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New Car Advice??!! (5-seater, 40+ mpg, 5 years old or less, $14k budget)
Not sure where to post this.
I introduced myself. No replies. So, here goes....... I am in the market for a "NEW" car. Budget $14k It MUST seat 5 and I would like to see 40+ mpg. I am a car enthusiast and WOULD build one of these crazy electric/ hybrid/ Experimental vehicles in a heartbeat...... BUT..... I am MARRIED. I have a 1950 Studebaker Pickup and a 1951 Chevy Business coupe hot rod. My WIFE drives a 2004 VW passat wagon with power God knows EVERYTHING..... Time to replace it. So... I convinced her we need something more fuel effiecient. I am ready to take the plunge and find a new hobby (fuel efficiency). So..... out there in Ecomodder....land..... WHAT....in your OPINION would be the best BASIS...the best "Testbed" for an "Eco-mod" challenge. Keep in mind... it MUST be newer (likely 5 years old or newer), have creature comforts, and be UNDER $14,000 smacker-roos! So far..... in the running: Scion XB and XD, Honda FIT, VW TDI (used) and the Nissan CUBE. I am leaning HEAVILY towards a NISSAN CUBE. NEW 2012 for 14k and change + tax, title, tags..... Keep in mind I have had old cars, Hot Rods and GERMAN cars. I (and my wife especially) will not be caught DEAD in a homely econo-box. In fact..I checked out the mazda 3 Skyactiv (out of budget)...and settled on ONLY the hot-hatch. BUT... can't justifuy $20k+ for the upscale model required to get Skyactiv. So........ given the budget, and the parameters, what would YOU pick? > |
I'm not sure what you mean by homely econobox. Most of the cars now a days have pretty good fit and finish even if they are a subcompact.
That being said, unless your wife drives for good fuel economy and/or does 99% highway driving at reasonable speeds (speed limit or less) none of those vehicles (save the TDI) will get you the 40+ mpg you are looking for. A hybrid would. Pretty much any car hybrid would achieve your 40 mpg you're looking for. So, in your price range you'd be looking at a Civic Hybrid, Prius, or maybe even an Insight (if you are willing to plunk down just a little more). |
Thanks for the reply.
I am realistic. And I am a motorhead. So.... ideally...I would like to build a lifted VW Westfalia camper TDI hybrid AWD with a safari rack ...fully self contained and capable of running on nearly anything combustible including bio-diesel..... But....I am married and this will be the wife's commuter. So....NO PROJECTS. I have to BUY something newer. Also, we are on the West Coast....Seattle....so people are a little weird up here. Sand Beige sub compact 4 door sedans are everywhere....but the "HIP" younger Seattlites (like my wife) are into quirky cars. IE: Honda Element, Prius, Smart cars, Toyota IQ, Fiat, Mini cooper, Audi TT, VW Beetle, Nissan Cube, etc...... In my defense.... I am from back East....land of the black LINCOLN Town Car that gets 12 mpg....... So... I guess my question is about economics. Personally... I could find a used GEO METRO and get 50MPG pretty easily. Or buy an old Beetle and convert it to electric (quite a few of those here around town)..... BUT.... again, I am Married and the wife will be the primary driver. Her car is a 2004 purchased new and gets 25 or so on the hiway and a WORST of 20 in traffic and depending on weather. My goal is to buy something cheap ($14k or less) that runs on cheap gas, cheap tires, cheap oil changes, etc.... that be be modded conservatively and lends itself to mods (already aero-dynamic) and already a gas sipper. That being said.... SHE has input. It has to have power windows, keyless entry, etc. I would be curious how many eco-modders have wives that will drive a modded car with no A/C or power accessories :) So... I figure 40+ mpg is the target (and I would be happy with 32, 33, 34, 35+ while getting there). I won't pay a premium for the Mazda "Skyactiv" technology...because I will NEVER get that money back in fuel savings. Hybrids are OUT... too expensive and used models will need potential expensive repairs (if anyone is curious--check Seattle Craigslist--our used car market is OUTRAGEOUS). That leaves cheap gas powered 4 bangers and TDI. VW is one of the only makers with a TDI in our price range and most are pre 2005 