My Metro died. What car should I get? Thinking Camry/Accord appliance.
 

[Admin note - topic split from I was always a "car guy". Crossovers & SUV's are ending that. ]

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I used to be a huge car nut, still am a little bit. After my Metro puked on Friday I found myself drooling over an assortment of Lexus cars with the 2JZ inline six (same motor as the MK4 Supra that is so famous), but after realizing the car only gets ~20 mpg on Premium and less on regular fuel, the interest fizzled out. Right now I'm favoring a 1996 Camry, 4-cyl, automatic. Nothing but a appliance car but at least I should be able to keep the same work car for more than 6 months.

If you bump up to 2003, the Camry gets a timing chain. Before that year, belt replacement is every 90k. They'll snap at 100k, but at least the engine is non-interference.

That would be the same generation as Mom's 2006 Camry which has only had a couple of repairs.

This is exactly why I'm looking at Camrys. I'm tired of buying $500 cars and wondering every day when it's going to die. I've set myself a $2000 budget for a car (almost record high for me, at least since entering adult life), and hopefully that will get a car that isn't totally clapped out.

Some day I'll get back into my enthusiasm for non-toaster cars, but I'm afraid they'll all be gone by then.

But ... but... but! Don't hamstring yourself with an automatic!


You Know You're an Ecomodder (or just a generic car guy) When: you're walking down the street as someone pulls away from a stop in a plain jane 2000-2006 Camry sedan and you realize it's got a manual transmission! Unicorn sighting! Actually happened to me this summer.

I'd really prefer a manual, I keep getting the argument from my wife that "if you get a manual then I can't drive it." I'll probably insist on a manual anyway. Was looking at a 92 Accord with a manual the other day, looks to be in great shape other than one crack in the windshield, $1200

On another similar note, I was in the city with my family a couple weeks ago in our odyssey, when a newish BMW with an I6 pulled up next to me at the stop light. I could hear that he didn't have a stock exhaust on there (not annoying, it was very tastefully modified), and so I cracked my wife's window just a little in the hopes of hearing a little bit of launch. He turned right on the red shortly after and to my surprise I was filled with childlike glee as not only did it sound tremendous, it was a manual trans besides.

My wife said I'm an idiot, all the while my 3 year old was in the back seat and just as excited as I was.

I'd not get anything older than 1996, simply because I find having OBDII to be very useful in troubleshooting. Camry's with timing belts will absolutely snap them right around 100k miles. My dad has had 3 break between the 1996 and 1998 Camry's. 3 were replaced before breaking. He's now fixing the 1998 after it was abused by his friend, and it has over 300k on it now. Needs some front end work, the water pump wasn't replaced by his friend (he's a mechanic, why didn't he do the water pump?) last time the belt snapped, so that's leaking.

The 1996 was totalled by my sister when she rolled it 5 times on a straight road very familiar to her, on a clear day. She accidentally drifted toward the center line, over corrected into the soft shoulder, then corrected violently back to the left putting the car sideways. That one was fantastic and probably would have gone over 300k trouble free miles.

Anyhow, Edmunds says a 2003 Camry with 192,000 miles is worth $1,400 in clean condition private party.

That '92 Accord is way overpriced. Doesn't matter what condition it's in; it's worth $500.

Never pay asking price. Always lowball several people and a few of them will counter. Work those counters until you get a price you're willing to pay.

What are your needs in a vehicle? Any utility? Maximum fuel economy?

I'm very fond of the Fit lately. My partner's will deliver 45-50mpg during good weather with zero hypermiling techniques, and you could probably close the hatch with a full sized washer and dryer in the back.

Otherwise, I'm a huge proponent (obviously) of the G1 Honda Insight. 2000-2006 are stupid reliable sans a few quirks (2nd gear downshift grind) and there are examples exceeding 600,000 miles with the factory engine and transmission, still delivering 70mpg+.

Then teach her! If she refuses, that's her problem then. I am up to 18 people taught to drive stick now.

