Need new utility type vehicle
 

My wife is dropping not so subtle hints about wanting me to replace my pickup.

So I have been looking, and haven't been too terribly impressed with what I have been finding.

So here's what I am looking for.

4000lb+ towing
4+ passengers
20+ city, 25+ highway MPG

I am looking for a new or near new vehicle, budget about $25k give or take. $30k max

Rentals and delivery trucks are out of the question, I'm just too rural, and I am usually one of the ones people come to when they need truck type help, so at least the towing capabilities are pretty much a necessity.

What I am looking at so far are the
Nissan Frontier, Toyta Tacoma (4door or access cab)
Nissan Pathfinder (V6 CVT-> 20/26)

The cars or small crosovers don't seem to be rated for more than 1500lbs towing.:mad:

Any other ideas/suggestions?

Take a look at the Colorado/Canyon crew cab. I have had five people in mine for several hours without complaints.

The four cylinder is rated for towing 3000 lbs, the five cylinder 5000 lbs. The four cylinder will easily tow more than 3000 lbs if you don't have to start out on a steep upgrade.

And you can get good gas mileage: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...yon-17070.html

Your wife would love if you could get an overseas Diesel truck :D


In the absence of Diesel compact trucks back there, I'll second on that. BTW which truck are you gonna replace?

Replacing the Frontier. The Jeep is a weekend toy.
It would be nice to be able to get a nice little tubodiesel pickup.

We have had some bad experiences with Chevies in the past, so despite the numbers looking good, I will not be buying another one of their products

you could do a lot worse than a Taco.

How Diesel-friendly is your local DMV? Have you never considered an engine swap?

They wouldn't even get involved. Its not that the engine is wearing out, its that everything else is wearing out that makes her want me to get a new truck.

There is NO way I would ever put a 4000lb trailer behind a vehicle with a CVT. Those things cost so much to rebuild you're best off scrapping the vehicle if one goes bad.

It’s truly pitiful though how few vehicles are out there that can pull a modest size trailer (4000lb), seat 4-5 comfortable and meet your mpg goals (which shouldn’t be far-fetched at all). Good luck in your search.

You're buying a truck for someone else's benefits , or do you (partially) make a living out of that ?

You could keep the truck for the times and uses it's really needed ; and get something more economical as a daily driver.

Sorry to hear that. In 70,000 miles, my truck has needed a front end alignment, one parking brake cable, and a front caliper mount freed up.

How far are you towing? Across town or interstate? I once pulled a dead 1951 Ford pickup with a canopy stuffed with junk, on a rope, from a dead stop, up and over a freeway overpass and across town. The only problem I had was at a traffic light where I found myself next to a hot Mustang coupe. I forgot I had the pickup behind me and snapped the rope. In a 1961 VW panel van.

They go for $12-15K and up restored. With a 1-ton rear axle they can carry their own weight. Your wife would love you for it. :)

A clean-Diesel Touareg is better than a hybrid one.

Nissan warrantees their CVTs for 120k miles. The Murano with a 250 HP V6 is rated to tow 3500 pounds, at least our 06 was rated for that weight. Not trying to really influence your decision but some of the hype about CVTs seems unwarranted, at least to me and CVTs are fairly simple compared to regular autos, but there are shops that can fix either as long as the parts can be purchased separately. Also, many manufacturers will offer or be offering remans in the near future, if they are not already doing so.

regards
Mech

Thanks for all of the responses.

Euro: I use it quite a bit myself, like I said we live in a pretty rural community which means that many things we might need we have to go get. Yes keeping the truck and getting something more efficient is on the table as well.

Freebeard: Freeway, if it was just arround town I could just use Ugly.

Toureg starts at $42k for the TDI, or $62 for the hybrid, thats a bit pricy.

Friends don't let friends buy new VWs.

I was just pointing to Google's first result as a talking point. I should have high-lighted the towing weight in blue—like:
I'm skeptical of the Toureg because a replacement key costs like $300.

If you think outside that tiny little box of years, you could have a Vanagon with a Subaru engine and a Porsche 901 transaxle with a transmission cooler in the front bumper. Or 4-wheel drive.

Think of the look on your wife's face when you brought *that* home. :)

She would shake her head and roll her eyes :p

Thinking in that sort of box though,
I would import a smallish @150-200 hp turbo diesel, then build it up.
take 2 compact to midsized pickups, one with the long bed, and one with the quad cab. Chop the frames and weld the two sections I wanted together.

Strip it down to the frame and go over every joint and section and improve it stronger than stock.

Stick a custom Dana44 under the rear with an air bag helper.
Geared so that the final drive will have the engine turning at approx 2000
rpm at 75mph.

Rear disk brakes, upgraded front brakes.