with UP TO 200,000 miles! The Golf is too small and Jetta and Passat Wagons are hard to come by. BUT... my wife would JUMP at a 2005 Passat Wagon TDI with low miles...... Her VW is worth around $8k... so with tax and title, etc... we are paying around $8k for the new ride. I found a 2010 "CUBE" used for $12,500 with 10k miles on the clock. They are rated at 35 hiway. Forums show that MOST owners are reporting 29-31 average. I could see 35 being an acheivable goal with some mods...BUT........40? The car is shaped like a........a...... well, a CUBE. I just can't imagine overcoming the aero-dynamics! The Scion XD is MUCH more slippery....but fuel mileage averages seem to be less overall. We looked at the Honda "FIT".... but not sure if we will all......"FIT". It's frustrating! DAMN automakers! I had a 1963 Nova Super Sport with a 283 V8/ powerglide automatic as a teen in the 80's... it was good for 18-25 MPG!!!!!!!!!!!! My 1954 Chevy coupe with a 235 6 banger 3 on the tree was CHERRY and good for the same 20+ MPG! Never had one... but the little Nash Metropolitan from the 50's was good for 30+ MPG CONSISTENTLY!!!!! My wife's first car was a used Nissan Pulsar that was a consistant 30 MPG'r..... So...WHY....OH, WHY do the 2012 models (smaller cars --excluding hybrids and electric)....pretty much ALL average 30ish MPG? GEEZ. We take weekend trips, Ski, Hike, etc...... so whatever we get has to have room (roof racks defeat the purpose here). And with the miles we drive... it's finally time to get at least ONE vehicle in the household that sips gas. Any additional feedback would be appreciated! |
I think the blanket dismissal of hybrids is a bit much.
I'd be looking for a 2004+ Prius. They're as bullet-proof reliable as you can get from Toyota. TDI diesels must have an equal "premium" over a plain gas car as a hybrid does. Stay away from the boxy/cube-y trendy vehicles. You have to drive them quite slowly to get excellent highway mileage from them. And I doubt your wife will be happy to hear that the "solution" to their mediocre highway mileage is an aerodynamic boat tail. :) |
I would consider a hybrid... but am concerned about budget. Used cars are really expensive up here...and people in Seattle LOVE hybrids and Subarus.....
surfing Craigslist now..... under $15k seem to be 2006 and older....... I would also need to know what expenses would be expected on a 15 year old hybrid with 150k miles......... (if I buy a 2003 for example and own it for another 5 years)...... Thanks. |
What about an HHR? Smaller, yet i hear they are roomy. Just looking on craigslist and they are surprisingly cheap. You could grab a SS with a turbo so you have some pep.
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Have you checked the MPG of a turbo HHR?? :confused: It's nowhere close to 40! (Neither is the non-turbo.)
A.D.D. - you should check the ratings of the cars you're considering: Search by Make - fueleconomy.gov |
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An HHR, really? Lets see how that stacks up against the competition. :rolleyes:
http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1337882360 I took your suggestion ADD and did do a craigslist search in your area. I found a ton of vehicles for sale that meet nearly your exact criteria. I didn't even post nearly all the cars that I found. 2007 TOYOTA PRIUS PACKAGE # 6 ... 45K ... RED ... TAN LEATHER ... 2007 2006 Toyota Prius Hybrid 5DR Hatchback Low 44k Miles Black 2005 HONDA CIVIC HYBRID - 50MPG - BLUE - 52K MILES - AUTO-SEDAN This one is a steal: 2010 HONDA INSIGHT HYBRID Low Miles 2005 Toyota Prius 2006 Toyota Prius Liftback, Traction Control, Push Start Button, #4010 2006 Toyota Prius Hybrid◄-QUALITY SELECTION!@Select Motors 2005 Toyota Prius-Very practical Hybrid!!Free service contract?? As for the maintenance of hybrids, the Prius has one of the lowest costs to own of any vehicle out there. If you're really worried about things shy away from the Honda hybrids as they tend to have a few more issues (though most are easily fixable if you know what you're doing). |
I have had good results with my Civic Hybrid. It would meet all of your requirements. Been driving it for 3 years and only had two tanks where the mileage was below 40 MPG, due to heavy snow and mountain driving.