Some people are unteachable, but that's the exception. Taught my wife (gf at the time) to drive stick in just one 30 minute session. She was struggling with letting the clutch out too quickly and killing the engine until I instructed her to take an eternity to let the clutch out as slowly as possible. She got it from then on out and after that it's just refining things.

I told her friend I wouldn't teach her on my vehicles after trying to teach her in a borrowed (from Chrysler) Jeep. She muscles the shifter rather than finesse it, sometimes without using the clutch. Revs the heck out the engine and still manages to stall it by being impatient with the clutch. She once abandoned the Jeep on a hill because she had burnt the clutch and gave up until someone moved it for her. I think Jeep ended up having to replace that transmission. I've currently got her driving a C-max with the hope that an e-CVT will hold up to her constantly switching between mashing the pedal and letting off entirely (if not braking).

I gave up immediately with my sister too. Similar issues of lacking the coordination and patience to operate machines correctly.

My sisters have had cars with manual transmissions.

That might be the best thing that I could say about them.:)

By the way, how many threads were created from others in the last few days? I know of this one and the Off-topic bickering one. I felt surprised that more posts were not brought over.

Teaching so many people has shown me what works and what doesn't. What works is demonstrating the engagement point, telling them to HOLD THE CLUTCH THERE and build up speed, then release. What doesn't work is telling them to release it over a specified time period, i've tried. They just don't get it. I think its them thinking the work is done when it starts engaging, so they just dump the clutch. In just an hour long session the usual recruit goes from clueless to being able to pull away with revs, able to upshift and rev match downshift, reverse, park, etc. Some people are harder to teach than others while few will instantly have a grasp on things. I have never given up on someone or cancelled a session because I think they are killing my car.


For my slightly on topic contribution, I do also love the sound of a 2JZ. There was a straight piped SC300 around my school campus, holy god was that thing eargasmic. Still has exhaust resonator apparently.

Did a quick perusal through the car ads on Facebook marketplace and Craigstlist with "Bismark, ND" and a radius of 200 miles; the selection of cheap, used cars for sale in ND is pathetic! Even SD has a much larger variety.

I'd echo Ecky on the Insight; or any manual Honda/Toyota really, but finding one in ND seems tricky with the lack of options.

That Accord seems alright from the pictures, but a bit old and too many miles for $1200.

If I was in ND I'd probably fly out to get a good car and then drive it back. But I'm a bit picky when it comes to the cars I get.

I will be probably the only one to suggest a Saturn. They aren’t bad cars if you do the basic maintenance on them, the Ions and L series do NOT hold value whatsoever. The S series can be had for cheap but some people seem to think they’re made from gold or something... the 1.9 was a decent engine if you overlook (and manage) it’s oil consumption. The ECTS is a common issue and for the love of all that’s holy replace it with a brass tipped one if you expect the car to run properly. The 2.2 used in the Ion, Vue, L series is a good engine with the timing chain tensioner being the only issue (and even then it only seems to come up on cars made before 2004 but they revised that part two or three times). Stock, my car gave 35+mpg on rural roads and probably could’ve gotten close to 40 highway with diligent hypermiling. My car has never left me stranded along the road, other than recently when I broke the shift linkage beating it mercilessly on the tail of the dragon. My fault there though.

