21-2009 08:51 PM

I haven't seen a Maverick in years, but I do remember the 200 CID 6 cylinder. My dad had a '68 Falcon with a 200 automatic and if I remember right it got low 20's in normal driving.

A four speed conversion would probably help you about as much as anything you could do for the cost involved unless of course it is in need of a tune up.

Frank Lee 05-22-2009 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 105592)
But I wouldn't be suprised if you could approach 40mpg just by pumping up the tires and using techniques like EOC and DWL with a vacuum gauge.

I'd **** my pants if it got 40 no matter what.

Peter7307 05-22-2009 01:05 AM

Sort of related to some of the above and if the budget will go that far is getting the car dyno tested.

This will optimise the setting in as close as you can get to real road driving and a decent dyno operator will also be able spot things like a tight wheel bearing or a slipping clutch which may be hard to identify in daily driving.

Other thoughts are to find a performance based board for you car and see what the options are in that direction then take what you need for upping the FE.
A lot of the higher performance mods can be usefully translated over to giving better FE.

Welcome to the place as well and long may you six run.

Cheers , Pete.

Formula413 05-24-2009 04:58 PM

Not original or cheap exactly, but a second or third generation small block would do wonders for your FE. My Firebird has an LT1 (second generation) that makes over 300 hp and still gets 23 mpg when driven mainly on the highway in a 3500 pound car. The LS1 (third generation) can do even better. The easier stuff has already been mentioned, good tune, taller gears etc.

binarycortex 05-25-2009 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr0n (Post 105529)
Long time lurker here. I've recently picked up a 72 Ford Maverick w/the inline six 200cid "indestructible" engine. I'm wondering if anyone else here has gone through the motions of making their own older classic car more fuel efficient and what kinds of things I can do to improve mine?

I've thought about converting to fuel injection, but I really want to keep it as original and cheap as possible at the moment. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Two words. Diesel Swap.

Gale Banks put a Cummins inline six in a Dodge Dakota, Banksified it, DROVE it to the salt flats and busted some records. 222mph in a truck, a diesel truck. As for fuel economy well, I'll let them tell you.

"The test loop was just over 119 miles in length, beginning at the Banks Engineering campus in Azusa, California. The route included a couple of miles on surface streets to the Interstate highway. The rest of the loop was all highway driving on I-210, I-30, and I-15, going north up the Cajon pass (about a 6 percent grade), and then back again for a total of 119.6 miles. All highway driving was done at the posted speed limits of 65 and 70 MPH in sixth gear, which is .73:1 for a final drive ratio of 2.43:l. That’s 1800 to 1900 RPM. The powerful Cummins diesel was just loafing, even up the grade. The total fuel consumed was 5.63 gallons, for an average of 21.24 MPG. Not too shabby for a truck with over 700 HP and 1300 lb.-ft. of torque on tap!"

And I don't think they did very much in the way of aeromods, I saw some moonies but I don't think they even had a toneau cover on the back.

We need to introduce gale banks to basjoos.

Note: Yes I posted this in another area on the forum but...damn!

maverickman 09-08-2009 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metromizer (Post 105598)
Aftermarket EFI would be great, a 4 speed trans swap of rear gear swap too, but most people won't put in that amount of coin or effort, so...

I'd give it a high quality tune up, rebuild the distributor if it needs it (if you can find someone with a distributor machnie, to check the smoothness and advance curve for you, it would be money well spent) Also, find someone with an old Sunnen scope to fine tune the ignition and carburator for you. That is the way the older master mechanics would get those older points and carburator cars to purr like a kitten. Jetting those old carbs for optimum air/fuel ratio will almost always yeild better mpg, but don't confuse the term'jetting' with "hey, I'll just throw on a rebuilt carb from Pep Boys" because that won't do it for you. Jet it to where the plug insulators are light tan to almost white, and it will wake up and run better, use less fuel. Just stay on top of the tune. my 2cents

I'm looking at buying a '70 Maverick with a 200cid, and I was looking for a fuel injection setup, but I couldn't find one. Perhaps you know of a place?

bgd73 09-12-2009 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr0n (Post 105529)
Long time lurker here. I've recently picked up a 72 Ford Maverick w/the inline six 200cid "indestructible" engine. I'm wondering if anyone else here has gone through the motions of making their own older classic car more fuel efficient and what kinds of things I can do to improve mine?

I've thought about converting to fuel injection, but I really want to keep it as original and cheap as possible at the moment. Any thoughts?

Thanks

I had a zephyr with it. 90hp?
The intake and emmissions of the later 70s was insane, 1972 should have a bit more strength if in typical history of its generation.
A very common weber 32/36, progressive electric choke, and get some advice on the displacement for jetting, it is a conservative one.