I would look for a 2006 or newer Civic hybrid as they made alot of improvements from 2005 to 2006 model years. Welcome to ecomodder and Good luck with your search! |
Wow! You guys are great!
I appreciate all of the feedback! I actually looked at the HHR, and ALL of the "Boxy" type vehicles (Scion, Cube, PT Cruiser, Soul, etc)..... Even checked out/ drove the Highlander hybrid (gas and cost are out). So far only the Cube and Scion are of interest (the cube and xb offer high roof loading areas with fold down seats). HATE TO SAY IT..... but we are station wagon/ suv lifestyle folks. "Fun--recreational" vehicles over the last 15 years have been: a lifted and modified Landcruiser (drove it to Alaska for vacation once), 2 subaru wagons and the VW passat wagon. Years ago...I had VW camper-buses (2-3 over a 5 year period).... if I could have one of those that gave me 40 MPG..I would NEVER be without one til the day I died............ I saw most of those Hybrids on Craigslist. One concern..... several are "Reconstructed/rebuilt title". That means they were "totaled". Now, I have bodyshop experience and "totaled" could mean minor damage--- but if the airbags deployed....it's TOAST as far as the insurance company, liability and pretty much any chance of ever having a clean title again. Don't get me wrong... when I was younger I had a couple of "Branded title" cars. One VW Golf in particular was a SCREAMING deal! Another was a buddies 5.0 Mustang Nevada hiway patrol interceptor (all police, taxi, etc.. vehicles are "branded" so to speak). It's VERY common up here in Seattle... we have DOZENS of car dealers that buy wrecks, rebuild them as resell for profit...nothing wrong with that--- but NOT for me (at this age). Another concern I have is a few friends with problems with their hybrids. 2 were Honda civics with battery problems, one was a Prius that was likely just a lemon. My Mother in law works for a Toyota Dealer and sings their praises... but admits that they have seen some pretty high repair bills. When it comes to buying cars, I usually get extraordinary deals... but I am not motivated to have a car payment. If it were just me.. I would consider something less than $6k (and well back of book)...drive it for a year (or 2-3) and sell it for nearly what I originally paid. (done it many times). Again, my concerns with the hybrids are WHAT exactly I can do to it myself. I mean, a cheap little 4 banger will get a full synthetic oil change every 4-5k miles with a dealer oil filter for less than $50 (diy), cheap tires, brakes for $50 an axle or less, cheap Costco >87 octane gas, etc. If the alternator goes out.. I can diy for $100, etc, etc, etc...... With the internet....diy tutorials are 100% better than the old Bentley manual and common mechanic knowledge. Also looking at resale. I won't pay a premium because it's desireable... but also expect to spend no more than $3500 a year TOTAL OPERATING COSTS... based on 15k miles a year... and 1/3 depreciation over 5 years... on fuel, maintenance, etc...... Obviously I would like to spend less.... With my fuzzy math... that's 5 years on a $15k car... with 32.5 mpg average + oil changes, tires, brakes and possibly a timing belt/chain (75k-ish after 5 years or added onto the miles on it when I bought it used) $2k in fuel, $1k in depreciation.. the rest in maintenance. I would love to spend 1/2 that a year............ So...I guess I will go drive a certified pre owned Prius and Civic.... to see how they drive and how they fit into our lifestyle.... if they pass muster.. I'll look for a "deal" I am also looking at what all of you are driving and what kind of mileage you are getting. Also... HOW IN THE WORLD is that green Scion getting such high mileage??????? Still gotta drive the Honda Fit too (looks too small though). Thanks again. |
I would look at searchtempest.com and expand your search are to at least 600 miles. A 2006-7 Prius should be findable for under 10K. I think they are 10K oil changes, brakes last forever, and mid forties mpg driven like a normal car. Battery problems are rare unlike the Honda hybrids. If this is her commuter car, rent an SUV or whatever for those family trips.
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2011 Ford Fiesta $10,500, but it is about 2800 miles from you and it has a salvage title.
Less than 5k miles, but no warranty other than the 90 day my buddy gives with every car he sells. 3k miles on mine with no issues. regards Mech |
A.D.D.