My wife really liked her 2008 bare bones manual Hyundai Accent. We bought a bare bones 2016 manual Elantra & she loves it. She is a very active women, NEEDING the manual, to fit her personality.
In 2009, one new car sales dealer sold TWO Accents for $14,000..... a good beginning to determine a low price for a used Accent. Our 2008 Accent, now has 152,000+ miles & looks good to sail past 200,000 miles & keep going. Within the last 5000 miles, the Accent got 51MPG. Tho the transmission is low-geared, I use 8% over-sized tires(205x65x15) to reduce rpms on the freeway, which gives the Accent a grown-up feel. SNOW CHAINS WILL NOT CLEAR THE WHEEL WELLS, & you'll need smaller tires to use chains. The timing belt has to be replaced every 60,000 miles, altho I've gone as long as 70,000 miles. The 2012+ Accents have timing chains. The Accent also goes through electronic ignitions every 70,000 miles. The muffler, catalytic convertor, & suspension are original & nothing else has failed, even minor things. The car remains tight, with no creaks or squeaks. Wheel alignments last 40 to 50,000 miles.
The Accent is nice to park. Altho the Accent has a narrow exterior, it has 1+ inches more interior width than other similar small cars. Rear seats are comfy only for kids & medium-sized adults won't be happy. Little storage room in the hatchback rear. With the rear seats folded down, we have gotten lots of stuff in the Accent. But if you need to carry lots of stuff often, look for a bigger car.

In my manual Hyundai Elantra, I pulled up behind another Elantra. As she took off, I could tell she was driving a manual AND she parked to shop! Pulling in nearby, we had a good time talking about manual Elantras.
So..... I got to talk with a...... unicorn! I never realized till reading your post. Wow!

She can drive a manual, just refuses. I ended up getting a 96 Camry, auto, but the owners had service receipts for everything, and it's spent it's whole life driving 55 down the highway. It should get 30+ mpg, can haul a couple people more than just me, should be reliable, and was cheap.

How many women is she?

There's a couple factors at play with that.

The first and largest is bismanonline.com. it started out as a car ad magazine before the internet was a thing, and they launched their website way before Craigslist. As a result Bismarck Craigslist is largely unused. The Fargo Craigslist (which I am actually closer to) is much more useful.

Even with that, people in ND are general very cheap frugal and won't pay $5 for a Craigslist ad when Facebook marketplace is free. I found my Camry on Facebook.

IF I had said woman, it would have been a bad description. She's an artist, a baker, a graphics design maker. She designs the garden & prepares for the ghosts & goblins of Halloween. Married to her, I feel that I have a harem. My slip of the typing finger, said what I needed to say about her.

Alright folks, now that I have the Camry it's question time. The car has 195/70r14 tires. RE92 are 165/65r14. I'm not sure I could narrow up that much, and even if I could I don't really want to go to a shorter diameter as I'm not sure the LRR would pay off. That said, are there any other notable LRR tires closer to my stock size? (or a little taller, plenty of room in the wheel wells). I also don't want to spend a fortune, I can get cheapos in this size for $40-60 a piece, and I'm going to get a pair of winter tires and an extra pair of wheels shortly. I can probably make it to summer with two of the current tires on the back, winter on the front, then replace the rear tires I run this winter with summer tires come spring, and run the other two current tires on the rear through summer, then replace those the next spring.

Kinda rambly, but any input is greatly appreciated.

Not looking to spend a lot of money on this car right now as I'm closing on a house in three weeks. Also I like smaller rim sizes, and I'll probably get the same size for my winter pair as my local scrap yard has a couple for $35 each.

Also I don't buy aftermarket wheels, my experience is that their quality is way way subpar compared to factory wheels

I'm really fond of Michelin Defenders, but they're not cheap.

Although they're not marked as LRR, I'm running Vredestein Quatracs on my Insight right now and they seem to have an excellent balance of RR, quiet and grip for such an inexpensive tire.

I looked at Hankook Kinergy. Cheap (~$60), good reviews, and a 70k treadlife, but I don't know if they are at all LRR. They were one of the results from a LRR tire google search but who knows?

How will this car be used? I'd be wary of going with a smaller diameter if you're going to be spending any time on the highway (shorter gearing).


The current Prius uses a 195 width 15" tire. Not sure what brand, though it's obviously going to be LRR. Might be worth getting those on some cheap steelies.


Also: I assume this is the I4 engine, not the V6?

Yes I4, wouldn't buy a v6 Camry. Definitely not going smaller diameter tires either, I think I could go a size or two taller and be fine though as it has big wheel wells.