My late 70s version was so tight it broke its own intake trying to get air. Somebody built something crazy at ford, I hope your 200 doesn't have what mine did. I had realistic motivation and never went through with it, the weber custom jetted, emmissions removed, excpet for canister, fuel venting and return lines, a newer convertor, away it would have went.

200 cubic inch is a giant, and straight sixxes do not want to run, to get a goal of 30mpg is incredible.

keep an eye on those washers holding the exhaust and intake simultaneous going into the block. :confused:

nemesis 09-18-2009 11:33 PM

if I wanted to get better gas mileage I'd at least put a 289 or 302 in it with a 5speed t5 trans. If you don't like that idea and want something that will get 30mpg, well look no farther than 2.3L or 2.3T, both of those were getting over 30mpg on the highway with 3.55 gears, and I could imagine what those could get in a lighter falcon and 2.73 gears, 40mpg wouldn't be out of reach, oh and 2.3T ran 13.5s at 107mph in an 89 mustang while getting 30mpg

Backtobasics 09-19-2009 10:04 AM

I am not as strong in the eco side of things, but I sell HP speed stuff consistantly.

Here is my recipe:
  • Keep the straight 6
  • Give it a quality tune up, perhaps adding an upgraded CDI ignition box, timing advance to highest point engine will allow without pinging.
  • Change all fluids, synthetic in trans and rear end
  • repack wheel bearings, synthetic grease
  • evaluate current air filter housing....add K&N filter or equivalent, and look into fabricating an air intake. Hot air is best for MPG and warmup, so you could look at capping the end of the stock intake, and draw air from the 'warmup' tube that normally sits off the exhaust manifold. If yours is not setup this way, it could be made to draw air directly off or around the exhaust manifold, for warm air
  • exhaust, have moderate diameter (2" or 2.25) exhaust run, as smooth as possible, with a low restriction muffler
  • electric fan to replace the mechanical fan

The biggest detriment to your MPG is gears and transmission. The transmission is a non overdrive 1 to 1 ratio. Without overdrive, the car will likely have an ideal conditions around 50-55 MPH. It will go higher, but the sheer number of RPM will hurt MPG regardless of how well tuned the car is.
The rear gears contribute to this. For max MPG you want the smaller number gears, but accelleration off the line suffers. A 2.76 or so ratio will extend the highway happy place higher, but not the same as an OD trans.

Ultimately, I think you best bet is to get the car in great state of tune. Have the carb rebuilt if it is out of your area. Fresh ignition parts, premium quality stuff, plus any little tricks you can think of (indexing the plugs, etc). Reduce intake and exhaust restrictions, reduce drag and friction as much as possible, etc.
The suggestions for driving technique are very valid. Pulse and Glide is key. I have strategic areas on my daily commute where a P&G yields me a long stretch of glide, with the car idling at its lowest point.

A secondary alternative, is a swap to a modern EFI engine and trans.
A 5.0 and 5 speed from Mustang would give more power and torque to get you moving, and the 5 speed would drop RPM on highway for MPG.

Backtobasics 09-19-2009 10:10 AM

In regards to the aluminum head and fuel injection and Cutoff switch:
If I recall correctly, the intake manifold is cast with the head on the 200 inline 6, so that is not possible.
There will not be an off the shelf fuel injection unit. A single 1 bbl throttle body, or 2 bbl throttle body injection off GM trucks could be adapted, but you would have to have someone who can write the chips adjust the firing order for your Ford. You need EFI fuel pump, lines, etc. I think Spectre might have a single bbl universal fuel injection setup, but not sure.
EOC.... Veterans, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see how engine off coasting can be done on a carbureted vehicle. I can turn the car off, but the engine will continue to draw fuel through the carb, into the cylinders. In my younger days, this was a great way to shoot fire out the exhaust, and BOOM, but for eco friendly driving, it is washing down the cylinders, and igniting in the exhaust. Unless someone can tell me differently, I do not see how EOC works on carbs.

tjts1 09-19-2009 10:28 AM

Megasquirt
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html

Big Dave 09-19-2009 05:59 PM

It all depends on how bad you want big results.

You piddle around, you get piddle-around results. To get big results, go big.

You can get 3.00:1 gears for a Maverick. That might help.

Want big results? Go with a diesel and a five or six-speed manual transmission. A M-B OM617 will fit and the turbo versions are indestructible at the 120-150 HP level. You might get a custom bellhousing for a VW TDI.

Diesel + stick easily puts you in the mid-30s.

some_other_dave 09-21-2009 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backtobasics (Post 128612)
EOC.... Veterans, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see how engine off coasting can be done on a carbureted vehicle. I can turn the car off, but the engine will continue to draw fuel through the carb, into the cylinders.