It sure sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. ;) I would agree that a used Prius has the best chance of meeting your best of all worlds and I-want-it-now desires… except maybe cost. Some thoughts: * As a general rule. DO NOT get involved with a salvage title Prius. There are just too many things that can go wrong in any of the multiple electrical/electronic systems. There are some very few folks who can successfully keep such a car running reliably but they have prior hybrid experience and access to Prius-specific diagnostic tools. * The reason why used Prii are relatively expensive is they have an excellent reputation for reliability, low upkeep costs, high MPGs, whiz-bang electronics, and lastly the "green aura." It's highly unlikely that you can stay local and get the killer deal you're looking for in or near Seattle. As others have said, I suspect that you'll have to expand your search area. *Prii go by Model numbers, the higher the model number, the more electronic gimmickry, leather seats, OEM GPS, etc. Model 1 are fleet sales, very basic, and hard to find. I think you would want a Model 2 or 3. No GPS, but then he OEM GPS is considered to be one of the worst out there. * There is reason to believe that Prii from states with very high summer temps (AZ, TX, FL, etc.), that sit out all day in the sun may have reduced HV battery life. * If your daily commute is less than 10 miles one way, you will be lucky to see 40 MPG due the Prius' warm up cycle. You'll easily see 40+ MPGs on your outings though… unless you're hanging extraneous gear on the outside of the car. Roof-top carriers and bike racks (on the roof or behind) wreck the car's excellent aerodynamics, one of the significant features that contribute to the cars excellent MPGs at speed. * Although advertised as such, the Gen II Prius is not a real 5 adult person car. The body is just too narrow. Maybe three children between 8 and 13, but they'll be cramped. Two car seats is the practical limit. On the plus side, there is plenty of legroom in the rear. * If you plan on doing a much driving in the snow, you'll need real snow tires. The Gen II Prius has a rather quirky traction control system that severely limits drive wheel spin. Apparently 2008 and 2009 MYs allow some limited spin, but earlier years effectively shut off power to the drive wheels. (Do some searching at PRIUSchat to get more info) Best of luck to you. :thumbup: |
Rokeby has a pretty good summary. However, I would disagree with the 10 mile commute comment though. I have a 7 mile commute and since its been warm out I've been averaging 60 mpg tanks with my Prius. In winter the mileage is closer to 50.
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Well,
Drove the "FIT".... did not like it at all. Also Drove a Prius. It took a little getting used to...but wasn't too much different. Actually better than I expected. What I did not like was the Interior of the Prius. The cargo area was bigger than I expected... but the Prius we looked at was not is great shape, lots of scrapes, scratches and minor damage. The search continues........ |
How about newer Huyndais? They evidently can return good economy, and the build quality is light-years better than when they first showed up in the US. It's on par with many of the Japanese brands and the US brands--and arguably better than most of the European ones.
-soD |
What was wrong with the Fit? Which generation did you drive? The newer ones are a little larger, and I think they are one of, if not the most practical car designs out there. My brother Nathan is almost 6'-7" and he loves his 2010 Fit. 40MPG is doable with a few mods and good ecodriving.
The 2nd gen Prius should easily get over 50mpg or even over 60mpg with a little practice. It is bigger than the Fit, but a little less nimble. |
To be honest....
It's all about personal preference. I PERSONALLY.... do NOT like Japanese cars. It's kind of like the old joke (BONUS POINTS if you get it): Heaven and Hell Heaven Is Where: The French are the chefs The Italians are the lovers The British are the police The Germans are the mechanics And the Swiss make everything run on time Hell is Where: The British are the chefs The Swiss are the lovers And the Germans are the police The French are the mechanics The Italians make everything run on time My take on that......is that if AMERICANS could: design a car with an Italian coachbuilder, German Engineering, Japanese Economy and Reliability and Swedish Safety..... With the AMERICAN POWER and SIZE............... "Heaven"? YES... as AMERICANS.... we want our Cake and EAT IT TOO... (just DON'T finance it!!!!!!). And WHY NOT? We have a unique combination of wide open land and nearly ALL of our own natural resources. So CULTURALLY....Yes... we want our cake and eat it too! Of course it's 2012 and we all woke up from our wasteful party days with a WICKED hangover.............. I DID.......... end up buying a car. (JUST brought it home). It IS Japanese............ And I will reveal it in a new thread......... |
Well, when you do post the new thread and reveal all, come back here and add a link to it.