Beef up the front suspenssion (for the heavier engine).

Take it to a friends brother to have the interior done up nice (to make wife happy)

Mate a nv3500 or equivalant manual transmission, or find another nv4500 (granny first, 26% od)

I should be able to haul 2000lbs+ cargo, and tow well over 5000lbs while still getting low to mid 20's in town, and high 20's to low 30's on the highway (unloaded)

However the time and work required are way up there.

Edit to add: Any new electronic security key will cost that much

It would be worth it just for that, right?

The best plans start with the drive-train, build the chassis around it and add body as necessary. :) It's the long way around the barn, though.

Sometimes the old ways are the best.

Hydraulic dump stake bed.

If you are wanting a car that can tow, The new magnums have a surprising towing capacity. Almost 4000lbs! Or a caravan if you need bigger. They both have the same max. towing capacity.

It looks like the magnum has been discontinued, the only one htat meets the towing is the Durango and it falls short on the FE.

Thanks for the thought though.

Unfortunately I don't have a barn to build it in :D

yeah '08 was the last year... I always liked them. I am a wagon/van guy :D I am guessing an Astro is not in the running either ;)

TheEnemy -- Figure of speech. 'Hydraulic dump stake bed'—dualies in the back, flat bed with stake sides; if, for instance, you're hauling landscaping materials it does half the work for you.

chrisgerman1983 -- I didn't care one way or the other about the Magnum until I saw one with the rear hatch open. It's like the old Studebaker Wagonaire station wagon.

:thumbup: I love the hatches on them! The also fit the template alright...

The towing ratings are suggestions. The 3500-lb limit on a number of them is that the OEM's don't really test them, they'd rather you buy a pickup, etc. What kind of towing is the real question, and many/most can be fitted with a proper weight-distribution hitch that makes them overall compatible, even better than some pickups due to better vehicle performance dynamics (pickups are roll-over prone, etc).

Climate, terrain, expected load and expected distances all play their part. The tow vehicle [TV] may need better wheels/tires, shocks, a trans cooler, etc than as equipped from factory. Other than that, the best choice of a TV comes down to the one best suited for solo duties. Focus there, first.

Certified Pre-Owned? If you can get a manual a year or two old it should last you awhile. I wouldn't trust a Chrysler automatic though.

It if makes you feel better, the LX cars, 300, Charger, Magnum use a Mercedes derived 5 speed automatic. It's the one they used if their high powered cars for years.

My Nissan has a 3500lb tow rating, with its bumper, I did tow more than that a few times, but it didn't handle it very well. The brakes mostly. It would do better with a better trailer/hitch setupSolo duties, 3 miles to work and back, errends my wife sends me on, usually short trips under 3 miles one way. The occasional trip to the larger hardware store 60 miles away, with an even less frequent trip to the U-Pull for Jeep parts 80 miles away. 3-4 times a year recovering a friends broken vehicle, or my broken Jeep.

I could see getting something like my wifes accord to tow 3500lbs, but with the unibody, and front weel drive I would have reservations about how long it would handle the stress without having to reinforce it.

I would put an upgraded tranmission cooler on any automatic I would use for towing, I have seen too many overheat even without hauling loads. I prefer a manual, but they are getting so hard to find new anymore.

Climate: hot dry dusty, mountains, desert, occasional snow (the last couple of years were pretty bad), often not the best roads.

I have done some pretty "stupid" things with both my truck and the Jeep, and have yet to roll either one. The whole roll over hazard for these is way overblown.

They did look like they were designed pretty well.

A late model caravan would work. I think it has the towing capability, with the larger V-6, anyway. Just make sure it has a big tranny cooler on it.

Their newer transaxles seem to be much better. I had an 02 caravan which shifted like new when I sold it with 130K. It had a very large factory tranny cooler on it, which I think is the main reason they do much better these days.

I have been discussing the options with my wife, she seems to really like the idea of the Pathfinder so far. She is really fond of the idea that it would have the capability to trailer the Jeep too. This next weekend when we are at her parents for Thanksgiving we will take a look at them.

Grand Caravan 17/25, 3600lbs towing.

Ignorance was bliss, if I didn't know as much as I do now it would be easier to choose a vehicle, now that I have the knowledge and skills to build my ideal vehicle, just not the time, I am less satisfied with what is available.

It's pretty much a matter of setting up a weight-distributing hitch. Some vehicles can use off-the-shelf, others need fabrication.

Below are some lash-ups by CAN AM RV. The TT's weigh from 6k to 9k. All of these vehicles are "rated" much lower.

http://www.airforums.com/attachments...5_1024x768.jpg

http://www.canamrv.ca/files/5712/886...ullet001-1.JPG

http://cdn.airforums.com/forums/atta...3&d=1251248118

Jaguar Towing Airstream

Click on and read "Hitch Hints". More of those are online as well.