Not sure how different your car's drivetrain is from the next gen Camry, but my parents had a 2002 (and now a 2005) I4 that was a surprisingly good highway MPG machine:


https://ecomodder.com/forum/attachme...1&d=1351467646
Thread: Speed vs. MPG chart: 2002 Toyota Camry 2.4 auto (impressive highway MPG sleeper car?)






Note though the gauge that got me the above numbers was later calibrated against a similar car - they were about 10% high. Still very decent though.


The 2002 Camry drag coefficient is supposedly 0.28. That's decent.

It's a shame hatchbacks aren't as aero as sedans, because I certainly appreciate the utility. I've always thought a sedan looks like the proper shape for a car from an aesthetics perspective though. Any hatchback, regardless of make/model, appears as a utility vehicle to me, and loses all notion of luxury or prestige.

The other beauty is in 2 weeks I'm starting a new job, 10 miles closer to home, and instead of the interstate where driving 75 puts you at risk of getting run down, it makes more sense to take the 55 mph county road, and hardly anybody uses it despite it being nice blacktop.

U thinc this webcyst ist wirth precis poofreeding. I don't. But, I know "don'T rump" when I see....IT!

It is vastly easier to put a Kamm back on a hunchback.

Mom keeps track of all of her fill-ups in a notebook. I created a garage entry to digitize it, but even though she always resets both tripmeters (why both?!), she only writes down mileage, not the trip distance.

If I did that I would have an easier time figuring out gaps in my log.

I made a spreadsheet and questioned her data, one tank works out to 17 MPG, another 55, and another 56. I discarded them and have a range of 21.3877 - 32.44873 MPG, averaging 26 MPG. That leaves one tank at 21.x, one at 22.x, one at 23.x, four at 24.x, 27.x, 28.x, 31.x, and 32.x.

I wonder if my tanks vary that much.

However, I usually drive. She runs errands in-town, but when my brother wants me to take him to the store, he has me drive Mom's car, and I have driven every trip to Phoenix for eighteen months except for the last. While I was trying to figure out what was wrong with my Accord I kept borrowing her car. It was the only car we had, I babied it, driving 65 in a 55, probably 50 in a 55, etc.

Does Ecomodder ban people for stupidity? please keep your political garbage out of my car thread.

Sounds like your life is moving in a positive direction on many fronts. Congratulations on all accounts.

yes, though I do wish it wouldn't happen all at once. New job on 10/21, closing on a house 10/25, new car yesterday. I was really hoping the metro would last till after closing, and then I would have probably set a 3k budget for a car. as it is, I paid 750 for the Camry just to keep the belt tight.

You are not talking about a tensioner, are you?

By the way, the 2002 - 2006 Camry tensioner is a pain. This is how Shouty and everyone else says to change the serpentine belt: http://i.imgur.com/xrf0IDt.gif

He complained the original was made of "pot metal," but the new one was high-quality. Well, here is Mom's original:

https://imgur.com/R12cT82.jpg

Here is the high-quality new one on Mom's car with the same part broken: https://i.imgur.com/wBREZWZ.jpg

She towed it to her mechanic who used a special tool. I do not have any idea what it was, all of the tools that I see are basically sockets on breaker bars.

I haven't the faintest clue what you are getting at here, though I'm tired so sorry if it's obvious. I don't think I mentioned the tensioners on this 96, but it's not a serpentine belt system. One belt runs off the crank and powers the alternator and AC, the other runs off the crank and powers the power steering, water pump is (I assume) timing belt driven.

Ok I get it now. "Keep the belt tight" was a metaphor for going about it cheaply, cause I'm a cheapo on most everything. My wife almost talked me into taking a loan for ~3k to buy a "nice" car, but I'd rather pay cash. To be honest if I wasn't coming right up on a house closing I could buy a 3k car cash, but probably never would, again because I'm cheap.

I'll give you a chance (maybe even chances) to ask forgiveness for your puck post.