Otherwise the people who have contributed will not necessarily see the new thread (whereas people who have posted here are automatically notified of updates to THIS thread.) I'm curious how many of your own stated criteria were met in the purchase! |
THANK YOU TO ALL!!! I apprecite the suggestions and help!
I did not start this thread to reinforce my own opinions. I really wanted everyone's input. Unfortunately... I didn't get exactly what i was looking for....and that was something I had overlooked. I was hoping to find a "Magic" vehicle...and no surprise.. it simply does not exsist. I will say this: I received a LOT of encouragement to get a hybrid. But... they don't make a Hybrid "wagon" or "Crossover" or "Suv" I would consider either budget or reliability.. Also, I can and do work on my own vehicles.. but, don't know enough about hybrids to feel comfortable fixing something myself (or paying someone with the knowledge that I could do it myself and how much that would cost). So........... my original query was: I am in the market for a "NEW" car. Budget $14k It MUST seat 5 and I would like to see 40+ mpg. Also, I added: So... I figure 40+ mpg is the target (and I would be happy with 32, 33, 34, 35+ while getting there). I considered about 10 vehicles. We narrowed it down to about 5 (VW TDI, FIT, SCION, CUBE and SOUL). Actually, the Sould was never a contender........ We drove a few hybrids and I liked them overall. Just TOO MUCH $$$ for what's on the market. One looked like it was a "taxi" in another life, another was stinky had a lot of miles (probably hard miles)...the rest were just either too old for the money or out of budget. (We had to be really careful not to bump ourselves). I drove the Hyundai Elantra I think. It boasts 40mpg...... BUT...on the forums everyone seemed to be getting closer to 30 COMBINED!!! Plus they are pretty expensive even used. (the new technology is TOO new). AND... no wagons only sedan--so less luggage space. We looked at and drove the FIT. It was OK. The rear area was frankly too small. Again... this vehicle needs to suit OUR needs. That pretty much left the Scion and Cube. For the heck of it....I drove some 10+ year old vehicles that were really clean for their age and debated straight cash with some left over... Ultimately....it was all about replacing a German car with leather, heated seats, power everything memory everything that rode quiet and smooth with just over 100k on the clock.....with a "Beater". Don't get me wrong....I have a 1951 Chev Business coupe that looks like what people would call a "Rat Rod".. faded original paint and 70k original miles with a hot rodded v-8. The wife has a grad degree and works in an office... so she has parameters. AGAIN... don't get me wrong... we bought the VW...because it was $10k-$15k less than the Audi wagon and had 90% of the bells and whistles, etc.. and was built IN Germany (not brazil or Mexico)....AND... my wife drive's a "Shiney" almost 9 year old Passat now.... and she would drive a "SHINEY" Toyota, Honda, etc.... just as well. So..... ultimately.....I did what any responsible car shopper would do: I let my KIDS PICK!!!!!!!!!!! From 4 Scions, 3 Nissan Cube's, a Used Mazda 3, and a few other cars. I kinda loaded the deck. I "Vetted" all of the prospects and let them sit in LOTS of cars. They liked the Mazda 3 "speed"...until I explained the fuel economy thing and sat them in the "bean can" model......... and that was that. They Hyundai Elantra was TRULY comparable as far as luxury (in a Japanese way)...but too expensive and I didn't like what I read on the forums about mpg. The boys did like a little sporty 3 door coupe though. We looked at a LOT of cars..... and they settled on the Scion and Cube. As far as influence... I "Directed" them away from stuff that didn't meet the criteria (too much $$, too small, bad mpg, etc)....Otherwise I made it FUN and let them decide. Being little kids they ended up liking the Scion and the Cube. With that... I went shopping. Negotiations are my Forte'.... my wife...not so much. 3 trips later.... we bought something. My M.O. was as follows: I pulled on the lot, drove out where the car was i wanted to look at..... then when the saleman came up I sized them up. If they were slimey, creepy, or running 100 mph... I brushed them off....if they were friendly, I was friendly. In most cases the vehicle was locked... they went to get the key. It is also in their best interest to get you to DRIVE the car... so I did that several times. having kids was a HUGE plus! They were cranky, bored, the car was cramped, etc. It allowed us to drive without the salesman a few times. If the vehicle met our requirements.. I told the salesman I used to be in the car business ( I was)...then teased