What Andrew Thomson does is no different than what we did in the 1960's and later. But with greater expertise comes better, more capable set-ups.

There is a very good range of vehicles that can be set up properly. Define for yourself exactly what you would need so far as towing is concerned.

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So if I'm reading things right...

1. With a weight distribuion hitch I can handle as much toung weight as the load capacity of the vehicle.

2. As long as I have enough power to pull the trailer through the air.

3. As long as I have enough cooling (particularly on an automatic transmission)

Then I should be fine.

So to be able to smoothly trailer my 3000+ lb Jeep approx 200 hp, upgraded transmission cooler, and trailer brakes?

Pretty much.

If the load is a construction trailer of cut logs being yanked down Forest Service roads, then obviously we are outside of what many vehicles could do in towing on improved surfaces. With some reasonable restrictions (climate, terrain, road, & load) there is no real reason to confine ourselves to tow vehicles that hurt the pocketbook in every mile of operation towing or solo.

It is the trailer (any type) where help is wanted in making life easier for the TV [tow vehicle] given that opportunity. Low center-of-gravity, torsion axles, disc brakes, virtual pivot point hitch, etc., all of these contribute to making life easier for the operator. That one is using a more economical TV (and likely "safer" vehicle in re road performance) rather well pays for any changes to trailers, for best hitch rigging, brakes, etc.

No trucking firm, for example, expects to use "generic" spec trucks to make a living. The margins are too thin. Very carefully specified components are tailored to carefully studied environment where the work is performed. I say we can do the same: Rural or urban; 24/7 operation or only when chosen; etc, etc, slice away what isn't needed. Most loads don't really change, IOW. We tend to do the same over and over. Under these same conditions keep slicing away the fat via analysis.

Expect that an ATF cooler (possibly also PSF) is required. A wiring kit for a 7-way harness. Best brake controller. Wider wheels and lower aspect tires dependent on vehicle & load. Aftermarket shock absorbers. The best TV's also feature short overhang (rear axle center distance to rear bumper); or why a Yukon is better than a Suburban despite a shorter wheelbase. Etc.

IOW, the vehicle which best suits the operators solo needs and can also tow a given trailer or load is the one to have. Define the towing needs. As Thomson says (roughly paraphrased) "I'd rather have a trailer 6' longer than 1' taller". Aero is crucial. Open versus closed trailers is first cut as the load on the former can have terrible aero.

FWIW, I'm impressed by the Honda Odyssey, solo & TT towing, in what I read. Were I to give up my pickup that van would be on my short list as TV for the TT seen in my signature. I'd start with an e-mail / phone call to Mr Thomson for my TT needs as he will consult.

IMO, use this minivan for your comparisons of all other vehicles as generic good choice in your initial survey.

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I'm having trouble finding available hitches for different vehicles, went to husky.com.

Nothing I can find for the cars exceeds class 2, and the best MPG for the SUV's and crossovers I can find is the 2013 Pathfinder at 20/26.

I did find the Honda Pilot hybrid funny because it had a disclaimer *not inteded for off road use :eek:

I'd get with Thomson about a specific vehicle hitch (fabrication via plans). We none us once-upon-a-time had pre-made hitches. They were all custom-built.

As before: define the load (height, weight, length). That will "tell" most about what tow vehicle will be adequate given terrain, use, etc (to your satisfaction, not necessarily to the questions in this thread).

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I test drove the Pathfinder today, gave it a good romp and still got 14mpg (per the OEM display). It should be on par with what I get in my current pickup.

Its basically a beefed up minivan.

The CVT transmission kept the RPM low and steady until I romped it, where after the typical automatic delay the RPM went to something like 3600 and remained steady. Acceleration was smooth and consistant (a bit wierd for the first time). The tires were at 47psi according to the telemetry, even so the ride was smooth without the harshness I have gotten used to at that tire pressure.

Being a larger SUV type vehicle it did wallow about a bit and took quite a few turns on the wheel to get it to manuver sharply. It did not have a lot of body roll and handled the hard manuvering better than my pickup. It did turn significantly better when I was into the gas.

Reasonably-sized real SUVs are gradually being phased out. BTW why not to get a 2nd-gen Ford Explorer and slap a Volkswagen TDI into it?

I'd test drive a FORD FLEX with the Eco-Boost engine also. That's a powerhouse tow motor.

Flex with the base 6cyl engine is approx $2000 more, and gets 2mpg less.

My wife and I rode in the back of an explorer shortly after the redesign to make them more stable, and almost threw up because the back end was swaying so badly.