That's only if you leave it in gear. If you turn the engine off with the transmission in neutral (or the clutch in), the engine will wind down and stop, just like it does when you park. If the engine isn't turning, there's no air being drawn through the carb, which means no fuel going in. (Unless you pump the throttle, in which case the accelerator pump will dump fuel down the carb throat.)

That said, I think it takes significantly more fuel to start up a carb'ed engine than an injected one. So the payback time for EOC is longer--you would need to be able to have the engine off for (wild guess) 30 seconds instead of 10 seconds to make it worthwhile.

A decent throttle body injection could work well. And if you have machine tools, you can drill the manifold for injectors and have at it. You'd definitely have to go with something like Megasquirt or another programmable EFI setup to run it, though. And that's a lot of DIY.

-soD

sc2dave 04-22-2010 12:35 AM

Anyone KNOW the weber 32/36's? I need to adjust the acc pump.

Duffman 04-22-2010 09:30 PM

I would say it all depends on what you want to do. I would do a compression test and determine if what you are starting with is worth putting money in, if the engine is worn a rebuild will do more for your MPG than most little stuff will.

I think unless you are going to go to a OD transmission dont change the 3 spd, its likely wide ratio and will do the job. Unless your gearing is numerically high or you got a line on cheap gears I wouldnt waste my time there either. Gearing is king if you are spending a lot of time on the highway, it does nothing for you in city stop and go.

If your carb is jettable (meaning you can find different jets to swap in) that will be by far your best bang for the buck. If you are looking to spend some money I would start with the ingition system, 1972 will be a points distributer.... garbage.

robertwb70 04-23-2010 08:00 AM

I second the 2.3 + 5 speed swap.

sc2dave 04-25-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr0n (Post 105529)
I'm wondering if anyone else here has gone through the motions of making their own older classic car more fuel efficient and what kinds of things I can do to improve mine?
thanks

I plan to do this also on my 66 Nova 194 6cyl.

viio 05-20-2010 10:50 AM

I'd love to have a car like that, but the mpg would make me cry! I've been on diesels for years and I don't think I could go back.

cujet 05-21-2010 01:56 PM

The Ford 200CI six was my first "efficiency" project in the 70's. You can mill the head sixty thousandths. Or, you can pick up and old 170CI six head, mill it 0.060 inches and install for even more compression.

I did this. I also added a Weber 2bbl progressive carb, with small primary and larger secondary venturi. I milled off the single carb mount and brazed on a rectangular steel mount for the Weber. I fabricated all of this in a few hours. It could be done with a sawsall, a die grinder and a disc grinder.

I added a later model electronic ign, with vacuum and centrifugal advance. I think it was a Ford EecII.

I also did exhaust work, headers, transmission change etc.

I went from 21MPG or so, to 32.

gone-ot 05-22-2010 05:35 PM

...certainly NOT a muscle car, but I took a '72 Pinto with 1.6L (FOB) engine and 4-speed from 24 mpg to 38 mpg by:

1) 3.55 axle to 3.18 axle
2) rejetted stock Weber 1BBL carb
3) installed Ford electronic ignition & distributor from newer Fiesta (same engine)
4) from cast iron manifold to tri-Y header

flyer351 05-22-2010 06:38 PM

I had a 289 '65 Mustang with 2bbl carb. The car could eak our 28 mpg at 55mph. Probably the easiest mod would be leaning out the carb with smaller jets.

Schelter 05-25-2010 04:25 AM

How bout just copying the '76 Plymouth Feather Duster? A little aluminum here and there, an OD 4spd, no options, lean carb, V8 Exhaust, and a 2.94 rear axle. They were rated at 24 City / 36mpg highway (although that was a bit optimistic)

slowmover 06-13-2010 10:25 AM

I had a '71 while in college. I'll never miss that car. Mavericks are crap: bad visibility, etc.

Recently got rid of a '79 Fairmont with the 200-6. Changed over to a progressive carb (off of a GM 2.8 V6 as I recall) and mileage improved. Crappy car, as with any Falcon derivative (brakes and front end). Not many speed parts (see CLIFFORD), but there is some effort being expended online. I also changed over to FORD ignition box that had some benefit (high altitude?). Not much better as a car than the Maverick.

The motor is not in the same class as the Mopar Slant Six, but, as a tractor motor you can probably improve steady state mpg as with suggestions above in re tuning, etc. It is heavy compared to an only slightly heavier 302-V8 where a door is opened to MANY more possibilities to play with in re mpg.

Frankly, the best way -- probably the only way -- to get money out of this car is to make it stone-axe reliable.

I like 6's to no end. But not this one.


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