about all of the perks I missed.... In most cases it landed me in the Sales manager's office... with him showing me the "slip" when they bought the car at auction, took it in trade or bought it from another dealer. if it was over what i wanted to pay-- I danced with them a little and told them I would stop back by on the "be-back" bus..... Finally we found a Scion Xd that was clean with low miles.. but they wouldn't budge on the price. We left. We liked the Scion but would rather have an XB. We found a 2011 Nissan Cube brand new with every accessory known to man.... but it was $1k under msrp and $18k was waaaay too much. Another Cube was beat to death, scratches, rear wiper missing, etc. Dealer said it was the owners ex-wife's car (lol). We found a nice clean 2009 XB...and negotiated them down to $14k. It had 25k on the clock. I wanted to pay less. We looked at a white 2010 Cube with a body kit.. 15k miles.... but "Sale Price" was $17k... and the guy said that was bottom dollar. I would have tried harder.. but i had to go with my gut. Several other cars (non scion or cube) in the mix over the 3 different days. Most were during the week except the 09 xb and 2 cubes. We drove about 35 miles to take the boys to a Lego store and stop off somewhere we wanted to go... while at it... we looked at another Scion and as the day wound down........ a 2010 Nissan Cube at a Chevy store. It was advertised online for $15k and change "On sale". We pulled up to it and the "Hang Tag" said: $14k and change. WOW! The salesman was less than optimal. He was nice enough but kida Jekyll and Hyde....... We drove it and liked it. It had Waaaay more equipment than I wanted. We pulled back in and the salesman went stright into "SALES" mode. "He said.. let get this DONE". I gave him the: "we looked at several and need a minute"... that seemed to irritate the guy. Also.. no manner of "I was in the car business" worked on this guy. American car dealerships have a "Bad" rep... and it's because of their business model. Take it or leave it.......... The good thing was... this particular dealer sold a LOT of trucks and had several classic Chevies on display (owners cars)...so they had NO DESIRE to have that Cube on the lot and knew NOTHING about it. So we spent 45 minutes in the "box"... never met the sales manager.. and they were very flat and high pressure. I have purchsed "a lot" of vehicles over the years....and sold cars for a living... so ...eh....it wasn't so bad. Again, the boys were my wingman... thirsty, hungry, bored.. "we wanna go the the lego store"........ I offered $14k even.. they balked. Finally the salesman came back with a completely different attitude. He said: "We can't sell it to you. (a new ploy?).... the tag inside was a mistake". I say:...."yeah, well I offered THAT"... pointing to the sheet.... it was a little less than what they wanted on the tag with a detail and a tank of gas, car fax both keys and ALL of the books. He left....for a while. The sales manager came over and said " we made a mistake...blah, blah, blah".... after a little trouble.. they honored it. Also tried to get me on plates.. it already had good plates and tags. They took it in trade on a Camaro.....so if they UA'd it (under allowed)..they still made $$$....if it WAS a mistake... good for me.. bummer for them. The point is... we got what we wanted. It suits our needs and clocked 35 mpg on the way home (after side trips) of about 65 miles. So far, the computer says: 31 mpg with ALL local stop and go for 2 days....but the computers are usually off.. so we'll see when this thing runs out of gas. The specifics: 2010 Nissan Cube Krom edition. 12k miles. Purchased Oct 2010.. so about 17 months of warranty left. It's an automatic (CVT) and is as clean as imaginable (I found one tiny scratch and a couple marks on the plastic trim in the back). All that was on the carfax was the original purchase and one registration renewal. The orignal owner was also from a pretty expensive area North of Seattle (good sign). High Retail book for KBB was like $19k.... low trade in was around $13k...... So......that's it. It NOT ALWAYS....about the best mileage. I was very careful to choose something that fit our lifestyle. I have a full sized Chevy truck that is good for maybe 15-18 mpg on a good day. Our next vehicle (in a year or 2 will likely be a Tahoe/ Denali/ Expedition...type truck for towing horses). We'll see if the Cube gets ANYWHERE near 40 mpg... and being 2 years old (3 soon) will give us nearly a year and a half to resell it as a 3 year old with xxx miles...if it doesn't meet our expectations. Time to detail the Passat, make any minor repairs, service and sell it on............. |
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I did.
What it came down to.......... I have x number of dollars. I refuse to finance x number of dollars....... and in the long run maintenance should be pretty low. I might regret saying this....but I seriously doubt this Cube will EVER see 100k miles under my ownership. Some vehicles we keep for a decade, others we change like the seasons................ The vehicle fits all of our stuff without a roof rack (huge priority) and it's "fun" for the kids and wife. THEY are happy. Hybrids are AWESOME. Period. However, so are DIESEL CARS. Both are cost prohibitive this time around. 50 mpg would be GREAT! But right now... 40 would be GREAT....35 would be acceptable (average) and I could LIVE with 30. For the price... if it doesn't work out.. I should be able to sell it for what I paid or not get beat up too badly. (values are really high up here). The $14k for the cube was pushing it.... MAX amount of money to spend. My original budget was around $10k and pay ALL CASH. BUT, $10k doesn't get you much up here in the "Great Northwest"........ The Credit Union has great rates and we decided to "Bump" ourselves....so 2010 car under warranty that fits all of our stuff and I am optimistic about the 30+ mileage....... So, I will employ MANY of the techniques spelled out on this forum to acheive that goal. Depending on when and what we buy next (some sort of truck capable of towing a horse trailer)... we may swap the cube for some sort of hybrid. (when inside space isn't at such a premium). I guess I should have also mentioned my other vehicle is a later model Chevy extended cab pick-up. We need to upgrade that as well sooner than later...but the back half will need to be closed on the next one (suburban, tahoe, denali, expedition)...for a bumper pull 2 horse slant. NOW........ I have been thinking about some sort of a little hot rod project..... with a little 4 banger (maybe even motorcycle engine) in the back (mid engined?)...and some sort of kinetic regenerative braking/ electric motor front drive...and subaru type viscous coupling differential for AWD swap front to back... run the gas engine under load and to charge the cells...cut out on flat and downhill.... electric motor torque off the line and on steep inclines........????? Depending on gearing........... Hmmmmmm..... I bet I could get the entire thing down to 1200 pounds...kinda like a Morgan cycle-car. These things were REALLY popular in the 20's and 30's........ Main . |
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The Original, 1615 http://i.imgur.com/KDSML.gif A mid 20th century update http://i.imgur.com/mZUVv.jpg |
Please post a fuel log on the Cube. My wife drives an xD and it is fairly hard to get it to 35MPG. I think you will find it harder with the Cube.
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Will do....
The XD has the Camry engine though.. I think. Pretty sure the cube is based on the Versa........ YES.... 35mpg will be tough with a cinder block on wheels. BUT... driving around town (day 3) 210 miles so far since we bought it... computer says 29.1....... Not sure how far off it is...... We'll see. We will likely be filling it up next Friday... that will be the "Baseline"................ |
I was gonna suggest a Subaru Forester, as I have a 2002 L model 5 speed, and averaged 32 mpg on a 625 mile highway trip last weekend. Car has no mods, except 40 psi in the tires. And I wasn't really doing any hypermiling of any sort. A more mindful driver could easily manage 35 mpg and with mods maybe 40. AWD is always nice to have in the winter and you can fit nearly anything in it.
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Wow! Never even thought of the Forester. Dismissed the Outback............
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Good thread, I averaged 32 in my Altima CVT and my wife averaged close to 29 in her Rogue. She is not a hypermiler, just a conservative driver. I think you should be able to get close to 35 MPG with the Cube depending on your routes and average speeds.
Keeping your debt load to a minimum is, in my opinion, better than buying something that you would have to finance more of the initital payment, pay more taxes on over time, and suffer more depreciation on over that same time frame. This thread is a perfect example of why many people decide against the hybrid option. Buying an older higher mileage Prius may not be such a great idea with prices driven up by higher gas prices recently and gas prices here have dropped considerably, close to 60cents a gallon in a few months. Considering the much larger engines in my Altima and the wifes Rogue as well as generally heavier vehicles, I think you can get close to 35 MPG if you drive it (the Cube) for mileage. Not any extreme efferot just good solid, speed limit or slightly less, coasting with engine on stealth hypermiling. 5K financed at 6% is $300 a year in your gas budget. Add a couple hundred for property taxes on the more expensive car and the $5000 gas savings rapidly disappears. When you sell your Cube at 90k miles, it will reatain much more of it's value than a Prius with say 175K miles. I think this thread demonstrates that people who make intelligent choices, WHILE MINIMIZING DEBT LOAD AND TAX LOAD, should never be criticized as making any sacrifice in fiscal responsibility just for the sake of mileage. If you want to use that logic we all should be riding CBR250Rs instead of anything with 4 wheels. Not meant to start any flame war, the OP just made a practical rational decision, which we should support and attempt to understand all the factors involved. I have no long term debt, haven't made a house payment or car payment in over a decade. The value of that financial comfort can never be underestimated and I wonder how many here share that same financial independence, especially in todays shaky economy. regards Mech |
The xD has the same engine as the Corolla - 1.8L 4 cylinder.
The title says 40+MPG -- that is a lot harder than 30-35MPG in a car with an automatic and a Cd >0.32 (like the xD). |
Kind of surpized no one offered Cobalt XFE as an option, got mine Saturday for $7000 with some free areo hail dents. The 90 mile drive home with 15 miles of city than cruising about 68 for 60 miles, then 55 the rest indicated 42.3 mpg, with the a/c running. Need to get it inspected and titled before I can drive it much more.
Kind of taught my 12 yo boy to drive the manual, my 19 yo girl picked it right up (motorycle experience helps IMO). So 1st tank mpg might be slightly under 40 if the gauge is anywhere close. |
Old Mechanic:
I agree completely! I was raised by my ELDER family members to NEVER carry large amounts of debt....then my 20's and Late 20th Early 21st Century Culture happened........ You know, the part where everyone thought that manufacturing was gone from the United States forever and that we just couldn't live like our predesessors.... relying on a good company with a pension......Etc, Etc, Etc.. (If that's what something costs, we'll just have to borrow to get one). Well, here we are. Back to square ONE. In fact, I was reading an article a while back about kids between Birth and 12 years old or so. It illustrated how young children are being raised during hard times and a depressed economy and how it could result in a "Depression Era" mentality when they grow up. Meaning that they might actually grow up with some concept of living within their means and being frugal?! The same article described the 16-30 year olds as the most liberal generation in terms of financing, instant gratification and low concept of financial responsibility! I for one have decided to work towards zero debt and completely free and clear assets. That includes "Cars" (which are rarely actual assets). So, yes...sticking to a budget and attempting to reduce potential maintenance was a HUGE factor in what we purchased. This vehicle (the cube) will likely be a "go between". I have no intention of keeping it for very long. once the VW is sold...it should be paid off very quickly... at which time it could be sold or traded as a "Free and Clear" vehicle. Whatever amount it's worth can be "transferred" into the next purchase (the budget for which will likely be higher than $14k)... with low interest rates, we would again finance the difference. Having said that, fuel economy will likely be a hot topic around my house for a long time.... even IF and WHEN gas goes back down to $2.99 a gallon. Just like the thermostat is set at 60 degrees May 1st, Water, Electricity and other utilities have been trimmed and we have continued the "not eating out much" trend that was necessary over the last 5 years.... Sure the economy is improving and for all intents and purposes everything is on it's way back to normal. My family learned it's lesson and has decided to modify our ways and resist "Living high on the hog" as things improve! Not surprisingly, in a short amount of time, this has resulted in more savings and more "rewards". |
I vote civic hybrid. I am a Honda technician and these cars have minimal provlems and can be had with 5 speed manual! Possibly 50+ mpg stock also.
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